What's a cookie cutter applicant?

[IMSingular]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Well. Most MDs turn out to be cookie cutter physicians. Most are burnouts by the time the become professional physicians.

 

[AllDaWEI]

Academic standards are increasing, too.The average gpa for med school matriculants raised from 3.6 to nearly a 3.7, and the mcat from a ~29 to a ~31. I'm just happy I'll be applying in this generation and not the next considering how much more difficult it's becoming to get any higher education. With how things are going now, 10 years from now you'll need a 3.8 gpa to be considered competitive.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with being a "cookie cutter pre-med." The schema exists because it works. But once you hit top tier med schools, it falls apart.

Agreed. The 2015 MCAT will not make things any easier either.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Academic standards are increasing, too.The average gpa for med school matriculants raised from 3.6 to nearly a 3.7, and the mcat from a ~29 to a ~31. I'm just happy I'll be applying in this generation and not the next considering how much more difficult it's becoming to get any higher education. With how things are going now, 10 years from now you'll need a 3.8 gpa to be considered competitive.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with being a "cookie cutter pre-med." The schema exists because it works. But once you hit top tier med schools, it falls apart.

It's cyclical. These last few years have been especially difficult with the ****ty economy driving people to seek out secure positions.

 

[osprey099]

Judging from these posts, it looks like I'll be a cookie cutter when I apply 🙁

 

[AllDaWEI]

Judging from these posts, it looks like I'll be a cookie cutter when I apply 🙁

Not just you. Everyone is a cookie cutter applicant. All pre-meds are required to take the same courses and MCAT. That is constant regardless of anything else. As for ECs, every applicant is required to do volunteering and research. Some get away without.research but volunteering is unwritten rule. As I said before, research can range from cleaning glassware to doing original experiments and writing publications. Volunteering can range from pre-meds who hate volunteering in the hospital and blow it off any chance they get to those who take a very active part and make a real difference.

A successful medical student can be at any end of spectrum or in-between. Then he can be sucessful physician. I have fellow students who blew off volunteering every chance they got and they are great students. I have fellow students who were active in many organizations and are great students. The ECs do not necessarily correlate to their success as physicians in the future. Think of your old family doctor, back then they may not have had any research and maybe volunteered just a few hours. They can be great physicians. A young physician who has a research publication and a thousand hours of volunteering will not be necessarily better.

As previous poster mentioned, pre-meds like to think of their activities as being unique, but they are not. You might think having a publication will not make you a cookie cutter. It does though. It is well known that a large numbers of pre-meds do research, so even a publication is not unique even if not too many pre-meds do them yet.

Many years ago the cookie cutter mold was a simple circle. Now the mold is much complex. Pre-meds keep pushing the bar higher. Now instead of cleaning glassware for a summer, research students will need to work many years and have publications. Instead of getting a reasonable amount of hours in a hospital and then calling it quits, pre-meds will need to.volunteer for hundreds or thousands of hours for multiple organizations. An alternative spring break will be more like mandatory spring break because every other pre-med will be doing it. Pre-meds will become slaves to the game, researching and volunteering throughout their breaks. Having personal freetime will become a crime, as some members treat not wanting to volunteer as a bad crime. Combine the 2015 MCAT and you will have pre-meds sacrificing everything to become doctor.

Phew! I am glad I am done with that. And to think that somehow successful physicians resulted from little or no research, and just a few hours volunteering! Unless you are a Civil.War reenactor, you are just fitting into a complex mold. It is not unique. If not common now, it will soon!

 

[MartletMD]

... a Civil.War reenactor...

You have probably just unleashed a bunch of pre-meds on the historical societies in their respective areas.

 

[osprey099]

Yea your post makes sense but cookie cutter to me means 3.6/32 blah blah blah (one of the first posts)

 

[kpcrew]

 

[Kadava Reviva]

What a bunch of cookie-cutter answers... All of you.

 

[AllDaWEI]

The medical school admissions game is like high school. One of the "cool" kids does something, and then everyone follows. I hate them for starting the trends that suck, and what will they come up with next?

I wonder if jumping off a bridge is the next "cool" thing to do for admissions. 🙄

 

[scarshapedstar]

The medical school admissions game is like high school. One of the "cool" kids does something, and then everyone follows. I hate them for starting the trends that suck, and what will they come up with next?

I wonder if jumping off a bridge is the next "cool" thing to do for admissions. 🙄

MSAR says 92% of bridge jumpers get in.

 

[V5RED]

It's cyclical. These last few years have been especially difficult with the ****ty economy driving people to seek out secure positions.

It doesn't look very cyclical. It actually looks like a linear increase.
Average matriculant MCAT/GPA
2000:29.7/3.60
2001:29.6/3.60
2002:29.6/3.61
2003:29.6/3.62
2004:29.9/3.62
2005:30.2/3.63
2006:30.3/3.64
2007:30.8/3.65
2008:30.9/3.66
2009:30.8/3.66
2010:31.1/3.67
2011.31.1/3.67
https://www.aamc.org/download/161690/data/table17.pdf

Don't count on standards going back down. They were rising when the economy was doing well, and the rise continued at the same rate(ie no special increase) when the economy tanked.

 

[Narmerguy]

It doesn't look very cyclical. It actually looks like a linear increase.
Average matriculant MCAT/GPA
2000:29.7/3.60
2001:29.6/3.60
2002:29.6/3.61
2003:29.6/3.62
2004:29.9/3.62
2005:30.2/3.63
2006:30.3/3.64
2007:30.8/3.65
2008:30.9/3.66
2009:30.8/3.66
2010:31.1/3.67
2011.31.1/3.67
https://www.aamc.org/download/161690/data/table17.pdf

Don't count on standards going back down. They were rising when the economy was doing well, and the rise continued at the same rate(ie no special increase) when the economy tanked.

Some people might argue that there's a delay since people have to take prereqs, etc, once they realize they want to switch/enter into medicine.

I personally think too much stock is put into the economy's effects on the application cycle. But I love it when people bring data (and sources) into a thread. Kudos! 👍

 

[AllDaWEI]

Some people might argue that there's a delay since people have to take prereqs, etc, once they realize they want to switch/enter into medicine.

I personally think too much stock is put into the economy's effects on the application cycle. But I love it when people bring data (and sources) into a thread. Kudos! 👍

I agree. If someone decides to go the non-traditional route, it's not an instantaneous process. It is also demanding. I had a friend who had to quit halfway through because his wife had a child. He ultimately settled for being underemployed. It at least takes couple years, and the hoops may be too much.

 

[GS Mikami]

Not just you. Everyone is a cookie cutter applicant. All pre-meds are required to take the same courses and MCAT. That is constant regardless of anything else. As for ECs, every applicant is required to do volunteering and research. Some get away without.research but volunteering is unwritten rule. As I said before, research can range from cleaning glassware to doing original experiments and writing publications. Volunteering can range from pre-meds who hate volunteering in the hospital and blow it off any chance they get to those who take a very active part and make a real difference.

A successful medical student can be at any end of spectrum or in-between. Then he can be sucessful physician. I have fellow students who blew off volunteering every chance they got and they are great students. I have fellow students who were active in many organizations and are great students. The ECs do not necessarily correlate to their success as physicians in the future. Think of your old family doctor, back then they may not have had any research and maybe volunteered just a few hours. They can be great physicians. A young physician who has a research publication and a thousand hours of volunteering will not be necessarily better.

As previous poster mentioned, pre-meds like to think of their activities as being unique, but they are not. You might think having a publication will not make you a cookie cutter. It does though. It is well known that a large numbers of pre-meds do research, so even a publication is not unique even if not too many pre-meds do them yet.

Many years ago the cookie cutter mold was a simple circle. Now the mold is much complex. Pre-meds keep pushing the bar higher. Now instead of cleaning glassware for a summer, research students will need to work many years and have publications. Instead of getting a reasonable amount of hours in a hospital and then calling it quits, pre-meds will need to.volunteer for hundreds or thousands of hours for multiple organizations. An alternative spring break will be more like mandatory spring break because every other pre-med will be doing it. Pre-meds will become slaves to the game, researching and volunteering throughout their breaks. Having personal freetime will become a crime, as some members treat not wanting to volunteer as a bad crime. Combine the 2015 MCAT and you will have pre-meds sacrificing everything to become doctor.

Phew! I am glad I am done with that. And to think that somehow successful physicians resulted from little or no research, and just a few hours volunteering! Unless you are a Civil.War reenactor, you are just fitting into a complex mold. It is not unique. If not common now, it will soon!

Thats what cookie cutter applicants always say

 

[varsityblue]

Thats what cookie cutter applicants always say

Hahahahahha +1

 

[zeppelinpage4]

Pshhh it's easy to be unique in medical school admissions.

sGPA=2.0
MCAT= 9J, 3VR,3PS,3BS

-No EC's...except clubbing of course, I'd list that, no research, no volunteering

I'd totally break the mold with those stats...maybe even draw the attention of some top 20 schools.

 

[nadaba]

I like the alligator.

 

[ADolefulDream]

I like the alligator.

I actually took a min to find the alligator 😳

 

[akszp4]

I like the alligator.

👍 Every cookie is unique- dependent on how it's packaged.

 

[kpcrew]

I actually took a min to find the alligator 😳

haha
at first i thought you guys were joking because i couldn't see it. then i found it.

 

[AllDaWEI]

Pshhh it's easy to be unique in medical school admissions.

sGPA=2.0
MCAT= 9J, 3VR,3PS,3BS

-No EC's...except clubbing of course, I'd list that, no research, no volunteering

I'd totally break the mold with those stats...maybe even draw the attention of some top 20 schools.

Hahahahahahahaha!!!! That cracked me up!!!!

 

[jokerman55]

In a way most people will be cookie cutters IMO with some small things that make them unique. Don't worry too much about it hurting your chances.

 

[schwabejr]

Can we argue that everyone is a cookie cutter applicant? . But when it comes to ECs, aren't all pre-meds doing the same things? For instance, the typical pre-mes may have under 100 hours of volunteering, but a so-called non-cookie cutter can have hundreds or thousands of hours. It becomes a race to have the most hours or different number of same activities. The same applies to other things like research or so-called leadership roles. Everyone doez same things, but the non-cookie cutters pile more of the same. Some activities used to look cool. Now I see pre-meds asking if volunteering overseas would look good, and the response is that it doesn't. It used to look good but now everyone does it! Pre-meds ruin plenty of things that used to ve unique, but now are expected. Very sad. It becomes a game of deception whether one admits it or not. I am grateful I am in school, and do not need to play this game anymore.

I would disagree. Escaping the cookie cutter rut isnt about racking up thousands of hours in the same activities. It comes down to finding EC's you really care about and presenting them in a way that shows you care. 100 hours shadowing can me so much more than 1000 if the 100 hour applicant can (successfully) talk about the impact it had on their career choice and what they learned. You could have started shadowing 20 hours a week at age six but it'd be worthless if you can't articulate what it meant to you.
The bottom line here is that, yes, there are a number of things that every applicant should have. 1. Solid GPA to show that the applicant is capable of strong work in the classroom 2. Solid MCAT to show some critical thinking skills and to add validity to the strong GPA. 3. Clinical Shadowing to gain knowledge of the medical field (having some idea of what you're getting in to). 4. Some volunteer type work that suggests altruism.
The first two indicate a potential for success during the first two years and the last two indicate, at the very least, some understanding of what a doctor does.

Ultimately, breaking the "cookie cutter mold" is about finding something OUTSIDE of the unwritten pre-med requirements that your really enjoy doing and chasing it. It can often teach you more about your desire to study medicine than shadowing or volunteering does.

 

[911 Turbo]

Can you be cookie cutter if you do "cookie cutter things" like

Volunteering
Research
Shadowing
Above average MCAT
Good GPA
Above Average Lors



but have 4 years of research and 2 pubs in good journals?

Are you still "cookie cutter" if you excel in one of these traditional "cookie cutter" areas? What do I need to do to be considered non cookie cutter? Take a summer learning the secret art of Peruvian glass blowing?... I don't understand how on top of everything else I can take out the time and do something creative with my time. As it is, I'm barely making ends meet with my grades and research.

 

[KnuxNole]

MOST people are cookie cutter

Maybe 10% are gonna be the "exception" people. Tons and tons of people don't do stuff outside of the cookie cutter stuff, which is how they got that name.

 

[911 Turbo]

MOST people are cookie cutter

Maybe 10% are gonna be the "exception" people. Tons and tons of people don't do stuff outside of the cookie cutter stuff, which is how they got that name.

Do they have a chance at top 20s tho?

 

[iforget2]

Biology major

Not gonna argue with you on that one 🙁

 

[Moosepig]

As NickNaylor pointed out in another thread on cookie cutting, part of the reason this board attaches such a stigma to cookie cutter activities is that there is a large focus on upper tier schools on this board. If you are applying to the top, then yes you are going to need something distinguishable. However if you're just hoping to get into In-State SOM you're competing against Joe 45 hours-volunteering not Joe African-Orphanage-Builder. So while it can't hurt to distinguish yourself, being a super special snowflake is not as important as a lot of people here will make it seem.

 

[KnuxNole]

Do they have a chance at top 20s tho?

Moosepig explained it well.
The answer is "maybe", but the chance is higher if you go above and beyond. However, getting into any medical school isn't that easy, and being a "cookie cutter" isn't a kiss of death.

 

[ceasefire]

In addition to the great examples above:

If a male, wears a dark blue suit and matching tie to the interview.
Wanted to be a doctor "ever since they can remember".
Want to volunteer for humanitarian foreign missions (or at least, claim to)after they pay all their loans.
Are members of the pre-med club (a useless endeavour, especially in the era of the internet).
Have allergies.
Recently discovered their love for golf.
Mommy / Daddy is a professional, an engineer or a teacher.
Listens to "easy listening" or classical music while studying.
Have had a steady boyfriend/girlfriend for over a year at some point.
Hate mean people.
Claim not to be prejudiced against any group.
Want to solve all of society's problems, heal addicts and the homeless and turn them into hard working, productive members of society.
Are against hunting.

Based on what I've seen at interviews, almost all guys are wearing black. Black is now cookie cutter. Go with gray like me!

 

[skiing]

To some extent, we are all "cookie cutters" in that we all take the requisite classes, take the MCAT, and hopefully have research and clinical experience.

However, within that, I do believe there is room for individuality. Since many people will be similar to you no matter what you think is unique, I think individuality in the application process is better thought of as having a 'message.'

Uniqueness, to me, is someone who has a consistent and clear record of having a specialized interest in healthcare, or an unusual life story, or some sort of defining message/edge, or a depth of character, mission, or experience.

For example, a friend of mine who is now a resident was an econ major at a HYPSM school, interend for several international governments, worked for a top consulting firm, was editor-in-chief for a public health review at her school, did HIV research, and led many organizations in HIV prevention and public health causes at her school. She had a clear interest which she learned a lot about, specialized in, and became a leader in. More importantly, she had a passion, mission, message, and story. She had the skills and knowledge to back up her passion. The individual things she did weren't that hard to do, but they added up to a compelling message . If I were an adcom, I'd admit her over a 'generic' premed with the same number of unrelated activities.

Another friend of mine wrote about being born in a poor country in SE Asia and wanting to move to and give back to his poor country after he became a doctor. He wrote about his mother's poverty and sacrifices. He talked a lot in his interviews about his missions experiences, his experiences as a chaplain, etc. This guy not only had the basic 'cookie cutter' stuff, but also a heart, message, and story. (And contrary to what everyone on SDN thinks, talking about religion is not always taboo. One of his letter writers was a religious leader and his letterhead indicated a denominational affiliation. My friend's interviewer at a top 5 school was like, so you're (denomination here?) I am too! cool! and they spent a lot of time talking about god and service in the interview. He was admitted.).

I'm not saying we should all be born in poverty and move to SE asia when we're done with med school, but my friend had consistent experiences that amounted to a mission, message, story. He wasn't going to med school just to become a doctor. His heart was evident, and his experiences demonstrated his purpose. I think this type of person is much more compelling than someone who just checks off the boxes and shows up on interview day thinking they're there to just jump thru the next professional hoop.

All of this was genuine, not manufactured - and it came out in their interviews. Both of these people ultimately went to top med 5 schools.

True depth, and self-awareness and maturity can be surprisingly uncommon in our academic premed world. This is why few premeds are unique. This is also why schools like Duke go crazy about asking introspective questions about your values and failures.

Aside from depth of character and being really thoughtful in your mission and experiences, I also think uniqueness could also come from just being really smart. Eg. the MD/PhD candidate who has 2 pubs in Nature and graduated magna/summa. That person may or may not have the above depth of mission, but they have the depth of experience and outstanding enough academic contributions that they may be admitted for that alone.

As a peer mentor, I used to tell my mentees to not just check off the boxes, but to figure out WHAT about health care they wer emost interested in, and to really explore and invest in that interest. When you really care about something, you spend more time in it, and you get excellent at it, then you are special and have uniqueness, knowledge, skills, interests, and a message nobody else has. It sounds a little paternalistic, but I always asked them why do you really want to do medicine? What excites you?

So I think uniqueness comes from having some sort of oustanding attribute - some sort of depth - in ec commitments, mission, life history, ability, etc.