What's a fair salary for me? New contract soon.

[BobBarker]

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I agree with all this. 60% collections is like having all the upside of owning a practice, an efficiently run one at that, and not having to actually be the practice owner. We have also changed our model to midlevels vs hiring a doc to keep up with demand. Now facing the issue of too many injections to do and midlevels can't help there.

We are ready and willing to help by doing all of your Medicare RFAs. Inbox me.



😂

 

[DoYouEvenLiftBro]

People want partnership to get that additional percentage between 40 and 60%. There isn’t enough to matter past 60%. If you are non partnership tract, 60% gross collections that is probably the best possible scenario. You have the owner pay your LLC which you set up as an s-corp and then set up your own retirement, benefits, spouse/kids comp, write off all of the screens, the Range Rover etc with no buy in.

I’m joining a solo doc, salary sweat equity for a year and then partnership 50/50 split after overhead and reserves
We are going to do the PLLC s corp distributions as you mention

Do you have any tips or guidance on this ?

 

[BobBarker]

That sounds like a true partnership where every profitable dollar no matter who generates it gets split 50/50, is that correct?

 

[DoYouEvenLiftBro]

That sounds like a true partnership where every profitable dollar no matter who generates it gets split 50/50, is that correct?

Yeah. True 50/50 split after bills and reserves.

 

[BobBarker]

That is pretty simple if you both practice in the same fashion. You would each get a salary. If your partner is more productive seeing as he has a more mature practice, pay him a higher salary to even up. You would distribute out the business profit 50/50 using a k1.

 

[DoYouEvenLiftBro]

makes sense, I was curious about potential beneficial write offs and other tax benefits you have insights to doing s corp distributions to pllc?

 

[IAmTheOne1]

I’m joining a solo doc, salary sweat equity for a year and then partnership 50/50 split after overhead and reserves
We are going to do the PLLC s corp distributions as you mention

Do you have any tips or guidance on this ?

I'm assuming this is an office-based practice (No ASC involved?) If so, why complicate things by becoming a partner. As discussed earlier, there's really no benefit to owning shares of the practice. A simpler way to do this is just have a ledger of your total monthly collections (billing company can provide this easily) and then just divide expenses by half and subtract that from your monthly collections = your pay.

 

[DoYouEvenLiftBro]

I'm assuming this is an office-based practice (No ASC involved?) If so, why complicate things by becoming a partner. As discussed earlier, there's really no benefit to owning shares of the practice. A simpler way to do this is just have a ledger of your total monthly collections (billing company can provide this easily) and then just divide expenses by half and subtract that from your monthly collections = your pay.

Plan would be to sell in 10-15 years to PE so imo that is a benefit of partner and since change from W2 to s corp / LLC tax havens also benefit (can also start employing the kids for Roth benefit)

ASC, granted 2 rooms, cranks 12-16 cases / day with a first assist provided by the asc to close

historically people fight for the good payers and don’t do the less paying procedures. I see an issue if one guy just sits back or takes a ton of vacation but the partner does 45-60 fluoro injections / day and 50+ clinic. Has the support with scribes multiple MAs etc to facilitate this, owns the building so no substantial rent.

My original question is what are some of the tax benefits or write offs you all are doing with s corp paying in distributions to pllc

 

[IAmTheOne1]

Plan would be to sell in 10-15 years to PE so imo that is a benefit of partner and since change from W2 to s corp / LLC tax havens also benefit (can also start employing the kids for Roth benefit)

ASC, granted 2 rooms, cranks 12-16 cases / day with a first assist provided by the asc to close

historically people fight for the good payers and don’t do the less paying procedures. I see an issue if one guy just sits back or takes a ton of vacation but the partner does 45-60 fluoro injections / day and 50+ clinic. Has the support with scribes multiple MAs etc to facilitate this, owns the building so no substantial rent.

My original question is what are some of the tax benefits or write offs you all are doing with s corp paying in distributions to pllc

- If this is an office based practice, as far as I've seen, I don't think PE is going to be very interested or offer very much if anything unless you are staying on after selling to them, in which case they will drastically cut your pay to get their money back. Without YOU, the practice generates exactly $0. You are the product/service, the business doesn't make anything at all without you (and the other doc).

- Again I see the problem of eventually one person is doing more than the other, it's almost impossible to ensure both partners are putting in equal work. So if profits are being divided 50:50, someone is going to eventually feel screwed. As I mentioned earlier, a much more equitable strategy would have been to stay non-partner, and receive the entirety of your incoming accounts receivable minus 50:50 overhead (or any amount of overhead that you two agree to). Now that you own 50:50 shares, both of you are legally entitled to 50% of the profits, but usually one partner is doing a meaningful amount more of the work generating said profits.

- Be careful about "owns the building so no substantial rent." I'm assuming you mean your partner owns the building/property? He is definitely paying rent, probably to another LLC which he owns, which is a holding company for the property. You should find out what the rent is, and if there is a clause in the lease agreement that prevents the owner (him) from substantially jacking up the rent. I have seen this happen in the very situation you are in.

- As to your question regarding tax benefits / write-offs with an S-corp, you did not need to become a partner at all to reap the tax benefits. In fact, I would say at least to some extent your tax benefits just went substantially down. You could've still had an S-corp without being a partner/owner of the practice, and just paid yourself as the lone employee of your own S-corp. The advantage of that would have been substantially juiced up solo-401k contribution (almost 70k per year and goes up every year). Now that you are an owner of a company with employees, you will need to offer the same 401k benefits to the employees and you will not be able to save nearly as much due to non-discrimination IRS rules. You can argue that it's fair and equitable to make sure the employees are taken care of, but had you not become a part-owner, that responsibility would've fallen on your now-partner original owner, and you would've been able to rapidly contribute to your own solo-401k individually.

- As far as other tax savings/strategies, again these are all going to be the same as any sole proprietor, 1099 independent contractor or solo S-corp which you could've had. Write off phone, internet, home-office if justifiable, and any expenses at all related to your work. Vehicle is another popular write-off. Can still do 401k but it just got substantially more complicated (probably need to pay a company to manage this for you, whereas with solo-401k you can do it yourself and open the account within like 1-2 days).

 

[gdub25]

I agree with IAmTheOne1 on every point made above and couldn't have said it any better with the exception of one thing. Having ownership in a practice doesn't subject you to the same distribution of profit laws that owning an ASC or other ancillary services. This means you do not have to distribute profits according to ownership percentage and could own 50% of a practice but still distribute profits on an eat what you kill basis. It all has to do with the fact you do not generate income from referrals to your own practice like you would with referrals to ancillary businesses and also spends on how the practice entity is structured from a tax standpoint. Here is a brief article that touches on it.

https://assets.bmctoday.net/practicaldermatology/pdfs/1207%20business%20advisor.pdf

 

[RoloTomassi]

A big issue that hasn't been touched on is voting rights. Equal partnership in a 2 person practice should result in equal decision making power. But what happens in a split vote? Say your partner wanted to increase rent above FMV. What if you said no?

 

[BobBarker]

Agree. I think the best path forward is the business within the business that way you can create your own benefits. My business has only two employees. The rest of the staff are leased and have their benefits from the company they work for. You can also do some consulting or education work to get money from outside the primary clinic to flow through your business if that makes you feel more comfortable.

I pay the other doctor in my clinics LLC and I am sure he has some other stuff through it but that isn’t my business (literally/figuratively).

 

[jsaul]

Plan would be to sell in 10-15 years to PE so imo that is a benefit of partner and since change from W2 to s corp / LLC tax havens also benefit (can also start employing the kids for Roth benefit)

ASC, granted 2 rooms, cranks 12-16 cases / day with a first assist provided by the asc to close

historically people fight for the good payers and don’t do the less paying procedures. I see an issue if one guy just sits back or takes a ton of vacation but the partner does 45-60 fluoro injections / day and 50+ clinic. Has the support with scribes multiple MAs etc to facilitate this, owns the building so no substantial rent.

My original question is what are some of the tax benefits or write offs you all are doing with s corp paying in distributions to pllc

I think all you folks need to stop counting on some big magical PE offer that you think is supposedly coming in the future

 

[Status Sciaticus]

I'm assuming this is an office-based practice (No ASC involved?) If so, why complicate things by becoming a partner. As discussed earlier, there's really no benefit to owning shares of the practice. A simpler way to do this is just have a ledger of your total monthly collections (billing company can provide this easily) and then just divide expenses by half and subtract that from your monthly collections = your pay.

But in the event of a buy-out, OP wouldnt be eligible for that buy-out check if he isnt a partner in the practice.

Agree. I think the best path forward is the business within the business that way you can create your own benefits. My business has only two employees. The rest of the staff are leased and have their benefits from the company they work for. You can also do some consulting or education work to get money from outside the primary clinic to flow through your business if that makes you feel more comfortable.

I pay the other doctor in my clinics LLC and I am sure he has some other stuff through it but that isn’t my business (literally/figuratively).

So does your practice LLC contract out to your staffing LLC to hire you?

 

[BobBarker]

No. The staffing LLC is a third party. PayCom is a national company that does this. We use a smaller company.

I am a direct employee of the practice.
The other doctor’s LLC is contracted with the practice and that LLC is paid for his services.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

No. The staffing LLC is a third party. PayCom is a national company that does this. We use a smaller company.

I am a direct employee of the practice.
The other doctor’s LLC is contracted with the practice and that LLC is paid for his services.

so all your MA's and other staff are staffed by Paycom and your practice only employs you? Feel free to PM me if this is derailing the thread.

 

[BobBarker]

Yes, that is basically the nitty gritty and my wife is also employed by the practice.

 

[Dr. Ice]

I think all you folks need to stop counting on some big magical PE offer that you think is supposedly coming in the future

I agree, but if it is coming soon, you sure as **** better try to get a piece of it

 

[drusso]

I think all you folks need to stop counting on some big magical PE offer that you think is supposedly coming in the future

"They will never love you back."

 

[PMROralBoards]

Can anyone give feedback on this package for a suburban area in the west (non-California) hospital employed position? 4 day (10hr) work week, 445k salary, $66/wrvu after 6500, 7 weeks vacation, no opioid management, clinic + procedures in office or ASC that has physician ownership and you can apparently buy into?

 

[gaspasser127]

Can anyone give feedback on this package for a suburban area in the west (non-California) hospital employed position? 4 day (10hr) work week, 445k salary, $66/wrvu after 6500, 7 weeks vacation, no opioid management, clinic + procedures in office or ASC that has physician ownership and you can apparently buy into?

Not bad

Biggest question is what is the efficiency of the clinic/procedure space?

What does buy-in into ASC look like? Is it multi speciality? Is there a period you have to wait before you can buy in?

 

[so55b]

Can anyone give feedback on this package for a suburban area in the west (non-California) hospital employed position? 4 day (10hr) work week, 445k salary, $66/wrvu after 6500, 7 weeks vacation, no opioid management, clinic + procedures in office or ASC that has physician ownership and you can apparently buy into?

Not bad

Biggest question is what is the efficiency of the clinic/procedure space?

What does buy-in into ASC look like? Is it multi speciality? Is there a period you have to wait before you can buy in?

This. Depends on how many wRVUs they generate a year. If 10000 wRVU which is 677k. 15000 wRVU = 1M. Is it 1099 or W2 with benefits like 401k and insurances?

 

[PMROralBoards]

This. Depends on how many wRVUs they generate a year. If 10000 wRVU which is 677k. 15000 wRVU = 1M. Is it 1099 or W2 with benefits like 401k and insurances?

It’s a w2 with normal benefits