What's med school like?

[zoner]

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I know you have to work hard in med school, but I just wanted to get a sense of what it compares to.

Is it anything like say taking Org Chem II, Physics II, and Cal II, working 20 hours a week and volunteering 4 hours a week?

Is it more work, less work or about the same?

 

[notbobtrustme]

I double majored in Biology and Chemistry and medical school is easily 3 times the work of that.

What you should know is that medical school isn't hard. There's just a lot of material in every subject.

 

[ED50]

The best description I can compare it to is around 20 hours a week of organic chemistry level difficulty things plus around 12 hours of fluff courses that don't take much time. Comparing it to work and volunteering is not accurate since med school courses force you to be actively engaged whereas those activities do not.

 

[Leonid Rogozov]

The best description I can compare it to is around 20 hours a week of organic chemistry level difficulty things plus around

That's pretty subjective. I don't find O-chem to be that difficult.

 

[munchymanRX]

I know you have to work hard in med school, but I just wanted to get a sense of what it compares to.

Is it anything like say taking Org Chem II, Physics II, and Cal II, working 20 hours a week and volunteering 4 hours a week?

Is it more work, less work or about the same?

A lot more work. None of it is conceptually difficult however. If you're like most people, you will need to spend more time studying regularly (notice how I didn't say every day) than you have at any other time in your life.

 

[ED50]

That's pretty subjective. I don't find O-chem to be that difficult.

How hard med school is is subjective. Most of my classmates didn't find O-chem difficult either. I was just trying to give the poster an idea of time commitment. Ochem/biochem etc x 5 + silly undergrad class x 3 works out roughly to the time spent during M1 and M2

 

[nardini46]

2nd yr is insane. Way harder than 1st year.

 

[SLC]

2nd yr is insane. Way harder than 1st year.

Really? I'm not finding that at all!

 

[zoner]

I guess it really is all subjective. I just want to make it clear, I was taking all those courses plus running my business for about 20hrs/week, so yes, I was actively involved in my work.

 

[Eilat87]

Depends what you want. Honors? High grades? That makes it hard.

But if you're just looking to get by.

It's not so bad at all honestly.

 

[Leonid Rogozov]

How hard med school is is subjective. Most of my classmates didn't find O-chem difficult either. I was just trying to give the poster an idea of time commitment. Ochem/biochem etc x 5 + silly undergrad class x 3 works out roughly to the time spent during M1 and M2

Gotcha.

 

[nardini46]

Our school makes us read big Robbins for pathology. Its overkill IMHO. We also have to attend lecture otherwise we lose daily attendance points.

 

[Textbookversion]

Really? I'm not finding that at all!

Your school has a weird set-up and you know it. My take-away was that your first year is 13 months long with PA style curriculum all integrated, and then 2nd year you do mickey-mouse mini-rotations and board practice in your free time. The end result being a mediocre knowledge-base and abysmal board scores on the USMLE.

For people on traditional curriculum the consensus seems to be 2nd yr >> 1st yr.

 

[Slowpoke]

Our school makes us read big Robbins for pathology. Its overkill IMHO. We also have to attend lecture otherwise we lose daily attendance points.

I am surprised you get credit for attendance though. Does it come to around 5% of your final grade for the course, or is it more?

 

[Dr Yiot]

med school is much harder. i have taken 18 credits of science courses in a semester of undergrad and its nothing like that. i agree with what the other person stated in that the material isnt necesarily more difficult as not much of it is conceptual, but there is SO much more of it.

i dunno if i agree with what people say in it depends on what grade you want to get. cause there have been courses where i know i honestly could not have studied more and worked my butt off and only managed a B. so i dont think that your grade is correlated that closely to how much work you put in. i know people who study 2-3 hours a night and 5 hours a day on the weekends and pull A's. I unfortunately cannot do that.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Our school makes us read big Robbins for pathology. Its overkill IMHO. We also have to attend lecture otherwise we lose daily attendance points.

ew..... 🙁

Robbins is pretty good. I am digging pathoma to get a really quick reference for what is going on. They seem to cover most of what we do in lecture.

 

[Daedra22]

A lot of it depends on your background. I did most of my undergrad in small classrooms with great instructors where essays were frequently a large part of a grade (even in many of my science courses). The first two years of med school were all about hardcore memorization, which is something I had never done at that level before. I found it shocking to go from getting good grades with very little studying to struggling to pass with lots of studying. It got easier as I got more efficient - while 2nd year was "harder" in terms of amount of material, I found it easier because I had finally figured out how to study. First year was quite hellish in comparison. If I had been more prepared in first year, the whole process would have been a lot less painful.

I find third year pretty great, though. Totally different ballgame.

 

[ShyRem]

Moving to pre-med forum.

Just as an FYI, many med students do frequent the pre-med forum to give advice. The med student forum is for current med students and their concerns.

 

[ShyRem]

And for my contribution, let me say this:

I did a double major in chem and math in three years. I took 21 credits a semester.. EVERY semester. Medical school first two years made that look like kindergarten. I had time for my family, but I studied a LOT more than in undergrad.

Board prep is a full time job in itself. Literally.

Years 3 and 4 are more time intensive, three more so than four.

Residency makes med school look like a vacation.

 

[MedPR]

I know you have to work hard in med school, but I just wanted to get a sense of what it compares to.

Is it anything like say taking Org Chem II, Physics II, and Cal II, working 20 hours a week and volunteering 4 hours a week?

Is it more work, less work or about the same?

In my experience (my girlfriend is a current M3 and we've been together since undergrad) M1 is like taking all your pre-reqs at once while working/shadowing/volunteering/researching for 60 hours per week. My girlfriend is kind of a gunner though, so take that into account. M2 is a little more relaxed until about March/April when board prep started to get pretty serious. M3 so far has varied by the clerkship, but basically 8-12 hours per day on the ward (less if you are on outpatient) and then a few hours each week preparing presentations (if your attending/resident makes you do any) and studying for the shelf.

Edit: As a reference, I worked 40 hours per week, took 8 credits, studied for the MCAT, and volunteered 5 hours per week last spring and my girlfriend (M2 at the time) was busier than me.

 

[cliquesh]

I have always been a crammer. In college, I'd cram 3 days before a test. In medical school I'd start cramming 10 days before the test. We usually had 3 to 4 weeks between exams in medical school. I did well and I never felt too stressed out. If you don't really care about your grades you can totally coast through medical school. I wouldn't recommend it, but you can. It's not as bad as some people say.

 

[MedPR]

I have always been a crammer. In college, I'd cram 3 days before a test. In medical school I'd start cramming 10 days before the test. We usually had 3 to 4 weeks between exams in medical school. I did well and I never felt too stressed out. If you don't really care about your grades you can totally coast through medical school. I wouldn't recommend it, but you can. It's not as bad as some people say.

Have you taken step 1 yet?

 

[SLC]

Your school has a weird set-up and you know it. My take-away was that your first year is 13 months long with PA style curriculum all integrated...

Nothing you stated is true, our first and second year are blended, so we're getting basic and clinical sciences taught together rather than separately. Maybe that's the difference, my first year and second year are similar in difficulty, where perhaps I'd have seen 1st year as less difficult at a traditional school?

...and then 2nd year you do mickey-mouse mini-rotations

Nope we do 4 hours of required "clinical time". It's not a rotation, nor is it advertised as such.

...and board practice in your free time.

When else do people study for boards?

The end result being a mediocre knowledge-base and abysmal board scores on the USMLE.

On the contrary, our students are generally known for having above average clinical knowledge base, and we are doing quite well on the boards. I'm really not sure where you got that information, though I have my suspicions.

For people on traditional curriculum the consensus seems to be 2nd yr >> 1st yr.

Maybe that's the advantage of my school's curriculum, it removes what I'd consider to be the most difficult part about the transition between MS1 and MS2, integration of the material.

Either way, 2nd year is no more difficult than first year was it's identical, just dealing with different organ systems. And first year was far less difficult that I imagined it would be. YMMV of course.

 

[cliquesh]

Have you taken step 1 yet?

Yep, I'm a 4th year. 250's on usmle step 1, low 600's on comlex level 1, low 700's on comlex 2.

 

[411309]

I love SDN, even when you get to med school you still have people still trying to say "my schools better than your school".

 

[SpecterGT260]

🙄 .

Hypersensitivity 👍

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[SpecterGT260]

Nothing you stated is true, our first and second year are blended, so we're getting basic and clinical sciences taught together rather than separately. Maybe that's the difference, my first year and second year are similar in difficulty, where perhaps I'd have seen 1st year as less difficult at a traditional school?



Nope we do 4 hours of required "clinical time". It's not a rotation, nor is it advertised as such.



When else do people study for boards?



On the contrary, our students are generally known for having above average clinical knowledge base, and we are doing quite well on the boards. I'm really not sure where you got that information, though I have my suspicions.





Maybe that's the advantage of my school's curriculum, it removes what I'd consider to be the most difficult part about the transition between MS1 and MS2, integration of the material.

Either way, 2nd year is no more difficult than first year was it's identical, just dealing with different organ systems. And first year was far less difficult that I imagined it would be. YMMV of course.

What school is this? It sounds similar to how many are going. Id say the biggest disadvantage of classic med ed is the lack of integration. That said it may also be the biggest blessing because things come back again on a more regular basis than they would in a systems or organs based approach

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[Postictal Raiden]

Yep, I'm a 4th year. 250's on usmle step 1, low 600's on comlex level 1, low 700's on comlex 2.

Wow. You got those scores with cramming? Good job. How well did you do in your undergrad and on your mcat, if you don't mind?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Wow. You got those scores with cramming? Good job. How well did you do in your undergrad and on your mcat, if you don't mind?

Most people really start cramming hard about 6 weeks out. Most schools don't give you the whole semester and when classes are in session you have to split your time. So... define "cramming".


Cramming 4 days before a test is different than 4 days before step1
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[cliquesh]

Wow. You got those scores with cramming? Good job. How well did you do in your undergrad and on your mcat, if you don't mind?

3.9 gpa and a 30 or 31 (I forget). I only applied to osteopathic medical schools because DOs were the only type of physicians I was exposed to as a premed.

I did study a lot for step 1, by the way. I did like 10,000 practice questions, or something ridiculous, over 5 weeks.

For level 2, I only hardcore studied for a week or 2. During my 3rd year I'd do question banks throughout the year. When I was on ob/gyn I'd do all of the ob/gyn questions and when I was on surgery I'd do all of the surgery questions and so on. I think that strategy would work really well for step 1 if your school has a systems based curriculum.

 

[411309]

🙄 .

Hypersensitivity 👍

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hey hunny, how was your day?

 

[SpecterGT260]

hey hunny, how was your day?

Oh you know. Same ol' same ol'. Dealt with sensitive and idealistic pre meds who routinely pick fights on the internet over nonsense and take any cautionary advice as a direct blow to the ego. You gunna have dinner ready for me when I get home? I dont care at all that bronco bama got re elected. We-ins got traditional values 👍

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[SpecterGT260]

Per norm, your wit is staggering. Boom. Right in the traditional values

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[toxicwombat]

Your school has a weird set-up and you know it. My take-away was that your first year is 13 months long with PA style curriculum all integrated, and then 2nd year you do mickey-mouse mini-rotations and board practice in your free time. The end result being a mediocre knowledge-base and abysmal board scores on the USMLE.

Uh-huh. Tell that to the intern doing his EM residency at Harbor...

Seriously though, this is the most ridiculous post I've read in months.

 

[Textbookversion]

What school is this? It sounds similar to how many are going. Id say the biggest disadvantage of classic med ed is the lack of integration. That said it may also be the biggest blessing because things come back again on a more regular basis than they would in a systems or organs based approach

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That person goes to ATSU-SOMA (DO school in AZ). I'm just relating what I had heard. Second year they move out to small community health centers. No more main med school campus.

First year curriculum sounded pretty much identical to PA curriculum (no dissecting cadavers, big focus on clinical skills and a lot less basic science) and the second year they have broadcast lectures but cover less material.

IDK I've heard some dissatisfaction with the experience from folks that have gone there.

The USMLE step 1 score average I heard quoted was not high... although I hesitate to list it because I'm pretty sure that was just ball-parking based on anecdotes because the school is too scared to ask/release the data.

Also regardless of how good/bad your school is you will have outstanding people who succeed in spite of it. Although quoting one person matching in EM at a good program is a pretty funny way to defend your school.

Anyways the point is ATSU-SOMA is weird so it's not really the same as other programs.

 

[DrWily]

Med school is everything everyone has ever said and it sucks bad. I knew 100% this is what I wanted to do going into 1st quarter MS1, and even I have doubts about whether I can live with this for the next howevermanyyears.

However, I just think of it as a big game and I play to win.

 

[zoner]

Med school is everything everyone has ever said and it sucks bad. I knew 100% this is what I wanted to do going into 1st quarter MS1, and even I have doubts about whether I can live with this for the next howevermanyyears.

However, I just think of it as a big game and I play to win.

Dr wily welcome back. I haven't seen you on here forever. Whats going on?

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[SpecterGT260]

Our schools PA program takes most basic sciences and have their own cadaver lab in the summer

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[SLC]

That person goes to ATSU-SOMA (DO school in AZ). I'm just relating what I had heard. Second year they move out to small community health centers. No more main med school campus.

you should be careful about spreading around what you "heard", especially without first qualifying it as such. In this case, as in most cases, you heard wrong.

First year curriculum sounded pretty much identical to PA curriculum (no dissecting cadavers, big focus on clinical skills and a lot less basic science) and the second year they have broadcast lectures but cover less material.

Again you're mistaken. I bolded your use of the word "sounded" for emphasis. Now I've never been through a PA curriculum, but I don't think they have anything near as rigorous as we do, it's 8-5 most days, and we have an equal sharing of basic science and clinical science simultaneously. What you don't seem to grasp is that we integrate them, do you know how that integration looks? If you do, I'll give you a chance to explain it, if not I'd be glad to inform you. I guarantee it's not what you're thinking.

IDK I've heard some dissatisfaction with the experience from folks that have gone there.

Hold the phone! You've heard some dissatisfaction from med students about their schooling? That may be the first time that's ever happened! It's not like med-students are known for being whiny or anything right? I've got gripes of my own, but overall I'm extremely pleased with my experience so far. The quality of education is really becoming apparent during my clinical experience this year (you know, the stuff we all train for) and even board study is showing me that I've been taught quite well.

Show me a school (DO or MD) where you're not going to hear any dissatisfaction from students who go there.


The USMLE step 1 score average I heard quoted was not high... although I hesitate to list it because I'm pretty sure that was just ball-parking based on anecdotes because the school is too scared to ask/release the data.

I don't know what the average was either, just that we have a competitive pass rate, and that our students have matched well so far. You have to realize that we've only had two classes match so far, and we've only had 4 classes take the Boards too. I'm in the first class to matriculate with the school fully accredited. I'll leave it up to you to draw your own conclusions about the USMLE from that data.

Also regardless of how good/bad your school is you will have outstanding people who succeed in spite of it. Although quoting one person matching in EM at a good program is a pretty funny way to defend your school.

Is it? I agree that high level matches aren't necessarily a good indication of the quality of one school compared to another, but if we were a glorified PA school do you think we'd have the matches we've had in both classes so far? I don't.

Harbor UCLA, Mayo, etc. etc. etc. These places don't take DO's who've been in adequately prepared. If the PD's thought any of what you've been saying was true those matches wouldn't have occurred.

Anyways the point is ATSU-SOMA is weird so it's not really the same as other programs.

Some call it weird, others call it cutting edge and innovative. I'm in the latter group.

My responses in red!

 

[488677]

My responses in red!

You should know that everything written on SDN is fact.

 

[SLC]

You should know that everything written on SDN is fact.

I guess so, right?

 

[Machine33]

When was the last time any of you med students had to type up an essay?

 

[DrWily]

When was the last time any of you med students had to type up an essay?

Undergrad.

EDIT: Corrected, application for medical school based on what Cliquesh reminded me.

 

[cliquesh]

When was the last time any of you med students had to type up an essay?

When I wrote my personal statement for residency.

 

[125896]

Remember you are taking what are frequently 2 semester classes in undergraduate and doing it in one. A good rule of thumb is take the time for class (8-5) and double it for studying. Sure you can shortcut some but there is a ton of memorizing facts being able to synthesize and then spit it out. Some of this won't finally come together until you get into 3rd year at which time you are expected to be able to synthesize the anatomy physiology and pharmacology to come up with a coherent answer.
This is probably one reason the MCAT is valued by admissions; it is the one great equalizer. Schools and classes vary in their requirements for grades but the MCAT lets one look across without the school name and see the persons knowledge.

 

[MedPR]

Remember you are taking what are frequently 2 semester classes in undergraduate and doing it in one. A good rule of thumb is take the time for class (8-5) and double it for studying. Sure you can shortcut some but there is a ton of memorizing facts being able to synthesize and then spit it out. Some of this won't finally come together until you get into 3rd year at which time you are expected to be able to synthesize the anatomy physiology and pharmacology to come up with a coherent answer.
This is probably one reason the MCAT is valued by admissions; it is the one great equalizer. Schools and classes vary in their requirements for grades but the MCAT lets one look across without the school name and see the persons knowledge.

Really? The rule of thumb at my UG was 3 hours of studying for every 1 hour of lecture.

 

[DrWily]

A good rule of thumb is to

1) not go to class
2) watch recorded lectures at 2x speed (if u can handle, I can do ~1.7x)
3) study that on your own everyday for a few hours
4) Do other ****
5) ????????????
6) Profit

 

[HalfListic]

That person goes to ATSU-SOMA (DO school in AZ). I'm just relating what I had heard. Second year they move out to small community health centers. No more main med school campus.

First year curriculum sounded pretty much identical to PA curriculum (no dissecting cadavers, big focus on clinical skills and a lot less basic science) and the second year they have broadcast lectures but cover less material.

IDK I've heard some dissatisfaction with the experience from folks that have gone there.

The USMLE step 1 score average I heard quoted was not high... although I hesitate to list it because I'm pretty sure that was just ball-parking based on anecdotes because the school is too scared to ask/release the data.

Also regardless of how good/bad your school is you will have outstanding people who succeed in spite of it. Although quoting one person matching in EM at a good program is a pretty funny way to defend your school.

Anyways the point is ATSU-SOMA is weird so it's not really the same as other programs.

this is pretty much entirely bogus. Nonsense. Rubbish. un-truth.


Where do we get these people??

 

[HalfListic]

A good rule of thumb is to

1) not go to class
2) watch recorded lectures at 2x speed (if u can handle, I can do ~1.7x)
3) study that on your own everyday for a few hours
4) Do other ****
5) ????????????
6) Profit

good stuff...

 

[felix2929]

Remember you are taking what are frequently 2 semester classes in undergraduate and doing it in one. A good rule of thumb is take the time for class (8-5) and double it for studying. Sure you can shortcut some but there is a ton of memorizing facts being able to synthesize and then spit it out. Some of this won't finally come together until you get into 3rd year at which time you are expected to be able to synthesize the anatomy physiology and pharmacology to come up with a coherent answer.
This is probably one reason the MCAT is valued by admissions; it is the one great equalizer. Schools and classes vary in their requirements for grades but the MCAT lets one look across without the school name and see the persons knowledge.

huh? i have to go to class for 8 hours a day then study for sixteen afterwards? sounds lame (and impossible)