What's more competitive right now? Gas or EM?

[bravotwozero]

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I know there were only 2 EM spots, vs 50 anesthesia (half and half between categorical vs advanced), but does that really make gas less competitive? Is it possible that the gas PD's deliberately kept spots open for the scramble? Would you say they're both on the same level? Any thoughts?

 

[pseudoknot]

I assume you mean unmatched spots, and there were five in EM. There's more to it than number of unmatched spots--what did the applicants look like (which we won't know til the next Charting Outcomes is released).

And honestly, who cares? People who decide between two specialties based on how competitive they are have some serious problems.

 

[ShanFan]

I assume you mean unmatched spots, and there were five in EM. There's more to it than number of unmatched spots--what did the applicants look like (which we won't know til the next Charting Outcomes is released).

And honestly, who cares? People who decide between two specialties based on how competitive they are have some serious problems.

If I liked two specialties equally, I would choose the less competitive one... just in hopes there would be a better chance I'd match at a place I loved.

 

[Torticollis]

I assume you mean unmatched spots, and there were five in EM. There's more to it than number of unmatched spots--what did the applicants look like (which we won't know til the next Charting Outcomes is released).

And honestly, who cares? People who decide between two specialties based on how competitive they are have some serious problems.

I love how jerkish some of the posters can be in here. Lighten up dude. You have no idea what the OP motives were in his question, so why give smartass comments like he/she might have "serious problems"? It is really a reflection of your own insecurity. If you don't have any actual advice for the poster, then don't bother posting. geeeeeeez. 😉

 

[pseudoknot]

I agree it's helpful to have a sense as a prospective applicant if a given specialty is within your reach or not. That's not the same as "is X or Y more competitive" where X and Y are two very different fields. And I see a lot of people in medicine sacrifice their happiness because of this pervasive obsession with prestige and rankings. It's sad.

 

[bravotwozero]

'Prestige and rankings' is NOT what I was after. My thoughts were more along the lines of what ShanFan said. I'm in a tough situation right now. I didn't match EM, and scrambled into an internship year. My wife matched at a FM program over a thousand miles away from me. I have a lot of very difficult decisions to make right now, one of them being whether I should apply EM possibly another specialty that I know I will enjoy that maybe more within reach.

 

[michigator04]

According to the NMRP's 2011 Match Summary data http://www.nrmp.org/data/2011Adv Data Tbl.pdf

EM had 1607 positions offered, 1482 US Senior applicants, of which 1268 matched (86% match rate)

Gas had 841 PGY1 positions and 563 PGY2s for a total of 1404 positions total. It's a little hard to get the exact % here because the number of applicants is different for PGY1 and PGY2, but I will assume the higher number is the number of gas applicants. That leaves it with 1158 US Seniors, of which 671 matched PGY1 and 431 matched PGY2 for a total estimated match rate of ~95% (probably lower as the total number of applicants might have been higher)

Both gas and EM had similar % filled with US seniors overall (80% gas, 79% EM). So that indicates they should be relatively similar competitiveness.

So according to my back-of-the-napkin calculations Gas was a bit easier this year than EM. If anyone has a better way to go about estimating this, please correct me.

 

[HankReardon]

'Prestige and rankings' is NOT what I was after. My thoughts were more along the lines of what ShanFan said. I'm in a tough situation right now. I didn't match EM, and scrambled into an internship year. My wife matched at a FM program over a thousand miles away from me. I have a lot of very difficult decisions to make right now, one of them being whether I should apply EM possibly another specialty that I know I will enjoy that maybe more within reach.

Yeah, for some reason this is a picky bunch if they get even a whiff of 'prestige of rankings.'

In all sincerity, I hope you work things out. I can't imagine being away from my wife for a year. That would very likely be a deal-breaker for me and I'd think hard about changing specialties. I'm not saying that would be the right choice for you, just saying good luck.

 

[tkim]

Yeah, for some reason this is a picky bunch if they get even a whiff of 'prestige of rankings.'
.

As in 'bunch' meaning one person?

 

[jbar]

I think the unmatched numbers are more an indication that EM programs are running their interview season better, ie they are able to interview enough people to have a long enough rank list not to have to scramble. I know that there are factors beyond other fields control, like it is hard to have faculty in anesthesia interview during the day when the ORs are all running. I know of some surgical programs that only have 1 or 2 interview days. Seems like they are running a biggest risk of not filling.

I actually like that there were open anesthesia spots, I would have scrambled into Gas if I hadn't matched in EM. Because I wouldn't have taken a peds or IM slot. Rounding makes me itchy.

 

[pseudoknot]

I didn't match EM, and scrambled into an internship year. My wife matched at a FM program over a thousand miles away from me.

Well, that definitely sucks, and I'm sorry that happened to you. As skeptical as I was about it, it does seem like EM was more competitive this year. Several people at my school including myself had a much tougher time than I would have expected.

Anyway, I'm sorry if my initial response was too harsh. Maybe I had a different impression of your question, and maybe that's still not an excuse.

Have you thought about IM->Pulm/CCM? I think that's what I would have done if I hadn't gotten EM (although I considered anesthesia). There are a ton of IM spots, and the CCM fellowships aren't competitive (so far). Yeah, rounding is lame, but I do think that residency gets MUCH better in the 2nd and 3rd years and as a med student you don't get as much exposure to that.

 

[Arcan57]

I know there were only 2 EM spots, vs 50 anesthesia (half and half between categorical vs advanced), but does that really make gas less competitive? Is it possible that the gas PD's deliberately kept spots open for the scramble? Would you say they're both on the same level? Any thoughts?

It's rare that someone with a 240 Step I & II and all Honors without serious interpersonal issues comes up with a match list that does not succeed in obtaining them a residency. Betting on obtaining this caliber of candidate in the scramble versus a known quality on your rank list in someone you've interviewed is going to be long odds. At least in EM, programs haven't filled because they are new and weren't set up for interviews during the season or the PD screwed up by prematurely shorting their rank list and not being as good at attracting their top candidates as they were used to. Purposely trying to get good candidates out of the scramble is usually because the quality of resident you attract normally is awful. I would doubt gas has that problem.

 

[Saladin MD]

one of them being whether I should apply EM possibly another specialty

No.

Apply again next year.

I did an intern year and then matched EM. It's all about perseverance.

 

[roja]

It is going to be harder to match in EM from a transitional year. Period. You are also limited (presumably and naturally to some degree by location). Depending on WHERE this might make it that much harder. IE west coast....

Although there may be many reasons why someone didn't match, fair or not, it acts as a touch of a red flag. some programs won't look at you at all, others will and understand.

Two things I would do: watch the SAEM site for open spots. occasionally people leave EM. If your SLOR's are good, etc, and you are doing well during your transitional year you might be able to find a spot that way.

Also, you have to really soul search and ask yourself how important is being near your wife? how close? some people do the long distance thing fine, others don't. And consider the location you are lookign to move to... is it a more competitive location?

There is nothing that doesn't keep you from applying to both fields either.

Another option, although controversial and depending on the type of career you want, is fp with a fellowship in EM. Yes, yes. I know its not board certified acep but even with all the residents we put out, we still don't have enough EMP's to fill rural ED's. Keep an open mind, get lots of advice (to get different opinions)

 

[Apollyon]

Although there may be many reasons why someone didn't match, fair or not, it acts as a touch of a red flag. some programs won't look at you at all, others will and understand.

Although it was (now) many years ago for me, when I applied the second time, still as a US FMG with sucky numbers but good letters, I got A LOT more action on the interview front. I don't know what to make of it all.

 

[Generici]

It is going to be harder to match in EM from a transitional year. Period. You are also limited (presumably and naturally to some degree by location). Depending on WHERE this might make it that much harder. IE west coast....

Do EM residencies seem to be more competitive on the west coast? All of this is a long way off for me, but that would be my top pick geographically.

 

[deleted109597]

Although there may be many reasons why someone didn't match, fair or not, it acts as a touch of a red flag. some programs won't look at you at all, others will and understand.

As much as I don't like to disagree with red, I have to interject here.
It can be a red flag, if you were simply a bad candidate. However, if you just got unlucky for whatever reason (limiting yourself geographically, couple's match, some asshat writing you a bad letter), then you can turn it all around. The important thing about having done a year of training is that the hardest part of intern year for them to teach you you've already done. You know how to be a doctor, and what hours you have to work.

I can't tell you how many times on the interview trail people point blank asked me "how did you not match if you look this good on paper?" Usually this was at the end of the interview when they had figured out that I wasn't a complete tool at the interview process. So be prepared to have a good answer.
Also, if you can have someone proofread your letters and tell you which ones you should and shouldn't use (since technically they aren't allowed to tell you what is in them) it can help you.

Also, you have to really soul search and ask yourself how important is being near your wife? how close? some people do the long distance thing fine, others don't. And consider the location you are lookign to move to... is it a more competitive location?

I would argue that it is a lot easier for her to transfer near you, as there are more FM slots than EM, and they're less competitive. That doesn't mean her program will let her transfer, but remember, you're spending a year apart already. She'll be done in 2. Another 2 years apart is hard, but is it worth the strife that is "I'm not doing what I wanted to do because I was near you?"

 

[pseudoknot]

Do EM residencies seem to be more competitive on the west coast?

Vastly.

 

[roja]

As much as I don't like to disagree with red, I have to interject here.
It can be a red flag, if you were simply a bad candidate. However, if you just got unlucky for whatever reason (limiting yourself geographically, couple's match, some asshat writing you a bad letter), then you can turn it all around. The important thing about having done a year of training is that the hardest part of intern year for them to teach you you've already done. You know how to be a doctor, and what hours you have to work.

I can't tell you how many times on the interview trail people point blank asked me "how did you not match if you look this good on paper?" Usually this was at the end of the interview when they had figured out that I wasn't a complete tool at the interview process. So be prepared to have a good answer.
Also, if you can have someone proofread your letters and tell you which ones you should and shouldn't use (since technically they aren't allowed to tell you what is in them) it can help you.

I would argue that it is a lot easier for her to transfer near you, as there are more FM slots than EM, and they're less competitive. That doesn't mean her program will let her transfer, but remember, you're spending a year apart already. She'll be done in 2. Another 2 years apart is hard, but is it worth the strife that is "I'm not doing what I wanted to do because I was near you?"

I think its shown here that transferring programs can be difficult but the reality is, its harder. It doesn't mean that you aren't going to get interviews at all, but the general feeling is going to be: why didn't you match the first time. And it might just be something like couples matching or not ranking enough programs, or something innocuous. However, like it or not, its *harder* to match after having done a year of residency. Not impossible at all, but just be prepared AND realistic. Residency leaderships know that there are great people that get bad advice, didn't apply enough, didn't rank enough, etc etc. But they also know there are very real horror stories out there. So they are just a touch more wary.


My point was simply: its a steeper mountain to climb and you should be prepared and give yourself as many advantages as you can and be as realistic as you can. 🙂

And you can disagree with me anytime! 😉