Whats more important...

[KHANSAHAAB]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Whats more important for admission: Cumulative gpa or Science gpa?

Secondly, approximatley how many years, after graduation from D-school, does it take to pay back the student loans.

 

[tRNA]

I would say your science gpa would be more important, but again a good DAT score will get you just about anywhere as long as your GPA is 3.0 or above

and money...common the last thing I would worry about is money, do you really want to be a dentist or not? think about that

salam 🙂

 

[KHANSAHAAB]

I would say your science gpa would be more important, but again a good DAT score will get you just about anywhere as long as your GPA is 3.0 or above

and money...common the last thing I would worry about is money, do you really want to be a dentist or not? think about that

salam 🙂

wasalam 🙂

tRNA, its not a question of wanting to be a dentist or not. I'm just worried about spending my late 20's and all of my 30's paying back the loans. I don't want to stress, when im like 48, that there's an x amount still to be paid.

 

[crazy_sherm]

wasalam 🙂

tRNA, its not a question of wanting to be a dentist or not. I'm just worried about spending my late 20's and all of my 30's paying back the loans. I don't want to stress, when im like 48, that there's an x amount still to be paid.

Unless you have rich parents to help you out, or you are extremely lucky and become super successful right out of school, we're probably looking at 10-30 years to pay off the school loans. That being said however, check out this thread from a couple months ago.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=198101

It can potentially be more advantageous to pay off your loans as slow as possible since the interest rate is not that high. You just have to invest properly and get over the fact that not all debt is bad.

 

[bor0000]

I would say your science gpa would be more important, but again a good DAT score will get you just about ANYWHERE as long as your GPA is 3.0 or above
[\QUOTE]

this is such a blatant lie. Maybe that was true 20 years ago... But look at all the seniors applying to schools now, many of them have scores like 22dat and 3.5gpa and theyre not even sure if average-selectivity schools like UoP will take them. With Harvard, i bet even a 30 wouldnt get you if you have a 3.0. or even a 3.5 would give you little hope.

and the dat test is so mediocre. for example there is no biochem tested on it, no physics, the orgchem(the only section i looked at so far) is very watered down. obviously schools wont care if you got a 20 on their orgchem or a 30. but if you got a B vs an A in your orgchem class or in your physics class, it means a whole lot.

 

[bor0000]

Unless you have rich parents to help you out, or you are extremely lucky and become super successful right out of school, we're probably looking at 10-30 years to pay off the school loans. That being said however, check out this thread from a couple months ago.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=198101

It can potentially be more advantageous to pay off your loans as slow as possible since the interest rate is not that high. You just have to invest properly and get over the fact that not all debt is bad.

yep, that seems natural to me. i figure if i ever make $500k i'll still be in debt and having a huge mortgage but i'll be having a very lavish lifestyle.

 

[pbure]

I would say your science gpa would be more important, but again a good DAT score will get you just about ANYWHERE as long as your GPA is 3.0 or above
[\QUOTE]

this is such a blatant lie. Maybe that was true 20 years ago... But look at all the seniors applying to schools now, many of them have scores like 22dat and 3.5gpa and theyre not even sure if average-selectivity schools like UoP will take them. With Harvard, i bet even a 30 wouldnt get you if you have a 3.0. or even a 3.5 would give you little hope.

and the dat test is so mediocre. for example there is no biochem tested on it, no physics, the orgchem(the only section i looked at so far) is very watered down. obviously schools wont care if you got a 20 on their orgchem or a 30. but if you got a B vs an A in your orgchem class or in your physics class, it means a whole lot.

if you have a 23 AA and a 3.5 u are getting into UOP. its not as bad as you are making it sound. dat may not be killer..but getting over a 20 AA is still a solid accomplishment.

 

[DB#1]

I would say your science gpa would be more important, but again a good DAT score will get you just about ANYWHERE as long as your GPA is 3.0 or above
[\QUOTE]

this is such a blatant lie. Maybe that was true 20 years ago... But look at all the seniors applying to schools now, many of them have scores like 22dat and 3.5gpa and theyre not even sure if average-selectivity schools like UoP will take them. With Harvard, i bet even a 30 wouldnt get you if you have a 3.0. or even a 3.5 would give you little hope.

and the dat test is so mediocre. for example there is no biochem tested on it, no physics, the orgchem(the only section i looked at so far) is very watered down. obviously schools wont care if you got a 20 on their orgchem or a 30. but if you got a B vs an A in your orgchem class or in your physics class, it means a whole lot.

How do you know this 😕
3.5 GPA and 22 DAT is not a requirment to apply to Dental school. True you see all kinda of impressinve GPAs and DAT scores here on SDN, but that's not the norm, in fact it's far from it.
I applied an interviewed at many schools, I came to realize that many do people get in with less than 3.0 GPA, it is possible.

And if you ever meet anyone with 30 on the DAT let me know, it's not possible to get 30 on some sections.

Back to the OP, it all depends on schools, some schools look at GPAs and make certain cutoffs (for example, we were told at our interview last cycle that Temple will not consider applicants with less than 3.2 Sci GPA, but remember, that's only one school, and they are looking at Sci GPA only, you could have 2.8 overall and 3.2 Sci and they would consider you). So, it's better to call the schools and ask which GPA is more important. Generally, I realized that schools take a closer look at the Science and BCP GPAs and then overall GPA.

 

[bor0000]

so temple had a 3.2 cutoff for INTERVIEW in '04-05 cycle, while in 03-04 the AVERAGE SCI gpa of the matriculants was 3.15. This means that if you have a 3.5 you may get accepted by UoP, but it's a good idea to apply to other schools of similar selectivity. On the other hand, there is no chance at harvard, or even uconn.

this is of course all hearsay, from reading this forum and all. but believe me, it makes sense...

 

[RaiderNation]

Last year at my school stats show that people with a 2.7-2.99 science GPAs...25 applied and 18 were accepted. There are so many people that apply with awesome stats, but we often forget that there are tons of applicants getting in with less than 3.0 science gpa's.

 

[Mustt Mustt]

I would say your science gpa would be more important, but again a good DAT score will get you just about ANYWHERE as long as your GPA is 3.0 or above
[\QUOTE]

this is such a blatant lie. Maybe that was true 20 years ago... But look at all the seniors applying to schools now, many of them have scores like 22dat and 3.5gpa and theyre not even sure if average-selectivity schools like UoP will take them. With Harvard, i bet even a 30 wouldnt get you if you have a 3.0. or even a 3.5 would give you little hope.

and the dat test is so mediocre. for example there is no biochem tested on it, no physics, the orgchem(the only section i looked at so far) is very watered down. obviously schools wont care if you got a 20 on their orgchem or a 30. but if you got a B vs an A in your orgchem class or in your physics class, it means a whole lot.

What you sating is true if all the applicants are represented on SDN. I know 15 ppl outside of SDN who are applying and only one person beside me has above 20AA and i have 15PAT. It's not that easy to find people with 20AA across the board. You have to realize that people on SDn are overachoevers and they tend be more prepared than others. If you have 3.3 with soldi DAT you have good chance of getting in. Dental School admission is not as hard as people make it out ot be. We had 3 people that I know on SDN got in this year with below 3.0 and they had DAT between 21-23AA. So it's possible. It's not that easy to get 20's as you are saying. It may be esay if you got all A's in your classes otherwise not.

 

[KHANSAHAAB]

What you sating is true if all the applicants are represented on SDN. I know 15 ppl outside of SDN who are applying and only one person beside me has above 20AA and i have 15PAT. It's not that easy to find people with 20AA across the board. You have to realize that people on SDn are overachoevers and they tend be more prepared than others. If you have 3.3 with soldi DAT you have good chance of getting in. Dental School admission is not as hard as people make it out ot be. We had 3 people that I know on SDN got in this year with below 3.0 and they had DAT between 21-23AA. So it's possible. It's not that easy to get 20's as you are saying. It may be esay if you got all A's in your classes otherwise not.[/QUOT

Do u talk of science gpa or cumulative gpa?

 

[DinoDentist]

Everyone needs to realize that it completely differs from school to school. Some schools look more highly on GPA than DAT (ie OHSU) while other schools outway they DAT over GPA (ie UOP). Even in the GPA department, some schools look strongly on your chemistry, physics, and biology GPA, while other schools look more at your overall.
And the comment on the DAT being "mediocre" above... You obviously do not understand what the test is, and what it is trying to accomplish. THe test is designed to show your basic knowledge of the sciences, mathematics, reading comprehension and perceptual ability. It is not designed to be a hard test, or go way into depth into the subjects it covers. The test is designed for you to show that schools that you understand the basic materials covered on it, and is another way for schools to stack you up against other applicants by how well you do. The same type of student may be earning a 3.5 at Harvard (a school with relatively high grade inflation) and may only achieve a 3.0 at BYU (a school with low grade inflation) for their undergraduate. The same type of applicants GPA may vary from school to school, but everyone has to take the same test, and this is a way for you to confirm to the admissions committee that you are a credible applicant.

 

[SunnyD0119]

you guys say the avg science gpa for matriculants is 3.15?? i've got a 3.22 and that kind of worries me but another question...any other schools that have certain cutoffs that anyone know off the top of their heads?

 

[bor0000]

THe test is designed to show your basic knowledge of the sciences, mathematics, reading comprehension and perceptual ability. It is not designed to be a hard test, or go way into depth into the subjects it covers. The test is designed for you to show that schools that you understand the basic materials covered on it, and is another way for schools to stack you up against other applicants by how well you do. The same type of student may be earning a 3.5 at Harvard (a school with relatively high grade inflation) and may only achieve a 3.0 at BYU (a school with low grade inflation) for their undergraduate. The same type of applicants GPA may vary from school to school, but everyone has to take the same test, and this is a way for you to confirm to the admissions committee that you are a credible applicant.

I know what the test is designed to do. And it does a much worse job than MCAT.

lol, a 3.5 from Harvard is like 3.0 from BYU??? your credibility goes down the drain.

 

[RaiderNation]

I know what the test is designed to do. And it does a much worse job than MCAT.

lol, a 3.5 from Harvard is like 3.0 from BYU??? your credibility goes down the drain.

Obviously you have never been to BYU. One of the reasons BYU is so successful at getting students into professional schools is because their grades are treated differently. There is no grade inflation whatsoever and dental schools know that. So it is much easier to get into dental school with a sub-3.0 gpa from BYU than from virtually any other school. BYU produces more dental students than any school in the US. Second is UCLA, which has more students than BYU. Plus BYU is big on service which is a huge plus. I don't know about Harvard because I don't know anyone who attends or has attended there.

 

[bwa102]

temple had a 3.2 cutoff for INTERVIEW in '04-05 cycle

i was interviewed and waitlisted at temple with sub 3.0 gpa, and i didn't apply until january 16th. my dat score is above average, 22.

 

[DB#1]

i was interviewed and waitlisted at temple with sub 3.0 gpa, and i didn't apply until january 16th. my dat score is above average, 22.

Yeah, that was last cycle... But didn't Brain talked about "raising the bar" for this cycle, where a Science GPA of 3.2 is the cutoff?
Plus, like a I said before, your Overall GPA can be less than 3.0 and Science GPA more than 3.2 and you can still make that cutoff.

 

[bwa102]

My sci GPA is sub 3.0 also. From what I remember, if Temple decides to interview you, you are accepted with a 3.2 GPA and 18DAT. Otherwise, the admissions committee goes over your interview responses and secondary essay.

You may be right about Temple raising the bar this cycle, though I'm certainly not in the know as to what the new automatic acceptance cutoff is.

The point is that getting an interview is the most important step in the process, and Temple for one does not seem to have a straight GPA cutoff for interviews. It seems to me adcoms are looking for a certain number of strengths, which may include a good GPA. If it doesn't, you need other strengths to make up for it.

 

[fishindr]

wasalam 🙂

tRNA, its not a question of wanting to be a dentist or not. I'm just worried about spending my late 20's and all of my 30's paying back the loans. I don't want to stress, when im like 48, that there's an x amount still to be paid.

Are you serious? I'm going to be paying back my loans for 30 years, so what? Take a look at the BIG picture, it's really not that big of a deal. If you do in fact decide to do this dental thing, you'll be taking out loans your whole life, D-school will look like chump change when you're looking at spending 3/4 of a million on a practice! I used to worry about this stuff too, until EVERY dentist I talked to looked at me like I was some ***** when I told them I was worried about it. It's really not that big of a deal.

 

[fishindr]

Obviously you have never been to BYU. One of the reasons BYU is so successful at getting students into professional schools is because their grades are treated differently. There is no grade inflation whatsoever and dental schools know that. So it is much easier to get into dental school with a sub-3.0 gpa from BYU than from virtually any other school. BYU produces more dental students than any school in the US. Second is UCLA, which has more students than BYU. Plus BYU is big on service which is a huge plus. I don't know about Harvard because I don't know anyone who attends or has attended there.

RN- You're assuming that they even LOOK at what school you went to. Basically, with most of these schools you have ONE person that decides whether you get an interview or not. This is the Dean of Admissions. Do you REALLY think he/she takes the time to look over 1500 applications, IN DETAIL when determining who gets an interview (the single most important thing when applying BTW)? NO. If they do, it's EXTREMELY RARE, so hopefully you luck out and find the few schools in the nation that actually look at this BEFORE offering you an interview. The school you did your undergraduate studies at is only going to help you AFTER you get an interview, if you have a 2.8 GPA from BYU (a more difficult school by your standards, right?) you have MUCH LESS OF A CHANCE of getting an interview than does someone with a 3.3 from a "less difficult school". That's just how it is. On the other hand, if you do get an interview, you have a better chance of getting in because someone will have looked over your application critically and will surely noticed that you went to a more difficult school (especially since you surely pointed this out in your personal statement).

The fact is, they basically put your file in a stack with all the others from 4.0-3.8, 3.8-3.6, 3.6-3.4, and so on (just an example) Then they go through the ones with higher GPA's (4.0-3.8) FIRST. They look at DAT scores and usually 1 or 2 other pre-determined stat, like # of hours in a dental office, # of volunteering, THIS varies from school to school.

The DAT scores are only there to confirm you're grades are legit or " a way for you to confirm to the admissions committee that you are a credible applicant." That's about all.

The "other stat" is just a way for that particular school to filter out the students that "don't fit the mold" for their school. If they are big on public health (i.e. Arizona), you'd better have TONS of hours of community service. If they are looking to pump out general dentists, you'd better have logged a lot of time in GENERAL dentists offices before you apply.

A simply way to look at this is that all these grades, DAT scores, # hours voluteering, etc. is just a big filter, before your interview. The better your scores the better chance you have of not being filtered out, that's it. There's A LOT of applicants, and if you think that they are looking at your application as anything more than a number and another thing for them to do AT WORK, you're kidding yourself.

Here's a rule of thumb to go by when applying which was given to me by the DEAN of my state dental school:

"Before you get your interview, they are looking for reasons to REJECT you're application, don't give them any. During and after the interview they are looking for reasons to ACCEPT you, give them plenty."

Think about that statement and you should be good to go.

 

[fishindr]

What you sating is true if all the applicants are represented on SDN. I know 15 ppl outside of SDN who are applying and only one person beside me has above 20AA and i have 15PAT. It's not that easy to find people with 20AA across the board. You have to realize that people on SDn are overachoevers and they tend be more prepared than others. If you have 3.3 with soldi DAT you have good chance of getting in. Dental School admission is not as hard as people make it out ot be. We had 3 people that I know on SDN got in this year with below 3.0 and they had DAT between 21-23AA. So it's possible. It's not that easy to get 20's as you are saying. It may be esay if you got all A's in your classes otherwise not.

"If you have 3.3 with soldi DAT you have good chance of getting in."

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. There's a BIG difference between someone who has a 3.3 GPA that scored a 1.5 his/her freshman year and then they are on the dean's list for the next 3 years, and someone who's GPA is all over the place (i.e. 4.0 one year, 2.5 the next, 3.3 the year after that). A 3.3 with that kind of trend makes you a RISK, a 3.3 with SOLID grades following a tough year or two makes you a person who was lacking direction, good study habits, etc. but has now figured it out and is no longer a risk for the school, but rather someone that will excel.

Sure, both applicants have about as equal shot at getting an interview, but one definitely has a much better chance at getting in than does the other.

"We had 3 people that I know on SDN got in this year with below 3.0 "

Have you actually seen the "3.0 and Under" thread? There's an insane amount of people that have below a 3.0, and you know of 3 that got an interview. Are you really using this fact to support your statement: "Dental School admission is not as hard as people make it out ot be."? Sure, there's a slight chance that you'll get in with that low of a GPA, but the odds are definitely stacked very much against you. Fact is, You're right, dental school admission IS NOT as hard as people make it out to be, but it IS as hard as you make it.

I personally know 6 people that applied last year with below 3.0 GPA's. Each applied to AT LEAST 10 schools, most applied to more like 15. I know of ONE that even scored an interview and he ended up on a waitlist, followed by a thin letter a few months after that.

 

[Mustt Mustt]

"If you have 3.3 with soldi DAT you have good chance of getting in."

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. There's a BIG difference between someone who has a 3.3 GPA that scored a 1.5 his/her freshman year and then they are on the dean's list for the next 3 years, and someone who's GPA is all over the place (i.e. 4.0 one year, 2.5 the next, 3.3 the year after that). A 3.3 with that kind of trend makes you a RISK, a 3.3 with SOLID grades following a tough year or two makes you a person who was lacking direction, good study habits, etc. but has now figured it out and is no longer a risk for the school, but rather someone that will excel.

Sure, both applicants have about as equal shot at getting an interview, but one definitely has a much better chance at getting in than does the other.

"We had 3 people that I know on SDN got in this year with below 3.0 "

Have you actually seen the "3.0 and Under" thread? There's an insane amount of people that have below a 3.0, and you know of 3 that got an interview. Are you really using this fact to support your statement: "Dental School admission is not as hard as people make it out ot be."? Sure, there's a slight chance that you'll get in with that low of a GPA, but the odds are definitely stacked very much against you. Fact is, You're right, dental school admission IS NOT as hard as people make it out to be, but it IS as hard as you make it.

I personally know 6 people that applied last year with below 3.0 GPA's. Each applied to AT LEAST 10 schools, most applied to more like 15. I know of ONE that even scored an interview and he ended up on a waitlist, followed by a thin letter a few months after that.

First of all you didn't get my point. All I am saying is that it is possible to get into dental school with sub 3.0 but other factors have to be strong. Getting in with below 3.0 is not ideal but is not impossible either. And 3.3 is a solid GPA if you come from schools like BYU, Michigan, UT, UC berkely and many others like that. If you have DAT of 23 and 3.0 you will get into dental school if you apply to the right schools. Most schools average GPA is around 3.3 so its not hard to get in with that.

Obviously you didn't tell us the 6 people's DAt scores that you know who didn;t get in. If they had 23 and GPA around 2.9-3.0 with strong EC's I am pretty sure they would have gotten somewhere but you just wanted to take whatever I said out of the context.

So what you saying is that it's OK to screw up your freshman year but not others. why is that. As long as you have upward trend of 3 semesters with upper level science classes in the end you have proven enough to dental schools.

 

[RaiderNation]

RN- You're assuming that they even LOOK at what school you went to. Basically, with most of these schools you have ONE person that decides whether you get an interview or not. This is the Dean of Admissions. Do you REALLY think he/she takes the time to look over 1500 applications, IN DETAIL when determining who gets an interview (the single most important thing when applying BTW)? NO. If they do, it's EXTREMELY RARE, so hopefully you luck out and find the few schools in the nation that actually look at this BEFORE offering you an interview. The school you did your undergraduate studies at is only going to help you AFTER you get an interview, if you have a 2.8 GPA from BYU (a more difficult school by your standards, right?) you have MUCH LESS OF A CHANCE of getting an interview than does someone with a 3.3 from a "less difficult school". That's just how it is. On the other hand, if you do get an interview, you have a better chance of getting in because someone will have looked over your application critically and will surely noticed that you went to a more difficult school (especially since you surely pointed this out in your personal statement).

The fact is, they basically put your file in a stack with all the others from 4.0-3.8, 3.8-3.6, 3.6-3.4, and so on (just an example) Then they go through the ones with higher GPA's (4.0-3.8) FIRST. They look at DAT scores and usually 1 or 2 other pre-determined stat, like # of hours in a dental office, # of volunteering, THIS varies from school to school.

The DAT scores are only there to confirm you're grades are legit or " a way for you to confirm to the admissions committee that you are a credible applicant." That's about all.

The "other stat" is just a way for that particular school to filter out the students that "don't fit the mold" for their school. If they are big on public health (i.e. Arizona), you'd better have TONS of hours of community service. If they are looking to pump out general dentists, you'd better have logged a lot of time in GENERAL dentists offices before you apply.

A simply way to look at this is that all these grades, DAT scores, # hours voluteering, etc. is just a big filter, before your interview. The better your scores the better chance you have of not being filtered out, that's it. There's A LOT of applicants, and if you think that they are looking at your application as anything more than a number and another thing for them to do AT WORK, you're kidding yourself.

Here's a rule of thumb to go by when applying which was given to me by the DEAN of my state dental school:

"Before you get your interview, they are looking for reasons to REJECT you're application, don't give them any. During and after the interview they are looking for reasons to ACCEPT you, give them plenty."

Think about that statement and you should be good to go.

I'm just pointing out the numbers. Many people say that adcomm's don't look at what school you went to, but BYU students success rate of getting into and performance in dental school says otherwise. Does BYU have the brightest students of any university? Of course not, every university has tons of great students. But BYU has gained a reputation with professional schools and students from there have found adcomm's to be much more forgiving with grades. Granted BYU students DAT/MCAT/LSAT scores are constantly among the highest in the nation. Maybe they're just good test takers.

 

[fishindr]

First of all you didn't get my point. All I am saying is that it is possible to get into dental school with sub 3.0 but other factors have to be strong. Getting in with below 3.0 is not ideal but is not impossible either. And 3.3 is a solid GPA if you come from schools like BYU, Michigan, UT, UC berkely and many others like that. If you have DAT of 23 and 3.0 you will get into dental school if you apply to the right schools. Most schools average GPA is around 3.3 so its not hard to get in with that. QUOTE]

My point is, if you have a 3.3 from BYU and a 3.3 from any other school (and all your other scores are basically the same), you have the same chance of getting an interview. On the other hand, a 3.3 student at BYU may be a 3.6 student at another school. This student, by choosing to go to a more difficult school, has essentially made the admissions process much more difficult for him/herself. Once he/she gets an interview, yeah, they probably have a better chance over those with similar GPA's, but it's going to be A LOT harder to get that interview, which, is this SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE ADMISSION'S PROCESS. Since once you get your interview, it's basically your job to hang yourself and give them reason's not to accept you.

Take it from a guy whose done this application thing twice. Talked with literally hundreds of students from around the country. At least dozen of so Dean's of Admission and Dean's of the various school's of dentistry around the country. You are taking a risk by going to more difficult schools for your undergrad (at this point it's too late). Or you could take it from a guy that scored the same DAT scores as me (a state school student) and has a slightly lower GPA than I (3.1 cum.)... but he did his undergrad at STANFORD. He'll be applying for the 3rd time this year.

"Obviously you didn't tell us the 6 people's DAt scores that you know who didn;t get in. If they had 23 and GPA around 2.9-3.0 with strong EC's I am pretty sure they would have gotten somewhere but you just wanted to take whatever I said out of the context."

I'm trying to tell you that MOST schools could really care less about how high your DAT scores are WHEN DECIDING TO GIVE YOU AN INTERVIEW, and ALMOST ALL won't even look at your EC's until you have got your interview, and even then only ONE or TWO people will even see them, and that's if they just happen to be an interviewer that gives a damn about you EC's. Most schools have a MINIMUM DAT REQUIREMENT. They use your GPA to basically rank you, and they just go down the list, checking to see who has above ____ DAT scores and maybe a couple other pre-determined stats. If you've got a lower GPA, plan on getting an interview next January or February, AFTER they've already interviewed the people with higher GPA's. That's just how it is, I know, I did the damn thing....TWICE. BTW, 4 of those people had above 20 DAT scores and one had a 24 or 25.

Honestly, the fact that you're a 2006 applicant and you think you've got this thing figured out gets me worried for you. IT IS NOT AN EASY PROCESS! You'll find this out soon enough. If it makes you feel better to think that "As long as you have upward trend of 3 semesters with upper level science classes in the end you have proven enough to dental schools.", great. But the fact is, if you have a sub-par freshman year, most INTERVIEWERS are going to understand, because they probably had the same thing or at least understand the factors (beer, girls, parties, etc.) that create low GPA's. Freshman year is when you get the most drop outs, they know this, it's not a secret, plus by the time you apply it's been years since that time in your life. But, on the other hand, if you have 3 semesters of good grades preceded by a GPA on a freakin' roller coaster ride, YOU ARE A RISK TO THEIR PROGRAM. You HAVE NOT proven that you have the ability to be a solid student for any significant period of time, so if it were me, I'd plan on taking another 2 semesters of upper division courses once you get the thin letter. Then you'll have solid scores over a decent period of time, the things that dental schools are looking for. Good students that are going to perform well THROUGHOUT school.

 

[drengineer]

If somebody is implying that Adcoms don't look at what school you are coming from... then, my friend, you need to take some time and re-evaluate your thoughts.
Adcoms look at each application, individually and very carefully, and then they compare it the pool. I talked to Columbia university's director of admissions and those were his words. They evaluate every individual inside out.

I'm amazed... BYU has an acceptance rate of about 90% as compared to the nations 60%. Man that's impressive!

 

[fishindr]

If somebody is implying that Adcoms don't look at what school you are coming from... then, my friend, you need to take some time and re-evaluate your thoughts.
Adcoms look at each application, individually and very carefully, and then they compare it the pool. I talked to Columbia university's director of admissions and those were his words. They evaluate every individual inside out.

I'm amazed... BYU has an acceptance rate of about 90% as compared to the nations 60%. Man that's impressive!

By no means am I implying that the ADMISSIONS COMMITTEE doesn't look at what school you are coming from, but the admissions committee isn't the person that determines whether or not you get an interview or not. The adcom only looks at you application AFTER you've been invited for an interview, and even then it's usually only your interviewer that really looks at your application critically.

Look, adcoms are composed of various members of the school, sometimes one or two dentists in the local area that want to be involved. It usually about 8 people that all work together, have lunch together, etc. ALL of them are working for the school in some form or another. Do you honestly think that all 8 people on the admissions committee takes the time to look over every application (usually about 1000, but many schools it's far more) to determine who gets an interview and who does not? HELL NO! THE DEAN OF ADMISSIONS is the person who decides who gets an interview, and only then does your application get looked at critically (this is where you EC's, undergraduate school, etc. comes into play). The dean of admissions knows NOTHING about you, you are simply another number in a stack of 1000 applicants. They have PRE-DETERMINED STATS, aka cutoffs, that they use to determine who gets interviews. So, the dean of admissions has 1000 applications. He/she takes those with the highest GPA, let's say 3.75-4.0 and goes through those files FIRST. They then look at your DAT. Maybe the school has determined that if an applicant has above 18 on AA and 21 on PAT they deserve an interview (this is just an example, and it varies between schools, but it's pretty much the same EVERYWHERE....excluding schools that do it the other way around, ie go by the highest DAT scores then look at your GPA, like UoP). They do interviews, see how many students they need to fill the class are left, and do it all over again with the 3.5-3.74 students.

This information is coming from Boston U., Creighton, OHSU, Case Western, and many more schools in which I've personally sat down with the Dean of Admissions and asked HOW their admissions process works. Usually, you don't get all the info, they keep A LOT hidden, but I was lucky enough to have a couple of doctors who are on admissions committee's sit down and tell me the straight TIHS. This is BASICALLY how it goes, like I said, it varies from school to school slightly, but the basic format is the same.

Remember this, up until you get an interview YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A NUMBER! Your GPA and your DAT (somewhat) determine whether you get an interview or not. If you go to an "easy" school and pull a 3.8 GPA, you will get into far more schools and simply have a much easier application experience than someone who chose to go to a more difficult school and pull a 3.3 GPA. Possibly, you are both comprable academically, but one made the process more difficult for themself.

 

[bor0000]

Fishindr, so assuming what you say is true, might this only occur at the less competitive schools, like BostonU?
Also you mentioned that UoP first looks at your DAT as opposed to gpa... Then it would mean that if you have a really strong DAT, you should have an easy time getting an interview there...

Also most schools i believe make you send in a personal statement and recommendations before deciding whether to give you an interview, or not? I mean if they didnt look at that, then they wouldnt require it, since the people that they do invite to the interview, they can ask them all those questions(that might be asked for in recommendations and essays) in person...

And also, do you know if there are any other schools that put a strong emphasis on the DAT, just like UoP? What about Columbia, Upenn, and Harvard?
Thanks

 

[kato999]

Our school puts a numeric value on the school you attended. If you went to a top 20 school (Harvard, Duke, Notre Dame etc.) then it is worth x amount. schools ranked 21-40 are worth y points and so on. This numeric value is independent of gpa. BYU is not ranked in the top 70 so it doesn't get any points in our system.

btw HSDM strongly takes into consideration what school you attend, quite a few people got denied there with 3.8+ gpa's while others were accepted with 3.4ish but from more difficult undergrads.

 

[bor0000]

Thanks for the info. You say harvard does this. What other schools give points for your school's name?

 

[hawk52]

I would say your science gpa would be more important, but again a good DAT score will get you just about ANYWHERE as long as your GPA is 3.0 or above
[\QUOTE]

this is such a blatant lie. Maybe that was true 20 years ago... But look at all the seniors applying to schools now, many of them have scores like 22dat and 3.5gpa and theyre not even sure if average-selectivity schools like UoP will take them. With Harvard, i bet even a 30 wouldnt get you if you have a 3.0. or even a 3.5 would give you little hope.

and the dat test is so mediocre. for example there is no biochem tested on it, no physics, the orgchem(the only section i looked at so far) is very watered down. obviously schools wont care if you got a 20 on their orgchem or a 30. but if you got a B vs an A in your orgchem class or in your physics class, it means a whole lot.

\

Not so sure about the harvard thing...the barrons (2003) book i have has harvard at a 3.7 22/20 average..So i think a 3.5 and a 30 would give you a pretty decent shot..you say it may give you a little hope?

 

[Ruprick]

Our school puts a numeric value on the school you attended. If you went to a top 20 school (Harvard, Duke, Notre Dame etc.) then it is worth x amount. schools ranked 21-40 are worth y points and so on. This numeric value is independent of gpa. BYU is not ranked in the top 70 so it doesn't get any points in our system.

btw HSDM strongly takes into consideration what school you attend, quite a few people got denied there with 3.8+ gpa's while others were accepted with 3.4ish but from more difficult undergrads.

Kato, any idea what ASDOH refers to when ranking the schools? I find it hard to believe that BYU is not in the top 70 .... I could be a little biased, though. 🙂

I ask because ASDOH is my top choice.

 

[kato999]

Kato, any idea what ASDOH refers to when ranking the schools? I find it hard to believe that BYU is not in the top 70 .... I could be a little biased, though. 🙂

I ask because ASDOH is my top choice.

I believe it is the US news report. Still, there are plenty of students from BYU at our school, so that school ranking thing is not really a huge factor.

 

[fishindr]

Also most schools i believe make you send in a personal statement and recommendations before deciding whether to give you an interview, or not? I mean if they didnt look at that, then they wouldnt require it, since the people that they do invite to the interview, they can ask them all those questions(that might be asked for in recommendations and essays) in person...

Yeah, they make you send in your personal statement and LOR before the interview, but that's because why would they waste their time AND MONEY to give interviews to people who don't have their application's complete? They require that you have your personal statement and LOR so that AFTER YOU GET SELECTED FOR AN INTERVIEW, your interviewer can look over it, ask you questions about it. Then, after your interview, your interviewer makes a recommendation to the Admissions Board as to whether or not they feel you are a good candidate for their school. MOST of the time, if your interviewer give a 👍 , then you're in.

Trust me, call ANY Dean of Admissions in this whole damn country and ask them if they read every applicants (remember, 1000 is low, many schools have 2000+ applicants) personal statement and read all their LOR's. I promise you, there is no way in hell that they take the time to read everyone's personal statement, they have better things to do. Now, you're interviewer on the other hand, yes, they read your personal statement....when they take your file home the night before your interview to prepare for the next day (an interview that is 1/2 hour long and crammed between their patients and lectures).

 

[ElDienteLoco]

Less students at ASDOH from BYU in the year after Kato. I think only three of us applied from BYU. They do like Committee from BYU. If you didn't go through committee, better tell them why not...even if you say that you don't like running as much as Bloxham.

 

[bor0000]

thanks a lot, i have no more questions.