what's my title?

[Phipps]

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Quick question: I graduated ("walked") and my degree is being conferred at the end of my internship (Fall, 2016). In the meantime, applying to post-docs and submitting a paper, what exactly do I put on my CV?

 

[EmotRegulation]

Walking is ceremonial, not official. Until your degree is conferred, you aren't technically a PhD. Like, if you do something wildly unethical and stupid (like post pictures on Facebook of you and your client making out), your internship could prevent you from finishing and you wouldn't get your degree.

 

[Phipps]

Walking is ceremonial, not official. Until your degree is conferred, you aren't technically a PhD. Like, if you do something wildly unethical and stupid (like post pictures on Facebook of you and your client making out), your internship could prevent you from finishing and you wouldn't get your degree.

Thanks!

 

[dr_doohickey]

Also check the official degree conferral date of your university. You may have a gap between the completion of the internship and the conferral date.

 

[DrMikeP]

Also check the official degree conferral date of your university. You may have a gap between the completion of the internship and the conferral date.

Agreed! My graduating university conferred daily, the later of at the end of internship or the day you completed your dissertation. My university I am a prof at only confers degrees every quarter, so if your paperwork is not completed you don't get your degree the day you complete internship. Until your degree is conferred you are still MA or MS or for some who refuse to give masters along the way BA or BS.

 

[WJPSYCH]

This situation happens every year where people are on postdoc, have completed the internship and all degree requirements, but have to wait for official degree conferral until December because of idiosyncratic university bureaucracy. That being said, what do we call these people? While technically post-doctorates and finished with doctorate requirements, are they "doctor?"

 

[DrMikeP]

No they are technically not a doctor yet. I've heard the term predoctoral resident used, extended intern, intern, etc I was xxx MA ABD, counselor until I defended. It's annoying and I'd be fine with calling someone doctor, but my university doesn't allow such until degree conferral.

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[AcronymAllergy]

I was in a limbo state myself for a few months while I waited for my official degree conferral, as my grad school only awarded them twice yearly. I just referred to myself, I think, as a neuropsychology fellow, and was introduced by supervisors with my first and last name (i.e., no "doctor").

 

[smalltownpsych]

Quick question: I graduated ("walked") and my degree is being conferred at the end of my internship (Fall, 2016). In the meantime, applying to post-docs and submitting a paper, what exactly do I put on my CV?

In homage to Sydney Poitier, I am thinking that this would be the best way to introduce yourself at this point:
"They call me Mr. Phipps!"

 

[WisNeuro]

I thought it was Mr. Tibbs?

 

[smalltownpsych]

I thought it was Mr. Tibbs?

It is. I was just using the OPs name. 😎

 

[WisNeuro]

Aha! What if the OP is a Ms. ? 🙂

 

[smalltownpsych]

Aha! What if the OP is a Ms. ? 🙂

lol Doesn't matter at this stage of training, you call her Mister! 😛

Seriously though. I also hated some of the title confusion and having to explain who I was throughout my training. Pre-intern, extern, pre-doctoral intern, practicum student. It is a lot easier nowadays to just say I'm a psychologist. I was supervising a post-doc who during the interim between taking the EPPP and orals after the one year residency was completed had to refer to herself as "temporary permit practitioner in psychology". Now that is a mouthful. 😱

 

[deleted343839]

I think it's OK under your education heading to list "Ph.D., expected date of graduation xx/xx/16" or something like that. Just make sure it's completely clear that the degree hasn't been conferred.

Whatever you do, don't put So-and-so Phipps, ABD on your resume. That makes me cringe.

 

[DrMikeP]

I think it's OK under your education heading to list "Ph.D., expected date of graduation xx/xx/16" or something like that. Just make sure it's completely clear that the degree hasn't been conferred.

Whatever you do, don't put So-and-so Phipps, ABD on your resume. That makes me cringe.

Depends heavily on your University. I wasn't a fan of ABD either, and most people have no clue what that means. We were told if we put our degree with expected date of graduation that would even be a violation of policy. So the best strategy is consult with your University to see what is allowed. This close you don't want someone's pathology at your uni to get in the way.

We as Psychologists imo worry too much over splitting hairs and too often miss the bigger common sense picture.

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[deleted343839]

We were told if we put our degree with expected date of graduation that would even be a violation of policy.

Oh, how silly. How do they enforce that policy, anyway?

I don't think anyone other than my advisor even looked at my CV when I applied for jobs.

 

[DrMikeP]

Oh, how silly. How do they enforce that policy, anyway?

I don't think anyone other than my advisor even looked at my CV when I applied for jobs.

Completely agree. I thought it was just some of the profs at my university that were nuts, until I started practicing and began hearing colleagues discussing how bad it was and against state law in my state to call yourself a "licensed clinical psychologist" as the state required the term "licensed psychologist." So they complained at and threatened to report anyone who might have something different. Oh the horror. Some people have nothing better to do with their lives than look for non-rule followers.

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[WJPSYCH]

Just to clarify. I am talking about clinical psych Ph.D.'s who have defended dissertations and completed internship and are merely waiting until a graduation ceremony happens. This is not ABD status as ALL graduation requirements are fulfilled.

No they are technically not a doctor yet. I've heard the term predoctoral resident used, extended intern, intern, etc I was xxx MA ABD, counselor until I defended. It's annoying and I'd be fine with calling someone doctor, but my university doesn't allow such until degree conferral.

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[AcronymAllergy]

Just to clarify. I am talking about clinical psych Ph.D.'s who have defended dissertations and completed internship and are merely waiting until a graduation ceremony happens. This is not ABD status as ALL graduation requirements are fulfilled.

As I mentioned above, I was in that situation for a few months early on in my postdoc. In my mind, as my degree had not yet been conferred (even though all requirements had been met), I wasn't "doctor." That's reserved until after actually receiving the degree. I just referred to myself as a neuropsychology fellow. It becomes a bit tougher in a less-formalized setting, but maybe something along the lines of "therapist," "researcher," or whatever the case may be.

 

[DrMikeP]

Just to clarify. I am talking about clinical psych Ph.D.'s who have defended dissertations and completed internship and are merely waiting until a graduation ceremony happens. This is not ABD status as ALL graduation requirements are fulfilled.

You're ultimately still just a psychology intern. The ceremony is just a ceremony.

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[WJPSYCH]

As I mentioned above, I was in that situation for a few months early on in my postdoc. In my mind, as my degree had not yet been conferred (even though all requirements had been met), I wasn't "doctor." That's reserved until after actually receiving the degree. I just referred to myself as a neuropsychology fellow. It becomes a bit tougher in a less-formalized setting, but maybe something along the lines of "therapist," "researcher," or whatever the case may be.

I think that makes the most sense and is the solution I will use.

I wish I was in a less formal setting where I could use my first name instead of Mr./Ms./Mrs. though. There's something inherently confusing about the postdoctoral fellow not being called doctor. Or signing reports that could go to court as Mr./Ms./Mrs. and then listing my title as postdoctoral fellow. Thankfully it will only apply for a few months, and at least it isn't as confusing as the term "intern" which makes it sound like I could have been a high schooler shadowing for a day and in no way reflects my relative level of training/expertise.

 

[WJPSYCH]

You're ultimately still just a psychology intern. The ceremony is just a ceremony.

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Still a postdoctoral fellow. The ceremony is the only thing that has not happened in this upcoming scenario. Point taken though.

 

[DrMikeP]

Still a postdoctoral fellow. The ceremony is the only thing that has not happened in this upcoming scenario. Point taken though.

You aren't post (meaning after) doctoral until your degree is conferred. predoctoral perhaps.

 

[Phipps]

In homage to Sydney Poitier, I am thinking that this would be the best way to introduce yourself at this point:
"They call me Mr. Phipps!"

...definitely put a smile on my face...

 

[Phipps]

Depends heavily on your University. I wasn't a fan of ABD either, and most people have no clue what that means. We were told if we put our degree with expected date of graduation that would even be a violation of policy. So the best strategy is consult with your University to see what is allowed. This close you don't want someone's pathology at your uni to get in the way.

We as Psychologists imo worry too much over splitting hairs and too often miss the bigger common sense picture.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

so, I guess, I have put "expected..." on my CV. Why would that be a problem. I never even thought of that...

 

[Phipps]

Aha! What if the OP is a Ms. ? 🙂

...it actually is a "Ms. Phipps," named after the Phipps Clinic, back in those days, a famous asylum and part of the Johns Hopkins Hospital. Plus: I called my cat Ms. Phipps...

 

[DrMikeP]

so, I guess, I have put "expected..." on my CV. Why would that be a problem. I never even thought of that...

Many things aren't real problems until someone with not enough to do makes it such. Seems like different schools get stuck on different things. Like my university I'm a prof at insists on the term "psychology trainee" for practicum students and it's a mortal sin in some calls themselves anything else.

 

[bcliff]

If someone has a PhD in clinical psych but is not licensed, should they still be referred to as a clinical psychologist?

 

[WisNeuro]

If someone has a PhD in clinical psych but is not licensed, should they still be referred to as a clinical psychologist?

There may be a difference in should and could depending on your jurisdiction. In answering the should they be, no, they should not be.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Some states have explicit laws about titles, many do not. I tell everyone be conservative and check your state's statutes.

 

[DrMikeP]

In my state the terms psychologist and related derivations are protected and are limited for use by a state licensed psychologist.

The terms psychology intern, psychology resident, and postdoctoral fellow are allowed according to position in training.

It would really suck if you used a protected term and someone brought up a board complaint against you (which in my state usually leads to being found as a minor violation of the law/rules, with the outcome being a cease and desist letter... not a big deal by itself) BUT then you would have to disclose such on future license applications, so as suggested check with your state!

 

[bcliff]

I'm thinking specifically of a faculty member at my university -- I don't know how she refers to herself, but I was in a conversation with some other students recently, and they believed that this professor could refer to herself as a "clinical psychologist" but not as a "licensed psychologist." I know that in other states where I've lived, clinicians on post-doc had to refer to themselves as "post-doctoral fellows" despite having a doctoral degree in clinical psychology, which is why I always assumed that clinical psychologist was a protected term. It might be a state specific situation, and it might be the case that since this professor is not serving in a clinical role, she can describe herself as a clinical psychologist?

 

[DrMikeP]

I'm thinking specifically of a faculty member at my university -- I don't know how she refers to herself, but I was in a conversation with some other students recently, and they believed that this professor could refer to herself as a "clinical psychologist" but not as a "licensed psychologist." I know that in other states where I've lived, clinicians on post-doc had to refer to themselves as "post-doctoral fellows" despite having a doctoral degree in clinical psychology, which is why I always assumed that clinical psychologist was a protected term. It might be a state specific situation, and it might be the case that since this professor is not serving in a clinical role, she can describe herself as a clinical psychologist?

Depends on the state and the professors degree.

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[AcronymAllergy]

Depends on the state and the professors degree.

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Yep. In the handful of states at which I've looked, they have exceptions to the protection of the term "psychologist" so that it can be used by individuals with a doctorate in psychology solely in an academic context/setting.