What's the average OD doing 2 months after graduation?

[justsomeguy11]

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Just a practical question, and I only really expect anecdotal data, but from your experience and the experience of your fellow classmates, what is the average optometry school graduate doing 2 months (you know what I mean- the near future) after graduation? About how much are they making? I know it depends, but please just give me an estimate! I'll be beginning at SUNY this fall, so I will be graduating in 2014.
Give it to me straight; if I had no real preference of location, and could move anywhere in the US following graduation, how likely or easy would it be for me to quickly secure an optometric position (commercial or private practice) paying >$60,000? Do most students start to get job offers while still in their 3rd or 4th year of school? Thanks in advance for honesty/tips!

 

[4Eyes]

It took me 2 months (plus a few days) after graduating just to get my license. (Standard here, but I don't know about every state.)

But I know what you mean. =) If you are really willing to go anywhere, I imagine you'd find a position fairly easily. It can be much more difficult if you're picky about location (which I was/am), but it's a challenge I'm willing to deal with.

Many will have jobs lined up before graduation. Many will not. Everyone gets one though, whether it's one they like or not. You will be able to pay your loans, and you will not go hungry. Finding something you find satisfying/rewarding is what can be more difficult. But again, willingness to go anywhere (geographically) does help exponentially in that department.

From what I've observed, very few have jobs lined up in their third year. Exceptions are family businesses and occasionally situations where the student already has a long-standing relationship with a practice. Almost everyone gets their job 2nd semester of 4th year (sometimes sooner) or very shortly after graduating.

 

[Mewcakes]

That is a really fantastic question. And that mostly positive response was good to hear. Is anyone else getting depressed reading the "do you regret being an OD" thread?

 

[Meibomian SxN]

Just a practical question, and I only really expect anecdotal data, but from your experience and the experience of your fellow classmates, what is the average optometry school graduate doing 2 months (you know what I mean- the near future) after graduation? About how much are they making? I know it depends, but please just give me an estimate! I'll be beginning at SUNY this fall, so I will be graduating in 2014.
Give it to me straight; if I had no real preference of location, and could move anywhere in the US following graduation, how likely or easy would it be for me to quickly secure an optometric position (commercial or private practice) paying >$60,000? Do most students start to get job offers while still in their 3rd or 4th year of school? Thanks in advance for honesty/tips!

2 months after your graduation you will be applying for your license, and other numbers" (DEA, NPI, insurance panels etc).

Few new docs will have a job lined up. Some will be readying for residencies. Some people do fill-ins when and if they can prior to finding their first job. And some will still be at home planning their new life into their career.

If I could give any REAL LIFE advice, try to enjoy the time you will have off. Obviously stay dedicated to searching different career opportunities; but also take time to LITERALLY smell the flowers. It is rare in your career that you get "time off" so spend it wisely, and not lamenting over sucky job offers, political agendas, etc. 😉

 

[peter22]

What type of jobs are generally offered to the fourth years before graduation? Also how does this happen, like is there a matching program of some sort or is it through connections? When I went to the IU interview they said something like 93+% get job offers prior to graduation.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

What type of jobs are generally offered to the fourth years before graduation? Also how does this happen, like is there a matching program of some sort or is it through connections? When I went to the IU interview they said something like 93+% get job offers prior to graduation.

Many of us started looking about 6-12months before graduation and actually calling for interviews 6months before. Many through regional societies, school business centers, AOA etc. Its good to interview early, even if just to get into the "groove of things" again. You've been in school studying for 4 years so you'll be surprised how awkward interviewing is.

Some people were following in the "family trade", some went into residencies or military, some got lucky that an OD or MD wanted a new associate, some go straight into commercial, but majority continue the search 6months-1yr after graduation.

Realize that 1st jobs are like first loves, they rarely turn into long term marriages! 😍 Its not common that someone strikes gold and lands their future career role at their first job.

93 is high but every school may be different. Good luck!

 

[4Eyes]

^^^
Great post.

Its good to interview early, even if just to get into the "groove of things" again. You've been in school studying for 4 years so you'll be surprised how awkward interviewing is.

Totally agree. My first one was so bad, haha. They didn't know for sure how they wanted to expand their practice, and I didn't know for sure if I was really into that location, so it's fine. It was still immensely helpful because everything after that was pretty much fine.

Realize that 1st jobs are like first loves, they rarely turn into long term marriages! 😍 Its not common that someone strikes gold and lands their future career role at their first job.

I was shocked at how true this is. I guess it shouldn't be that surprising, but it did surprise me.

 

[Tippytoe]

76% of you will be refracting in commercial joints 2 months after graduation. Without a license you will be working "under" the lease-holding OD. It takes a few months to just all your licensing, DEA, NPI #'s etc.....

Most of you will stay with commercial because you will be insulted with the offers you will get from private docs. Even though they will be reasonably, many of you think you 'derserve' six-figure salaries 1 day after graduation.

1 year after graduation, your $100,000 Walmart salary will be eaten up with your new Mercedes and new house payment. Then you will be STUCK in the dead end commercial world, much too afraid to venture out. You will justify your 'relationship' with ________ (fill in the blank eyeglass store), saying in the mirror, "I am good enough. I am a real doctor. People don't see the shopping carts in front of "my" office door". 🙂

About 4 % of you will find work slaving for an ophthalmologist, seeing his/her 43 vision plan patients per day for $77,000/yr but with the "prestige" of working in a "real doctor" setting. If you stay there for 5 years, you can begin speaking on the lecture circuit as an "expert" in ocular disease.

Another 4% will postpone the real world by doing a silly residency in "primary care" for a year. Your doing nothing but wasting another year and missing income.

5% of you will 'bite the bullet' and open or buy your own practice within a year of graduating. You are the smart ones. Sacrifice for a few more years to benefit for the next thirty.

11% of you will end up working for another OD with the hopes of becoming a partner one day. 90% of you will leave the relationship bitter when you realize the senior doc is not going to give you everything by year three.

Yep. That about sums it up. Good luck😀

All numbers are fictitional and for entertainment purposes only (but true pretty much).

 

[EyEnStein 07]

About 4 % of you will find work slaving for an ophthalmologist, seeing his/her 43 vision plan patients per day for $77,000/yr but with the "prestige" of working in a "real doctor" setting. If you stay there for 5 years, you can begin speaking on the lecture circuit as an "expert" in ocular disease.

Another 4% will postpone the real world by doing a silly residency in "primary care" for a year. Your doing nothing but wasting another year and missing income.

5% of you will 'bite the bullet' and open or buy your own practice within a year of graduating. You are the smart ones. Sacrifice for a few more years to benefit for the next thirty.

Do you feel this is a good option for new graduates who are just trying to get a feel for the "real world or get there feet wet"? Or if say you were a mentor, something you would not advice? Why or why not?

Would you mind just expanding on this breifly? I have heard on here multiple times that some do residencies, others do not. I have never heard it being called a "waste" so i am just curious to know why you feel this way?

Also, this question may be a little wierd i guess, but...how can a new graduate or anyone be certain that they are "ready" to open up a practice right out of optometry school? Do you feel there are things they need to learn about the profession first, or get a feel for how things are done before making such a (what i believe is) huge leap from just graduating to opening up a practice? or is it pretty straight forward and simple?

 

[RTM]

76% of you will be refracting in commercial joints 2 months after graduation. Without a license you will be working "under" the lease-holding OD. It takes a few months to just all your licensing, DEA, NPI #'s etc.....

Most of you will stay with commercial because you will be insulted with the offers you will get from private docs. Even though they will be reasonably, many of you think you 'derserve' six-figure salaries 1 day after graduation.

1 year after graduation, your $100,000 Walmart salary will be eaten up with your new Mercedes and new house payment. Then you will be STUCK in the dead end commercial world, much too afraid to venture out. You will justify your 'relationship' with ________ (fill in the blank eyeglass store), saying in the mirror, "I am good enough. I am a real doctor. People don't see the shopping carts in front of "my" office door". 🙂

About 4 % of you will find work slaving for an ophthalmologist, seeing his/her 43 vision plan patients per day for $77,000/yr but with the "prestige" of working in a "real doctor" setting. If you stay there for 5 years, you can begin speaking on the lecture circuit as an "expert" in ocular disease.

Another 4% will postpone the real world by doing a silly residency in "primary care" for a year. Your doing nothing but wasting another year and missing income.

5% of you will 'bite the bullet' and open or buy your own practice within a year of graduating. You are the smart ones. Sacrifice for a few more years to benefit for the next thirty.

11% of you will end up working for another OD with the hopes of becoming a partner one day. 90% of you will leave the relationship bitter when you realize the senior doc is not going to give you everything by year three.

Yep. That about sums it up. Good luck😀

All numbers are fictitional and for entertainment purposes only (but true pretty much).

Hmmm. . . I too would pretty much like to hear you expound on those silly wasteful residencies. I like to be entertained.

 

[Tippytoe]

Do you feel this is a good option for new graduates who are just trying to get a feel for the "real world or get there feet wet"? Or if say you were a mentor, something you would not advice? Why or why not?

Would you mind just expanding on this breifly? I have heard on here multiple times that some do residencies, others do not. I have never heard it being called a "waste" so i am just curious to know why you feel this way?

Also, this question may be a little wierd i guess, but...how can a new graduate or anyone be certain that they are "ready" to open up a practice right out of optometry school? Do you feel there are things they need to learn about the profession first, or get a feel for how things are done before making such a (what i believe is) huge leap from just graduating to opening up a practice? or is it pretty straight forward and simple?

There is certainly nothing wrong with working with an ophthalmologist. I have done so briefly, in addtion to working at a VA hospital, worked with another private OD, filled in commercial and even have done nursing home work. So I do feel like I have a good grasp. Private practice, as difficult as it is, offers the best long-term income and security. At least now. Who knows what the future holds.

I say there is nothing wrong with working with an ophthalmologist because it is certainly better than working for one. I've found most ophthalmologist opportunities to be just that......a subordinate role roughly equal to that of ophthalmic tech and optician. There are equal 'partnership' arrangments but they are far and few in between. It is however, a great learning opportunity as most OD school set us up thinking an hour long eye exam is the norm in the real world. OMDs will teach you how to delegate in a way OD professors can only dream about.

I only say residencies are a waste of time because they really do not train ODs to do anything special. They are just OJT. Many consider them a 5th year of OD school. Nothing wrong with that but you might as well get a job in an ophthalmologist or busy ODs practice for a year and learn while getting paid well. The problem is, and this is unfortunate, that no one on earth will care that you did a residency. Patients will not. Insurance companies will not. Colleagues will not. It might help if you plan on going back to school to teach.

I opened cold right out of school. The benefit (or drawback, whichever way you view it) is that you will have PLENTY of time as a new doc in a new office to moonlight all over the place. You can work in our own office 3-4 half days per week and work other places during the other times. So you learn while doing and begin building equity from day one. Also it is much more difficult to drop everything and go back to a $20,000 salary 5 years out to open your own place.

P.S. I like the colored fonts 😀

 

[RTM]

I only say residencies are a waste of time because they really do not train ODs to do anything special. They are just OJT. Many consider them a 5th year of OD school. Nothing wrong with that but you might as well get a job in an ophthalmologist or busy ODs practice for a year and learn while getting paid well. The problem is, and this is unfortunate, that no one on earth will care that you did a residency. Patients will not. Insurance companies will not. Colleagues will not. It might help if you plan on going back to school to teach.

From the point of view of a private practitioner, I can understand your statement regarding residencies. You are correct, as a resident you don't get trained to do anything special. You get trained to do what a full scope optometrist does and do it well. Also, residencies give residents an opportunity to work with instrumentation that is not always available in private or corporate offices. OCT technology is quite important to the future of eyecare. Not all OD's have this technology or are comfortable using it, for example.

I disagree with your statement that the experience in a OMD or busy OD office will give anything approximating a residency. Residency is a mentored educational experience framed in the context of learning wherein the resident can and is expected to make mistakes. I don't believe that the OMD or busy OD practice would provide this learning opportunity. Also, residency is a way to open doors to modes of practice outside the private and corporate arenas. Many VA hospitals recruit almost exclusively from their resident pool making these jobs out of reach for those without residencies. In many cases, if you want a certain VA position, you need a residency.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Not everyone is happy in their private practice.

 

[eyegirl23]

I know this is a little off topic, but I was wondering if planning to have a baby right after graduation sounds like a good idea? There is a 6 month grace period on loans, and most people have to wait to get licensed anyway, so it sounds like an ideal time.

Although, the drawbacks would be not having any experience outside of school externships when looking for your first position, and possibly delivering early and delaying graduation. Does anyone know someone who did this and has regrets?

 

[EyEnStein 07]

There is certainly nothing wrong with working with an ophthalmologist. I have done so briefly, in addtion to working at a VA hospital, worked with another private OD, filled in commercial and even have done nursing home work. So I do feel like I have a good grasp. Private practice, as difficult as it is, offers the best long-term income and security. At least now. Who knows what the future holds.

I say there is nothing wrong with working with an ophthalmologist because it is certainly better than working for one. I've found most ophthalmologist opportunities to be just that......a subordinate role roughly equal to that of ophthalmic tech and optician. There are equal 'partnership' arrangments but they are far and few in between. It is however, a great learning opportunity as most OD school set us up thinking an hour long eye exam is the norm in the real world. OMDs will teach you how to delegate in a way OD professors can only dream about.

I only say residencies are a waste of time because they really do not train ODs to do anything special. They are just OJT. Many consider them a 5th year of OD school. Nothing wrong with that but you might as well get a job in an ophthalmologist or busy ODs practice for a year and learn while getting paid well. The problem is, and this is unfortunate, that no one on earth will care that you did a residency. Patients will not. Insurance companies will not. Colleagues will not. It might help if you plan on going back to school to teach.

I opened cold right out of school. The benefit (or drawback, whichever way you view it) is that you will have PLENTY of time as a new doc in a new office to moonlight all over the place. You can work in our own office 3-4 half days per week and work other places during the other times. So you learn while doing and begin building equity from day one. Also it is much more difficult to drop everything and go back to a $20,000 salary 5 years out to open your own place.

P.S. I like the colored fonts 😀

haha, thanks. Color coded in darker colors, so it may be easier for you to respond to each separately.

How difficult would you say it was to be working "3 - 4 half days per week" and having other jobs. Were your other jobs enough to compensate for the expenses you had opening and maintaining your practice?

Either way, i appreciate those comments you made. Would you mind me asking what State you practice? If you do mind, i can PM you if you feel more comfortable that way.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

...I only say residencies are a waste of time because they really do not train ODs to do anything special. They are just OJT. Many consider them a 5th year of OD school. Nothing wrong with that but you might as well get a job in an ophthalmologist or busy ODs practice for a year and learn while getting paid well.

Residencies build confidence most importantly. Some students select excellent externships which challenge them and give them the real world experience in the profession. Many students will not have the confidence level of treating all anterior/posterior diseases, being familiar with all soft & hard contact lens technologies, new IOLs, low vision patients, etc.

So residencies are definitely more than a "5th year", unless they chose a bad residency.

 

[Tippytoe]

From the point of view of a private practitioner, I can understand your statement regarding residencies. You are correct, as a resident you don't get trained to do anything special. You get trained to do what a full scope optometrist does and do it well. Also, residencies give residents an opportunity to work with instrumentation that is not always available in private or corporate offices. OCT technology is quite important to the future of eyecare. Not all OD's have this technology or are comfortable using it, for example.

I disagree with your statement that the experience in a OMD or busy OD office will give anything approximating a residency. Residency is a mentored educational experience framed in the context of learning wherein the resident can and is expected to make mistakes. I don't believe that the OMD or busy OD practice would provide this learning opportunity. Also, residency is a way to open doors to modes of practice outside the private and corporate arenas. Many VA hospitals recruit almost exclusively from their resident pool making these jobs out of reach for those without residencies. In many cases, if you want a certain VA position, you need a residency.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Not everyone is happy in their private practice.

I have no arguments with what your saying. Again, I didn't mean to demean residencies as a whole. But still, I do not think they are nearly as valuable as some claim them to be.

As far as working in the VA system, I've done a bit of that. And I have to say it was by far one of the most restricting places I've been. Zero
co-mangement and under the thumb of ophthalmology more than any other place I've been. Probably just where I was located.

Your point is well taken though. And it's one of the big problems in optometry training. That is, the lack of a multitude of patient encounters. So unless your extremely lucky (or smart enough to seek out outstanding extern sites), you may well graduate having only seen a handful of 'difficult' cases.

So I guess my point with residencies is that, while it may make you a bit more experienced and well-rounded initially (if you get one away from an OD school), it doesn't do much to further your career with a few exceptions. The same can be said for fellowship in the Academy (which I am one).

Finally, much as small business is the backbone of our country's economic system, private practice is the backbone of optometry. Private and commercial practice probably account for 95% of OD jobs (with the rest being in the military and VA and such).

And for the record, I would not advise any OD student to spent another year doing a residency. I just don't see a need in it. It's a years worth of lost income when the student will already owe over $100,000. Time to start paying Sallie-Mae.😳

Just my opinion.

 

[Tippytoe]

haha, thanks. Color coded in darker colors, so it may be easier for you to respond to each separately.

How difficult would you say it was to be working "3 - 4 half days per week" and having other jobs. Were your other jobs enough to compensate for the expenses you had opening and maintaining your practice?

Either way, i appreciate those comments you made. Would you mind me asking what State you practice? If you do mind, i can PM you if you feel more comfortable that way.

It's not difficult to work outside the office while building up your own. You might only being seeing 5-10 patient per week in the beginning. You'll have time to work at Lenscrafters, Walmart, a nursing home and around the neighborhood mowing lawns and painting houses (loan payments are a bitch and the gov't will have their hand out at every turn......... $63,000 in just payroll taxes alone last year for the office...

......$1,400 ransom to Officemate every year just to keep your software running.........$75 fee to the fire department to come and "inspect" your fire extingisher every year....

......accountant gets about $400/month...........It's $700/month for telephone and internet (which you must have to file insurance.......they charge businesses 2 to 3 times as much as homes....not to mention my health insurance in a $6,000 deductible HSA is still $800/month and going up about $100 per year for my family.

It's all good though. VSP pays me $63 for an exam. Unfortuately my wife spends $80 at the high school drop out hairdresser 😳

But it's not all doom and gloom. I still live a good life.

 

[IndianaOD]

Here goes.

I think OD residencies should be mandatory. I think all students could benefit greatly. I do think the "primary care" residencies are a little questionable. Most take place at higher volume locations with great technology and good docs.

I externed at the Huntington, WV VA. The ODs there were very good and there were no staff OMDs so the ODs did absolutely everything except invasive surgery. Some of those guys are SMART!

If our office gets big enough to ever have another OD I would honestly give more consideration to a residency trained OD.

 

[4Eyes]

I know this is a little off topic, but I was wondering if planning to have a baby right after graduation sounds like a good idea? There is a 6 month grace period on loans, and most people have to wait to get licensed anyway, so it sounds like an ideal time.

Although, the drawbacks would be not having any experience outside of school externships when looking for your first position, and possibly delivering early and delaying graduation. Does anyone know someone who did this and has regrets?

I have a friend from school who had a baby in July (maybe late June?) after graduation. She also opened her own practice cold after that, and now she's doing quite well. That's just one anecdote, but there are a lot of people with the same sort of mindset. Might help if your spouse has an income too just in case the timing doesn't work out exactly as you plan/hope.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

I do think the "primary care" residencies are a little questionable. Most take place at higher volume locations with great technology and good docs.

If our office gets big enough to ever have another OD I would honestly give more consideration to a residency trained OD.

Sorry if the answer to this question might seem obvious, but why do you say primary care residencies are questionable? I was always under the impression (from what i have read about residencies in general) that whereas low vision, ocular disease, and contact lenses are 3 seperate residencies, something such as primary care is a mix of them all. Wouldnt that in a sense mean that a person doing a P.C residency is benefiting overall from exposure to "all types of cases"? Also, if i made a mistake in what i said, please do correct me.

Is the reason you would give more consideration to a residency trained OD because you feel you would not have to answer as many questions or something (im assuming your hypothetically hiring a new grad) and make your job easier as a whole? Or other reasons not related?

 

[RTM]

Here goes.

I think OD residencies should be mandatory. I think all students could benefit greatly. I do think the "primary care" residencies are a little questionable. Most take place at higher volume locations with great technology and good docs.

I externed at the Huntington, WV VA. The ODs there were very good and there were no staff OMDs so the ODs did absolutely everything except invasive surgery. Some of those guys are SMART!

If our office gets big enough to ever have another OD I would honestly give more consideration to a residency trained OD.

👍 Bravo!

 

[RTM]

And for the record, I would not advise any OD student to spent another year doing a residency. I just don't see a need in it. It's a years worth of lost income when the student will already owe over $100,000. Time to start paying Sallie-Mae.😳

Just my opinion.

We pay our resident nearly 50K with 2 weeks of paid leave. I'd be curious to know how that stacks up for a first year in PP while also working on the side. And, our residents leave with a great clinical education/mentored experience. And for those who seek out a clinical position, we offer loan forgiveness at 20K/year until loans are paid off. I never gave a dime to Sallie.

Peace.

 

[IndianaOD]

Sorry if the answer to this question might seem obvious, but why do you say primary care residencies are questionable? I was always under the impression (from what i have read about residencies in general) that whereas low vision, ocular disease, and contact lenses are 3 seperate residencies, something such as primary care is a mix of them all. Wouldnt that in a sense mean that a person doing a P.C residency is benefiting overall from exposure to "all types of cases"? Also, if i made a mistake in what i said, please do correct me.

Is the reason you would give more consideration to a residency trained OD because you feel you would not have to answer as many questions or something (im assuming your hypothetically hiring a new grad) and make your job easier as a whole? Or other reasons not related?

Residency trained ODs are more confident IMHO. They refer out less and take better care of their patients. I would also assume that their time management might be better since most sites are quite busy.

 

[Tippytoe]

For clarification purposes only:

For MDs, a residency (3+ years) is a venue to acquire additional skills and certification to practice at an enhanced level (retina specialist, glaucoma specialist, Ped specialist, oculoplastic specialist, etc...). These residencies allow the MD to become a 'real specialist' in the minds of colleagues and patients with an ability to do more than a general OMD would usually do..........along with increased income usually.

For ODs, residency (1 year) is simply an extra year to gain more basic clinical skills (certainly nothing wrong with that). It does not elevate the OD in anyone's mind other than their own. There is no increased income potential and no enhanced ability to perform any additional procedures or techniques not already available to the general OD.

That is the just of what I've been trying to say, I guess. OD 'residencies' are not the same as what is commonly defined in medical terms.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

Residency trained ODs are more confident IMHO. They refer out less and take better care of their patients. I would also assume that their time management might be better since most sites are quite busy.

I see, as i have no knowledge about a residency, is it just the practice and experience of seeing patients over and over again in a variety of cases that brings upon this confidence and time management skill?

Or is it actually learning something from the more seasoned optometrists whether it be techniques they acquire from them or looking to the optometrists as mentors for help and advice?

 

[RTM]

For clarification purposes only:

For MDs, a residency (3+ years) is a venue to acquire additional skills and certification to practice at an enhanced level (retina specialist, glaucoma specialist, Ped specialist, oculoplastic specialist, etc...). These residencies allow the MD to become a 'real specialist' in the minds of colleagues and patients with an ability to do more than a general OMD would usually do..........along with increased income usually.

For ODs, residency (1 year) is simply an extra year to gain more basic clinical skills (certainly nothing wrong with that). It does not elevate the OD in anyone's mind other than their own. There is no increased income potential and no enhanced ability to perform any additional procedures or techniques not already available to the general OD.

That is the just of what I've been trying to say, I guess. OD 'residencies' are not the same as what is commonly defined in medical terms.

False. Ophthalmology residency is to medically specialized in Ophthalmology. Fellowship is for retina, cornea, glaucoma, etc.

Why do you continually bring up income? Is that what motivates you? It is obvious you know nothing about residency. True there is not increased income potential. Not everyone is solely motivated by that.

There are, in fact, opportunities to enhance one's ability to perform additional procedures. When's the last time you took our your scleral depressor? Do you have an OCT in your office? Reading OCTs is not always easy. I would contend that it takes enhanced ability to become proficient at managing patients utilizing that technology. Those are just two examples. Yes, the general PP OD can practice to the scope of their state law, but most don't. Optometry school rotations do not adequately prepare us for full scope clinical practice. That is a fact.

I mean no disrespect but, put the average OD in our resident's room for one day and they would be sweating bullets the size of VWs! That is also a fact.

Peace.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

I see, as i have no knowledge about a residency, is it just the practice and experience of seeing patients over and over again in a variety of cases that brings upon this confidence and time management skill?

Or is it actually learning something from the more seasoned optometrists whether it be techniques they acquire from them or looking to the optometrists as mentors for help and advice?

A good residency offers both.

 

[Tippytoe]

False. Ophthalmology residency is to medically specialized in Ophthalmology. Fellowship is for retina, cornea, glaucoma, etc.

Why do you continually bring up income? Is that what motivates you? It is obvious you know nothing about residency. True there is not increased income potential. Not everyone is solely motivated by that.

There are, in fact, opportunities to enhance one's ability to perform additional procedures. When's the last time you took our your scleral depressor? Do you have an OCT in your office? Reading OCTs is not always easy. I would contend that it takes enhanced ability to become proficient at managing patients utilizing that technology. Those are just two examples. Yes, the general PP OD can practice to the scope of their state law, but most don't. Optometry school rotations do not adequately prepare us for full scope clinical practice. That is a fact.

I mean no disrespect but, put the average OD in our resident's room for one day and they would be sweating bullets the size of VWs! That is also a fact.

Peace.

Scleral depressor? What's a scleral depressor? You mean one of those long stick thingies?

Give me a break. Don't be so arrogant man. You think only a residency-trained OD uses a scleral depressor. You think average ODs don't look at the peripheral retina. Good grief man! We are ALL trained in OD school to use depressors.

It's true, I mis-spoke. OMDs will do a residency followed by fellowships in various specialities.

I:
- have a large private practice
- own my own large building
- am a fellow of the American Academy of Optometry
- have an OCT
- corneal topography
- b-scan
- had a NAFL camera up until it broke a few years ago and have the ability to do procedures via state board allowance (in NC).
- electronic medical records
- automated visual fields
- automated/integrated refracting equipment
- have a large medical patient base
- write for prominent optometry journals
- teach eye care at a physician assistant's school
- have externs in my office
- Do consulting work

All of this without a residency. Amazing, huh? Seems those that have done a little residency have a bit of a superiority complex while they make a living working for someone else. Please don't act like you residency-trained folks are practicing at a higher level. It just isn't so.

Would anything have been different for me had I done a residency. Nope. Don't think so. I would have just got started building my dreams a year later, that's all. I was very fortunate to have done 2 great externships where I had access to great medical type eye training. I feel sorry for those that go to a 1965-type private practice and then a Walmart or something, spending all their time refracting -2.00 myopes. Here I think a residency would be extremely valuable (again if you get a good one).

I'm done. I think I've got my point across. Do a residency. Don't do a residency. Doesn't matter to me. Just know the facts. A year's worth of supervised practice is not bad for anyone, especially those not secure in what they are doing upon graduation. It's true some OD schools and students don't get access to enough patient encounters. Many, like me, end up doing alot of learning on their own. I'm all for more training. Go for it.

 

[IndianaOD]

Scleral depressor? What's a scleral depressor? You mean one of those long stick thingies?

Give me a break. Don't be so arrogant man. You think only a residency-trained OD uses a scleral depressor. You think average ODs don't look at the peripheral retina. Good grief man! We are ALL trained in OD school to use depressors.

It's true, I mis-spoke. OMDs will do a residency followed by fellowships in various specialities.

I:
- have a large private practice
- own my own large building
- am a fellow of the American Academy of Optometry
- have an OCT
- corneal topography
- b-scan
- had a NAFL camera up until it broke a few years ago and have the ability to do procedures via state board allowance (in NC).
- electronic medical records
- automated visual fields
- automated/integrated refracting equipment
- have a large medical patient base
- write for prominent optometry journals
- teach eye care at a physician assistant's school
- have externs in my office
- Do consulting work

All of this without a residency. Amazing, huh? Seems those that have done a little residency have a bit of a superiority complex while they make a living working for someone else. Please don't act like you residency-trained folks are practicing at a higher level. It just isn't so.

Would anything have been different for me had I done a residency. Nope. Don't think so. I would have just got started building my dreams a year later, that's all. I was very fortunate to have done 2 great externships where I had access to great medical type eye training. I feel sorry for those that go to a 1965-type private practice and then a Walmart or something, spending all their time refracting -2.00 myopes. Here I think a residency would be extremely valuable (again if you get a good one).

I'm done. I think I've got my point across. Do a residency. Don't do a residency. Doesn't matter to me. Just know the facts. A year's worth of supervised practice is not bad for anyone, especially those not secure in what they are doing upon graduation. It's true some OD schools and students don't get access to enough patient encounters. Many, like me, end up doing alot of learning on their own. I'm all for more training. Go for it.

I believe ON AVERAGE a residency trained OD practices at a higher level. This isn't always true. You are lucky to be an NC OD. A state which keeps OD supply numbers artificially low.

 

[RTM]

I'm done. I think I've got my point across. Do a residency. Don't do a residency. Doesn't matter to me. Just know the facts. A year's worth of supervised practice is not bad for anyone, especially those not secure in what they are doing upon graduation. It's true some OD schools and students don't get access to enough patient encounters. Many, like me, end up doing alot of learning on their own. I'm all for more training. Go for it.

I think we agree on more than we realize.

I certainly am not arrogant. Simply honest without sugar coated posts. . . If you take the time to reread my posts, you'll see a surprising amount of honesty and little arrogance. I don't recall taking issue with anything except your strong statement regarding residency.

Peace.

 

[LionSight]

I know this is a little off topic, but I was wondering if planning to have a baby right after graduation sounds like a good idea? There is a 6 month grace period on loans, and most people have to wait to get licensed anyway, so it sounds like an ideal time.

Although, the drawbacks would be not having any experience outside of school externships when looking for your first position, and possibly delivering early and delaying graduation. Does anyone know someone who did this and has regrets?

While it is completely possible to have a baby immediately and do well, there are a few things to consider.

#1 Your current school is probably much more likely to be supportive and assisting throughout pregnacy and delivery than "the real world." I know of several girls (including myself oops!!!) that have discovered themselves to be expecting at various times during the first 3 years. It might be wise to look at your courseloads and try to have a baby when you still have deferrment for loans and/or could apply for medical hardship leave if you were to be put on bedrest.

#2 Although no one likes to think that pregnancy complications can happen to them, a very dear friend of mine was forced to sell her once-thriving practice after experiencing an especially difficult pregnancy. When finally able to return to work, the financial hit was unrecoverable.

There is so much to consider when weighing family options. Look at all the pros and cons and go for the one that feels right to you!

 

[meameame12]

76% of you will be refracting in commercial joints 2 months after graduation. Without a license you will be working "under" the lease-holding OD. It takes a few months to just all your licensing, DEA, NPI #'s etc.....

Most of you will stay with commercial because you will be insulted with the offers you will get from private docs. Even though they will be reasonably, many of you think you 'derserve' six-figure salaries 1 day after graduation.

1 year after graduation, your $100,000 Walmart salary will be eaten up with your new Mercedes and new house payment. Then you will be STUCK in the dead end commercial world, much too afraid to venture out. You will justify your 'relationship' with ________ (fill in the blank eyeglass store), saying in the mirror, "I am good enough. I am a real doctor. People don't see the shopping carts in front of "my" office door". 🙂

About 4 % of you will find work slaving for an ophthalmologist, seeing his/her 43 vision plan patients per day for $77,000/yr but with the "prestige" of working in a "real doctor" setting. If you stay there for 5 years, you can begin speaking on the lecture circuit as an "expert" in ocular disease.

Another 4% will postpone the real world by doing a silly residency in "primary care" for a year. Your doing nothing but wasting another year and missing income.

5% of you will 'bite the bullet' and open or buy your own practice within a year of graduating. You are the smart ones. Sacrifice for a few more years to benefit for the next thirty.

11% of you will end up working for another OD with the hopes of becoming a partner one day. 90% of you will leave the relationship bitter when you realize the senior doc is not going to give you everything by year three.

Yep. That about sums it up. Good luck😀

All numbers are fictitional and for entertainment purposes only (but true pretty much).

👍 Ha! wow, I loved this post! You hit every point right on! I, unfortunately, have become victim to the corporate chain and am subleasing through LensCrafters. I have 3 locations, and although the gross figures look great on paper, the reality is that I am still pretty much just getting by (due to very high overhead)! I really wished I had the guts (and funds) to open up my own practice. I am seriously considering selling all 3 practices and purchasing a REAL private practice with an optical. It's sad that 7 years after graduation I am still not doing that well...maybe this whole career is doomed. 🙁

 

[dontlikephysics]

Do any current ODs mind telling me what state they work in? I saw that a few of you (TippyToe and I think 4Eyes) have your own private practice. For those of you that have your own pp, how long did it take you to start that up? Thanks in advance.

 

[4Eyes]

I can't really answer your question here because I need to maintain anonymity in case some things change with my work situation. =/ But I don't have my own private practice anyway. I work AT a private practice part time, but I didn't start it up myself. The rest of the time I work at a smaller retail optical place. (The goal was/is to increase my time at the private practice and phase out of the retail place, but that's a tangent for another thread.) I have certain gripes with both places. I did what I felt was the best I could with the information I had...and knowing I wanted to live in an already-saturated community (err...I didn't want to live somewhere saturated, but the city I stubbornly wanted to call "home" just happens to be saturated). As for my state, it's like many states...largely saturated except for the very rural areas. And some of those are saturated too.