What's the difference between vet schools?

[Rycon]

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Hi,

I'm currently a junior in high school, thinking about becoming a veterinarian. There's not very many vet schools in the country, and I know the online rankings are meaningless, so is there a difference in what they teach? How do you choose? A degree at any one of them should prepare you for whatever work you decide to do as a veterinarian, right?

Personally, I'm interested in companion animals, exotics, and wildlife. I want to be able to treat all kinds of animals, including horses and livestock, but if I become a vet, I don't want to be a livestock veterinarian. I also want nothing to do with animal research. I know it's necessary to create new lifesaving medicine, I just don't want to be a part of it. I wouldn't enjoy what I did at all if I did that. I want to save animals, not be the cause for their suffering.

Anyways, I don't know if this is a naive question to ask, but anything back would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Ashgirl]

Most people on here (and elsewhere as well) will tell you that cost should be your driving factor. Your In-State school will usually be the cheapest, and while an 100,000-200,000 difference between schools doesn't seem like a lot, with interest that difference can be astronomical. Some other factors include location, curriculum (all lectures/ or PBL), early clinics/hands-on, and atmosphere/fit.

Regardless of minor differences between schools, if the school is accredited it will give you a good, standard education all-around.

 

[that redhead]

I want to save animals, not be the cause for their suffering.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that as a junior in high school you've had zero exposure to animals used in research, aside from what the media portrays. You don't have to want to do research, or be a lab animal vet, but you do need to have an accurate understanding of what animal use for research and teaching entails. Blindly assuming they're all being tortured behind closed doors is not only wrong, it will actively harm your application to vet school, as an understanding between the difference animals rights and animal welfare is a huge deal in vet med.

As for vet schools, the big differences are cost and location. They'll al prepare you to be a vet.

 

[ameropean_chelsea]

Also bear in mind that not all research results in pain to animals. Since you say you are interested in wildlife, I'd recommend looking into ecology and behavioral research. In those fields you're learning about animals in their natural environments and their physical behaviors, mental capacities, inter-species relationships, and so much more.

 

[vt15]

I'm going to go ahead and assume that as a junior in high school you've had zero exposure to animals used in research, aside from what the media portrays. You don't have to want to do research, or be a lab animal vet, but you do need to have an accurate understanding of what animal use for research and teaching entails. Blindly assuming they're all being tortured behind closed doors is not only wrong, it will actively harm your application to vet school, as an understanding between the difference animals rights and animal welfare is a huge deal in vet med.

As for vet schools, the big differences are cost and location. They'll al prepare you to be a vet.

what would you say is the main difference?

 

[DVMDream]

what would you say is the main difference?

The biggest difference: Name of the school.... 😛

Second biggest: Cost. It is really important. If you can get cheap in-state tuition somewhere, it is well worth it.

Third biggest: Location, some are in bigger cities and others are in small towns. Be sure you can handle living in the area for 4 years.

After that, they are all the same: Pure torture.

 

[derwent2052]

what would you say is the main difference?

R(D)SVS did a great MOOC (free online course) about animal behaviour and welfare, very nice introduction to the area, highly recommend checking it out if you'd like to learn more.
https://www.coursera.org/course/animal It's free, do at your own pace, over a few weeks, and you can get a little certificate of completion at the end. I did it in the summer, was very enjoyable and informative.
The school also has a 'Do you have what it takes to be a vet?' one which is basically just an intro to vet med which was also very nicely done, goes over various topics you learn in the first year of vet school. I took this one last summer as well and really enjoyed it, you might as well 🙂 https://www.coursera.org/course/edivet

For your main q, everyone's had some good suggestions so far. Some schools have different types of teaching, like Western does problem based learning, RDSVS where I'm at has a lot of early hands on stuff and actively try to connect clinical relevance to our preclinical learning, which I've really appreciated. If you poke around various schools you can see what things they emphasise, what their teaching structure is like, etc. Very important too though as people mentioned above are things like in state, out of state, costs, where you would like to live, etcetc.
Good luck!

 

[dyachei]

what would you say is the main difference?

animal rights typically indicates that you think animals should have the same rights as people. This means at extreme levels that having pets limits their freedom (yes, PeTA believes this). Animal welfare believes that animals should have freedom from suffering, should have food/water/basic needs, and humane treatment.

 

[StartingoverVet]

After that, they are all the same: Pure torture.

I actually disagree with this (not the pure torture part, that is accurate). I think there are LOTS of differences between schools, and I think they are fairly large, but they are not always easy to pin down, but from reading everyone's experiences over the years, I think they really matter.

We should probably revive the pros/cons thread from a few years back and keep that active.

For example: Some schools have mandatory attendance. That would honestly be a no-go item for me.
Some schools record lectures, some don't.

Some schools are big on multiple choice exams.
Some schools have an integrated curriculum, or case method, or some are mostly didactic lectures.

Some schools work you longer hours in clinical years, some have more reasonable set-ups.

Some schools start classes at 8am😱

Some of this might matter to some people, and not to others.

I REALLY don't believe everyone gets the same education at vet school. I think it wildly varies, but that doesn't mean that one is better than the other, just different, and those difference may be meaningless to some, but may matter to others.

So if location and cost don't matter as much to you for some reason, these other factors can be VERY important.

 

[LetItSnow]

I REALLY don't believe everyone gets the same education at vet school. I think it wildly varies, but that doesn't mean that one is better than the other, just different, and those difference may be meaningless to some, but may matter to others.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "wildly", but ... that seems a pretty strong choice of words to me. All the schools are basically teaching to the same exam (NAVLE), so they can't vary "wildly". Maybe you mean it differently, though.

I've met a lot of students from a lot of schools, and while we all get somewhat differing educations, I'm pretty comfortable saying that it's closer to the 'same' than it is 'wildly varying'. When I start to work a case with an island student here on clinics, we sure all seem to go at it the same way.

I agree that there are differences, the significance of which will vary from person to person based on their priorities.

That said - I don't think paying $100,000 more to go to a PBL school (for example) is worth it no matter how much better someone thinks they might learn there. It's just too much more of a hole to be in. Better off to take a second or third choice school for you, start out with less debt, and do your problem-based learning with, well, real-life problem cases.

I still think that cost is the most rational top differentiating factor for a prospective student to consider. But I agree that it's not the only factor. In the lists of pros/cons for each school, cost should carry a lot of weight compared to other factors. Something like location (can you stand the cold up here? can you stand the rural of some schools? are you someone who really needs to be near family? etc) probably should carry middling weight. And all that other stuff: m/c exams, mandatory attendance, recording lectures ... is low-weight stuff. I don't think it's rational to give 'cost' and 'multiple-choice exams' equal weighting when considering where to attend.

I agree that everyone has different values for the different factors. But I think it would be good for some people to take an objective look at how much those factors should rationally matter, rather than giving them equal weight to factors (i.e. cost) that are going to follow them for a lot longer than the 4 years they are in school.

On the flip side, if you have millions stashed in the bank .... sure, cost isn't important. But that's not the reality for the majority of students.

 

[KCgophervet]

I also want nothing to do with animal research. I know it's necessary to create new lifesaving medicine, I just don't want to be a part of it. I wouldn't enjoy what I did at all if I did that. I want to save animals, not be the cause for their suffering.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that as a junior in high school you've had zero exposure to animals used in research, aside from what the media portrays.

Going off of what @that redhead said, you should really do some ... looking into ... the field before you make blanket statements like that. From what I've seen (and I've been pursuing this route for about 6 years now so I've seen a bit) most of the time the lab animal vet's job is exactly the opposite of what you described. All that suffering you're picturing? It's the vet's job to make sure it doesn't happen and to reduce it if/when it does. Honestly that's one of the things that drew me towards lab animal medicine - seeing the vets ensure the well being of the animals being used in research.

 

[bbeventer]

ere are differences, the significance of which will vary from person to person based on their priorities.

That said - I don't think paying $100,000 more to go to a PBL school (for example) is worth it no matter how much better someone thinks they might learn there. It's just too much more of a hole to be in. Better off to take a second or third choice school for you, start out with less debt, and do your problem-based learning with, well, real-life problem cases.

.

PBL is not what it is cracked up to be either. We have a a clinical problems hour, and some professors like to set that up on a PBL format, and it is absolutely horrible. I honestly don't know how people learn that way for their whole vet school careers.

 

[LetItSnow]

PBL is not what it is cracked up to be either. We have a a clinical problems hour, and some professors like to set that up on a PBL format, and it is absolutely horrible. I honestly don't know how people learn that way for their whole vet school careers.

Yeah, I dunno, I'm not at a PBL-based school. The ones that are pure PBL are pretty ... tightly controlled, I think. The cases they work are designed around exploring specific teaching topics, I imagine, in order to make sure it covers everything required. It's not like it's just random cases picked by a clinician who think they might be interesting. At least, I assume.

They have been incorporating more PBL into our curriculum, bit-by-bit. Some of it is done really well, and I've learned a lot. Some of it is ... well, an awfully inefficient waste of time.

So from what little I've been exposed to I feel like it could be done well (and I presume is being done well at schools where that's the dominant mode of learning, because by all reports those students seem to come out just fine) or could be really crappy. Thing is .... if you have to pay a lot extra for it .... I don't see that as money well spent.

Ultimately, 4th year is all about PBL. So really, we all go through it.

 

[StartingoverVet]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "wildly", but ... that seems a pretty strong choice of words to me. All the schools are basically teaching to the same exam (NAVLE), so they can't vary "wildly". Maybe you mean it differently, though.

I've met a lot of students from a lot of schools, and while we all get somewhat differing educations, I'm pretty comfortable saying that it's closer to the 'same' than it is 'wildly varying'. When I start to work a case with an island student here on clinics, we sure all seem to go at it the same way.

I agree that there are differences, the significance of which will vary from person to person based on their priorities.

That said - I don't think paying $100,000 more to go to a PBL school (for example) is worth it no matter how much better someone thinks they might learn there. It's just too much more of a hole to be in. Better off to take a second or third choice school for you, start out with less debt, and do your problem-based learning with, well, real-life problem cases.

I still think that cost is the most rational top differentiating factor for a prospective student to consider. But I agree that it's not the only factor. In the lists of pros/cons for each school, cost should carry a lot of weight compared to other factors. Something like location (can you stand the cold up here? can you stand the rural of some schools? are you someone who really needs to be near family? etc) probably should carry middling weight. And all that other stuff: m/c exams, mandatory attendance, recording lectures ... is low-weight stuff. I don't think it's rational to give 'cost' and 'multiple-choice exams' equal weighting when considering where to attend.

I agree that everyone has different values for the different factors. But I think it would be good for some people to take an objective look at how much those factors should rationally matter, rather than giving them equal weight to factors (i.e. cost) that are going to follow them for a lot longer than the 4 years they are in school.

On the flip side, if you have millions stashed in the bank .... sure, cost isn't important. But that's not the reality for the majority of students.

You are focusing on the end result, I am focusing on the process of getting there.
We are not disagreeing.

and OT: I hope most schools are not really teaching "to the NAVLE". That would be sad.

 

[DVMDream]

I actually disagree with this (not the pure torture part, that is accurate). I think there are LOTS of differences between schools, and I think they are fairly large, but they are not always easy to pin down, but from reading everyone's experiences over the years, I think they really matter.

We should probably revive the pros/cons thread from a few years back and keep that active.

For example: Some schools have mandatory attendance. That would honestly be a no-go item for me.
Some schools record lectures, some don't.

Some schools are big on multiple choice exams.
Some schools have an integrated curriculum, or case method, or some are mostly didactic lectures.

Some schools work you longer hours in clinical years, some have more reasonable set-ups.

Some schools start classes at 8am😱

Some of this might matter to some people, and not to others.

I REALLY don't believe everyone gets the same education at vet school. I think it wildly varies, but that doesn't mean that one is better than the other, just different, and those difference may be meaningless to some, but may matter to others.

So if location and cost don't matter as much to you for some reason, these other factors can be VERY important.

You largely missed my point.

 

[StartingoverVet]

You largely missed my point.

no. i agreed with it. Just wanted to make a different point. 😵

 

[DVMDream]

no. i agreed with it. Just wanted to make a different point. 😵

This isn't fitting in with my totally non serious, half joking post. 😉

 

[LetItSnow]

You are focusing on the end result, I am focusing on the process of getting there.
We are not disagreeing.

and OT: I hope most schools are not really teaching "to the NAVLE". That would be sad.

I think they have to teach to the NAVLE - one of the accreditation requirements requires a certain pass rate.

And, accreditation spells out all of the things that a school has to do - so they can't vary wildly in their curriculum; they all have to have a core set of components. And that core takes up virtually all of the time available. So by default all the schools generally cover the same info. There's some variation in how they do it, but .... it's not really that much, I think.

 

[beatles1964]

As others have said, cost and location are definitely 2 very important factors to consider when looking at vet schools. After that, you need to look at the individual program. Schools vary in their approaches, but most are still AVMA accredited regardless. Some schools use a problem-based learning format, which is a definitely a unique contrast to traditional "all lecture all the time" education. Some schools are structured differently when it comes to traditional lectures and didactic/clinical coursework (Mizzou has a 2+2 year accelerated curriculum, meaning you have 2 years of lectures and 2 years of clinics... many schools have a 3+1 year traditional curriculum). I would also consider applying to schools that have programs that suit your interests. For example, some schools do not have much to offer when it comes to exotics but others do, or some have incredible equine facilities or are known mostly for their small animal facilities. Others offer a good mix of areas. Some schools are very willing to work with you to land preceptorships/rotations off site in an area you're interested in if they do not have the facilities on site. You can also look at NAVLE pass rate statistics to compare schools. Or you can visit schools or post on class pages here on SDN to ask current students what they do/don't like about their schools to help you form your own opinions. You still have a lot of time, but it's good you're starting to familiarize yourself with schools now.

 

[DVMDream]

I REALLY don't believe everyone gets the same education at vet school. I think it wildly varies, but that doesn't mean that one is better than the other, just different, and those difference may be meaningless to some, but may matter to others.

Maybe I am reading your point wrong, but the education everyone gets does not wildly vary... far from it. Every vet school will teach about medicine for farm animals, horses, dogs and cats.

I have a unique perspective on this since I have now attended two different vet schools with different testing styles and I can 100% guarantee that the education received does not wildly vary. Actually, it is eerily similar. Very eerily similar. The methods in which the subjects are taught do vary some, but the information taught and the knowledge learned are damn near identical. It really does not matter what vet school you attend, you will get the same amount of information and knowledge as you do from another vet school. I have noticed this between the two schools I have attended as well as in talking with others on here from other vet schools... everyone learns the same information. There are some differences in opinion on certain subjects and diseases and things and those biases can play into teaching as well, but otherwise it is all the same.

The only area that I could agree could be different in knowledge obtained would be in exotic animals... that does vary greatly between schools with some schools requiring you to learn about exotics and others offering it as an elective course. But outside of that, you will get the same information from every school across the board. Of course there are differences in how the information is taught, hell no two lectures are the same and some professors are better at lectures than others and that also plays into the differences. Even a course at a vet school can change from one year to the next as the schools make changes to the curriculum or a different professor teaches the course the following year.

So, no, I don't agree that education obtained is wildly different from one school to the next. Actually, my experience shows it to be quite the opposite.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Maybe I am reading your point wrong, but the education everyone gets does not wildly vary... far from it. Every vet school will teach about medicine for farm animals, horses, dogs and cats.

I have a unique perspective on this since I have now attended two different vet schools with different testing styles and I can 100% guarantee that the education received does not wildly vary. Actually, it is eerily similar. Very eerily similar. The methods in which the subjects are taught do vary some, but the information taught and the knowledge learned are damn near identical. It really does not matter what vet school you attend, you will get the same amount of information and knowledge as you do from another vet school. I have noticed this between the two schools I have attended as well as in talking with others on here from other vet schools... everyone learns the same information. There are some differences in opinion on certain subjects and diseases and things and those biases can play into teaching as well, but otherwise it is all the same.

The only area that I could agree could be different in knowledge obtained would be in exotic animals... that does vary greatly between schools with some schools requiring you to learn about exotics and others offering it as an elective course. But outside of that, you will get the same information from every school across the board. Of course there are differences in how the information is taught, hell no two lectures are the same and some professors are better at lectures than others and that also plays into the differences. Even a course at a vet school can change from one year to the next as the schools make changes to the curriculum or a different professor teaches the course the following year.

So, no, I don't agree that education obtained is wildly different from one school to the next. Actually, my experience shows it to be quite the opposite.

this is getting way OT.
you and LIS are making the same point.
I am making a different point. I am talking about process not knowledge. How you get the knowledge into student heads differs greatly. Process. Not the facts.
You can PM me if you want to discuss further.

 

[DVMDream]

this is getting way OT.
you and LIS are making the same point.
I am making a different point. I am talking about process not knowledge. How you get the knowledge into student heads differs greatly. Process. Not the facts.
You can PM me if you want to discuss further.

Of course the process varies, that is a given.

However, after 2 and 1/2 years of vet school, 98% of the information I have learned has not been from sitting in the lectures, but instead studying meticulously over notes in my own time to learn the information. The school just provides the information in forms of powerpoints, lectures, notes or case studies... getting the knowledge into your head is about how you study in your own time.

I agree that each school will vary in what they provide you with to learn, but ultimately you are going to (or should) go home and study the information in a manner that is best conducive to your learning style. Nobody learns everything they need to by sitting in a lecture or a PBL.

I get what you are saying, each school has a different process, but I am not convinced it really makes a difference.

 

[deleted498041]

Just to hit on the PBL thing... we don't just pick up random cases and learn about whatever strikes our fancy. We have blocks designed by body system, so you know where you should go, and what to avoid for that time being. As you get further along in the curriculum, more and more is "fair game," and you should be able to answer reproductive questions in your GI block because you had it last year.

[Edit] Also, if you decide to just ignore some topic... it's still on the exam any way. Just like a normal vet school.

Also, we don't learn via PBL for all of our vet school career 😉 We have clinics just like you. We have lectures. We have classes outside of PBL. I don't think everyone chooses a PBL-based school solely for the PBL either.

PBL is very hard to do "right." We have an interprofessional education class at my school, that includes all of the universities and is facilitated by faculty of many different backgrounds -- not just CVM. IPE is modeled after PBL but it is god awful. No one is on the same page, no one knows what to get out of it, and no one likes it. The PBL I do for my veterinary basic sciences class? It's worlds different.

A lot of people like to hate on PBL but I will be graduating with roughly the same knowledge of every other new-grad DVM in the United States, I will pass the same standardized exam and I will go on to enter an internship, residency, and be a successful surgeon. If I end up spending that much more money than others, then c'est la vie. I have a plan in place, and I'll make it work.

 

[DVMDream]

Just to hit on the PBL thing... we don't just pick up random cases and learn about whatever strikes our fancy. We have blocks designed by body system, so you know where you should go, and what to avoid for that time being. As you get further along in the curriculum, more and more is "fair game," and you should be able to answer reproductive questions in your GI block because you had it last year.

[Edit] Also, if you decide to just ignore some topic... it's still on the exam any way. Just like a normal vet school.

Also, we don't learn via PBL for all of our vet school career 😉 We have clinics just like you. We have lectures. We have classes outside of PBL. I don't think everyone chooses a PBL-based school solely for the PBL either.

PBL is very hard to do "right." We have an interprofessional education class at my school, that includes all of the universities and is facilitated by faculty of many different backgrounds -- not just CVM. IPE is modeled after PBL but it is god awful. No one is on the same page, no one knows what to get out of it, and no one likes it. The PBL I do for my veterinary basic sciences class? It's worlds different.

A lot of people like to hate on PBL but I will be graduating with roughly the same knowledge of every other new-grad DVM in the United States, I will pass the same standardized exam and I will go on to enter an internship, residency, and be a successful surgeon. If I end up spending that much more money than others, then c'est la vie. I have a plan in place, and I'll make it work.

I don't think anyone was hating on PBL...

 

[onisteverina]

I also got a tad bit of an anti-PBL vibe from some posts (but I may be a little sensitive since I'm at a PBL school 😉).

We had our first "block" in the PBL format.. and there is a definite structure, but a ton of "self teaching" as I like to call it. I complained the whole way through it and felt super unconfident the whole time.. Just finished with block 2 today (lecture based block) and I have to say that I learned/retained way more information from the PBL block as apposed to sitting through lecture.. I thought after the PBL block I would welcome sitting in lecture since it is what I'm used to, but it was actually pretty..bleh.. I've always know that I was more of a hands on learner, but being in the PBL curriculum just emphasized that for me. I think it just all depends on the person, but I'm glad I chose PBL.

 

[deleted498041]

I don't think anyone was hating on PBL...

Oh, I didn't mean here, on this thread, specifically. I just meant in general.

 

[bbeventer]

Just to hit on the PBL thing... we don't just pick up random cases and learn about whatever strikes our fancy. We have blocks designed by body system, so you know where you should go, and what to avoid for that time being. As you get further along in the curriculum, more and more is "fair game," and you should be able to answer reproductive questions in your GI block because you had it last year.

[Edit] Also, if you decide to just ignore some topic... it's still on the exam any way. Just like a normal vet school.

Also, we don't learn via PBL for all of our vet school career 😉 We have clinics just like you. We have lectures. We have classes outside of PBL. I don't think everyone chooses a PBL-based school solely for the PBL either.

PBL is very hard to do "right." We have an interprofessional education class at my school, that includes all of the universities and is facilitated by faculty of many different backgrounds -- not just CVM. IPE is modeled after PBL but it is god awful. No one is on the same page, no one knows what to get out of it, and no one likes it. The PBL I do for my veterinary basic sciences class? It's worlds different.

A lot of people like to hate on PBL but I will be graduating with roughly the same knowledge of every other new-grad DVM in the United States, I will pass the same standardized exam and I will go on to enter an internship, residency, and be a successful surgeon. If I end up spending that much more money than others, then c'est la vie. I have a plan in place, and I'll make it work.

Sensitive much?

 

[onisteverina]

Sensitive much?

Really?

 

[deleted498041]

Sensitive much?

No...? Not really. I just know that there's a lot of misinformation out there about schools that use a PBL curriculum and I was trying to dispel some of the mystery. I saw that people were talking about it here and thought I'd chime in since I go to a school known for its PBL curriculum; we don't just have one class structured that way.

 

[bunnity]

SOV isn't saying that you learn different material. He is saying that everything else that makes up your school experience is going to be different from school to school. As someone who finished fourth year not too long ago and talked to a lot of externs at my school I can tell you there are huge differences between schools in how rotations are scheduled, how much flexibility you have over which rotations you take, how long rotations last, what type of caseload you will likely experience, what specialties are available at your vet school (we didn't have rehab, but did have a great exotics program, for example), what type of on call hours are expected of vet students, what type of facilities exist (or don't) for students spending long days at the hospital, and so on.

Also to lighten the mood a little:
I was in rounds on orthopedic surgery with a fellow student who had done his classroom years at another school (and for the record, he was a very smart and well-educated guy). The clinicians asked what the function of the iliopsoas muscle was. This student proudly called out "It's the humping muscle!!!!" and there was DEAD silence from the clinicians. Apparently there are a few things that are taught differently!

 

[Rycon]

Wow, thanks everyone for the replies.

Derwent, that is extremely cool and I'm really glad you showed me that. I had no idea that resource existed. I'm definitely going to take those courses, and other relating ones too.

It is true I don't have really any experience in an animal lab or research setting, so I guess I shouldn't have made that blanket statement. I didn't imagine animals being tortured behind closed doors. But while, for example, purposely giving an animal a disease or cancer to see how we can best treat it, or testing new medicines to see their effect, enhances our medical knowledge so we can do it better in the future, I want my hands to save an animal from a deadly disease, not administer it. That's just my two cents.

It may have been mentioned somewhere and I just missed it, but what is PBL?

 

[LetItSnow]

I want my hands to save an animal from a deadly disease, not administer it. That's just my two cents.

It may have been mentioned somewhere and I just missed it, but what is PBL?

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But research can be clinically based as well. It's not all "using animals in a lab".

PBL is Problem-Based Learning. You can google for more information.

 

[Rycon]

And while nothing's set in stone for me yet, I still have a lot to do and see before I decide, if I were to become a veterinarian, I think I would try to apply for the army scholarship, which, from my understanding, they would pay for the schooling of your choice from wherever you got accepted in exchange for four years of active service as a vet. So, whether it is Ohio State(where I'm from) Cornell, Colorado, etc (if I somehow managed to get in to these schools, of course) I think I would be able to choose which school fits my interest best, if there were any differences. But it sounds like there isn't too much of a difference, wherever you go.

 

[DVMDream]

And while nothing's set in stone for me yet, I still have a lot to do and see before I decide, if I were to become a veterinarian, I think I would try to apply for the army scholarship, which, from my understanding, they would pay for the schooling of your choice from wherever you got accepted in exchange for four years of active service as a vet. So, whether it is Ohio State(where I'm from) Cornell, Colorado, etc (if I somehow managed to get in to these schools, of course) I think I would be able to choose which school fits my interest best, if there were any differences. But it sounds like there isn't too much of a difference, wherever you go.

No, you can't apply for the army thing until your first year of vet school. It is also very very competitive so there is a very slim chance of getting it. Not only that, but I think there is a limit on the amount they put towards tuition although I could be wrong about that. Basically, if you go to vet school, you should be prepared to have to pay the full amount that school costs plus living expenses, don't rely on getting the army thing expect to pay it yourself.

 

[Rycon]

No, you can't apply for the army thing until your first year of vet school. It is also very very competitive so there is a very slim chance of getting it. Not only that, but I think there is a limit on the amount they put towards tuition although I could be wrong about that. Basically, if you go to vet school, you should be prepared to have to pay the full amount that school costs plus living expenses, don't rely on getting the army thing expect to pay it yourself.

I thought once you had an acceptance letter in hand you could apply. I must've misinterpreted it.

I know it's a big if. A lot of things in the future are a big speculative if right now. I'm just trying to get information on every possible path I can. I feel like once you get to college, you should have a pretty good idea of what you want to do, otherwise you'll either waste years and money in college or you might not be able to fit the requirements of what you do decide you want to do, so I'm feeling the pressure now.

I shadowed a veterinarian last summer, but it wasn't anything extensive, and all I got to see were the routine stuff - x-rays, pulling out teeth, dental cleanings, physical examinations, stuff like that, so I know my knowledge about this field isn't very great. I'm trying to work on that.

 

[dyachei]

I thought once you had an acceptance letter in hand you could apply. I must've misinterpreted it.

I know it's a big if. A lot of things in the future are a big speculative if right now. I'm just trying to get information on every possible path I can. I feel like once you get to college, you should have a pretty good idea of what you want to do, otherwise you'll either waste years and money in college or you might not be able to fit the requirements of what you do decide you want to do, so I'm feeling the pressure now.

I shadowed a veterinarian last summer, but it wasn't anything extensive, and all I got to see were the routine stuff - x-rays, pulling out teeth, dental cleanings, physical examinations, stuff like that, so I know my knowledge about this field isn't very great. I'm trying to work on that.

Yeah that sounds like general practice.

my biggest piece of advice for you is to keep an open mind about everything.

 

[SummerTheLynx]

I thought once you had an acceptance letter in hand you could apply. I must've misinterpreted it.

I know it's a big if. A lot of things in the future are a big speculative if right now. I'm just trying to get information on every possible path I can. I feel like once you get to college, you should have a pretty good idea of what you want to do, otherwise you'll either waste years and money in college or you might not be able to fit the requirements of what you do decide you want to do, so I'm feeling the pressure now.

I shadowed a veterinarian last summer, but it wasn't anything extensive, and all I got to see were the routine stuff - x-rays, pulling out teeth, dental cleanings, physical examinations, stuff like that, so I know my knowledge about this field isn't very great. I'm trying to work on that.

Also with regards to the army aspect, there are very few positions that are for acting as a vet for the animals on base. A whole lot of it is public health stuff. If you aren't interested in doing lots of food inspections, some of which is not even on animals (ie. crops), then I wouldn't recommend doing the army program.

 

[pp9]

Wow, thanks everyone for the replies.

Derwent, that is extremely cool and I'm really glad you showed me that. I had no idea that resource existed. I'm definitely going to take those courses, and other relating ones too.

It is true I don't have really any experience in an animal lab or research setting, so I guess I shouldn't have made that blanket statement. I didn't imagine animals being tortured behind closed doors. But while, for example, purposely giving an animal a disease or cancer to see how we can best treat it, or testing new medicines to see their effect, enhances our medical knowledge so we can do it better in the future, I want my hands to save an animal from a deadly disease, not administer it. That's just my two cents.

It may have been mentioned somewhere and I just missed it, but what is PBL?

I will never claim to know vast amounts about lab animals. But based off of that statement I bolded, does this mean you're also okay with thousands of humans dying each year from just one type of cancer alone? If someone were to find the cure for bone cancer or a way to prevent it in golden retrievers, surely you agree that the advance made in dog cancer prevention and treatment is not only crucial to the improvement of animal health in general, but likely to make strides in human cancer research as well. Some animals might have suffered for that research (but again, a lab vet is responsible for managing the suffering as best as possible).

I used to read things published by PETA. I used to think zoos were awful. But then I actually researched, for myself, what was upsetting me. Turns out I was misinformed and didn't know jack. I actually wrote a high school term paper on ending animal testing. I lol @ high school me....although I did have some valid alternatives that are still being actively researched today.

Here is how I look at it: You can never quite 'justify' any suffering you might cause (although like mentioned, a lab animal vet's purpose is to control the suffering, regardless of the experiment type). This is because every life matters, and as a veterinarian, you will have taken an oath (the prevention/relief of animal suffering). However, it is crucial to look at the bigger picture and truly know why ANY research occurs. I am not saying that you should take animal testing as "50 monkeys die so that we humans can have a safe drug to treat ____." That's not the point. If you ask me, veterinarians obviously focus on animals, but are responsible for the health of humans in very many ways. This is one way that veterinarians actively improve the health of people and animals around the world. Ways that do alleviate suffering or prevent it altogether from now on.

I also want to mention that as a veterinarian, you will encounter animals that are clearly suffering, but you cannot always help. Not everyone will allow you to euthanize their 15 year old dog that is clearly suffering, incontinent, and no longer responding to medication. Just something to ponder while you start your journey.

 

[ameropean_chelsea]

I will never claim to know vast amounts about lab animals. But based off of that statement I bolded, does this mean you're also okay with thousands of humans dying each year from just one type of cancer alone? If someone were to find the cure for bone cancer or a way to prevent it in golden retrievers, surely you agree that the advance made in dog cancer prevention and treatment is not only crucial to the improvement of animal health in general, but likely to make strides in human cancer research as well. Some animals might have suffered for that research (but again, a lab vet is responsible for managing the suffering as best as possible).

I used to read things published by PETA. I used to think zoos were awful. But then I actually researched, for myself, what was upsetting me. Turns out I was misinformed and didn't know jack. I actually wrote a high school term paper on ending animal testing. I lol @ high school me....although I did have some valid alternatives that are still being actively researched today.

Here is how I look at it: You can never quite 'justify' any suffering you might cause (although like mentioned, a lab animal vet's purpose is to control the suffering, regardless of the experiment type). This is because every life matters, and as a veterinarian, you will have taken an oath (the prevention/relief of animal suffering). However, it is crucial to look at the bigger picture and truly know why ANY research occurs. I am not saying that you should take animal testing as "50 monkeys die so that we humans can have a safe drug to treat ____." That's not the point. If you ask me, veterinarians obviously focus on animals, but are responsible for the health of humans in very many ways. This is one way that veterinarians actively improve the health of people and animals around the world. Ways that do alleviate suffering or prevent it altogether from now on.

I also want to mention that as a veterinarian, you will encounter animals that are clearly suffering, but you cannot always help. Not everyone will allow you to euthanize their 15 year old dog that is clearly suffering, incontinent, and no longer responding to medication. Just something to ponder while you start your journey.

Well said.

 

[pp9]

Well said.

Oh thank you!! I appreciate it.

 

[GretaBug3]

No...? Not really. I just know that there's a lot of misinformation out there about schools that use a PBL curriculum and I was trying to dispel some of the mystery. I saw that people were talking about it here and thought I'd chime in since I go to a school known for its PBL curriculum; we don't just have one class structured that way.

Off hand does anyone know what schools are PBL based?

 

[WildZoo]

Off hand does anyone know what schools are PBL based?

I think Western might be the only one that is entirely PBL based, though others do incorporate it into the curriculum a fair bit. Cornell, UTK, I think Davis, Illinois, and Tufts were changing things recently to implement it more.

 

[pp9]

I think Western might be the only one that is entirely PBL based, though others do incorporate it into the curriculum a fair bit. Cornell, UTK, I think Davis, Illinois, and Tufts were changing things recently to implement it more.

Is Illinois more PBL-based because they start you in clinicals from the first year, or do you mean they are further changing their curriculum?

 

[WildZoo]

Is Illinois more PBL-based because they start you in clinicals from the first year, or do you mean they are further changing their curriculum?

I hadn't heard about them making any more changes now, "recently" was a couple years ago

 

[that redhead]

Tis true I don't have really any experience in an animal lab or research setting, so I guess I shouldn't have made that blanket statement. I didn't imagine animals being tortured behind closed doors. But while, for example, purposely giving an animal a disease or cancer to see how we can best treat it, or testing new medicines to see their effect, enhances our medical knowledge so we can do it better in the future, I want my hands to save an animal from a deadly disease, not administer it. That's just my two cents.

And that's totally okay. Just remember that you're able to provide safe, repeatable, life saving treatments, surgeries, etc because of research 🙂

 

[deleted498041]

Is Illinois more PBL-based because they start you in clinicals from the first year, or do you mean they are further changing their curriculum?

"PBL-based" doesn't mean you start clinics early. PBL-based means that there are courses based around case studies that are designed and written to bring up certain "learning issues" that will drive you to study major physiology, pathology, other -ology concepts.

 

[pp9]

"PBL-based" doesn't mean you start clinics early. PBL-based means that there are courses based around case studies that are designed and written to bring up certain "learning issues" that will drive you to study major physiology, pathology, other -ology concepts.

Ohh okay, I thought you could consider the fact that you would be working with actual cases as PBL.

 

[deleted498041]

Ohh okay, I thought you could consider the fact that you would be working with actual cases as PBL.

If that were the case, PBL would really suck. As first years, our clinics are all wellness exams so they're healthy pets presenting for vaccines or something like that.

 

[Sandie]

Other than name, location, and tuition, what sets each school apart from the others? I've heard Auburn and UPenn are great in equine medicine, Illinois has a good program in exotics, NC State is good in wildlife, Michigan State and Wisco have strong dairy med programs. What are some unique or strong points at other schools?

 

[twelvetigers]

Just because you go to UF or something doesn't mean you won't learn about horses. The most important thing, if you're interested in something specific, you pursue externships and preceptors in that area. The core education is the same, really.