What's the Failure Rate of Your School

[confettiflyer]

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We lost 4-5 people out of a class of 74 going from P-1 fall to P-1 spring. No one was dropped from the program, these students went "off track" and did elective work during the spring. They'll rejoin the c/o 2013 in the fall.

There are about half a dozen students or so on academic probation and have 2 semesters to bring their cumulative GPA's up to 3.0.

We have a cumulative 3.0 rule in that if your cGPA runs < 3.0 for 2 consecutive semesters, you'll be kicked out in the 3rd semester of sub 3.0. Example, if you got a 2.9 and a 2.8 P-1 fall and spring semester GPA, you would need to pull your cumulative up to 3.0 by the end of your fall P-2 semester or you're out.

cGPA of 3.0 by the end of P-3 spring is required to go on rotations.

 

[lesphoques]

haha my favorite topic, considering my dear 0-6 program:

Probably starting out with 400 in the PharmD program, 300 made it to the P1 year, about 200 made it to the P2 year... probably about 150 made it to the second semester of the P2 year. ... probably even less will make it to P3 year.

Our class size is ~250, only thanks to a bunch of transfer students and students held back a year.

MCPHS- BOSTON 😀

 

[lesphoques]

I also have a theory for the poor pass rates on board exams:

The minimum GPA to stay in the PharmD program is a 2.5, many people barely float by on this.... and are unprepared.

 

[cdpiano27]

Yes, MCPHS-Boston was that way even back in 1979-1984 when my aunt attended!!! That many people did fail out of what was then a 5-yaer Bachelors of pharmacy program. I think with all these new schools opening, only about 50% of the incoming class should pass. At least this is the way it is in PhD programs, when trying to pass the qualifying exam. This would restrict the supply of pharmacists and ensure that only the highest qualified could practice.

The other issue is to make the NAPLEX harder. In the Philippines for veterinary medicine, only 33% passed the licensing exam! I think that the US pass rate for the exam is not as low as that. So we should make a NAPLEX with a 33% pass rate, just like the vet licensing test in Philippines. This will definitely be the easiest way to reduce the supply of pharmacists with so many schools opening up.

 

[fhx06]

Short of drastic, unavoidable situations that affect a person's ability to perform in school, isn't a it a good thing to keep those barely passing from obtaining their degree? Not trying to be mean but if a person is not able to grasp the material or doesn't care enough to achieve a better grade, isn't it better that he or she gets booted?

 

[confettiflyer]

I also have a theory for the poor pass rates on board exams:

The minimum GPA to stay in the PharmD program is a 2.5, many people barely float by on this.... and are unprepared.

are you referring to NAPLEX or various jurisprudence exams? NAPLEX pass rate is pretty high...even on the low end, it's 80%.

 

[confettiflyer]

So we should make a NAPLEX with a 33% pass rate, just like the vet licensing test in Philippines. This will definitely be the easiest way to reduce the supply of pharmacists with so many schools opening up.

Creating a test solely dedicated to failing 67% of its test takers is idiotic. Make it harder, yes; but don't throw random **** on there just for the sake of giving the test taker the runaround with the goal of 33%.

 

[lesphoques]

are you referring to NAPLEX or various jurisprudence exams? NAPLEX pass rate is pretty high...even on the low end, it's 80%.

I'm not sure about the MPJE, but yes I'm referring to NAPLEX... 80% is low when most reputable schools have pass rate >95%



MCPHS-Boston lets so many people into its program banking on the failing out of the pharmacy program. Most people who fail out of the pharmacy program go to other degree programs like a BS in Pharmaceutical Marketing/Health Psychology/Etc. So it's very, very profitable!

 

[bigpharmD]

the sad thing is....it is probably a good thing

 

[confettiflyer]

I'm not sure about the MPJE, but yes I'm referring to NAPLEX... 80% is low when most reputable schools have pass rate >95%

Yeah, it's relative though. If you have a class of 150...that's still 120 people who pass with an 80% pass rate vs. ~140 for a ~95% pass rate.

Those 30 that fail WILL pass NAPLEX the next few times they take it. I mean, if you just spent $$$ for a PharmD, you're going to spend the necessary money to pass to get licensed (by getting a coach, more study materials, etc...). NAPLEX isn't even that hard, hence the 80% pass rate on the low end of averages.

Like I've said before, harder national exams on the back end of the pharmacy education process won't curtail the demand for the pharm degree. How many times have you heard your pre-med friends back off of medicine as a career solely because the USMLE is hard? By the time you have a student sitting for NAPLEX, it's too late...they WILL be a pharmacist eventually.

 

[PharmdA07]

Class of 2012!

Just wait until you get to Pharmacology and Therapeutics...

Pcology is actually not bad--sometimes I like it especially sympatho-mimetics and -lytic drugs. Therapeutics is actually sometimes sukish cause technically it's the art of treating disease, and different people have different way to approach treatment, especially when dealing with complicated cases. Sometimes, the way you think may not match the the way instructor think *though both ways can be used in real life practice) and you're wrong.

 

[strawberry2006]

haha my favorite topic, considering my dear 0-6 program:

Probably starting out with 400 in the PharmD program, 300 made it to the P1 year, about 200 made it to the P2 year... probably about 150 made it to the second semester of the P2 year. ... probably even less will make it to P3 year.

Our class size is ~250, only thanks to a bunch of transfer students and students held back a year.

MCPHS- BOSTON 😀

Wow you guys are bad! I am currently a fifth year at MCPHS Boston (rotations here I come!). I transferred into the program as a third year, and at that time, we had a little less than 300 students. Currently, we have around 260 students.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Pcology is actually not bad--sometimes I like it especially sympatho-mimetics and -lytic drugs. Therapeutics is actually sometimes sukish cause technically it's the art of treating disease, and different people have different way to approach treatment, especially when dealing with complicated cases. Sometimes, the way you think may not match the the way instructor think *though both ways can be used in real life practice) and you're wrong.

Pharmacology was just a bunch of random stuff that had little to no meaning whenever it was taught. 🙁 Looking back, I wish we were on block scheduling or something like that.

Therapeutics is not an art. It's a bragging contest more than an art. *shakes head at teachers who think they know it all and refuse to be wrong*

 

[bacillus1]

My school just implemented a "Double-C" rule for my class. Get a C or less in two sections of a sequence course, you have to repeat the entire sequence (it was formerly a "Double-D" rule).

The end of the first full year with this policy in place is coming up, I think it'll be pretty interesting to see how it affects everyone.

Ha, considering a 75 is about average for most couses at my school, I think half of almost each class would have to repeat each year under that rule.

 

[NightSky7]

A few schools, especially private schools, purposely make the curriculum hard to fail out people and that is true. They usually take in more students than are supposed to graduate with. Remember that private schools are not only a place for education but also for business😉

Which pharmacy schools are you referring to that make the curriculum difficult, in order to fail people? Curious to know, thanks!

 

[ldiot]

At my school around 6-8% who enter the program will never graduate. More like 25% will fail a class at some point but unless you fail 2 classes in one year you can retake the class in the summer and not get behind. I've heard of people taking 6 years to get through though meaning they must have failed 2 classes in a single year twice. These situations are at the discretion of the school though; as failing 2 courses in a single year is grounds for dismissal.

Which reminds me... I have studying to do

 

[PAtoPharm]

What programs are known for making it a prerogative to fail at least a certain percentage of students because it makes their school look "good?"

 

[297point1]

What programs are known for making it a prerogative to fail at least a certain percentage of students because it makes their school look "good?"

I'm not sure there are any that do this.

And if there were schools that did this in the past (even the recent past), I doubt they have that mentality anymore; ACPE requires schools to post their on-time graduation rate on their websites. Applicants pay attention to that and comparison shop.