What's the purpose of the interview?

[emboli]

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What are some of the not so obvious things that are considered/scored by the interviewer?

Is it safe to say that programs already have predetermined rank list of applicants and the whole point of the interview is to see whether or not to bump the person up or write them off?

 

[smq123]

Is it safe to say that programs already have predetermined rank list of applicants and the whole point of the interview is to see whether or not to bump the person up or write them off?

No.

The point of the interview is to determine fit....do you think that this person would bring to the program, and do you think that your program is best suited to help them?

 

[GoSpursGo]

smq's essentially right. If you're at the interview, then on paper you're qualified--unless you're an absolute rockstar for your field, that's probably all it tells you. How they pare from the people they interview down to the people they rank to match then depends on how well they thought you would fit at their program based on your interview.

Of course, probably specialty and program dependent too.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I don't think the answer is quite as clear as this.

I can only tell you what I do. We tend to classify people before they interview into thirds. The results of your interview clearly affect where you end up ranking inside your group, can move you up one group, or get you removed from the list regardless of what group you started in.

Exactly how each program does this will be different. Very small programs (i.e. those matching only 1-2 residents per year) will probably put a very large focus on "fit". Those that interview only very competitive candidates might also, since everyone has outstanding credentials.

 

[gutonc]

I don't think the answer is quite as clear as this.

I can only tell you what I do. We tend to classify people before they interview into thirds. The results of your interview clearly affect where you end up ranking inside your group, can move you up one group, or get you removed from the list regardless of what group you started in.

Exactly how each program does this will be different. Very small programs (i.e. those matching only 1-2 residents per year) will probably put a very large focus on "fit". Those that interview only very competitive candidates might also, since everyone has outstanding credentials.

As usual, aPD beat me to the punch here.

This is almost exactly how my IM subspecialty program does it. Interviewees are in rough thirds at the beginning based on their CV and LORs and then move up or down (a little...not from the top 1/3 to the bottom) based on the interview. A very small # of our interviewees wound up not getting ranked at all, or moved from the top to the bottom group based strictly on the sociopathology on display during their interviews. A larger number of average-on-paper candidates moved up because of their performance during the interview.

 

[emboli]

Thanks for the replies. To piggyback off my original questions...

Do "informal interviews" actually matter? I've had many programs label those one to one session with the program leadership as being informal. More often than not, the PD will note that those sessions are to allow the applicant to ask any last minute questions or to address any issues.

Of course, everything matters to a degree, but is it weighted differently simply because it is an "informal" interview.

 

[fizzle]

"Fit" is such a vague term. When you say "fit," are you referring to objective measures such as goals/research interests/etc., or are you talking more subjectively like personality (assuming a non-sociopathic personality, I'm referring to personality types, e.g. introverted vs extroverted, etc)? Both are probably important, but which is given more weight?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Thanks for the replies. To piggyback off my original questions...

Do "informal interviews" actually matter? I've had many programs label those one to one session with the program leadership as being informal. More often than not, the PD will note that those sessions are to allow the applicant to ask any last minute questions or to address any issues.

Of course, everything matters to a degree, but is it weighted differently simply because it is an "informal" interview.

Everything counts. Everything.

"Fit" is such a vague term. When you say "fit," are you referring to objective measures such as goals/research interests/etc., or are you talking more subjectively like personality (assuming a non-sociopathic personality, I'm referring to personality types, e.g. introverted vs extroverted, etc)? Both are probably important, but which is given more weight?

Yes. (Purposely vague answer)

 

[emboli]

Since we're on the topic of fit...

Whenever they ask me where I see myself in X years, I always wonder in the back of my head if I just shot myself in the foot by answering hospital medicine.

Wouldn't a better fit mean someone who will specialize and become another statistic worth boasting about as oppose an individual who is doing boring old general internal medicine/hospital medicine/primary care.

I'm an idealistic person and want to think that IM residency programs want to train great internist. Some programs state that as their mission. But in reality, this is just another business, no?

 

[LovelyBRass]

Since we're on the topic of fit...

Whenever they ask me where I see myself in X years, I always wonder in the back of my head if I just shot myself in the foot by answering hospital medicine.

Wouldn't a better fit mean someone who will specialize and become another statistic worth boasting about as oppose an individual who is doing boring old general internal medicine/hospital medicine/primary care.

I'm an idealistic person and want to think that IM residency programs want to train great internist. Some programs state that as their mission. But in reality, this is just another business, no?

As long as their match percentage is good and the places people matched are excellent, what does it matter how many people actually entered a fellowship match?

 

[shan564]

Wouldn't a better fit mean someone who will specialize and become another statistic worth boasting about as oppose an individual who is doing boring old general internal medicine/hospital medicine/primary care.

A better fit is someone who wants to do what that hospital does well. I've been to an interview at a fairly strong program where the PD boasted about how many of their residents choose to become hospitalists. They even have a "hospitalist track," but she said that it's not that different from their general residency.

 

[pooh86]

I was luckily enough to interview at a program where the PD advocated transparency. Therefore at the end of the interview day, he told us exactly how we are ranked. Here's the overall idea of what he told us:

1. All interviewees are given a numeric score from 1-100.
2. a Max of 30 points is given to your interview. If your interview was average, you get 18 points. for exceptional interview answers, you get more points, but to a max of 30.
3. a Max of 30 points is given to your transcript. If you were average student with Pass and HP grades, you get 18 points. For every Honor in THIRD year only, you get extra 2 points.
4. The rest of the points are given for letter of Rec, (exceptional letter would get 2-3 points, average letter gets 1-2 points, etc.), research, CV/community experiences, and others that I can't remember.
Then he told us if you have a score of XX, you'll most likely match there. If you have score of YY, you'll not match there. the scores in between XX-YY is the gray area that varies each year.

So in summary, it seems that your interview only matters for a small percentage. Even if you dazzled the PD or Chairman, the likelihood of a match is still mostly determined by your paper application. Of course this is just one institution for one specialty, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Law2Doc]

I was luckily enough to interview at a program where the PD advocated transparency. Therefore at the end of the interview day, he told us exactly how we are ranked. Here's the overall idea of what he told us:

1. All interviewees are given a numeric score from 1-100.
2. a Max of 30 points is given to your interview. If your interview was average, you get 18 points. for exceptional interview answers, you get more points, but to a max of 30.
3. a Max of 30 points is given to your transcript. If you were average student with Pass and HP grades, you get 18 points. For every Honor in THIRD year only, you get extra 2 points.
4. The rest of the points are given for letter of Rec, (exceptional letter would get 2-3 points, average letter gets 1-2 points, etc.), research, CV/community experiences, and others that I can't remember.
Then he told us if you have a score of XX, you'll most likely match there. If you have score of YY, you'll not match there. the scores in between XX-YY is the gray area that varies each year.

So in summary, it seems that your interview only matters for a small percentage. Even if you dazzled the PD or Chairman, the likelihood of a match is still mostly determined by your paper application. Of course this is just one institution for one specialty, so take it with a grain of salt.

Actually many places break things down by points, but the interview is usually a much larger percentage of points than you are describing here. You are interviewing to see if this is someone who would be a good team member for the next X years, so how they are in person matters more than on paper. If they aren't impressed by you in person, nothing in your CV, letters, etc is going to save you. If you wow them in person, you move up in their rankings, plain and simple. Most places make significant cuts before they invite you in for an interview, meaning they can concentrate much more heavily on the interview -- everybody they invited in is pretty good on paper. As such, if they like you in the preinterview dinner and on interview day, your odds are very good. If you are just a face in the crowd, your odds are very bad. And it's never about "exceptional interview answers". You can give great answers but come off as disinterested or tough to work with and get ranked poorly. It's less about what you say and how you present yourself. Every year every residency sees a bunch of candidates with stellar credentials who give all the right answers, and you can't help but come away from interview day thinking "what a tool". These folks don't get in, period, regardless of what they look like on paper. And there will always be the folks who barely make the cut for interviews and everybody loves them, and they usually get ranked highly. The points conform to this because the interview matters a lot. Your summary simply isn't how it works at most programs in my experience, and probably not even that program.

 

[fizzle]

3. a Max of 30 points is given to your transcript. If you were average student with Pass and HP grades, you get 18 points. For every Honor in THIRD year only, you get extra 2 points.

Considering that the grading scheme varies significantly between medical schools (some schools are pass/fail, others give 40% of the class honors, and still others give only 5% of the class honors), either there are many nuances that your program director left out, or that program's system is very unbalanced and inaccurate.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

I was luckily enough to interview at a program where the PD advocated transparency. Therefore at the end of the interview day, he told us exactly how we are ranked. Here's the overall idea of what he told us:

1. All interviewees are given a numeric score from 1-100.
2. a Max of 30 points is given to your interview. If your interview was average, you get 18 points. for exceptional interview answers, you get more points, but to a max of 30.
3. a Max of 30 points is given to your transcript. If you were average student with Pass and HP grades, you get 18 points. For every Honor in THIRD year only, you get extra 2 points.
4. The rest of the points are given for letter of Rec, (exceptional letter would get 2-3 points, average letter gets 1-2 points, etc.), research, CV/community experiences, and others that I can't remember.
Then he told us if you have a score of XX, you'll most likely match there. If you have score of YY, you'll not match there. the scores in between XX-YY is the gray area that varies each year.

So in summary, it seems that your interview only matters for a small percentage. Even if you dazzled the PD or Chairman, the likelihood of a match is still mostly determined by your paper application. Of course this is just one institution for one specialty, so take it with a grain of salt.

Board scores weren't a major criteria?

 

[C5toC9]

Tulane is explicit about its method of ranking applicants. Scroll down to middle of page.

http://www.tulanemedicine.com/contact.html

 

[Law2Doc]

Tulane is explicit about its method of ranking applicants. Scroll down to middle of page.

http://www.tulanemedicine.com/contact.html

So basically everything is meaningless except having the residents like you. The rest is all just creating a starting point. Sounds about right.

 

[C5toC9]

I didn't know other programs had resident input into the program's rank list. Residents love to say they will take any questions since they have no input...

 

[twright]

I didn't know other programs had resident input into the program's rank list. Residents love to say they will take any questions since they have no input...

Different programs do it differently.

 

[Law2Doc]

I didn't know other programs had resident input into the program's rank list. Residents love to say they will take any questions since they have no input...

Many programs put a ton of weight into what the residents think. It's a team sport, so you need to have the guys who will be working with an applicant on board, particularly if it's a small, close-knit group. This is why the pre- interview dinner is important to try and attend.

 

[shan564]

FWIW, I did an elective at Tulane, and I talked to some of the residents/fellows about the rank list process... they have the ability to tinker with the rank list, but they usually don't do it unless there's some massive blatant fault with a person (the example they gave me was that some guy got drunk and started making inappropriate advances at some of the girls at the pre-interview dinner).

 

[Law2Doc]

FWIW, I did an elective at Tulane, and I talked to some of the residents/fellows about the rank list process... they have the ability to tinker with the rank list, but they usually don't do it unless there's some massive blatant fault with a person (the example they gave me was that some guy got drunk and started making inappropriate advances at some of the girls at the pre-interview dinner).

At many programs, every year the residents end up knocking a number of people far down the match list and out of contention due to personality issues ( it doesn't have to be a massive blatant fault -- just rubbing some people the wrong way) and manage to prop a number up into the "ranked to match" category because they feel such applicants would be great team members. Residents are generally good about circling the wagon and speaking with a single voice, so if one resident feels you would be a pain, the PD is going to hear that the entire residency doesn't want this person. Much of the remainder of applicants don't make a huge impression either way so I agree there will be very mild up or down tweak in ranking. But yeah, what the residents think of you can make or break you because frankly the PD wants people who can be seamlessly integrated into the team and not cause headaches more than he cares about what the average Step scores are. So if you make a good impression to the residents, you may be golden, and if you annoy people, even slightly, you may find yourself in rank list free fall even if your stats are solid.

 

[bandw14]

Many programs put a ton of weight into what the residents think. It's a team sport, so you need to have the guys who will be working with an applicant on board, particularly if it's a small, close-knit group. This is why the pre- interview dinner is important to try and attend.

I go to the pre-interview dinners (good, free food) and later we are asked for our input. So like Law2Doc said the dinners are important and so are the opinions of the residents. Last year I was asked by the PD if I knew 2 of the applicants from my home program. I could tell he took my opinion as very important.

 

[pooh86]

Board scores weren't a major criteria?

Nope. He specifically said they don't count board scores because it's not a longitudinal grade

 

[b-real]

At many programs, every year the residents end up knocking a number of people far down the match list and out of contention due to personality issues ( it doesn't have to be a massive blatant fault -- just rubbing some people the wrong way) and manage to prop a number up into the "ranked to match" category because they feel such applicants would be great team members. Residents are generally good about circling the wagon and speaking with a single voice, so if one resident feels you would be a pain, the PD is going to hear that the entire residency doesn't want this person. Much of the remainder of applicants don't make a huge impression either way so I agree there will be very mild up or down tweak in ranking. But yeah, what the residents think of you can make or break you because frankly the PD wants people who can be seamlessly integrated into the team and not cause headaches more than he cares about what the average Step scores are. So if you make a good impression to the residents, you may be golden, and if you annoy people, even slightly, you may find yourself in rank list free fall even if your stats are solid.

This is absolutely true. I would venture to say most programs value resident opinions. If one resident doesn't like you and is vocal about it, you're pretty much done. Not to say it happens often, but if we have to work with you for the next few years, don't be weird or an obnoxious (or overeager) d-bag at any point in the process: away rotations, pre-interview dinners, interview day, post-interview correspondence or any point in between.

 

[45408]

Agree with pretty much L2D is saying, particularly with regard to resident input on match list rankings. At my program, we have quite a bit of input, and we sit in on the rank list meeting and are encouraged to speak up.

This is absolutely true. I would venture to say most programs value resident opinions. If one resident doesn't like you and is vocal about it, you're pretty much done.

At least for us, it would take more than one vocal resident to ruin an application, unless it was about how the applicant said/did something very inappropriate.

I didn't know other programs had resident input into the program's rank list. Residents love to say they will take any questions since they have no input...

Maybe some places don't have resident input, and I would never lie to say I don't have input.

Since we're on the topic of fit...

Whenever they ask me where I see myself in X years, I always wonder in the back of my head if I just shot myself in the foot by answering hospital medicine.

I think that if the program holds that against you, then you probably didn't want to be there. One of the residency programs near my school didn't even offer me an interview, and I'm pretty sure it's because I was fairly blatant in my PS about how I wasn't planning on becoming an academic scientist or anything very close to it. That place likes to train researchers, and I'm better off having not interviewed/matched there.

 

[VMSmith]

When residents say they have no input, usually this means that they're not involved in screening applications, selecting people to interview, doing the interviews, participating in rank list discussions, etc. They generally don't have input (because in most cases they won't tell the PD about any interactions they have with you), but if they really dislike (or really like) you, they can have input by telling the PD.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Yeah, I've been really surprised at how often the residents have said 'ask anything you want, we truly have no input in this process' on the trail. It's becoming as worn out as the 'the best thing about this program is the people' mantra.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

From my understanding, we decide everything about ranking post-interview. That doesn't mean we don't consider facets in your application other than your interview, but if you're not likeable for some reason, none of that other stuff matters. And if you're pretty likable, you might wind up higher on the list than someone with a better application on paper. Basically, the interview (including all your interactions during the day and lunch/dinner) is a substantial part of your complete application.

Also, residents do have input here, and each class has a representative who participates in the rank list meeting. If any resident has a substantial bad feeling about it, it probably would be taken seriously. Now with that said, very few applicants actually generate bad feelings in residents. One tip about impressing residents -- we want to know that you're a team player and that we won't be stuck covering for you. So don't be too boisterous and don't come across as a flake.