What's With The Negativity?

[ChocolateRun]

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I don't know if there are just more complainers out there, but what is with the negativity on this forum?
I graduated from a respectable school with an excellent GPA. Despite that, I've been searching for a job for the past year after being laid off from my last job. I have received zero interviews with having sent close to 300 applications. As such, I have decided that I may need to go to professional school. Looking at my options, I found optometry to be extremely appealing and interesting and after shadowing multiple ODs, I became even more excited. I was all set to apply and then I stumbled upon this forum and found everybody blasting the profession left and right. All this negativity has made me seriously doubt my choice. Is it just the vocal few or is there really this much hate towards the profession?
I see posts about the new schools opening up, but I don't understand why that should impact anybody for a long time. If you go to an interview and are from an established school and compete against someone from one of the new schools, do you really think that the doc would take a risk on the person from the new school?

 

[Digitalized]

I don't know if there are just more complainers out there, but what is with the negativity on this forum?
I graduated from a respectable school with an excellent GPA. Despite that, I've been searching for a job for the past year after being laid off from my last job. I have received zero interviews with having sent close to 300 applications. As such, I have decided that I may need to go to professional school. Looking at my options, I found optometry to be extremely appealing and interesting and after shadowing multiple ODs, I became even more excited. I was all set to apply and then I stumbled upon this forum and found everybody blasting the profession left and right. All this negativity has made me seriously doubt my choice. Is it just the vocal few or is there really this much hate towards the profession?
I see posts about the new schools opening up, but I don't understand why that should impact anybody for a long time. If you go to an interview and are from an established school and compete against someone from one of the new schools, do you really think that the doc would take a risk on the person from the new school?

The negativity comes from the people who can't find a job after professional school and who have an additional quarter of a million dollars in debt.

 

[Jason K]

The negativity comes from the people who can't find a job after professional school and who have an additional quarter of a million dollars in debt.

That is certainly part of the problem, but the real issues that are drowning the profession are far deeper than new grad employment options. The employment issues are simply a symptom of the other cancers affecting the profession, mixed with a slow economy.

 

[csandova]

You just need to do your own research. Don't base your opinions based on the negative opinions of people in this forum. Talk to the OD's you shadowed, talk to your own OD, look up some of the arising legislative issues, form your own opinion.

 

[Rain Clouds]

Note that this forum is notorious for being exceptionally negative towards optometry.

As with any profession, going into optometry doesn't guarantee success in optometry. That and optometry isn't exactly on the upswing, but neither are most healthcare professions. But I think it's more of an awkward transitional period right now with a lot of uncertainty about the future of healthcare in this country.

That said, you can do well in optometry. You can make your chances of success in the field even better if you are proactive in building your career while you're in school in addition to learning the trade. Make as many social ties as you can while you're in, and know how to work them when you're out.

Take all opinions with a grain of salt and know yourself. Success in optometry isn't gained by people who are passive about their careers but is owned by people who keep building the bridges they need to more opportunities.

 

[csandova]

Take all opinions with a grain of salt and know yourself. Success in optometry isn't gained by people who are passive about their careers but is owned by people who keep building the bridges they need to more opportunities.

Amen. This goes for any profession really, bottom line is you need to work hard for your successes.

 

[ChocolateRun]

Amen. This goes for any profession really, bottom line is you need to work hard for your successes.

No problem with doing that. I just got very concerned because while I knew it was going to be hard work, the sense I got from this forum is that if I go into optometry, I'll be in the same place when I graduate as I am now. I have no problem with working hard, but after having searched for a job with zero luck for approaching a year and a half now, I do not want to enter something where I will repeat this. As you can probably assume, I am very disillusioned with the job market.

 

[Jason K]

No problem with doing that. I just got very concerned because while I knew it was going to be hard work, the sense I got from this forum is that if I go into optometry, I'll be in the same place when I graduate as I am now. I have no problem with working hard, but after having searched for a job with zero luck for approaching a year and a half now, I do not want to enter something where I will repeat this. As you can probably assume, I am very disillusioned with the job market.

Ahhh, to be young and blissfully unaware again. Look, there's nothing wrong with having focus, working hard, and driving toward your goals. But just remember, if you and 2000 of your closest friends are wandering around an endless desert, hoping to find water, only a few of you can survive if there's 10 gallons to go around, and they're scattered miles and miles apart. You guys don't see the big picture. A lot of this comes down to resource availability. You don't have as much control as think, although it's always nice to imagine that you're in the driver's seat alone.

There's enough out there for a very limited few. The rest will "starve," and contribute to the demise of the profession while they're at it. If you enter the profession with that understanding, you might do just fine. The problem is, most people at your stage have absolutely zero clue about what they're getting themselves into.

 

[Tonometry]

I'm not going to pretend I know what the job prospect is going to be like for optometry now or 4-5 years from now. All I know is based off what this forum / the drs I've worked under / the drs Ive shadowed - have given me.

Optometry is a healthcare profession, we may not be as demanding as nurses or as secure as physicians. But we do have our place - wether its writing down numbers to checking their ocular health, optometry has gone a long way since when it was created. For someone to project the demise or the prosperity of this profession, they would have to be delusional or an oracle. The best way you can find out the job prospect of this profession is by asking the optometrist you've shadow... Ask them: How hard was it to find a job, how much their salary is. And hope they give you an honest answer.

This forum has no secret outlook into optometry and when I mean "secret outlook" - I mean, the 'optometrist' on these forums are very biased. As you can see by the posts above. When I go ask the optometrists ive shadow what they think about SDN's outlook on optometry as a profession, they tell me either to:

1 - Go Study for your OAT
2 - Go find a new career

In short, don't bother asking the OD on here about the financial side of optometry. They have nothing to gain by telling you how good it can be. The people you should ask, is the optometrist you have shadow, they been through all of this with a certificate hanging on their wall to prove it. What does SDN have? anonymous texts from strangers you will never see.

On the other hand, if you have questions about the OAT / Applying / Student OD Life / anything optometric besides their money --> you'll find your answer =)

 

[Digitalized]

I'm not going to pretend I know what the job prospect is going to be like for optometry now or 4-5 years from now. All I know is based off what this forum / the drs I've worked under / the drs Ive shadowed - have given me.

Optometry is a healthcare profession, we may not be as demanding as nurses or as secure as physicians. But we do have our place - wether its writing down numbers to checking their ocular health, optometry has gone a long way since when it was created. For someone to project the demise or the prosperity of this profession, they would have to be delusional or an oracle. The best way you can find out the job prospect of this profession is by asking the optometrist you've shadow... Ask them: How hard was it to find a job, how much their salary is. And hope they give you an honest answer.

This forum has no secret outlook into optometry and when I mean "secret outlook" - I mean, the 'optometrist' on these forums are very biased. As you can see by the posts above. When I go ask the optometrists ive shadow what they think about SDN's outlook on optometry as a profession, they tell me either to:

1 - Go Study for your OAT
2 - Go find a new career

In short, don't bother asking the OD on here about the financial side of optometry. They have nothing to gain by telling you how good it can be. The people you should ask, is the optometrist you have shadow, they been through all of this with a certificate hanging on their wall to prove it. What does SDN have? anonymous texts from strangers you will never see.

On the other hand, if you have questions about the OAT / Applying / Student OD Life / anything optometric besides their money --> you'll find your answer =)

Well, sure the people on here might be strangers in the general sense, but they're not just people posting at random from various disciplines. I think it's fairly obvious that a lot of people on here do know what they're talking about. We might get the more negative people, but that's just the nature of a place like this. People are much more likely to complain than to sing praises, and while some could argue that there is a little bit of this at play, I think that many valid points are made on this forum. I actually have had several young ODs in real life express their disappointments with the profession. In fact, I have spoken to quite a few dissenting ODs.

I actually think that these kinds of forums are really important for getting certain truths out to the general public. Think about it: The schools are not going to tell prospective students about problems with the profession, the diminishing lack of financial return, the disorganization of the curriculum, the number of complaints that are filed by students, and so on. When I began my program, I really did not get what I expected, and I would not be in this profession if I had known more. (I actually don't think that this is a terrible profession. In fact, I think that it can be quite enjoyable, but the problems coupled with the ridiculous demands of the programs just don't make it worth the time and money, in my opinion.) These kinds of forums where people can speak freely are very helpful, and I only wish that all prospective students would read them. At the very least, it would probably make the schools shape up a little bit.

 

[Rain Clouds]

When I began my program, I really did not get what I expected, and I would not be in this profession if I had known more. (I actually don't think that this is a terrible profession. In fact, I think that it can be quite enjoyable, but the problems coupled with the ridiculous demands of the programs just don't make it worth the time and money, in my opinion.) These kinds of forums where people can speak freely are very helpful, and I only wish that all prospective students would read them. At the very least, it would probably make the schools shape up a little bit.

For the information of the OP, Digitalized has had a rather dismal experience at PCO. I've enjoyed my time at ICO so far, as have most of my classmates (with the obvious caveat that it is very rigorous and demanding). It's true, a lot of people have a really crappy time in optometry school for whatever reason, whether they just get overwhelmed by the demands, or they just don't end up fitting into the culture of the school, etc. It happens.

So a lot of optometrists will never reach their career goals when or how they want to. A lot of them won't make the money that they wished they would. A lot of them won't find jobs in the markets that they want to live in. The good life isn't handed on a silver platter to anyone with an OD tacked on after their name. That's reality.

Life is just full of uncertainty. You can either let the fear of failure rule your decision to stray away from the profession, or you can latch on to strong attainable goals, and hustle 'til you make them come true, bumps along the way and all. Do other professions have easier greener pastures? Maybe. But those are the choices we make in life.

 

[Jason K]

Life is just full of uncertainty. You can either let the fear of failure rule your decision to stray away from the profession, or you can latch on to strong attainable goals, and hustle 'til you make them come true, bumps along the way and all. Do other professions have easier greener pastures? Maybe. But those are the choices we make in life.

I've heard this little half time speech too many times to count, on SDN. If I had $1 for every time I've heard about the optometric "silver platter," I'd be sitting on a pile of $1 bills.

As a student, you don't have the experience or knowledge to make this group of statements with any authority of the subject matter. But, as I always say, the decision is yours, and yours alone to make. If you want to throw all your chips into a profession that is weakened and crumbling, have at it. For what it's worth, I am no longer in the profession, so I stand to gain ZERO by speaking of the realities of the field, and having people choose another, more stable path.

 

[Rain Clouds]

To each his own. My being a student has little to do with this, because it's pretty well known that you would also rather shut up the ODs who promote the profession too. You tell people to stay away so much around here that no one else needs to do it. But some of us are also interested in giving the people who still want to do it a couple strategies to give themselves a better chance of success.

Everest only has a 30% successful climb rate, but a forum on climbing Everest wouldn't be very useful if the only thing anyone ever talked about was not to do it because chances are you will fail. It's might be a good thing to tell people, yes. But for those who are hellbent on climbing the thing, at least someone should tell them how to use an ice pick, tie a safety line, and put on their crampons.

 

[Jason K]

To each his own. My being a student has little to do with this, because it's pretty well known that you would also rather shut up the ODs who promote the profession too. You tell people to stay away so much around here that no one else needs to do it. But some of us are also interested in giving the people who still want to do it a couple strategies to give themselves a better chance of success.

Everest only has a 30% successful climb rate, but a forum on climbing Everest wouldn't be very useful if the only thing anyone ever talked about was not to do it because chances are you will fail. It's might be a good thing to tell people, yes. But for those who are hellbent on climbing the thing, at least someone should tell them how to use an ice pick, tie a safety line, and put on their crampons.

I've never told anyone not to "stay away" from optometry. What I have said over and over, is , if you're going to go into this profession, you'd better learn what you're getting in exchange for your massive indebtedness. Most of you have no clue what you're getting into. If you do, super - there are plenty of others who don't, and that's why I'm here.

The Everest analogy is perfect, except that my role on here is not to prepare people who have already decided to climb the mountain. I'm not here for that. For that matter, you're here for that. I'm here to tell people, "Hey, a bunch of people have died recently on this thing, more deaths will come, and it's a lot worse than you probably imagine, even on the best day. Oh, and there's a 60ft tall Ogre named "Commercial Everest" that eats younger, less experienced climbers for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, so make sure you know what you're doing before you leave base camp."

 

[east]

Jason, you should actually start doing the exact opposite. encourage everyone to go into optometry, hasten the future implosion, and allow the young grads to cannibalize each other, allowing only the strongest to survive.
this way doe eyed undergrads will begin shy away by their own personal observation (not your warnings), schools will close unless they start digging up bodies to enroll, and the supply demand curve will equalibrate much faster. come on lets rip the band-aid off, instead of slowly peeling it away with stern warnings.

 

[Tonometry]

Jason, you should actually start doing the exact opposite. encourage everyone to go into optometry, hasten the future implosion, and allow the young grads to cannibalize each other, allowing only the strongest to survive.
this way doe eyed undergrads will begin shy away by their own personal observation (not your warnings), schools will close unless they start digging up bodies to enroll, and the supply demand curve will equalibrate much faster. come on lets rip the band-aid off, instead of slowly peeling it away with stern warnings.

I also would like to see this. I doubt there will be a full on implosion like Jason predicts but I bet you anything, him encouraging people would do more good than his "warnings".


Getting back on topic, the OD's I've talk to just dont say the good things about optometry. They told me how hard it is, in school and for some... Finding a job. Not one person told me that optometry is going to hell (maybe because they are not as dramatic). The worst thing they told me was: "You'll find work where you are but for the early part of your career, you might be putting together multiple part time jobs to equate to a full time"

Do optometry because you like it =) or like another post I saw "Because I like drawing eyes".

 

[Jason K]

Jason, you should actually start doing the exact opposite. encourage everyone to go into optometry, hasten the future implosion, and allow the young grads to cannibalize each other, allowing only the strongest to survive.
this way doe eyed undergrads will begin shy away by their own personal observation (not your warnings), schools will close unless they start digging up bodies to enroll, and the supply demand curve will equalibrate much faster. come on lets rip the band-aid off, instead of slowly peeling it away with stern warnings.

Hadn't thought of this approach, maybe it's worth a shot. Not really out to save or destroy anything, though - just inform. The implosion is coming, though...with or without me. 😀

 

[optgal]

The dr I shadow at Costco graduated from
SUNY 2 years ago and is making 110,000$...I'd be happy w that so honestly it's a personal choice you can't keep convincing people to change their minds

 

[optgal]

I realize you are trying to open people's eyes but I if people are okay w living comfortably optometry is good...if u r going into it for the money...bad choice

 

[Jason K]

The dr I shadow at Costco graduated from
SUNY 2 years ago and is making 110,000$...I'd be happy w that so honestly it's a personal choice you can't keep convincing people to change their minds

If you'll be perfectly happy working next to the big screen TV section in a big box discount store, more power to you. That's likely where the majority of the work will be for ODs coming out of school in the future. Keep in mind that Costco is at the top of the pile, when it comes to the big boxes. They tend to stay out of your hair, much more than Walmart, Sams, Target, etc. Here's an exercise, though. Go talk to 10 new grads, from the last 2 or three years, and lay out the results.

As I've said too many times to count, I'm not on here to "change anyone's mind." You guys might see that as my mission, because it makes it easier for you to justify your own beliefs, but that's not why I'm here. If you choose optometry with a goal of working at Costco, good for you, but I hope you're not disappointed if you end up in a Walmart or Sam's.

There are about 600 locations in the US. That leaves more than 3 new grads per Costco location. Just food for thought.

 

[optgal]

Where do you work?

 

[east]

Hadn't thought of this approach, maybe it's worth a shot. Not really out to save or destroy anything, though - just inform. The implosion is coming, though...with or without me. 😀

it'll work better, and you can spend more energy raking in some cash in your new endeavor(s).

 

[Jason K]

Where do you work?

I'm no longer in optometry - one of the many thousands of ODs to come, who has chosen to leave the profession early, as predicted in 2000 by the Optometric Workforce Study. There will be many more heading in the same direction, once all the new schools are pumping out product.

it'll work better, and you can spend more energy raking in some cash in your new endeavor(s).

Maybe I'll open my own OD program. Seems to have worked for the last few schools that have opened up. All I need is a few million $ from a gullible investor, sprinkle in some "proptometry" propaganda (courtesy of the AOA), change my Jason K persona to be 100% "Optometry is Awesome!"......stir, and enjoy! I'll think about it 😀