What's wrong with Caribbean Medical Schools?

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NeilSaha

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I hear a lot of people degrade Caribbean Medical School. I've been wondering for a while now as to why this happens. What's wrong with attending a Caribbean Medical School? Can someone please explain? I heard St. George in Grenada, Ross University and American University of Antigua are great schools. What are the pros and cons of going to med school in the Caribbeans? I am a freshman in Queens College aspiring to be a doctor (still undecided on what type of doctor), and I am new to the forums. So if this question was already asked, I apologize.

Thank you guys for your time.
 
nothing wrong with it except you the chances for you to land a residency in the united states is slim but hey, at the bright side, you still get to graduate with a😀 MD
 
theWUbear said:
http://tinyurl.com/35fa8yh

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8Q9Ii.jpg

😱
 
Whats wrong with caribbean schools?

THEY ARE NOT IN THE UNITED STATES.

/thread.
 
I've been itching to share this story:

A family member works at a medical school and deals with students coming into their programs (residency, med students, etc.). I asked if it would be a good idea to apply to Caribbean schools because my stats were some what low, and I love the Caribbean. I was told that someone pretty high up's son went to a Caribbean school and that they were going to attempt to let him take some MS3/MS4 rotations at this med school school. It lasted about 3 weeks. They said he was completely incompetent. One attending just made him hold the clipboard for the other (real) medical students. Basically, from my experience, as well as from what others have said on here, Caribbean schools are a joke with lower standards, less challenges, and substandard curriculum. The admissions rates for Caribbean students into residencies are extremely low, if existent at all, with only the very top students landing very uncompetitive residencies in the US. Basically, don't waste your time and money.
 
I have a friend who graduated from a Caribbean med school and did his residency at sloan-kettering for IM. The guy was super smart and got something like 250 on his step 1 and 270 on his step 2. He felt like the only reason he didn't end up at MGH for residency was the fact he graduated from a Caribbean medical school. So to sum up: its possible to get a residency but way harder. That is what is wrong with the Caribbean.
 
I go to an enormous undergrad with thousands of premeds. Everyday we are slammed with ads, solicitations, tabling, emails, etc. for a slew of pre-med related ECs. The only actual Medical Schools that solicit us are Caribbean ones. They send us free stuff, pay our school to come talk to us, and send us posters that are plastered about everywhere advertising their MD programs. Even if I didn't have a single clue as to the intracacies of getting a residency, what an IMG is, nonprofit vs profit model, american vs caribbean requirements, etc.; it is basic instinct when you see stuff like that. My dad taught me that when you are good you don't have to advertise. Never have I seen such from an Amercan medical school. Hell, we have to pay their reps to come talk to us a lot of the time. So yes..... this plus what everyone else here has to say.
 
rafflecopter said:
I have a friend who graduated from a Caribbean med school and did his residency at sloan-kettering for IM. The guy was super smart and got something like 250 on his step 1 and 270 on his step 2. He felt like the only reason he didn't end up at MGH for residency was the fact he graduated from a Caribbean medical school. So to sum up: its possible to get a residency but way harder. That is what is wrong with the Caribbean.
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Too bad MSK doesn't even have an IM program.
 
jbz24 said:
Too bad MSK doesn't even have an IM program.
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Oops my bad. Need to clarify. I remember him talking about MSK one time as a place he worked. As it turns out he did his residency at SUNY Downstate for IM. They rotate through several hospitals, including MSK.
 
There have been a couple of new US allopathic medical schools open up and existing schools have added more seats. However, government funding of residency positions has stayed more or less stagnant. What does this mean?

It means it is becoming much, much harder for FMGs(Foreign Medical Graduates) to land spots in a US residencies. This is because FMGs are usually(NOT ALWAYS, DONT EAT ME) the last rung PD's go to to fill residency seats.

Also, the funding of education is VERY different in the carribean. You cannot get federal subsized or backed loans to attend a carribean school. You have to get funded either through independent/family wealth or private loans, which are not a guaranteed source of loans. Another difference is that Caribbean schools are notorious for "weeding" people out. Do you want to be weeded out after taking about more than thirty grand in loans?

My question is this, OP. You are a freshman. Why are you asking this? Are you planning on sucking at college? Study hard and you won't have to consider the Caribbean, trust me. 😉
 
Oops my bad. Need to clarify. I remember him talking about MSK one time as a place he worked. As it turns out he did his residency at SUNY Downstate for IM. They rotate through several hospitals, including MSK.
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I work with a doctor who also did this and he's both competent and awesome with patients... But I think he's the exception not the rule.

You are a freshman. Why are you asking this? Are you planning on sucking at college?
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:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
many people enter the caribbean, but very few will make it out alive. Be prepared for jungle-warfare if you embark on this journey
 
The Carribean schools are "For Profit." They make their money by exploiting ignorant students who are desperate to have "MD" next to their name. If you go this route, OP, be prepared to be up to your ass in debt with nothing to show for it.
 
First of all, Caribbean schools take hundreds of students a year, knowing half of them will fail out. At stateside schools, most people graduate because a stateside school will offer you tutoring if you're in trouble, they will let you lighten your load at a lot of schools and get on the 5-year plan, some schools will let you repeat first year instead of dismissing you. At the Caribbean, if you screw up, you're done and if you fail out, no U.S. school is going to look at you, so you're stuck with all the debt for the time you were and no degree to show for it.

Secondly, your chances at the residency you want is greatly diminished if you graduate from the Caribbean. Something like 50% of Caribbean graduates failed to match last year (i.e. didn't get any residency at all) whereas only 7% of U.S. graduates failed to match and the majority of those (U.S. grads) scrambled into something after the match. No residency = no license.

Finally, med school life in the Caribbean isn't exactly paradise. And that's all I'll say about that.
 
An intelligent highly motivated Caribbean student can still every now and then find a spot in a good US residency program. Sometimes a transitional year might be necessary.

A competitive Caribbean applicant won't have any problems trying to match into a US primary care residency, it just might be in a less desirable location.

Surgery, EM, or really anything other than FM, IM and PEDS might be tricky.
 
This t-shirt says it all:

caribtempsoln.jpg
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with going to a Ross or St George. I know that Ross is owned by Devry and does their rotations in the states. Here is why everyone hates the Carib med schools. They take a shotgun approach as opposed to US schools that only accept people they think are going to be successful. Caribbean schools accept people from all over the spectrum. So yes they have a lot of people that fail and some that don't make it to residency. They have a sink or swim mentality. You really have to be self motivated to succeed. They don't really care if you fail, they get paid either way. But if you have gumption you can probably do very well. People who talk bad about the schools have no idea what they are talking about. They just don't like to think that someone with a 2.7 gpa and 24 MCAT was able to do what they did.
The place you go to doesn't determine they quality of the doctor you are. I met a doctor that graduated 1st in their class at Yale Med school and made a terrible doctor. Met another doctor from a mediocre school graduated bottom of their class and made the best doctor I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
 
masscrash said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with going to a Ross or St George. I know that Ross is owned by Devry and does their rotations in the states. Here is why everyone hates the Carib med schools. They take a shotgun approach as opposed to US schools that only accept people they think are going to be successful. Caribbean schools accept people from all over the spectrum. So yes they have a lot of people that fail and some that don't make it to residency. They have a sink or swim mentality. You really have to be self motivated to succeed. They don't really care if you fail, they get paid either way. But if you have gumption you can probably do very well. People who talk bad about the schools have no idea what they are talking about. They just don't like to think that someone with a 2.7 gpa and 24 MCAT was able to do what they did.
The place you go to doesn't determine they quality of the doctor you are. I met a doctor that graduated 1st in their class at Yale Med school and made a terrible doctor. Met another doctor from a mediocre school graduated bottom of their class and made the best doctor I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
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After teaching as a guest lecturer/instructor at a hospital that takes on 3rd & 4th yr students from several of the carib schools, I'm pretty sure the clinical professor/physician I've spoken w/ about this would strongly disagree with you. He was recently invited to speak on a variety of critical care topics and teach the students. He was utterly amazed how weak they were in the foundational elements. He had a retired RN along with him (his wife) and she was better able to follow the concepts than these students were. Now maybe these students were an exception but I kind of doubt it. He ended up backtracking all the way to basic clinical assessment, conducting a basic H&P, etc.
 
apumic said:
After teaching as a guest lecturer/instructor at a hospital that takes on 3rd & 4th yr students from several of the carib schools, I'm pretty sure the clinical professor/physician I've spoken w/ about this would strongly disagree with you. He was recently invited to speak on a variety of critical care topics and teach the students. He was utterly amazed how weak they were in the foundational elements. He had a retired RN along with him (his wife) and she was better able to follow the concepts than these students were. Now maybe these students were an exception but I kind of doubt it. He ended up backtracking all the way to basic clinical assessment, conducting a basic H&P, etc.
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I am sure the students were not an exception. They push their students through to get as many out as quick as possible. I believe the Ross university's program is 1 1/2 years on the island and they have extremely large class sizes. My point is if your grades and MCAT are subpar and you know that you have what it takes to be a doctor and are really driven then a Caribbean school is not a bad option. It is a risk if you are not self motivated and you will not be provided with all the amenities of a US school, like a personal adviser and one on one time with profs.
 
pvmed said:
Caribbean med schools are for non-hackers. I would never have one as my doctor if I had the choice.
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You'd automatically discredit someone or accept someone simply based on the med school that they attended and not base your decision on their past performance. Ha. Such an amateur way of thinking. :laugh:
 
NeilSaha said:
I hear a lot of people degrade Caribbean Medical School. I've been wondering for a while now as to why this happens. What's wrong with attending a Caribbean Medical School? Can someone please explain? I heard St. George in Grenada, Ross University and American University of Antigua are great schools. What are the pros and cons of going to med school in the Caribbeans? I am a freshman in Queens College aspiring to be a doctor (still undecided on what type of doctor), and I am new to the forums. So if this question was already asked, I apologize.

Thank you guys for your time.
Click to expand...

Caribbean schools show that working hard in undergrad and getting a good MCAT score isn't important to being a physician. They want money and low achieving students want a MD, it's a backdoor way to get into the profession without putting the in the necessary work to be successful.

They're degree mills.
 
I go to a DO school (NSU) in Ft Lauderdale and part of my 2nd year curriculum requires me to head to outpatient clinics where I do a mixture of shadowing and taking histories/physicals. One of the clinics was an underserved clinic down in North Miami, where the majority of people spoke either Spanish or Creole, and it happened to be a rotation site for Ross and AUC 3rd years. My experience is anecdotal and an n=2 sample size but I have bumped into a third year from each school in that clnic, both claiming to have averaged around 80% during their preclinical years.

I am personally in the bottom half of my class, and I am usually deferential to upperclassmen, but during the brief time I had with them I was answering more of the pimping questions and coming closer to the dx's and when that happens it makes me wonder because I don't have a high opinion of my clinical knowledge at all. I don't think Carribean people are trained well. I don't think they are necessarily less capable because many go on to become competent physicians but from the brief time I was with my third year Ross/AUC counterparts they definitely need more time to get acclimated to the clinical setting. The best I can descibe them as far as knowledge was that they were a mess of random factoids and the way they took histories and physicals had no order or sense to them. One would ask a few questions, then do part of a physical, ask a couple more questions, do some more tests and wasn't able to take classic symptoms and come up with even two or three common differentials for them. The other would go through a complete history/review of systems, listen to the heart and lungs and wasn't able to come up with any sort of ddx at all. It was embarassing, especially given the fact that I'm a 2nd year and not comparable to the majority of my own classmates. Anyway, my current experience with Carribean guys is that those 3rd years are going to get their murder on when residency starts. I know there are kick ass students that come from the islands, but that middle 50th percentile isn't looking too good.

N=2. Take it for what it's worth.
 
Oh, and the guy at AUC's third year was all over the eastern seaboard. Sounds like a nice way to spend your rotations, doesn' tit.
 
ILikeDrugs said:
🙄🙄🙄

Xenophobia. Such an excellent quality to see in a person.
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I think you need to check the definition of that word.... the guy you are trying to berate has a point...most/all of those Caribbean schools are in third world countries where electricity and other basic comforts of daily living are not always available

476515678234896 said:
Caribbean schools show that working hard in undergrad and getting a good MCAT score isn't important to being a physician. They want money and low achieving students want a MD, it's a backdoor way to get into the profession without putting the in the necessary work to be successful.

They're degree mills.
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they're not degree mills since the majority of students at most of those schools never get any sort of degree
 
skinMD said:
they're not degree mills since the majority of students at most of those schools never get any sort of degree
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Lol so true... the poster you quoted is way off base.
tiedyeddog said:
There have been a couple of new US allopathic medical schools open up and existing schools have added more seats. However, government funding of residency positions has stayed more or less stagnant. What does this mean?

It means it is becoming much, much harder for FMGs(Foreign Medical Graduates) to land spots in a US residencies. This is because FMGs are usually(NOT ALWAYS, DONT EAT ME) the last rung PD's go to to fill residency seats.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to clarify, FMG =/= IMG. An FMG is a non-US citizen that went through medical training abroad, and these have even lower match rates than IMG's. In this sense IMG is a term referring to US citizen that goes through medical training abroad, so whereas an FMG is actually a foreigner (hence, Foreign Medical Graduate) an IMG is a simply a student that, instead of going to a US allo/osteopathic school, went abroad (all of the students that live in the US and go Caribbean are International Medical Graduates, because as applicants they aren't actually foreign.)
 
I believe the Carib is a vastly depreciating asset. So many people don't match, and many don't even pass boards, and matching isn't going to go up anytime soon with the expansion of US med schools. And those who do match are over represented in the not as desirable specialties. A doctor is a doctor but US schools do a good job of separating the noise from the signal by only letting in those competent enough to pass boards and graduate. The Caribs have a much less stringent screening process and let in a lot of people who fail out (with huge debt!)
 
So i get to the bottom of this thread, and what do I see?

An ad for St. George's University haha:laugh:
 
skinMD said:
they're not degree mills since the majority of students at most of those schools never get any sort of degree
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Agreed. After checking it out..you are indeed right that the majority of the students who enroll don't end graduating, hence...not "degree mills". I'm not sure if this is because of general incompetence or because Caribbean schools are hard (which they're not known to be).
 
476515678234896 said:
Agreed. After checking it out..you are indeed right that the majority of the students who enroll don't end graduating, hence...not "degree mills". I'm not sure if this is because of general incompetence or because Caribbean schools are hard (which they're not known to be).
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they're not hard, seeing as the students come out so far below par. As a result, I'm pretty sure it's the former -- on both schools' AND the students' parts.
 
NeilSaha said:
I hear a lot of people degrade Caribbean Medical School. I've been wondering for a while now as to why this happens. What's wrong with attending a Caribbean Medical School? Can someone please explain? I heard St. George in Grenada, Ross University and American University of Antigua are great schools. What are the pros and cons of going to med school in the Caribbeans? I am a freshman in Queens College aspiring to be a doctor (still undecided on what type of doctor), and I am new to the forums. So if this question was already asked, I apologize.

Thank you guys for your time.
Click to expand...

Every educational system has a bottleneck of sorts. For domestic medical schools the bottleneck is the admissions process. Once you gain admission you can be confident that you have the intellectual aptitude to complete the training, and the school has made a significant investment in you. In other words, from that point forward the educational structure is rooting for you to graduate and move on.

Caribbean medical schools, on the other hand, put the bottleneck at the other end of med school. Admission standards are low, getting through is a free-for-all, and landing a residency can be challenging.

That said, if you are contemplating going the Carib route, you should pause and consider the circumstances behind this decision. There are some people who are very bright and capable, but they perhaps blew a few semesters of undergrad for the usual reasons (blonds and brew) and don't feel like doing years of GPA repair. These folks tend to come through Caribbean training just fine, graduate, match, and get on with their lives.

If, on the other hand, you are not a competitive candidate for domestic schools because you are lazy and/or not-so-bright, going Carib will eat you alive. As they say, garbage in, garbage out.

So, before taking the plunge you need to have an honest conversation with yourself, and see if you're more in the expediency camp or the wing-and-a-prayer camp. The schools will be happy to take your money either way.
 
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