What's wrong with homeopathy?

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Awesome

The placebo response is about far more than the pills - it is about the cultural meaning of a treatment, our expectation, and more. So we know that four sugar pills a day will clear up ulcers quicker than two sugar pills, we know that a saltwater injection is a more effective treatment for pain than a sugar pill, we know that green sugar pills are more effective for anxiety than red, and we know that brand packaging on painkillers increases pain relief.
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I'm going to have to do a pubmed search later on the placebo effect. I had no idea it was so varied or powerful.
 
As long as they can't get married, I'm fine with it.
 
There's nothing wrong with it, unless you're sick then there's that whole messy ethical argument about giving people false hope and stuff...
 
DredPiratRobrts said:
There's nothing wrong with it, unless you're sick then there's that whole messy ethical argument about giving people false hope and stuff...
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Well, there is also the messy ethical argument that homeopathy is a lie and dupes people out of money. Not to mention the messy ethical argument that comes when those who espouse homeopathy give patients faulty medical advice. And the fact that there is a subset of "alternative medicine" that wishes to be considered primary physicians that endorses the idea of homeopathy.
 
sgglaze said:
Great article explaining exactly that:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/nov/16/sciencenews.g2
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Interesting read. Thank you.

Yeah, there was a free lunch lecture on homeopathy at my school. Not a lot of hard science behind a lot of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm open to hearing about a lot of things - but present us hard evidence or clinical evidence that taking these things work.

Otherwise I feel a lot of this is taking advantage of unsuspecting people. The speaker tried to make the entire lunch session a history of homeopathy and then talked about some of the drugs...


...well at least they gave us a free luch 🙂
 
Interesting side-tidbit; NYMC used to be a school of homeopathy back in the day.
 
Wonderful column.

"Homeopathy was invented before we knew what atoms were, or how many there are, or how big they are. It has not changed its belief system in light of this information."
 
PeepshowJohnny said:
Wonderful column.

"Homeopathy was invented before we knew what atoms were, or how many there are, or how big they are. It has not changed its belief system in light of this information."
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Same goes for every other branch of CAM.
 
This is a very interesting question. I was born and raised in a European country where homepathy is big. Homeopaths first have to have a medical degree and residency and then specialize in homeopathy. I have been cured with hoemopathy for my whole life, influenzas, colds, skin rushes, infections of any kind, and so on. Homeopaths also do not believe in vaccinations for the youngs (besides obviously hepatitis, polio, and the such). So I never got vaccinated for the flu, measles, mumps, rubella chicken pox and had all of them. The only time I took an antibiotic was after kidney stones.
I have been working in a public school for the last 4 yrs and never got the influenza (even when the whole school was out with it), never had to call out sick. I do believe that letting the body fight against diseases early in life makes its immune system a lot stronger (well of course within certain limits).
It's going to be tough for me to prescribe antibiotics for something like a sinus infection. I know that homeopathic medicines work great and do not have the side effects antibiotics have. Can I tell you why? No. But as long as it works I'm happy.
 
I recommend people taking a medical anthropology class sometime -- very very interesting. I took a medical anthropology class that was taught by a professor who has extensively studied alternative medicine and has written many articles and has proven over and over again that most alternative medicine practitioners work on the placebo effect. Very interesting.
 
plauto said:
It's going to be tough for me to prescribe antibiotics for something like a sinus infection. I know that homeopathic medicines work great and do not have the side effects antibiotics have. Can I tell you why? No. But as long as it works I'm happy.
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:laugh:
 
plauto said:
This is a very interesting question. I was born and raised in a European country where homepathy is big. Homeopaths first have to have a medical degree and residency and then specialize in homeopathy. I have been cured with hoemopathy for my whole life, influenzas, colds, skin rushes, infections of any kind, and so on. Homeopaths also do not believe in vaccinations for the youngs (besides obviously hepatitis, polio, and the such). So I never got vaccinated for the flu, measles, mumps, rubella chicken pox and had all of them. The only time I took an antibiotic was after kidney stones.
I have been working in a public school for the last 4 yrs and never got the influenza (even when the whole school was out with it), never had to call out sick. I do believe that letting the body fight against diseases early in life makes its immune system a lot stronger (well of course within certain limits).
It's going to be tough for me to prescribe antibiotics for something like a sinus infection. I know that homeopathic medicines work great and do not have the side effects antibiotics have. Can I tell you why? No. But as long as it works I'm happy.
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Hate to say this, but when you start medical school you will need to get those vaccines. No sense in killing off your patients because of your beliefs. Plus, you will need an influenza vaccine every year or they won't let you into the hospitals. Getting chicken pox the normal way sets you up for shingles when you are older and that's not a good thing.

All I have to say for the effectiveness of homeopathy for colds is that a cold lasts for a week when treated and 7 days when not treated. Whatever makes you happy I guess, just don't spend all of your money.
 
plauto said:
This is a very interesting question. I was born and raised in a European country where homepathy is big. Homeopaths first have to have a medical degree and residency and then specialize in homeopathy. I have been cured with hoemopathy for my whole life, influenzas, colds, skin rushes, infections of any kind, and so on. Homeopaths also do not believe in vaccinations for the youngs (besides obviously hepatitis, polio, and the such). So I never got vaccinated for the flu, measles, mumps, rubella chicken pox and had all of them. The only time I took an antibiotic was after kidney stones.
I have been working in a public school for the last 4 yrs and never got the influenza (even when the whole school was out with it), never had to call out sick. I do believe that letting the body fight against diseases early in life makes its immune system a lot stronger (well of course within certain limits).
It's going to be tough for me to prescribe antibiotics for something like a sinus infection. I know that homeopathic medicines work great and do not have the side effects antibiotics have. Can I tell you why? No. But as long as it works I'm happy.
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Sorry to say this, but all you are demonstrating is a pretty fundamental misunderstanding about how the immune system works.

I think if you get into medical school you'll have some pretty eye-opening experiences.
 
Well I agree that I might have gone a little too far and am certainly looking forward to med school and immunology. As for the vaccines, I had all of them done (except inlfuenza) for my undergrad so no problems there.

What I'd like to point out though is that a lot of people, especially abroad, take homeopathic drugs for a wide spectrum of diseases and they work well.
 
plauto said:
This is a very interesting question. I was born and raised in a European country where homepathy is big. Homeopaths first have to have a medical degree and residency and then specialize in homeopathy. I have been cured with hoemopathy for my whole life, influenzas, colds, skin rushes, infections of any kind, and so on. Homeopaths also do not believe in vaccinations for the youngs (besides obviously hepatitis, polio, and the such). So I never got vaccinated for the flu, measles, mumps, rubella chicken pox and had all of them. The only time I took an antibiotic was after kidney stones.
I have been working in a public school for the last 4 yrs and never got the influenza (even when the whole school was out with it), never had to call out sick. I do believe that letting the body fight against diseases early in life makes its immune system a lot stronger (well of course within certain limits).
It's going to be tough for me to prescribe antibiotics for something like a sinus infection. I know that homeopathic medicines work great and do not have the side effects antibiotics have. Can I tell you why? No. But as long as it works I'm happy.
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did you even read the article?
 
TMP-SMX said:
Getting chicken pox the normal way sets you up for shingles when you are older and that's not a good thing.
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<--- Has had chicken pox twice as a child, before the vaccine was widely available.

🙁
 
plauto said:
What I'd like to point out though is that a lot of people, especially abroad, take homeopathic drugs for a wide spectrum of diseases and they work well.
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The fact that they are widely used, I can accept.

The fact that they work well? Bollocks.
 
TMP-SMX said:
Getting chicken pox the normal way sets you up for shingles when you are older and that's not a good thing.
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Does the vaccine avoid the possibility of shingles? I had two professors who couldn't agree on this. It's a live attenuated vaccine, the question is, is it attenuated enough so that reactivation isn't possible?
 
Hayden2102 said:
The fact that they are widely used, I can accept.

The fact that they work well? Bollocks.
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Well, I am here telling you they work on me. I have no reason to lie to you.

I'm trying to find the % of people using them in different countries to see actually how widely spread hoemopathic drugs are. If I find good sources I'll post them.
 
plauto said:
Well, I am here telling you they work on me. I have no reason to lie to you.

I'm trying to find the % of people using them in different countries to see actually how widely spread hoemopathic drugs are. If I find good sources I'll post them.
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It doesnt matter what % of people do something. Most people are uneducated and not espically intelligent.

Edit: And the fact that you assure us all that it works, and expect us to believe you, show you have no idea how the scientific process, and medicine work. Ive seen patients come in and tell the surgeon I was shadowing that "no way did my smoking cause my heart attack. Smoking relaxes me!"
 
BlackSails said:
It doesnt matter what % of people do something. Most people are uneducated and not espically intelligent.

Edit: And the fact that you assure us all that it works, and expect us to believe you, show you have no idea how the scientific process, and medicine work. Ive seen patients come in and tell the surgeon I was shadowing that "no way did my smoking cause my heart attack. Smoking relaxes me!"
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It seems to me that you want to hear only what you think it's right. You are entitled to your opinion. I don't expect you to believe anything. I am just describing my experience. If you think that homeopathic medicines never work you are in denial though.
 
plauto said:
It seems to me that you want to hear only what you think it's right. You are entitled to your opinion. I don't expect you to believe anything. I am just describing my experience. If you think that homeopathic medicines never work you are in denial though.
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I doubt you're going to get anyone on here to agree with you on this one.

I'm not here to put down your beliefs or what you seem to have experienced in the past, but unless you're going to say that it works by magic or through spiritual mechanisms, there there is no scientific basis or evidence that it works beyond just the usual possible placebo effect. Studies looking at the studies that DID show some effect have found numerous design flaws in them.

I'll also add that if it is supposed to work through the mechanisms that people say it works through that it should be able to be put through the properly designed tests and trials and show a significant effect.

I personally am religious and like to think that I have a fairly open mind, but when it comes religion and someone's beliefs there's a point where something just can not be "scientifically" tested due to the nature of it.....you're getting into faith and beliefs. So if homeopathy wants to be lumped into that "category" then fine, but I think it's silly to insist that it works the way it does and to market the remedies as true "drugs" with no scientific basis.
 
I was leafing through a 'principles of psychiatric diagnosis' book (which included lots of pretty pictures of pills and such), and it was funny...in the 'alternative medicine and therapy' chapter, it had osteopathy listed right underneath oriental medicine. lol.
 
nlax30 said:
I doubt you're going to get anyone on here to agree with you on this one.

I'm not here to put down your beliefs or what you seem to have experienced in the past, but unless you're going to say that it works by magic or through spiritual mechanisms, there there is no scientific basis or evidence that it works beyond just the usual possible placebo effect. Studies looking at the studies that DID show some effect have found numerous design flaws in them.

I'll also add that if it is supposed to work through the mechanisms that people say it works through that it should be able to be put through the properly designed tests and trials and show a significant effect.

I personally am religious and like to think that I have a fairly open mind, but when it comes religion and someone's beliefs there's a point where something just can not be "scientifically" tested due to the nature of it.....you're getting into faith and beliefs. So if homeopathy wants to be lumped into that "category" then fine, but I think it's silly to insist that it works the way it does and to market the remedies as true "drugs" with no scientific basis.
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I agree with you for the most part. I am no expert of homeophaty, just a user and have really no arguments to prove you right or wrong.

I am not, like a previous arrogant poster implied, uneducated, not intelligent, and oblivious to the scientific method. I think that keeping an open mind is important. I replied in this forum just for my 2 cents.

Just keep in mind that there are people out there who succesfully use homeopathic drugs for many everyday diseases. And we are not all stupid and uneducated....
 
TheLesPaul said:
I was leafing through a 'principles of psychiatric diagnosis' book (which included lots of pretty pictures of pills and such), and it was funny...in the 'alternative medicine and therapy' chapter, it had osteopathy listed right underneath oriental medicine. lol.
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Outside the United States, that certainly would be correct. If this book was published here in the US for an American readership, then it was (a) published before osteopathic medicine started practicing evidence-based medicine, (b) written by an "old-school" MD who didn't believe that osteopathic medicine was "real" medicine, or (c) written by a non-physician who didn't do his research.
 
plauto said:
Just keep in mind that there are people out there who succesfully use homeopathic drugs for many everyday diseases. And we are not all stupid and uneducated....
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Surprisingly, most people, even if they do nothing, will recover from most illnesses. When your grandmother has a heart attack, are you going to tell her to see a cardiologist, or to drink pure water?



Question: My water supply comes from rain water. Rain water has been in contact with just about every single substance in the entire world. Am I healthy because I am constantly injesting homeopathic cures for everything?

Also, are there homopathic remedies that are dangerous?
 
Dakota said:
Does the vaccine avoid the possibility of shingles? I had two professors who couldn't agree on this. It's a live attenuated vaccine, the question is, is it attenuated enough so that reactivation isn't possible?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's been around long enough yet for that to be determined. There have been some people that said it will increase the cases of shingles widely just because more people would be in contact with the virus that wouldn't have gotten it through the normal route. I guess we'll have to see.
 
plauto said:
It seems to me that you want to hear only what you think it's right. You are entitled to your opinion. I don't expect you to believe anything. I am just describing my experience. If you think that homeopathic medicines never work you are in denial though.
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I have to disagree that treatment efficacy is a matter of opinion. There are many reasons you could think that homeopathy is the cause of you getting better, hell the placebo effect suggest that the mere thought itself could be one of the reasons. This doesn't mean that somehow homeopathic remedies are actively causing you to get better. If someone gave you a zinc dilution instead of an arsenic dilution but you thought it was the appropriate one even though homeopathy dictates otherwise you would get the same effect, namely the placebo effect.

Also, as a doctor you are compelled to evaluate efficacy scientifically (at least ideally, I think) and saying something worked for you should not be a valid defense of a treatment especially as homeopathy has been shown to be equal to a placebo repeatedly.
 
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