When choosing a MD/PhD program...

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When choosing a MD/PhD program, which one has more weight: the strength of the graduate program or the strength of the medical school?

I know... ideally, the school should be strong in both. But if you can't decide between two schools, should you ultimately choose the one that has the better graduate program/the one that best fits your interests?

 

[dmblue]

If you know you want your phd in something specific like bme, then go with the school that has better research. However, it's important to realize that you are introduced to a lot of knew science fields in the first two years, and many people change there minds. If you are speaking about a specific decision you can either post it here to get better feedback or pm people if you want anonymity.

 

[EaglesPA]

Definitely the strength of the medical school. It will come into play when applying for residency (if you go for a competitive one).
For the Phd, the important thing is finding a good mentor with whom you can have a good project, be able to publish and graduate on time.

 

[MDhater]

Not to be an jerk, but EaglesPA that was a foolish response

Absolutely 100% the research aspect is FAR more important.

Your doing an MD/PhD to become a PI, a researcher, NOT a doctor, and anyone who tells you otherwise is a waste of this type of programs money.

Always go to the school with better research, you will absolutely get into a great residency no matter what as long as your USMLE is high and you have an MD/PhD, i swear to this, look at the Mudphud matches, everyone does well

On another note, consider why your doing this... do you really want to be a researcher forever? because if you do, then you would clearly follow your heart and choose the best research program, negating the need to ask this question

 

[EaglesPA]

Not to be an jerk, but EaglesPA that was a foolish response

Absolutely 100% the research aspect is FAR more important.

Your doing an MD/PhD to become a PI, a researcher, NOT a doctor, and anyone who tells you otherwise is a waste of this type of programs money.

Always go to the school with better research, you will absolutely get into a great residency no matter what as long as your USMLE is high and you have an MD/PhD, i swear to this, look at the Mudphud matches, everyone does well

On another note, consider why your doing this... do you really want to be a researcher forever? because if you do, then you would clearly follow your heart and choose the best research program, negating the need to ask this question

Wow, "MDhater", for a pre-med you are really full of yourself!!
If it was all about just research you would be doing a PhD not an MD/PhD!!
Any way, come back and give advise of this type AFTER you've gone through the process.
OP, like I said, go with the stronger medical school....PIs move, research interests change all the time. In many cases, the stronger med school will have a broad base of researchers to choose a PI from - the exception is if you very sub-sub-sub- specialized research interests - which is usually not the case when starting out.

 

[Freak]

I agree with EaglesPA and am also an MD/PhD student.

So, in terms of being 100% research, actually if you listen to the MSTP directors, they always tell you strive for a 75/25 or 80/20 research/clinical split.

You do have to worry about the match to go into a competitive speciality even as an MSTP. Matching is getting harder for MSTPs as well as they want more clinical grades/qualifications before ranking.

 

[Neuronix]

Definitely the strength of the medical school. It will come into play when applying for residency (if you go for a competitive one).
For the Phd, the important thing is finding a good mentor with whom you can have a good project, be able to publish and graduate on time.

I think among MSTPs in the top-40 USNews research rankings, you're just splitting hairs when it comes to residency perception of med school. I don't think that matters. I get way too many pre-meds PMing me talking about picking among top-10 schools based on USNews research rankings. Do you really think that going to say Penn over say Duke for MSTP matters? What about Penn vs. Cornell or Hopkins vs. Baylor? I'd say it all doesn't matter. It's much more about individual performance. My advice is to to the school with the location you like and the research you think matches your interests.

Or is there some other measure of "strength"? Cause at the #2 med school we can't even put in foleys or touch central lines.

Not to be an jerk, but EaglesPA that was a foolish response

Absolutely 100% the research aspect is FAR more important.

Your doing an MD/PhD to become a PI, a researcher, NOT a doctor, and anyone who tells you otherwise is a waste of this type of programs money.

Always go to the school with better research, you will absolutely get into a great residency no matter what as long as your USMLE is high and you have an MD/PhD, i swear to this, look at the Mudphud matches, everyone does well

On another note, consider why your doing this... do you really want to be a researcher forever? because if you do, then you would clearly follow your heart and choose the best research program, negating the need to ask this question

Hello there pre-med, welcome to the forum. You hate MDs and you're going to med school? Wow, we haven't had an MD/PhD forum troll in awhile.

We've had 5 MD/PhDs not match from my program in the past 2 years. Everyone does well? No. The people who don't do well aren't going on the matchlists.

As for clinical vs. research... Why do >95% of MD/PhDs do residency? Because they are and want to be practicing physicians. Are they all wasting the MSTP grant funding? Or is it an MD/PhD program . Surely, the stated goal of most MSTPs is to train majority researchers, but you put in a lot of time training clinically, and the majority of MD/PhDs keep practicing clinically after their programs are completed. It is foolish to call us all a waste of money. My PD is on clinical service right now. I guess he's a waste of money too .

Do you really want to be a researcher forever? Go to graduate school.

 

[Shifty B]

So, the last post is right in pointing out that there is not a whole heck of a lot of difference in closely grouped medical schools. Penn, Duke, Baylor.. whatever. However, there might be a lot of difference in the atmosphere at the medical school. Are the first two years graded? Is it competitive? The feel at a medical school can be very important.

However, it can be very difficult to choose a program based on the strength of a specific research area. For one, it's hard to judge as an applicant. It can look like there are a lot of investigators in an area are there but you may learn that it's less than you think.

Second, a lot can change by the time you start graduate studies full time. A history of strength in your broad area of interest/department is probably more important than specific researchers or research areas. Say you're interested in genetics of Alzheimer's disease, and a place has 3 great investigators in that area that you all like. In 3 years, two of them could leave to go to the University of X and one could retire. Now your program has no genetics of AD investigators. There is a lot of fluctuation in these graduate departments and it's faster and more common than most people think.

 

[gbwillner]

As those who know me can already guess, I think the graduate training is more important in picking a program. However, as others have said eliquently, it depends on a lot of factors.

I agree the quality of medical training in the top 20-40 programs is on par. Does it make a difference if you go to Harvard over Vandy? Maybe somewhere down the line, but I can tell you based on the match results I've seen- Not a lot.

On the other hand, graduate training varies significant from program to program. I'm not going to say you should go to one place over another because there are 3 Alzheimer's guys at one place and that's what you are interested in. Your interests in lab specifics are likely to change. However, your general field probably won't. IMHO, if you are interested in Neuroscience you are much better off going to program A with a slightly weaker medical program and 40 neuroscience faculty members (probably very strong) than program B with a "better" medical program and 12 neuroscience faculty members. In program A you are more likely to succeed- you are more likely to find a good mentor and not drop out. Of course, this may be an extreme example. In reality all quality programs with have similar strengths and then your choice may come down to something specific to you (like you need to go somewhere with Au Bon Pain within walking distance). For some people this is location, for others it's cost of living. I made a table of all my programs and ranked them based on a variety of criteria. In the end, however, the programs on top where also the ones I liked on "gut feeling". Ultimately I ended up choosing between acceptances on the quality of the genetics program, and it turned out great for me. Of course, I can't say it would have worked out any different had I gone to another school...