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C’mon now. The only thing required to maintain certification is a valid credit card. These “courses” are all just pay to play. Everyone passes. Yes, a serious and professional physician should stay up to date but that is not what is happening with MOC....While I do not believe the process of MOC is very well done, I 100% support the idea of it. Being a physician is a privilege and it is a privilege that society allows us to regulate ourselves. Unless you want to argue that the day you get board certified you should never have to open another book or read another journal or take another test and should be good for life, that means we either regulate ourselves or ask non physicians to do it for us.
Lifetime certification is a dumb idea. I see docs out there that got certified in the 1970s and still practice like it and I would not want one of my family members being treated by them.
Someone has to be paid to sit on their ass while AMCs and CRNAs salt and burn the fieldOver the summer, Wesby Fisher was pushing for funds so he set up a go fund me page which i donated into. I believe it was for this suit.
Its all a freakin racket. I ve known it since ever.And to @Psai,youre not sure what you re paying for?
Youre funding many peoples lavish lifestyle. Including those directors in the ASA and ABA. I say unfund all of them.
Unjoin all the professional societies including the ASA because they support MOCA.
DO you have to pay your college a fee everyyear for maintenance of education?
While I do not believe the process of MOC is very well done, I 100% support the idea of it. Being a physician is a privilege and it is a privilege that society allows us to regulate ourselves. Unless you want to argue that the day you get board certified you should never have to open another book or read another journal or take another test and should be good for life, that means we either regulate ourselves or ask non physicians to do it for us.
Lifetime certification is a dumb idea. I see docs out there that got certified in the 1970s and still practice like it and I would not want one of my family members being treated by them.
While I do not believe the process of MOC is very well done, I 100% support the idea of it. Being a physician is a privilege and it is a privilege that society allows us to regulate ourselves. Unless you want to argue that the day you get board certified you should never have to open another book or read another journal or take another test and should be good for life, that means we either regulate ourselves or ask non physicians to do it for us.
Lifetime certification is a dumb idea. I see docs out there that got certified in the 1970s and still practice like it and I would not want one of my family members being treated by them.
Nonsense. You have to do CMEs to maintain your medical license anyway. MOCA adds nothing of value.
What's wrong with just having the old CME system but making sure that 50% or more of the credits are anesthesia related?
While I do not believe the process of MOC is very well done, I 100% support the idea of it. Being a physician is a privilege and it is a privilege that society allows us to regulate ourselves. Unless you want to argue that the day you get board certified you should never have to open another book or read another journal or take another test and should be good for life, that means we either regulate ourselves or ask non physicians to do it for us.
Lifetime certification is a dumb idea. I see docs out there that got certified in the 1970s and still practice like it and I would not want one of my family members being treated by them.
While I do not believe the process of MOC is very well done, I 100% support the idea of it. Being a physician is a privilege and it is a privilege that society allows us to regulate ourselves. Unless you want to argue that the day you get board certified you should never have to open another book or read another journal or take another test and should be good for life, that means we either regulate ourselves or ask non physicians to do it for us.
Lifetime certification is a dumb idea. I see docs out there that got certified in the 1970s and still practice like it and I would not want one of my family members being treated by them.
My ex-wife is a PH.d in mathematics. Seriously. She got it perhaps 11 years ago. She currently runs our flower shop and has for the past 10 years. The only math she does is calculate how much i owe her every month. Does that make her Doctor of Philosophy degree null and void? Does she have to take a math test every few years to maintain it. NOPE..MOC is specialty specific. As I said, I've seen docs certified in the 1970s that haven't advanced since then but they are still board certified.
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I think part of the problem is that the standard for getting something eligible for CME is so low as to be pointless. Doing CME basically means you have a pulse.
MOCA should not be this costly nor this ill-designedWhile I do not believe the process of MOC is very well done, I 100% support the idea of it. Being a physician is a privilege and it is a privilege that society allows us to regulate ourselves. Unless you want to argue that the day you get board certified you should never have to open another book or read another journal or take another test and should be good for life, that means we either regulate ourselves or ask non physicians to do it for us.
Lifetime certification is a dumb idea. I see docs out there that got certified in the 1970s and still practice like it and I would not want one of my family members being treated by them.
Agree 100%. Would you rather be policed by your peers or a pencil pushing clip board toting monkey in a suit or someone who could no longer hack it as a nurse. Bureaucracy is not your friend. Everyone say it with me as this bears repeating:
Bureaucracy is not your friend.
The rising cost of healthcare closely parallels the increase in medical administration.
So, how has MOCA made that situation better? Are they exempt from MOCA?Lifetime certification is a dumb idea. I see docs out there that got certified in the 1970s and still practice like it and I would not want one of my family members being treated by them.
Is the ABA not considered a bureaucracy? A bureaucracy is a non-elected, policy-making, administrative group.
As I said, I've seen docs certified in the 1970s that haven't advanced since then but they are still board certified.
But doesn't that just prove the point of all the other posters? Doesn't it just prove that MOC isn't doing what you are suggesting is the intent?
HH
(unless MOC is only for the anesthesiologists who have been recently board-certified...I am not an anesthesiologist, so I don't really know)
Do you advocate also making maintenance of education for college diplomas? how about high school? Medical school?
It's the same thing.
You are correct - MOC is only required by recently BC anesthesiologists. Interestingly, the guys making the rules at the ABA don't have to live by them.
My ex-wife is a PH.d in mathematics. Seriously. She got it perhaps 11 years ago. She currently runs our flower shop and has for the past 10 years. The only math she does is calculate how much i owe her every month. Does that make her Doctor of Philosophy degree null and void? Does she have to take a math test every few years to maintain it. NOPE..
nobody is arguing that we should revoke MD or DO degrees from physicians that do not participate in specialty certification
Part of the problem I see from a general standpoint is how easy it is to get CME these days.If you can't bill or work or be employable without board certification/eligibility and the MOC game, they might as well revoke the degree.
I think board certification has value, but I'm not sure lifetime cert is really a bad thing. If you want to work, you have to maintain a license and hospital credentials, which require ongoing CME and peer review, respectively.
We can point at bad doctors who have lost their licenses or credentials.
Can we point to any bad doctors who've been weeded out of practice by MOC? No? Then what good is it?
If the execution of something is consistently poor (the way all MOC is in all specialties), it's a stretch to think a little tweaking will fix it.Part of the problem I see from a general standpoint is how easy it is to get CME these days.
Uses to be you could only get it by actually going to meetings. Now I can get my state-required 40 hours in under an hour with online stuff where I may or may not actually learn anything.
I think MOC is a good concept, it just needs tweaking.
You are correct - MOC is only required by recently BC anesthesiologists. Interestingly, the guys making the rules at the ABA don't have to live by them. And yes I've definitely seem some weird-ass practice by guys who don't participate in MOC and often seem proud to not keep current with evidence with anesthesiology or fields that tangentially touch it. MOC should be required. It needn't be exorbitantly expensive. It also should be useful. I find that the ASA puts out excellent CME each year.
See I personally do find benefit in the FM MOC. I have yet to do any MOC-specific stuff where I didn't learn something.If the execution of something is consistently poor (the way all MOC is in all specialties), it's a stretch to think a little tweaking will fix it.
I agree CME is too easy to get. But isn't that what MOC is? CME with an extra markup and better profit margins?
Anyway, the real strength of our ongoing "competence certification" is credentialing and peer review, and to a lesser extent insurability. That can be weak at some hospitals, and it can be gamed, to an extent and for a while, but it's the ideal process. And MOC has nothing to do with it.
Why doesn't MOC have a peer review component? The obvious answer is because they can't charge us for it.
it is a similar argument. The value of going through the board certification process serves you your whole career as does a degree in a particular subject. Even if you never do anything to further the degree as in the case of my ex-wife The suggestion that it should be time limited cheapens the entire process and metric.nobody is arguing that we should revoke MD or DO degrees from physicians that do not participate in specialty certification
See I personally do find benefit in the FM MOC. .
While I do not believe the process of MOC is very well done, I 100% support the idea of it. Being a physician is a privilege and it is a privilege that society allows us to regulate ourselves. Unless you want to argue that the day you get board certified you should never have to open another book or read another journal or take another test and should be good for life, that means we either regulate ourselves or ask non physicians to do it for us.
Lifetime certification is a dumb idea. I see docs out there that got certified in the 1970s and still practice like it and I would not want one of my family members being treated by them.
The lifetime certification docs are few in number compared to those requiring recert, and within a few more years we will all be gone. MOC on the other hand, is a many year process as envisioned in its current iteration by the ABA, therefore would not capture grandfathered docs who will retire soon.
I am far too lazy to look it up, but what percentage of officers at the ABA are not participating in MOCA? I mean I assume it's 0 but I'm willing to be surprised.
The capitalists have created a new multi billion dollarscam in less then ten years.Two fundamental problems with MOC
-the process is focused more on extracting money from participants than protecting patients
-the default should be certification, not expiration
You can actually blame this one on the lawyers. In the good old days when you could be credentialed ( and stay credentialed) by the hospital and insurance companies with only board eligibility, the ABA had to play nice otherwise everyone would just not get certified. Once hospitals and insurance companies, probably out of fear of lawsuits decided that everyone needed certification the certifying boards had us by the short hairs and quickly did away with lifetime certification... and the rest quickly followed.The capitalists have created a new multi billion dollarscam in less then ten years.
That is impressive stuff. It is extortion.
And we are the absolute suckers who go along with it.
I cannot believe any one would even think this is anything other.
Sort of how they just created another step to the USMLE.
and everyone sort of when along with it without questioning it.
complete and utter horse####
Also far too lazy to look up. I did go so far to look up the board of directors at the ABA. Almost all looked > 50. I don't know how lifetime cert is/was granted or when it was phased out, but most docs I know > 50 are not required to do MOC.
I cannot fathom a single reason why guys like @algosdoc or @BLADEMDA do MOC. Out of the goodness of your heart? Caring nothing about $$$? Certainly you shouldn't feel obligated. I find it a complete and total waste of time, resources, and $$$. The ABA could easily require we do anesthesiology-specific CME, of which the ASA has great resources, for MOC. I do feel we should do something, but the current setup feels like a scam and treats us like children.
You can actually blame this one on the lawyers. In the good old days when you could be credentialed ( and stay credentialed) by the hospital and insurance companies with only board eligibility, the ABA had to play nice otherwise everyone would just not get certified. Once hospitals and insurance companies, probably out of fear of lawsuits decided that everyone needed certification the certifying boards had us by the short hairs and quickly did away with lifetime certification... and the rest quickly followed.
What is really needed are interventions by courts and/or state law. We already pay significant amounts of money to the state for medical liscences. Why should someone liscened by the state to practice medicine have to jump through any more hoops? Not being able to get credentialed is a de facto limitation on your ability to practice.You are absolutely correct!!!
Once they got the hospitals and the insurance companies on board, they couldn't resist the money making opportunity and they started charging an ongoing entrance fee (in the name of patient saftety) of course.
And we're falling for this hook line and sinker. At least some of us aren't.
What they don't realize, well maybe they do is that this whole scheme cheapens the whole process. It means nothing if everyone achieves it. Sort of like putting on your CV diplomate of the NBME Part 1,2 ,3.