when is it too late to start getting interested in rad onc?

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I have been interested in rad onc on and off throughout 4 years (been interested in oncology for a long time).... however I was not always sure if I would have the numbers for rad onc. I am now nearing the end of 3rd year. Is it too late for me? The soonest I could do an elective in radonc would be July.

top 25% of class
not AOA (prob won't be senior AOA either)
step 1: 248
oncology research w/ abstract
3rd year grades mostly P and HP

My institution has a 2 or 3 rad onc spots.

Thanks for your advice.

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I think your grades and step1 are fine. The most helpful thing you could do to strengthen your app is to get involved in a rad onc project now. It doesn't have to be anything big, in fact it would be better to have a project that you could finish in the next few months. Having something out there shows interest in the field and will open more doors for you, even for less academically oriented programs.
 
I have been interested in rad onc on and off throughout 4 years (been interested in oncology for a long time).... however I was not always sure if I would have the numbers for rad onc. I am now nearing the end of 3rd year. Is it too late for me? The soonest I could do an elective in radonc would be July.

top 25% of class
not AOA (prob won't be senior AOA either)
step 1: 248
oncology research w/ abstract
3rd year grades mostly P and HP

My institution has a 2 or 3 rad onc spots.

Thanks for your advice.

If it makes you feel any better, you are basically a mirror-image of me one year ago (in terms of numbers and timeframe). Whether or not that is a good thing will be clearer in about 20 days, but still....

My advice is to get in with your PD/chair at your program ASAP, talk to them about their interest and try your best to get involved in a project, as the first poster suggested. Don't be bashful about stating that you want to get find a project that is likely to result in publishable work.

Good luck.
 
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I've recently thought about radonc as well.

I was always under the impression it was an insanely competitive field and as such, was scared away from it initially. My stats are similar to the OP.
 
I've recently thought about radonc as well.

I was always under the impression it was an insanely competitive field and as such, was scared away from it initially. My stats are similar to the OP.

I think that the original poster's numbers, if you add in some rad onc-specific research, are very respectable for this field. Maybe not for MDACC or UCSF, but solid no less.
 
Try to do another away rotation in addition to home institution, especially with a big name for another letter of recommendation. Some say to do it at a place that is either out of your reach possibly (such as Harvard or Anderson) or you really want to go to. Watch out for the away, as you can still get a good rec but may not get an interview since all you need to do is rub one person the wrong way. Aways at Harvard, Sloan, or Anderson probably would not hurt. A letter from Jay Harris, D'Amico, Zeitman, Cox or Buchholz could really help. Heard aways at Penn are really fantastic as you are paired up with 1-2 attendings (and not just with a different one every few days).

Try to get some research in. Too short of a time for basic science. Consider either physics or clinical research. Deadline for ASTRO for abstracts is March 15th. If you'd be willing to try to do something in the next week or two (or just ask around if there are any projects that need just some extra work) maybe you can get something to one of these meetings (or to RSNA). However, don't bank on that since residents will be wanting to go present also. Other meetings to submit to include ASCO or Radium or RRS or the joint disease site specific meetings (such as H&N meeting joint between ASCO and ASTRO). Just try to have something presented (abstract) because your interviewers will ask you about your research. If you can publish, that's better.

If you are a superstar at taking standardized tests, consider taking Step 2. However, this may not necessarily help (and may hurt if you are not a great test taker). I did not do that but had similar scores.

Do a medicine sub-internship and try to get honors. Attendings want to make sure you are strong both research and clinically.

If you really want to put more time in, consider doing a year of research. If that's not feasible, it's no big loss either since almost everyone matches.

Also, if you decide to go into medicine or radiology or some other field, people can still change, though it is harder. The PD at Seattle was formerly an attending in peds. At least two current residents at big institutions were former rads residents (at big institutions). The interview trail had several people who were applying after PGY1 in medicine or radiology. There's also stories of people who drop out of rad onc from big programs. Life is always fluid.

Suggestion: Talk to your department chair. Ask a nice resident for advice. Ask a current MS4 for advice (who just finished applying). Do the rotation at your home institution. Do some onc research (clincal preferably) and submit it. Sign up for an away rotation in September at latest. By the time you finish your home rotation (July) you'll know if you like it and should pursue the away. Some people love it. Some of my friends found it mind-numbingly boring (all you do is draw those circles...). Some surgery friends found clinic to be excruciatingly painful. Remember that the allure of radiation oncology in recent years has been a lot due to somewhat "negative things" (reimbursement, good hours) that very well could change very quickly, so make sure you'd be willing to do this job, even if you're making less than your friends in plastic surgery or radiology. Apply broadly. don't be shy about expressing your interest in a program after the interview. Make sure you don't too much (ask friends) as it could really backfire. There are stories of people being too aggressive...ask around and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Lastly, if you're religious, pray. If you're spiritual, meditate. If you're not, relax. If you're neurotic, make sure you don't rub people the wrong way (and try to keep it to yourself). Good luck.
 
I think that the original poster's numbers, if you add in some rad onc-specific research, are very respectable for this field. Maybe not for MDACC or UCSF, but solid no less.

That's awesome. I'm definitely going to try speaking with my home program director to see if I can get more involved in a research project of some sort.
 
the impressions post above is ideal advice for a 3rd or 4th year just getting interested. the bar is not high for ASTRO. 1100 of 1600 abstracts were accepted, so try to fall into something soon. research research research trumps grades, scores, letters, and personality (although steph and others disagree). i've seen more than enough people with the personality of wallpaper get in b/c of research, versus someone with the charm of princess diana fail to match b/c no research. one 2nd author pub tripled my interviews in 1 year. i did not turn into a nicer person that year (maybe more humble, i guess maybe i was more of a jerk, since i was in the middle of intern hell).

s
 
Deadline for ASTRO for abstracts is March 15th.

If you are a superstar at taking standardized tests, consider taking Step 2. However, this may not necessarily help (and may hurt if you are not a great test taker). I did not do that but had similar scores.

Do a medicine sub-internship and try to get honors. Attendings want to make sure you are strong both research and clinically.

If you really want to put more time in, consider doing a year of research. If that's not feasible, it's no big loss either since almost everyone matches.

Deadline for ASTRO abstracts is March 17 at 11:59pm.

I am no superstar at taking standardized tests, but I took Step 2 early to show an improvement from my Step 1 score (~230). I went up 20+ points, which several interviewers mentioned and seemed to be impressed by. I think that taking Step 2 is important for those of you who might be worrying about whether your Step 1 score is "good enough".

I did not do a medicine sub-I. I don't feel like this is particularly important. Programs evaluate you clinically from your 3rd year performance and rad onc rotation(s). Do a medicine sub-I if you really like medicine, but not to show how clinically competent you are.

Taking a year off just to do research is a little overkill in most cases. You can get a project or two completed during med school if you do something clinical or something related to dosimetry/physics. I'm sure most med schools allow you some research electives during your 4th year like my school does - use them. I managed to get a couple of projects finished in 3 months. I thought about taking time off to do research, but now realize I would have regretted it. Residency programs aren't looking for you to publish groundbreaking new work. What you do can be on a much smaller scale, but the important thing is to just have a finished project to talk about during interviews. And obviously the more research you have, the better.
 
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