When should you begin looking for a job?

[Function Doctor]

I'm a PGY-3 not going into fellowship. Ideally I'd like to have both inpatient/outpatient practice, but am also considering subacutes. I'm primarily looking to stay in Illinois, but am willing to travel to the Wisconsin and Indiana. I was wondering what the job market has been like for you guys and if you had any recommendations? When should I start applying? What is fair compensation/benefits? Pitfalls to avoid?

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[j4pac]

I'm a PGY-3 not going into fellowship. Ideally I'd like to have both inpatient/outpatient practice, but am also considering subacutes. I'm primarily looking to stay in Illinois, but am willing to travel to the Wisconsin and Indiana. I was wondering what the job market has been like for you guys and if you had any recommendations? When should I start applying? What is fair compensation/benefits? Pitfalls to avoid?

I’m a PGY-2 and I know where I want to live so I have reached out to physician recruiters of the major players in the two cities I’m considering. I have three employers who probably have me alone on a list when jobs get announced during the summer.

I knew someone who signed as a PGY-2. They paid him a signing bonus and gave him a stipend to retain him throughout residency. You know what you want...go get it.

 

[Doctor Christmas]

I’m a PGY-2 and I know where I want to live so I have reached out to physician recruiters of the major players in the two cities I’m considering. I have three employers who probably have me alone on a list when jobs get announced during the summer.

I knew someone who signed as a PGY-2. They paid him a signing bonus and gave him a stipend to retain him throughout residency. You know what you want...go get it.

What you mention aboutsomeone signing as a GY2 is exceptionally rare, and he must have signed in a really undesirable location where no one can be gotten. In competitive markets, practices sometimes are hesitant to even consider PGY-4's if they inquire too early in the year. Realistically starting to look early in 4th year makes sense. Even then might be early. Numerous practices have told me - well we need someone now not in 9 months.

 

[j4pac]

What you mention aboutsomeone signing as a GY2 is exceptionally rare, and he must have signed in a really undesirable location where no one can be gotten. In competitive markets, practices sometimes are hesitant to even consider PGY-4's if they inquire too early in the year. Realistically starting to look early in 4th year makes sense. Even then might be early. Numerous practices have told me - well we need someone now not in 9 months.

It was a combination of the right job, the right location, and the right applicant. He was a very strong resident at a very strong program...and the job was confident in the person he was and the training he was going to get. His employer was also very interested in investing in someone from a world recognized training program...it’s good for marketing. Obviously...it was an exceptionally rare scenario but it absolutely can happen. I’ve known MANY people who has signed in their PGY-3 year.

Yes...I suppose I can wait until 6 months before graduation to start looking for jobs. But I rather do the work up front to market myself...lots of jobs get filled before they are even posted. I want to be in the drivers seat and quite frankly, I want competition. I don’t see a downside to reaching out to employers...other than the time spent sending out CVs.

 

[Doctor Christmas]

It was a combination of the right job, the right location, and the right applicant. He was a very strong resident at a very strong program...and the job was confident in the person he was and the training he was going to get. His employer was also very interested in investing in someone from a world recognized training program...it’s good for marketing. Obviously...it was an exceptionally rare scenario but it absolutely can happen. I’ve known MANY people who has signed in their PGY-3 year.

Yes...I suppose I can wait until 6 months before graduation to start looking for jobs. But I rather do the work up front to market myself...lots of jobs get filled before they are even posted. I want to be in the drivers seat and quite frankly, I want competition. I don’t see a downside to reaching out to employers...other than the time spent sending out CVs.

I think the OP is asking for an average timeframe, not for the rare exceptions that happen. In competitive markets, it will be challenging at best. In non-competitive markets, sure, you can be in the driver's seat. Many of us have exceptional characteristics and go to exceptional programs. The average employer outside of academics does not care in the least where people went, and neither do patients nor do they have any idea of programs. It's silly to think that a practice, hospital, etc will pay you more based on where you went. I think you will find out when you search for jobs. Again go to a competitive market and you will find pretty fierce competition - don't think you are the only person with "world recognized training programs." Few people are special snowflakes, and you will be very disappointing in thinking that employers will go to the end of the world or will dig up their pockets for certain programs vs. others. Look at the RIC graduate list - enough said.

 

[j4pac]

I think the OP is asking for an average timeframe, not for the rare exceptions that happen. In competitive markets, it will be challenging at best. In non-competitive markets, sure, you can be in the driver's seat. Many of us have exceptional characteristics and go to exceptional programs. The average employer outside of academics does not care in the least where people went, and neither do patients nor do they have any idea of programs. It's silly to think that a practice, hospital, etc will pay you more based on where you went. I think you will find out when you search for jobs. Again go to a competitive market and you will find pretty fierce competition - don't think you are the only person with "world recognized training programs." Few people are special snowflakes, and you will be very disappointing in thinking that employers will go to the end of the world or will dig up their pockets for certain programs vs. others. Look at the RIC graduate list - enough said.

Of course more competitive markets are more competitive...but wouldn’t it be prudent to give yourself an advantage over other applicants in that situation...especially if there is no downside? The OP is looking for jobs in Wisconsin and Indiana...and unless he/she is looking for academic jobs at say UI, MCW, or UW, I'd say that the jobs would be unlikely to be unbelievably competitive. If you plan on applying for jobs in say Chicago (which I suspect many of the RIC grads are) or NYC...two oversaturated areas...good luck. But with that said...there is practically no downside to looking early. Many jobs are not announced and fill without an intense physician recruitment job. Physician recruitment is typically not free to employers...so if they can get a someone they like without that expense and headache...they might bite. I know of two physicians who were not recruited by a physician recruiter and actually used that as a way to increase their signing bonus. I've known a number of people to get jobs that were NEVER announced on job board sites. Networking can get you a job...as I have seen on a number of occasions.

The majority of employers will not want to hire someone years in advance...but there is a decent number of employers who have a general sense of what may be opening at certain times.

Right now, out of the four employers who have gotten back to me in the past two weeks.
Hospital 1: will get back to me in the summer when upcoming openings become known
Hospital 2: will get back to me in the summer when upcoming openings become known
Hospital 3: one inpatient job will be available Summer 2019. there is about a 50% chance of a primarily outpatient job being available starting summer 2019. I told them that I was not interested in a 100% inpatient job, and they will be getting back to me in the summer about the outpatient opening. But if I wanted the inpatient job...they would have arranged for an interview.
Hospital 4: I will have a meeting with the department chair this Spring, and they are anticipating knowing whether or not there will be expansion by the late spring 2018.

 

[DubVille]

Most start in mid-late fall of pgy 4. Often sign by winter to early spring. A lot of practices/hospitals don’t know their budget before the new year. Anecdotally, in our program most knew by feb or March,but a lot of us did fellowships. Of this years fellows, 2/4 have contracts they haven’t agreed to, other 2 still looking and interviewing.

 

[cowboydoc]

If you know a specific area you want to be, it's not that hard to figure out the market. Do NOT get a recruiter involved. They can make 18-25% of your first year's salary for finding you and someone has to pay for that. Talk directly with employers internal recruiter, send your CV and a cover letter. Drop it off at the front desk of a PP office. A system likely can give you a signing bonus, and $1000-2000/month your last year of residency goes a long way. Unlikely a PP office will float you much in advance. Not having to pay a recruiter is a big savings for the employer, and you may be able to negotiate some of that into your pocket.

If you know what you want and are a solid candidate, you look like you're on the ball. You may land a job that isn't yet available. There isn't necessarily a "too early" timeframe to be looking, just don't leave a bad first impression that you'll never shake.

 

[Doctor Christmas]

If you know a specific area you want to be, it's not that hard to figure out the market. Do NOT get a recruiter involved. They can make 18-25% of your first year's salary for finding you and someone has to pay for that. Talk directly with employers internal recruiter, send your CV and a cover letter. Drop it off at the front desk of a PP office. A system likely can give you a signing bonus, and $1000-2000/month your last year of residency goes a long way. Unlikely a PP office will float you much in advance. Not having to pay a recruiter is a big savings for the employer, and you may be able to negotiate some of that into your pocket.

If you know what you want and are a solid candidate, you look like you're on the ball. You may land a job that isn't yet available. There isn't necessarily a "too early" timeframe to be looking, just don't leave a bad first impression that you'll never shake.

The job I recently interviewed for is a private practice in a hospital, and I went directly through the main physician hiring for the group. I sent my CV, had a phone and then in person interview. No bonus, no relocation, just the 170K and the rvu. That's all. That's why I'm asking. This is in Chi town area. I know what I want and I am solid but the jobs that are out are the jobs that are out there and they pay what they pay. There's no way to make 170 250 or something like that. There's no way they will move that much. I have yet to see all the mentioned above in my market. Which is quite sad.