When students start saying " enough is enough" interesting post from DT

[Demeter]

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I'm curious as to when students are going to start saying "enough is enough" to the rising tuition costs and will pursue another career. Until that happens we are going to continue to have these unethical schools like University of Southern Nevada (the one in Salt Lake City) that are raking their students over the coals. Once the students stop pursuing a career in dentistry, it will be interesting to see how many schools have to close shop and how many will be dropping their tuition rates.
As for these guys coming out with $400,000-500,000 in student loans, their student loan payment will be about $3,000 a month. That's $3,000 just for student loans that are stretched out for about 30 years!!!!! That means they need to be making about $5,000 (after taxes you are left with the $3k) a month just to afford their student loans. So, even if they had free rent, free utilities, free food, free transportation and didn't spend any money on clothes or entertainment, these poor suckers need to be making $60,000 a year just to pay their student loans. 30 years of that kind of burden is unthinkable.
The only viable option for them is to go the corporate route as there is no possible way to purchase a practice and handle that debt load as well.
-This post was taken from dental town

 

[Demeter]

I will be the first to say that $400,000 for a dental degree is not worth it. It just isn't. $400,000 for a degree, $400,000 for a practice and $250,000 for a modest home and you are over a million in debt for a job (if you can find one) that nets ~$100,000 after taxes but before debt service. You'd be financially better off spending the years in school working your way up to be a store manager at McDonald's or Domino's.

If you are going into that much debt you would be better off going to medical school. That field has it's own set of problems that I don't envy, but at least they aren't overproducing physicians to the point that new grads can't find jobs.

The dental school in Salt Lake City is a joke and the people responsible for it should be ashamed of themselves. They are knowingly putting students into a lifetime of debt for a sucky job in a state where a dentist netting $90,000 has hit the big time. In my mind, it is nothing short of immoral.
- this post was teken from dental town

 

[SoulPower]

Why ask a rhetorical question on a forum?

but seriously I don't get it either, new schools opening.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

I'm curious as to when students are going to start saying "enough is enough" to the rising tuition costs and will pursue another career. Until that happens we are going to continue to have these unethical schools like University of Southern Nevada (the one in Salt Lake City) that are raking their students over the coals. Once the students stop pursuing a career in dentistry, it will be interesting to see how many schools have to close shop and how many will be dropping their tuition rates.
As for these guys coming out with $400,000-500,000 in student loans, their student loan payment will be about $3,000 a month. That's $3,000 just for student loans that are stretched out for about 30 years!!!!! That means they need to be making about $5,000 (after taxes you are left with the $3k) a month just to afford their student loans. So, even if they had free rent, free utilities, free food, free transportation and didn't spend any money on clothes or entertainment, these poor suckers need to be making $60,000 a year just to pay their student loans. 30 years of that kind of burden is unthinkable.
The only viable option for them is to go the corporate route as there is no possible way to purchase a practice and handle that debt load as well.
-This post was taken from dental town

Here is how I look at it - if you don't want to pay the tuition, don't apply or attend the school. Plain and simple. USN is a private school, so they have to pay for the new building and the cost of running it somehow. Schools like Harvard have big, old money helping fund them. A school like Loma Linda is supported by the SDA church. They can keep the costs down in comparison to USN. In the end, someone has to pay for the costs of the education. Since it is a private school, it is not the tax payers. So, it has to be those attending the schools.

In the end, they are supplying a skilled trade to meet a deamnd in the market. They are charging what is needed to run the school. How I look at it - if you cannot get into anywhere else and you really want to be a dentist, then you either suck it up and pay the tuition, or improve your application and try again next year. It comes down what are you willing to sacrifice to reach your dream of becoming a dentist. Yes, that is a lot of money, but if you live within your means for 10 years you can pay it off just fine or you can join the military!

 

[Daurang]

Once you start making decent money to justify the sacrifice for your education, you can't deduct your student loans interests and you're likely hit with a 70% marginal tax rate...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...6443893352153776.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read

I not sure if it's worth it anymore. Keep in mind past performance is never a guarantee of future returns.

 

[yappy]

hmmm... 4-500k.... My ADEA book says 213k - still expensive but why raise an issue that doesnt exist?

At 100k after taxes and frugal living this 213 can be taken care of in 3-4 years. After loans repayed the income that is roughly 3-4+ the national average. I'm guessing that is why there is a market for highly priced dental schools. I agree with Navy DDS - if you feel it isn't worth it dont apply or go. Or look into military repayment or some other function to pay down loans.

 

[whathashizzyDDS]

how much is tuition over there?

 

[omaralt]

take my opinion with a grain of salt; but i definitely dont think it's worth it after you get above $350K. keep in mind initially it may "only" appear to cost you $350K for 4 yrs, but keep in mind that tuition increases every year and add in the interest accruing during school and that $350K becomes $400K by the time you graduate. your talking about ~$3K/month for a 25 yr repayment schedule. and keep in mind to pay $3K/month you need to be earning about $4.5K before taxes.. AND THIS IS FOR 25 YRS OF YOUR LIFE!! IMO once you get to that obscene number you NEED to look into joining the military or HSPS or something to prevent you from accruing that much debt that will be a burden on you for the majority of your career. with the military; even if you dont enjoy it; it'll only be a burden for 4 yrs and then your done w/no debt weighing you down.

 

[Roto Picante]

HPSP has been a great option for me. Out of state tuition and fees plus cost of living would put in me in about $340,000 in debt at my school. (That isn't just a random number, 60k for tuition and fees and 25k for living allowance) It just wasn't worth it to me so I joined the military. Not receiving letters in the mail reminding me how much mula I owe the government and how much interest is accruing has been a great relief. Yes you can argue I owe them 4 years of my life but there are many more financial benefits, in my opinion, that make it a much better option than 340K plus interest accrued over the life of the loan.

 

[therock21]

Even at 400k I think d-school is a great investment. Imagine putting 400k down and receiving an average of 200k a year for 30 years, sounds like a great investment to me.

 

[mr24]

👍 I'm glad I won't be 400k in debt but if that was my only option you better believe I would do it!

Even at 400k I think d-school is a great investment. Imagine putting 400k down and receiving an average of 200k a year for 30 years, sounds like a great investment to me.

 

[Noble6]

Even at 400k I think d-school is a great investment. Imagine putting 400k down and receiving an average of 200k a year for 30 years, sounds like a great investment to me.

There are plenty of other ways to make money that don't involve 400 - 600K in student loans and another half million to a million in practice debt.

I agree, these private schools are ridiculous but they're just a result of naive predents thinking dentistry is their golden ticket to riches.

 

[KSDental]

Even at 400k I think d-school is a great investment. Imagine putting 400k down and receiving an average of 200k a year for 30 years, sounds like a great investment to me.

Most dentists making 200k a year have their own practice. It takes additional money to start one unless you inherit one from your parents. Additionally, the 400k doesn't include the interest that is tacked on every year. Once you borrow the 400k you are under a lot of pressure to make 200k a year, just to maintain a middle class lifestyle. Therefore, dentistry is only lucrative if you keep your costs down. This includes education and the cost of starting a practice.

 

[want to drill]

There are plenty of other ways to make money that don't involve 400 - 600K in student loans and another half million to a million in practice debt.

I agree, these private schools are ridiculous but they're just a result of naive predents thinking dentistry is their golden ticket to riches.

Naive huh? You should probably talk to all of the people who have attended any of these schools listed as "private" (according to ADEA) before you start throwing naive around. There are more private schools than one might think.

http://www.adea.org/publications/tde/Documents/2010 Dental Schools list.pdf

I agree with some of the posts... If it is someone's dream to become a dentist, why do YOU really care how much it costs the person to do it? 😕 You aren't the one who has to pay back their student loans unless they leave dentistry and join a convent! I haven't talked to any pre-dents who realistically expect to come out and make 200K/year in their first 5 years. If you feel that the field is saturated, then don't set up a practice where it is saturated. Makes sense to me.

The dentists I have shadowed have all said that the old dentists are waiting to retire when the economy turns around a bit. Once that does, they feel like there will be a shortage of dentists. The dentist that I shadowed that is on the state board told me that he doesn't feel that all of the new dental schools will impact the field much at all, mainly because of the reason I mentioned above.

 

[Noble6]

Naive huh? You should probably talk to all of the people who have attended any of these schools listed as "private" (according to ADEA) before you start throwing naive around. There are more private schools than one might think.

http://www.adea.org/publications/tde/Documents/2010 Dental Schools list.pdf

I agree with some of the posts... If it is someone's dream to become a dentist, why do YOU really care how much it costs the person to do it? 😕 You aren't the one who has to pay back their student loans unless they leave dentistry and join a convent! I haven't talked to any pre-dents who realistically expect to come out and make 200K/year in their first 5 years. If you feel that the field is saturated, then don't set up a practice where it is saturated. Makes sense to me.

The dentists I have shadowed have all said that the old dentists are waiting to retire when the economy turns around a bit. Once that does, they feel like there will be a shortage of dentists. The dentist that I shadowed that is on the state board told me that he doesn't feel that all of the new dental schools will impact the field much at all, mainly because of the reason I mentioned above.

I know how many private schools there are. Some of them provide a quality education at a reasonable cost. Some of them also provide a quality education at a ridiculous cost and those are the ones I'm talking about.

It's not as much about saturation as it is about changing the dynamic of the profession. Meaning less private practice and more dental mills.

The point is, predents that are still more or less undecided need to be open minded about other career choices that are likely just as rewarding. And they need to be concientious of the incredible amount of debt they will incur at some of these schools if they choose to go.

 

[peanutb123]

Enough is enough?...

if one student says that or even 1000 students say that guess what there will be 7k+ students who would take that seat in a heart beat and pay the tuition with loans.

Just b/c one person throws their hands around doesn't mean everyone will follow. Its interesting how these threads seem to pop up right in the beginning stages of the application cycle.

 

[txaggie03]

Here is how I look at it - if you don't want to pay the tuition, don't apply or attend the school. Plain and simple.

Spot on.



To use other products as examples to see how ridiculous complaining about high tuition is...

When will consumers stop buying Ferraris? I mean when will Ferrari close up shop? $400k for a car! That's just insane.

When will consumers stop buying million dollar homes? I mean when will home builders close their businesses?

When will consumers stop buying Pom pomegranate juice? $4 dollars for 16oz of juice!! When will juice makers stop this insanity?





The point I am trying to make is that as long as someone will buy it, the price wont be coming down. And just as peanutb123 points out, there isnt exactly a lack of pre-dents willing to fill those seats.

 

[want to drill]

Spot on.



To use other products as examples to see how ridiculous complaining about high tuition is...

When will consumers stop buying Ferraris? I mean when will Ferrari close up shop? $400k for a car! That's just insane.

When will consumers stop buying million dollar homes? I mean when will home builders close their businesses?

When will consumers stop buying Pom pomegranate juice? $4 dollars for 16oz of juice!! When will juice makers stop this insanity?





The point I am trying to make is that as long as someone will buy it, the price wont be coming down. And just as peanutb123 points out, there isnt exactly a lack of pre-dents willing to fill those seats.

Exactly! I am however curious how high tuition could go..... One dentist I shadowed came out with 40k in student loans and 20k of it was from a difficult pregnancy for his wife! I'm sure that they could not have imagined d-school costing as much as it does now.

 

[yappy]

It would interesting to adjust that for inflation and look into how much was covered by the state.

Exactly! I am however curious how high tuition could go..... One dentist I shadowed came out with 40k in student loans and 20k of it was from a difficult pregnancy for his wife! I'm sure that they could not have imagined d-school costing as much as it does now.

 

[Noble6]

Spot on.



To use other products as examples to see how ridiculous complaining about high tuition is...

When will consumers stop buying Ferraris? I mean when will Ferrari close up shop? $400k for a car! That's just insane.

When will consumers stop buying million dollar homes? I mean when will home builders close their businesses?

When will consumers stop buying Pom pomegranate juice? $4 dollars for 16oz of juice!! When will juice makers stop this insanity?





The point I am trying to make is that as long as someone will buy it, the price wont be coming down. And just as peanutb123 points out, there isnt exactly a lack of pre-dents willing to fill those seats.

True, and this point has been made a number of times on these boards. The gist of this thread however is to get people (ie predents) to take a closer look at what they're doing.

One common misconception of a student is to look at average gross income as take home income. Not the same. Even with the Bush tax cuts in place (which our wonderful president would love to do away with) a 100K income puts you in the 28% tax bracket. That turns 100K into 72K. Big difference... and makes it harder to pay those loans back. The more money you make, the more you are taxed.

Huge student loan debt doesn't help the practitioner, the patient, or the profession.

 

[txaggie03]

Which is why I am a big proponent of either a flat tax, or a consumption tax IN PLACE of the income tax.

 

[SoulPower]

I don't understand why we just don't do a flat tax to start out with? Maybe they tried at some point and realized the government isn't making enough money to pay its own responsibilities. Seems like the most obvious way to tax people.

 

[mr24]

I don't understand why we just don't do a flat tax to start out with? Maybe they tried at some point and realized the government isn't making enough money to pay its own responsibilities. Seems like the most obvious way to tax people.

Because rich people are evil, so they must be punished!!

 

[SoulPower]

Because rich people are evil, so they must be punished!!

Well maybe the super rich, people who's bonuses are in the area of $100k to 1mil.

They're pure evil.

 

[m1817]

a 100K income puts you in the 28% tax bracket. That turns 100K into 72K.

The 28% tax rate is on the marginal amount of taxable income after deductions and exemptions. The tax on 100K of gross income is in the neighborhood of 19K for single filers or 14K for people filing as married filing jointly assuming the standard deduction and the minimum exemptions.

Single Filers
$0 – $8,500 . . . . . . . . . 10% of taxable income
$8,500 – $34,500 . . . . . $850 plus 15% of excess over $8,500
$34,500 – $83,600 . . . . $4,750 plus 25% of excess over $34,500
$83,600 – $174,400 . . . $17,025 plus 28% of excess over $83,600
$174,400 – $379,150 . . $42,449 plus 33% of excess over $174,400
$379,150+ . . . . . . . . . . $110,016.50 plus 35% of excess over $379,150

Married & Surviving Spouses
$0 – $17,000 . . . . . . . . 10% of taxable income
$17,000 – $69,000 . . . . $1,700 plus 15% of excess over $17,000
$69,000 – $139,350 . . . $9,500 plus 25% of excess over $69,000
$139,350 – $212,300 . . $27,087.50 plus 28% of excess over $139,350
$212,300 – $379,150 . . $47,513.50 plus 33% of excess over $212,300
$379,150 . . . . . . . . . . +$102,574 plus 35% of excess over $379,150

With student loan interest, 401K savings, and a health saving account, you could bring your taxes down even lower.

BTW, with a flat tax or a consumption tax, you don't get a tax break for your student loan interest.

 

[txaggie03]

BTW, with a flat tax or a consumption tax, you don't get a tax break for your student loan interest.

The benefits of a flat tax or a consumption tax is that in both of those instances, EVERYONE has some skin in the game. And if everyone has skin in the game, then hopefully, they will be a little more concerned about where and what it is getting spent on.

I favor the consumption tax even more. With it, people who are scrimping and saving and trying to make do, will obviously being paying less. Those who are less-frugal will suffer. The way it should be, in my opinion.

 

[Aceofspades]

With student loan interest, 401K savings, and a health saving account, you could bring your taxes down even lower.

BTW, with a flat tax or a consumption tax, you don't get a tax break for your student loan interest.

I don't know why everyone thinks they can just deduct their student loan interest and be A-OK. There are income limits that most dentists will surpass. In addition there are limits to the amount you can deduct.

As for the flat tax I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. There is a great chance that if enacted it will be in ADDITION to existing taxes and contain vague language hidden in 3,000 plus pages of legislation. The lobbyists will load up the bill with so many loopholes, regulations, and corporate giveaways that I doubt most people's tax burden will decrease at all.

 

[whodat4life]

The benefits of a flat tax or a consumption tax is that in both of those instances, EVERYONE has some skin in the game. And if everyone has skin in the game, then hopefully, they will be a little more concerned about where and what it is getting spent on.

I favor the consumption tax even more. With it, people who are scrimping and saving and trying to make do, will obviously being paying less. Those who are less-frugal will suffer. The way it should be, in my opinion.

.

 

[whodat4life]

The benefits of a flat tax or a consumption tax is that in both of those instances, EVERYONE has some skin in the game. And if everyone has skin in the game, then hopefully, they will be a little more concerned about where and what it is getting spent on.

I favor the consumption tax even more. With it, people who are scrimping and saving and trying to make do, will obviously being paying less. Those who are less-frugal will suffer. The way it should be, in my opinion.

Amen! I couldn't agree more. It just seems like it would even things out, and it doesn't punish success. No matter what walk of life one comes from, we all use the same roads, schools, etc...so everyone should have to pay. Not just the evil rich. If they pay all the taxes, they should be the only ones living here, IMHO. I'm getting so sick of hearing people complain about someone making too much, I mean as long as we all pay our share (all equally taxed)..it shouldn't matter. If one doesn't like where he/she is in life...work hard and make something happen. Before someone starts trying to make me feel bad, I've seen many people overcome obstacles that I couldn't believe. If you want something and are willing to put in effort to make it happen, you will be rewarded.

 

[SoulPower]

I don't know why everyone thinks they can just deduct their student loan interest and be A-OK. There are income limits that most dentists will surpass. In addition there are limits to the amount you can deduct.

As for the flat tax I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. There is a great chance that if enacted it will be in ADDITION to existing taxes and contain vague language hidden in 3,000 plus pages of legislation. The lobbyists will load up the bill with so many loopholes, regulations, and corporate giveaways that I doubt most people's tax burden will decrease at all.

Honestly this is probably true. But it's really not the way a flat tax should be. What you are saying and I agree with is that politicians are corrupted by who pays them campaign money, which we know. But hopefully at somepoint in the future this will be fixed about american legislation; I just don't know how.

 

[whodat4life]

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

-Dr. Adrian Rogers (1984) - one of my favorite quotes!

 

[Cold Front]

The 28% tax rate is on the marginal amount of taxable income after deductions and exemptions. The tax on 100K of gross income is in the neighborhood of 19K for single filers or 14K for people filing as married filing jointly assuming the standard deduction and the minimum exemptions.

Single Filers
$0 – $8,500 . . . . . . . . . 10% of taxable income
$8,500 – $34,500 . . . . . $850 plus 15% of excess over $8,500
$34,500 – $83,600 . . . . $4,750 plus 25% of excess over $34,500
$83,600 – $174,400 . . . $17,025 plus 28% of excess over $83,600
$174,400 – $379,150 . . $42,449 plus 33% of excess over $174,400
$379,150+ . . . . . . . . . . $110,016.50 plus 35% of excess over $379,150

Married & Surviving Spouses
$0 – $17,000 . . . . . . . . 10% of taxable income
$17,000 – $69,000 . . . . $1,700 plus 15% of excess over $17,000
$69,000 – $139,350 . . . $9,500 plus 25% of excess over $69,000
$139,350 – $212,300 . . $27,087.50 plus 28% of excess over $139,350
$212,300 – $379,150 . . $47,513.50 plus 33% of excess over $212,300
$379,150 . . . . . . . . . . +$102,574 plus 35% of excess over $379,150

With student loan interest, 401K savings, and a health saving account, you could bring your taxes down even lower.

BTW, with a flat tax or a consumption tax, you don't get a tax break for your student loan interest.

You can't deduct student loan interest rates from your 1040, unless your income is under $75k a year (that equates to $300 a day full time employment). If a dentist met this criteria, after paying taxes on the $75k, that brings his/her take home down to $50k a year (or $4k a month). Can someone pay their school loans off from $4k a month and still make a living?

I think we will see corporate dentistry and military offering more and better loan repayment programs to future grads, without increasing associate dentist incomes. Since private practice can't compete with these deals, a large segment of future doctors will be forced to go into military or corporate dentistry (it's already happening with companies like Aspen Dental). This will create a shift in the long run that will bring private practice, as we know it, to a smaller share of dental office market. Unless tuition comes to a plateau, which I highly doubt it will.

 

[mike3kgt]

Naive huh?

...

I agree with some of the posts... If it is someone's dream to become a dentist, why do YOU really care how much it costs the person to do it? 😕

Were you alive during 2007-2010? Don't you remember that it was millions of peoples dreams to own a house? Don't you recall what happened after people bit off more than they could chew?

Tell me what the difference between the housing melt-down and what you are proposing? Yes it's the dream of so many pre-dents to become a dentist just as it is the dream of many to own a house.

What is the difference between 1) the person who wants to buy a house they cannot or should not afford and going into substantial debt just because of the perception the home value will rise or have a low interest loan that one can pay for now and will silently multiply and those who 2) want to become a dentist at any cost with the perception they will be able to have a high salary to service the loan? Both are pretty big assumptions... Now that I would consider those assumptions naive.

I certainly remember the housing meltdown because I bought a condo that I could pay for and because of the fault of so many people either 1. taken advantage of or 2. taking advantage of, I lost a lot of money and heartache because I had to change life plans because of it. I see a similar future for student loan debt... especially in dentistry.

It's impossible to have a number that is too much to pay for dental school because it depends on the person and what they consider "too much". I can, however, assure you that anything above 350k is incredibly difficult to work with once you graduate.

 

[txaggie03]

What is the difference between 1) the person who wants to buy a house they cannot or should not afford and going into substantial debt just because of the perception the home value will rise or have a low interest loan that one can pay for now and will silently multiply and those who 2) want to become a dentist at any cost with the perception they will be able to have a high salary to service the loan?

One has a tangible asset as collateral, while the other's terms grant it immortality from bankruptcy.

 

[DrFIXmyTOOTH]

The student loan bubble, it will explode eventually. Than again, our whole government is about to explode. Save dentistry and America...Ron Paul revolution.

 

[WastedTime]

when other careers can provide the benefits of a dental career...

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

You can't deduct student loan interest rates from your 1040, unless your income is under $75k a year (that equates to $300 a day full time employment).

\

Coldfront, what you are failing to point out here is that your $75,000 value is for a single filer. If you file jointly, then you can claim the student loan interest deduction if the joint MAGI is under $150,000.

 

[mike3kgt]

One has a tangible asset as collateral, while the other's terms grant it immortality from bankruptcy.

Exactly. You further bring up the seriousness of student loans.

So when put in a situation when you overspend on a home, bankruptcy is an option... albeit a terrible option but a possibility of losing everything including the tangible property. Student loans are not that way. You over extend and the handcuffs are on and tighten every year you don't pay them off. Government isn't exactly set up to take away your education.

Well, I suppose mind-control may be in our future... if it's not here already.

 

[ddsjc2014]

I will be the first to say that $400,000 for a dental degree is not worth it. It just isn't. $400,000 for a degree, $400,000 for a practice and $250,000 for a modest home and you are over a million in debt for a job (if you can find one) that nets ~$100,000 after taxes but before debt service. You'd be financially better off spending the years in school working your way up to be a store manager at McDonald's or Domino's.

If you are going into that much debt you would be better off going to medical school. That field has it's own set of problems that I don't envy, but at least they aren't overproducing physicians to the point that new grads can't find jobs.

The dental school in Salt Lake City is a joke and the people responsible for it should be ashamed of themselves. They are knowingly putting students into a lifetime of debt for a sucky job in a state where a dentist netting $90,000 has hit the big time. In my mind, it is nothing short of immoral.
- this post was teken from dental town

No one forced you to go Dental School, So don't bother spending 400k+ which you won't satisfy. Try to spend that money to buy some other business that has potentially much higher risk than stable dentist. just my .02 cents.

 

[Cold Front]

\

Coldfront, what you are failing to point out here is that your $75,000 value is for a single filer. If you file jointly, then you can claim the student loan interest deduction if the joint MAGI is under $150,000.

That's also true. Whether you are married or not, the limit you can write off is upto $2,500 a year. The average new grad has $200k loan (probably more) at 6% interest rate. He/she is paying $12k on interest alone every year on their balance.

 

[bsmcga0]

I remember when I was starting dental school, the financial aid advisor kept repeating that while tuition was going up, so were the fees on the outside.

I do not see fees increasing at all, with insurance companies there are actually decreasing. And it is hard to not accept insurance, at least where I am. Even at my satellite office, I have patients drive an hour away to see a dental mill every 4 weeks because I will not accept their insurance fee (I think there are only two insurances I am not currently signed up with)

 

[wizi]

Imagine being in $400k debt and pay child support + alimony pphew.
Choose your wife carefully and also becareful of what you wish for....

 

[whodat4life]

Imagine being in $400k debt and pay child support + alimony pphew.
Choose your wife carefully and also becareful of what you wish for....

LOL for real! +1

 

[Aceofspades]

Imagine being in $400k debt and pay child support + alimony pphew.
Choose your wife carefully and also becareful of what you wish for....

Not to mention losing half your assets but keeping all your debt in the divorce!

 

[Demeter]

No one forced you to go Dental School, So don't bother spending 400k+ which you won't satisfy. Try to spend that money to buy some other business that has potentially much higher risk than stable dentist. just my .02 cents.

No one put a gun to my head and forced me to go to dental school. I was lucky to graduate in 2005 with 150,000$ debt and 2.9% interest rate. My concern is there will be a student loan bubble, just as in the housing market. That will change our profession for the worse. It already has, as we can see chain clinics popping up like mushrooms all over the country.
Many*of us choose this profession, because it not only*allows us to help other people, but also offers a great lifestyle, good income, decent hours and relative autonomy from insurance companies dictating how we practice.*As more and more students graduate with gigantic student loans we are going to lose this . We will end up like out medical colleagues who work longer hours and are at the mercy of insurance companies that bundle several procedures together to lower the fees. Once the dental insurance companies have control, they will bundle the codes for comp exam, xrays, prophy, fl and create a new code for lower fee.


As the cost of education increase, students will continue to justify the increase and say : I will just work harder when I graduate. I will work longer hours. I will sign up with every insurance company and accept lower fees to get more patients. Now we start losing the lifestyle ( great salary, good hours, autonomy from insurance companies) we had thought we would have after graduation. *Those same students will be desperate to take any job once they graduate, because they are faced with the pressure of paying back 2-3,000 dollars a month for their loans.
As the clinics get flooded with resumes from more and more hungry graduates, they will pay less.

 

[budda10000]

and the solution is.... bust your ass as an undergrad and nail the DAT so you dont have to go to those costly private schools. As price goes up admission stats go down.

 

[mike3kgt]

As the cost of education increase, students will continue to justify the increase and say : I will just work harder when I graduate. I will work longer hours. I will sign up with every insurance company and accept lower fees to get more patients. Now we start losing the lifestyle ( great salary, good hours, autonomy from insurance companies) we had thought we would have after graduation. *Those same students will be desperate to take any job once they graduate, because they are faced with the pressure of paying back 2-3,000 dollars a month for their loans.
As the clinics get flooded with resumes from more and more hungry graduates, they will pay less.

Sad thing is this is happening as we speak and is increasing. Then you set up your dream practice and you're still handcuffed to the contracts of the PPO and cannot give it up because there's 2 new grads moving into your practice neighborhood every year who will do "whatever it takes."

Sad.

 

[yappy]

Luckily most dental schools dont cost students 400k. My state school will cost me ~75k for tuition and equipment - I'm planning on just living on savings as I go through D school for living expenses.

I think there are some unprecedented "ups" to dentistry: such as people now keeping their teeth longer, larger population, glut of dentists going into retirement (see post war infusion).

I think the greatest fear we should all have is how our country is adopting policy to destroy the middle class. For the last 25-35 yrs the income disparity has grown and in the last 10 your average american has had a loss in real wages. I guess what i'm saying is if we keep drinking the supply-side econ stuff and dont realize that it is actually demand that is low we will continue to have problems and see the patient able-to-pay patient base disappear.

To stay on the topic of this thread - the high student loans that students are seeing today will diminish their buying power and lower demand even more.

EDIT: Something important too is that we should keep in mind this is one of the worst economic times in recent history. It is wise to keep that in mind as we're making lifelong decisions to persue or not persue dentistry or anyother career field.