when to get involved as a pre-vet?

[wildfocus]

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don't know if others have had similar experiences - people asking advice on what to do about their and others' pets. the question of when to report owners to animal agencies was a particular topic that came up in one of my interviews - what to do when you suspect animal cruelty as a vet - do you report??

however, what if we are several times removed from the situation?

so here's my real life problem - a classmate, knowing that i am a vet tech, sent me an email full of pictures of his housemate's two cats. they are in makeshift cage that is 2.2' x 2.2' x 2.2' and he complains that they have a dirty box, don't get fed/watered, and have to stay in the cage for ~17 hours. the pics really turned my stomach, and i gave him the usual "talk to the housemate with these various suggestions, here are the phone numbers of shelters, call animal welfare, yada yada..." speech.

WHAT is our place as pre-vets?? and if we get concerned, but are not really involved, is it our place as future vets to interject ourselves into such situations? thoughts? advice?

 

[QTkitty]

I think it's difficult to give a general answer to your question about the pre-vets place because it should be taken on a case by case basis.

In your particular situation, I would report him. He must know that what he's doing to those cats is cruel (at least I wouldn't call it ignorance- maybe negligence). If he isn't willing to give them up or change their treatment immediately then, for the wellbeing of the cats, he should be reported. It is a tough situation, I understand, especially since you aren't directly involved but you have photographs and a person who has directly witnessed it. What it really comes down to for me is getting the cats out of that situation. F that guy and how he feels about it. There are times that owners may treat their animals in certain ways and are simply ignorant that they're causing their pet harm. This situation doesn't sound like that to me...

Good luck with this one and I hope either way the kitties end up in a good home.

 

[wivet2011]

Hmmm. Good question. Obviously if you were observing something like this first hand, I think it would be appropraite to report it to the local animal shelter, animal welfare agency, etc. But, since you're getting this info from someone else, I'm not sure that there is a whole lot that you can do other than what you already did. Maybe I'm wrong...

 

[kate_g]

If you had seen these cats yourself, you'd obviously call the local animal welfare agency (the police department or the local SPCA... whoever it is that has legal jurisdiction in your area to enforce pet-related laws), which would come investigate and probably seize the cats and at least write the guy a ticket. I, personally, would do this anonymously and under no circumstances say "I'm a vet tech, so, you know... I know." Mostly because they won't actually take your opinion any more seriously and it would kind of make you look like a tool. And also because who knows what liability you have if you make a judgment as a licensed professional - this guy's housemate might have grounds to sue you if it turns out he's not breaking any laws.

But you haven't seen these cats in person. For all you know your classmate is trying to frame his housemate over an ugly rent dispute, and you really don't want to play into that by calling animal control based on some pictures that somebody showed you. If he is so concerned, *he* should call in an anonymous tip. If he is unwilling to do this, then you should think that something fishy might be afoot. If you truly believe he's not making it up but he's scared to call, then get him to invite you over to his house, see it for yourself, then make the call yourself (anonymously). And don't get involved beyond that.

Anyway that's my take on it...

 

[FriskyPony]

I definitely agree with Kate, but first maybe you could ask your friend to talk to him about it, and if not, then get the invite over, and maybe talk to the housemate yourself about how that's not ideal conditions? The trick is to not sound condescending and/or how it was planned--I think it'd be ideal if the housemate could get the guy to understand that it's inhumane and there might be a better option for the cats. Does the housemate like cats, if so, maybe he could help out by letting the cats out (and maybe making a room for them to be in instead of the cage when no one is home), etc. Then, after trying to talk to the guy, if he is unwilling to change, then I think its time to do what Kate suggested. Of course, I don't know these people, and I don't know the conditions, so maybe it's already time to call--I guess that's up to you and your friend to decide, unfortunately.

 

[KittenKiller]

da classmate, knowing that i am a vet tech, sent me an email full of pictures of his housemate's two cats. they are in makeshift cage that is 2.2' x 2.2' x 2.2' and he complains that they have a dirty box, don't get fed/watered, and have to stay in the cage for ~17 hours.

The whole situation sounds a little weird. It's not as if identifying animal abuse takes a vet tech's expertise. In addition, your classmate is a *housemate* of the person. Maybe they live together and never talk, but I think that puts a bit of responsibility on him, in my opinion, being an everyday witness to this. Maybe he could offer some help to the guy who's neglecting his cats, offer to feed and water them, offer to let them run around when he's home, etc. Only if those efforts fail, and stern talking-tos fail, would I suggest reporting. And then I would strongly encourage the roommate to make an anonymous tip, not you. If he refuses to do it and wants you to do it instead, well thats a little fishy.

 

[wildfocus]

thanks for all the advice... i am really concerned about the cats, but don't want to do anything inappropriate or get involved in someone else's housemate problems. i've given him all the tips i can, and hinted that maybe a move was in order and an anonymous call to animal welfare. will check in with him every couple of days to see what's up. or maybe i'll put on my superfriends outfit and perform an elaborate rescue mission.

 

[kate_g]

...maybe talk to the housemate yourself about how that's not ideal conditions?

See, that's exactly what I would avoid. People who are "just trying to help" are rarely rewarded. Who knows what this guy's deal is. Abuse of animals and of people are pretty strongly correlated. What if you go over there, ambush the guy, and lecture him about how he should be keeping his cats? And what if he gets all in your face and pushes you? What if he threatens you? The classmate/housemate might be afraid of the same thing, if he knows the guy has a temper or is just generally mean. This is why I advocate an anonymous call to the relevant authorities. They may not take the cats, depending on what they see and hear, they may just give him instructions for how to take better care of them, and check back to make sure he complies. All things considered, the classmate/housemate might want to wait until near the end of their lease and make arrangements to live elsewhere, because if they don't have a lot of visitors then I suppose it would be obvious who the "anonymous" tipper was...

 

[philomycus]

See, that's exactly what I would avoid. People who are "just trying to help" are rarely rewarded. ...

Exactly. 7 years of teaching in a public high school has reinforced this for me. I know it's not your housemate, and I'm not telling you to do this by any means....

But I'd kidnap the cats 😀

People who treat animals this way don't see anything wrong with it in the 1st place. I think its rare that they can be "rehabilitated" in their thinking. My 2 cents. I know I'm about to get ambushed here..

 

[wivet2011]

People who treat animals this way don't see anything wrong with it in the 1st place. I think its rare that they can be "rehabilitated" in their thinking. My 2 cents. I know I'm about to get ambushed here..

I'd have to agree with you. If they thought something was wrong with how they were treating the animals, they wouldn't continue treating them that way, right? And I agree you can rarely change their thinking. Most people give you lines like "I've always had cats and done X with them and I've never had a problem, so I'm not about to change anything now"

 

[Hollycozza]

I'd have to agree with you. If they thought something was wrong with how they were treating the animals, they wouldn't continue treating them that way, right? And I agree you can rarely change their thinking. Most people give you lines like "I've always had cats and done X with them and I've never had a problem, so I'm not about to change anything now"

So hard though.... you guys are going to be kidnapping a lot of pets!

We had some people come in who had let their dog get this awful skin infection over 9 months, and someone suggested we report them to the RSPCA, but is the time to report them the very moment they have sought vet care?

Different in this case, as they haven't tried to fix anything. If nobody has spoken to the guy about it, that should be the first approach, and surely it should come from the flatmate...

 

[wivet2011]

So hard though.... you guys are going to be kidnapping a lot of pets!

We had some people come in who had let their dog get this awful skin infection over 9 months, and someone suggested we report them to the RSPCA, but is the time to report them the very moment they have sought vet care?

Different in this case, as they haven't tried to fix anything. If nobody has spoken to the guy about it, that should be the first approach, and surely it should come from the flatmate...

Hey, kidnapping the pets might be easier than trying to reform the owners thinking However, since we can't do that 🙂( ) I guess we have to be like broken records and just keeping repeating things in a hopeless attempt to change the owners thinking (you can't keep a cat in a tiny, dirty cage... you can't keep a cat in a tiny, dirty cage...).

Anyways, back to the topic, roommate should def. be the one to talk to the owner and/or report the abuse. Let someone else do the kiddnapping if it comes down to that