When to Take Step 2 CK?

[tco]

I was set on taking Ck in November (255 Step 1) until my classmates brought up that a lot of programs won't interview without a Step 2 score submitted. This is what our student services office is preaching to us, but everything that I've read says that if you did well on Step 1, take Step 2 later. Anyone with any info on this? I want to do interventional radiology, for the record. Sorry if this is hard to follow, as I'm posting from my phone.

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[Phloston]

Be confident and take Step-2. If you do well, you'll only open more doors.

 

[CDI]

I was set on taking Ck in November (255 Step 1) until my classmates brought up that a lot of programs won't interview without a Step 2 score submitted. This is what our student services office is preaching to us, but everything that I've read says that if you did well on Step 1, take Step 2 later. Anyone with any info on this? I want to do interventional radiology, for the record. Sorry if this is hard to follow, as I'm posting from my phone.

All depends on whether or not you're an AMG.

AMG w/ a 255 = Take your time. I have 3 friends who had only their Step 1 250+ in place and all matched, actually one was Rad Onc.

IMG w/ a 255+ = You're probably not getting into IR. To get into Rads - be sure to take CK and be ECFMG certified as early as possible.

 

[ijn]

The answer to this isn't black or white. Some specialties care more than others. I think your school may be somewhat confused. These schools are sending out invites even before the Dean's Letter is released. Your CK score is certainly required prior to a school formally submitting your name on their rank list, but definitely not before interview invites go out (although there may be a few weird exceptions at specific programs).

As you probably already know radiology is a basically numbers game. You're already way above the pack with that Step 1 score. I'd ask yourself what your priories are fourth year. If you want to get done super early and have a huge vacation period, it might be smarter to get all your rotations done ASAP and just put a minimal amount of study in before December. If you are willing to block out 4-5 weeks of solid study time before rotations start I'd go for it. CK's national average is 10 points higher than Step 1, so to make it worth your while shoot for >10 pt improvement.

Based on the 2012 national PD survey radiology is definitely one of the fields that puts a low emphasis on the CK score both prior to interviews and during ranking relative to the other competitive specialties. IM is one of the few fields that cares a lot.

 

[tco]

Thanks, guys. For the record, I'm at an allopathic American medical school.

I also do not agree that a FMG is unlikely to become an IR if they so desire. They'd probably get in somewhere with a Step 1 of 255...All they would have to do is get into a respectable mid-tier DR program and apply for fellowship.

The answer to this isn't black or white. Some specialties care more than others. I think your school may be somewhat confused. These schools are sending out invites even before the Dean's Letter is released. Your CK score is certainly required prior to a school formally submitting your name on their rank list, but definitely not before interview invites go out (although there may be a few weird exceptions at specific programs).

As you probably already know radiology is a basically numbers game. You're already way above the pack with that Step 1 score. I'd ask yourself what your priories are fourth year. If you want to get done super early and have a huge vacation period, it might be smarter to get all your rotations done ASAP and just put a minimal amount of study in before December. If you are willing to block out 4-5 weeks of solid study time before rotations start I'd go for it. CK's national average is 10 points higher than Step 1, so to make it worth your while shoot for >10 pt improvement.

Based on the 2012 national PD survey radiology is definitely one of the fields that puts a low emphasis on the CK score both prior to interviews and during ranking relative to the other competitive specialties. IM is one of the few fields that cares a lot.

As of right now, I'm trying to get letters in place and all of that jazz. I've got one great letter from a year in pathology I did between MS2 and 3. I'm planning on doing a month of general radiology at home, followed by a month away. I was then going to do a month of ID (because our faculty is awesome, and I feel that it would be a great way to prep for CS) with CS in the middle of it. Then, I was going to do our required (non-graded) medicine sub-I. That would be followed by a month off in late October to mid November for dedicated study time for CK, and interviews.

My worry was when looking at FREIDA. Quite a few programs have numbers listed for both Step 1 and 2 in the general section of, "USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 requirements for interview consideration." I just don't want to be the idiot that didn't get interviews because he didn't take Step 2 early enough.

Basically, I have other things that I would really like to tackle and finish early in MS4 during my "down time" (rads electives, letters, my research project), but if I have to take Step 2, I'm sure I could pass pretty comfortably with studying during that time instead of doing the above. However, given my Step 1, I feel that I need to score at LEAST 260.

 

[Stellar Clouds]

Quick question, OP...how did you do on your shelf exams?

 

[tco]

Quick question, OP...how did you do on your shelf exams?

Not well. I came back from my pathology fellowship to Family Med and Internal Med - both lower 60's in the percentiles (don't remember the exact scores). Surgery (80), Neuro (96), Psych (60), OB/GYN (87). Not satisfied at all with the way I've done this year, which is another reason I don't want to try to force the issue right off with Step 2.

 

[ijn]

Thanks, guys. For the record, I'm at an allopathic American medical school.

I also do not agree that a FMG is unlikely to become an IR if they so desire. They'd probably get in somewhere with a Step 1 of 255...All they would have to do is get into a respectable mid-tier DR program and apply for fellowship.



As of right now, I'm trying to get letters in place and all of that jazz. I've got one great letter from a year in pathology I did between MS2 and 3. I'm planning on doing a month of general radiology at home, followed by a month away. I was then going to do a month of ID (because our faculty is awesome, and I feel that it would be a great way to prep for CS) with CS in the middle of it. Then, I was going to do our required (non-graded) medicine sub-I. That would be followed by a month off in late October to mid November for dedicated study time for CK, and interviews.

My worry was when looking at FREIDA. Quite a few programs have numbers listed for both Step 1 and 2 in the general section of, "USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 requirements for interview consideration." I just don't want to be the idiot that didn't get interviews because he didn't take Step 2 early enough.

Basically, I have other things that I would really like to tackle and finish early in MS4 during my "down time" (rads electives, letters, my research project), but if I have to take Step 2, I'm sure I could pass pretty comfortably with studying during that time instead of doing the above. However, given my Step 1, I feel that I need to score at LEAST 260.

Which programs? I'm looking at schools like Mass Gen and not seeing the requirement. Is there a separate section for integrated IR programs on there? If you go to "subspecialty" that's just for fellowships, at which point you'd have been done with Step 2 CK for 5 years.

 

[Stellar Clouds]

I would just stick to your original plan. As someone talked about earlier, IM is really one of the only specialties that is crazy about having CK scores in early.

I wouldn't be worried about the "requirements" listed in FRIEDA. I did apply in a different specialty, but I received plenty of invites from places that "required CK" when I hadn't even taken the exam yet.

 

[tco]

Which programs? I'm looking at schools like Mass Gen and not seeing the requirement. Is there a separate section for integrated IR programs on there? If you go to "subspecialty" that's just for fellowships, at which point you'd have been done with Step 2 CK for 5 years.

Try the University of Colorado. Go to the general tab. I know for sure it has the score listed.

It's definitely not there for all of them, but I'd say 1/5 or so have it there. That made me nervous, because for a while, every program I was opening up had it there. Small sample size. -_-

I wasn't looking at the fellowship programs, but along that line, I can't even find a listing for the DIRECT and Clinical training programs. I guess they do their own thing.

I would just stick to your original plan. As someone talked about earlier, IM is really one of the only specialties that is crazy about having CK scores in early.

Thanks for the reassurance.

 

[drdude21]

I have the same question, but I've already registered for CK -- a few months after 3rd year ends.

Background: Going for a competitive specialty, doing a research year before 4th year, but just want to get CK out of the way. Feeling like I'm at the top of my knowledge base and don't want to have to re-learn everything in a year. I realize there's some risk involved if I flub it, but my track record has been good so far: Step 1 >250, all shelves >90 except for my first one, when I didn't know what I was getting myself into (low 80s) and peds, which I'm about to take.

At the moment I'm planning to study evenings/weekends for those 2 months and be done with it. Should I rethink this plan?

Thanks!

 

[tco]

From what I understand, you're probably fine to take it since you've done well on the shelf exams. It's basically a medicine test, so know that part cold...

 

[Stellar Clouds]

I have the same question, but I've already registered for CK -- a few months after 3rd year ends.

Background: Going for a competitive specialty, doing a research year before 4th year, but just want to get CK out of the way. Feeling like I'm at the top of my knowledge base and don't want to have to re-learn everything in a year. I realize there's some risk involved if I flub it, but my track record has been good so far: Step 1 >250, all shelves >90 except for my first one, when I didn't know what I was getting myself into (low 80s) and peds, which I'm about to take.

At the moment I'm planning to study evenings/weekends for those 2 months and be done with it. Should I rethink this plan?

Thanks!

No...you should be just fine

 

[Nesir]

Be confident and take Step-2. If you do well, you'll only open more doors.

I generally make it a rule not to blatantly disagree with someone. But here I am.

I think you should push it off. AT BEST, you are in no better shoes - I doubt a 270 boards after a 255 will really change the way a lot of programs view you. At worst, a 230 (although unlikely) will add a lot of doubt.

For some fields - ie. radiology. There is generally a low weight on step II (many PDs in fact have told me specifically to not take Step 2 - I'm lucky that my home program has 3 separate "home" residencies). If you are an international grad or applying to a different field (like medicine) there is a higher demand for a Step 2 score.

 

[CDI]

I generally make it a rule not to blatantly disagree with someone. But here I am.

I think you should push it off. AT BEST, you are in no better shoes - I doubt a 270 boards after a 255 will really change the way a lot of programs view you. At worst, a 230 (although unlikely) will add a lot of doubt.

For some fields - ie. radiology. There is generally a low weight on step II (many PDs in fact have told me specifically to not take Step 2 - I'm lucky that my home program has 3 separate "home" residencies). If you are an international grad or applying to a different field (like medicine) there is a higher demand for a Step 2 score.

Curious as to why that is the case.

Is it because the studying involved in rads later on is more detail-oriented and requires heavy hours of memorizing (like Step 1)? Or is it just that high scorers prefer the rads lifestyle so scores are higher as a result?

Does a high Step 1 score (as opposed to high Step 2) translate into better radiology resident performance?

 

[Nesir]

Curious as to why that is the case.

Is it because the studying involved in rads later on is more detail-oriented and requires heavy hours of memorizing (like Step 1)? Or is it just that high scorers prefer the rads lifestyle so scores are higher as a result?

Does a high Step 1 score (as opposed to high Step 2) translate into better radiology resident performance?

Unfortunately I highly doubt there is any study (worth its weight) that can prove that for anything. It is one of those "If I scored a 40 on the MCAT will I be a good doctor?" I really just believe that scoring high on Step 1 is a great indicator that you will pass your boards in radiology - whether or not that makes you a better radiologist is debatable.

 

[CDI]

Unfortunately I highly doubt there is any study (worth its weight) that can prove that for anything. It is one of those "If I scored a 40 on the MCAT will I be a good doctor?" I really just believe that scoring high on Step 1 is a great indicator that you will pass your boards in radiology - whether or not that makes you a better radiologist is debatable.

Sorry, that is what I meant to ask. Does higher Step 1 = higher chance of passing Rads boards (since that is quantitative). Guess that answers it.