When writing secondaries - Addressing the prompt with fuller detail or addressing the prompt with an anecdote?

[907914]

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So, we have many prompts in the secondaries with limited character and word maximums. To maximize efficiency, is it better to convey an answer with full detail and elaboration of your intent with the answer or to provide an anecdote? I know many questions ask for an anecdote, but what about ones that don't? This is what I mean:

Prompt: How do you see your career ten years from now?

Option 1 - I do not yet know what specialty I want to pursue, but my goals as a physician are to focus on diseases of lifestyle. I want to do this through direct intervention and population level actions as well as through research focusing on novel methods of treating these illnesses.

Option 2 - I do not yet know what specialty I want to pursue, but my goals as a physician are to focus on diseases of lifestyle. I want to do this because of losing my grandfather young to diabetes related complications and experiences with my father requiring heart surgery.

I think I answered my own question while typing this as number 2 sounds a lot better, but IDK. I just feel like Option 1 actually addresses the prompt more thoroughly whereas option 2 is just ethos out the wazzoo.

 

[907914]

Another example would be something like "Approaching conflict in a group." Do I just answer how I approached the conflict or do I provide an example of how I have approached conflict and then say I would do that?

 

[deleted983688]

I struggle with this overarching concept a lot. To address why an experience was most meaningful, or how I bring diversity to a class, or really any secondary question, I can write a powerful story and how that links to a lesson, but that usually constricts me to writing about one specific lesson or family of lessons, but if I just elaborate long form about my values, it’s a more comprehensive answer, but doesn’t read as powerfully, IMO. At the end of the day, I’m also applying so my opinion isn’t as solid as adcom ppl on this forum, but I have a feeling that there’s really no right answer. Some readers may appreciate a more personal anecdote and others may appreciate the more comprehensive answer. (Of course, assuming they’re equally well written.) So, i think you should try your best to find a happy medium.

Your #2 ties together an anecdote and the same overarching message of #1 so I don’t think u gain much using #1 as it stands. So basically I agree with u I think #2 is better.

 

[deleted939001]

So, we have many prompts in the secondaries with limited character and word maximums. To maximize efficiency, is it better to convey an answer with full detail and elaboration of your intent with the answer or to provide an anecdote? I know many questions ask for an anecdote, but what about ones that don't? This is what I mean:

Prompt: How do you see your career ten years from now?

Option 1 - I do not yet know what specialty I want to pursue, but my goals as a physician are to focus on diseases of lifestyle. I want to do this through direct intervention and population level actions as well as through research focusing on novel methods of treating these illnesses.

Option 2 - I do not yet know what specialty I want to pursue, but my goals as a physician are to focus on diseases of lifestyle. I want to do this because of losing my grandfather young to diabetes related complications and experiences with my father requiring heart surgery.

I think I answered my own question while typing this as number 2 sounds a lot better, but IDK. I just feel like Option 1 actually addresses the prompt more thoroughly whereas option 2 is just ethos out the wazzoo.

You could stop worrying about character limits if you got rid of all the robotic fluff. Just say what you mean. If they're asking where you see yourself in 10 years it's not because they're trying to sucker you into picking a specialty so that they can then reject you for having specialty interests; it's because they want to know your interests.
1. "I hope to focus on diseases of lifestyle through direct intervention, population-level actions, and research of novel treatments for these illnesses."
2. "After losing my grandfather to complications from diabetes and standing by my father through recovery from heart surgery, I am eager to focus on treating diseases of lifestyle."

 

[907914]

You could stop worrying about character limits if you got rid of all the robotic fluff. Just say what you mean. If they're asking where you see yourself in 10 years it's not because they're trying to sucker you into picking a specialty so that they can then reject you for having specialty interests; it's because they want to know your interests.
1. "I hope to focus on diseases of lifestyle through direct intervention, population-level actions, and research of novel treatments for these illnesses."
2. "After losing my grandfather to complications from diabetes and standing by my father through recovery from heart surgery, I am eager to focus on treating diseases of lifestyle."

Not typing like a robot would go against the wishes of my programmers at IMB.

Lol Gotcha, I get it.

“Motivated by the loss of my grandfather due to diabetes related complications and standing by my father through recovery after heart surgery, I am eager to focus on treating diseases of lifestyle. In 10 years, I hope to focus on diseases of lifestyle through direct intervention, public-health outreach, and research in to novel treatments and and diagnostic methods for otherwise preventable diseases.”

Cool, so anecdote adds power/authority but can/should be minimized and utilized to contextualize the rest of the answer that actually addresses the question.

 

[Moko]

Both options seem devoid of any personality. I wasn't able to even finish reading option #1 -- seemed like too much fluff and BS. I like what @e2468 suggested!

 

[1nside]

In my opinion, everything else falls compared to making it easy to read and attention holding. That is one of the biggest factors I considered in any writing when comparing my previous and new application. So while I will respect your insight into specifically how you want to make an impact, making it read like a research abstract will probably not be the best idea. So anecdotes help with that, give some evidence, and make it personal, as it should be.

 

[907914]

Both options seem devoid of any personality. I wasn't able to even finish reading option #1 -- seemed like too much fluff and BS. I like what @e2468 suggested!

What method do you recommend for conveying personality while still addressing the question and maintaining professionalism? That is a majo downfall I do tend to have is that, in a professional context, I am extraordinarily formal, a result of coming in to adulthood while in the military. Not that it is bad to be formal, but it makes my professional self 100X less personable than my true extrinsic self.

 

[907914]

Both options seem devoid of any personality. I wasn't able to even finish reading option #1 -- seemed like too much fluff and BS. I like what @e2468 suggested!

How would you recommend expanding the sentiment to fill up 1000 characters? or even 500 words? I can def fill two or three sentence "500 character limit" essays, but how do you avoid fluff when you have already answered the question in a third of the allowed space?

 

[907914]

How would you recommend expanding the sentiment to fill up 1000 characters? or even 500 words? I can def fill two or three sentence "500 character limit" essays, but how do you avoid fluff when you have already answered the question in a third of the allowed space?

I know concise = good, but it just feels like I should provide more detail when space to provide detail is present.

 

[deleted939001]

I know concise = good, but it just feels like I should provide more detail when space to provide detail is present.

Not sure anyone is saying you need to be more concise in your ideas- in fact, I think you should expand on what it is you want to do. What specific lessons did you learn from your experiences with your family that made you think this work is important? What types of activities have you done already to confirm that pursuing this work would be right for you? Right now, the examples you've given don't give any insight into who you are as a person, and your secondaries should sell your application by helping admissions get to know you. They also need to be easier to read. Just get rid of all the formal filler language you use, replace it with your personality, and expand on that.

 

[907914]

Not sure anyone is saying you need to be more concise in your ideas- in fact, I think you should expand on what it is you want to do. What specific lessons did you learn from your experiences with your family that made you think this work is important? What types of activities have you done already to confirm that pursuing this work would be right for you? Right now, the examples you've given don't give any insight into who you are as a person, and your secondaries should sell your application by helping admissions get to know you. They also need to be easier to read. Just get rid of all the formal filler language you use, replace it with your personality, and expand on that.

So, if a question asks where do you see your career in ten years (assuming there are not character constraints, like UCLA's secondary) it is completely valid to provide examples of what I have already done to support where I want to go?

 

[deleted939001]

So, if a question asks where do you see your career in ten years (assuming there are not character constraints, like UCLA's secondary) it is completely valid to provide examples of what I have already done to support where I want to go?

Yes, and I would argue you should do that in UCLA's too (I know there is room because I did it). If I respond to this question by saying I want to pursue primary care and nothing else, admissions doesn't learn anything about me. If I say I volunteered in a mobile clinic throughout college treating homeless people without reliable access to care, and that motivates me to work in primary care where I can counsel people on lifestyle with a focus for underserved communities, then admissions learns what I want to do in 10 years, that I've started thinking about this already, and that I'm awesome in general.

 

[1nside]

So, if a question asks where do you see your career in ten years (assuming there are not character constraints, like UCLA's secondary) it is completely valid to provide examples of what I have already done to support where I want to go?

Yes because that allows me to learn about who you are, your perspective on medicine, what fuels your motivations. How did losing your grandfather affect you, what of his behaviors led to that terrible circumstance and the type of care he might have depended on, what have you done to address that in the community if possible, how is that going to make you a more aware, understanding, and effective physician (where you will be in 10 yrs). If possible within the limits. You can start w anecdote and then expand on your future situation in this question since that might be the focus. Easy to read, potent.

 

[Moko]

What method do you recommend for conveying personality while still addressing the question and maintaining professionalism? That is a majo downfall I do tend to have is that, in a professional context, I am extraordinarily formal, a result of coming in to adulthood while in the military. Not that it is bad to be formal, but it makes my professional self 100X less personable than my true extrinsic self.

Well I have no problem reading any of your posts here -- try incorporating your writing style here a bit into these prompts and see what happens (tightened up a bit of course to avoid being too casual). Ultimately, the application should be professional, but that doesn't mean that it should be formal and read like a legal document. Your written and spoken answers should sound like they are coming from the same person!

Not sure anyone is saying you need to be more concise in your ideas- in fact, I think you should expand on what it is you want to do. What specific lessons did you learn from your experiences with your family that made you think this work is important? What types of activities have you done already to confirm that pursuing this work would be right for you? Right now, the examples you've given don't give any insight into who you are as a person, and your secondaries should sell your application by helping admissions get to know you. They also need to be easier to read. Just get rid of all the formal filler language you use, replace it with your personality, and expand on that.

Basically this. Don't write just for the sake of filling space. But there should be things backing up any statements you make. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[907914]

Yes, and I would argue you should do that in UCLA's too (I know there is room because I did it). If I respond to this question by saying I want to pursue primary care and nothing else, admissions doesn't learn anything about me. If I say I volunteered in a mobile clinic throughout college treating homeless people without reliable access to care, and that motivates me to work in primary care where I can counsel people on lifestyle with a focus for underserved communities, then admissions learns what I want to do in 10 years, that I've started thinking about this already, and that I'm awesome in general.

Following this format:


After seeing my grandfather die young due to diabetes related complications and staying by my father's side after recovery from heart surgery, I am motivated to pursue public-health and community outreach as a future physician. Just as I have worked to reduce infection rates and increase patient outcomes as a laboratory manager at XXXX, as a physician I seek to focus on improving quality-of-life care for patients in my community through improving both access and delivery of preventative care.

Shortened version to accommodate 500 characters (UCLA)with room to expand in to my feelings on my family's lifestyle/diseases and my more-specific goals? Right direction?

 

[907914]

@Moko I forgot to include a reply to you as well. Does the above post seem like the right direction?

 

[deleted939001]

Following this format:


After seeing my grandfather die young due to diabetes related complications and staying by my father's side after recovery from heart surgery, I am motivated to pursue public-health and community outreach as a future physician. Just as I have worked to reduce infection rates and increase patient outcomes as a laboratory manager at XXXX, as a physician I seek to focus on improving quality-of-life care for patients in my community through improving both access and delivery of preventative care.

Shortened version to accommodate 500 characters (UCLA)with room to expand in to my feelings on my family's lifestyle/diseases and my more-specific goals? Right direction?

Right direction but I would connect the ideas in the first two sentences so that it reads as a story with a series of connected events. Did your family experience lead you to the lab? I would almost get rid of your family stuff unless you can explain how exactly it shaped your goals. Right now it says nothing about you whereas the rest of the response explains what you want to do and how you've begun to explore those goals. Alternatively you might just be able to add a transition word at the beginning of the second sentence to better link these statements.

Also note you need to add the word will
"...manager at XXXX, as a physician I WILL seek to focus on improving quality-of-life care for patients in my community through improving both access and delivery of preventative care."

 

[907914]

Right direction but I would connect the ideas in the first two sentences so that it reads as a story with a series of connected events. Did your family experience lead you to the lab? I would almost get rid of your family stuff unless you can explain how exactly it shaped your goals. Right now it says nothing about you whereas the rest of the response explains what you want to do and how you've begun to explore those goals. Alternatively you might just be able to add a transition word at the beginning of the second sentence to better link these statements.

Also note you need to add the word will
"...manager at XXXX, as a physician I WILL seek to focus on improving quality-of-life care for patients in my community through improving both access and delivery of preventative care."

You know, I don’t even know why I have been fixed on that anecdote. Probably just because it is something that is nowhere else in my application. You are right, that anecdote doesn’t really apply/connect as well - is just don’t want too much repetition in my application I guess?

While working as a phlebotomist and laboratory technician in the Army, I saw a wide array of patients who went without preventative care. This has motivated me to pursue public-health and community outreach as a future physician and, just as I have worked to reduce infection rates and increase patient outcomes as a laboratory manager, as a physician I will seek to focus on improving quality-of-life care for patients in my community through improving both access and delivery of preventative care.

 

[Moko]

@Moko I forgot to include a reply to you as well. Does the above post seem like the right direction?

Reads much better!

 

[907914]

Right direction but I would connect the ideas in the first two sentences so that it reads as a story with a series of connected events. Did your family experience lead you to the lab? I would almost get rid of your family stuff unless you can explain how exactly it shaped your goals. Right now it says nothing about you whereas the rest of the response explains what you want to do and how you've begun to explore those goals. Alternatively you might just be able to add a transition word at the beginning of the second sentence to better link these statements.

Also note you need to add the word will
"...manager at XXXX, as a physician I WILL seek to focus on improving quality-of-life care for patients in my community through improving both access and delivery of preventative care."

As far as the redundancy of information/background of the application it just feels like I am playing the military card too much, you know? Like, I definitely have that going for me but I do have a life and experiences outside of it, those are just predominantly hobbies, family, and academics... Should I not feel ashamed/will it not be negative to keep coming back to that?

 

[Moko]

You never want to be too redundant in an application.. gives off the impression that you have nothing else to say.

 

[deleted939001]

While working as a phlebotomist and laboratory technician in the Army, I saw a wide array of patients who went without preventative care. This has motivated me to pursue public-health and community outreach as a future physician and, just as I have worked to reduce infection rates and increase patient outcomes as a laboratory manager, as a physician I will seek to focus on improving quality-of-life care for patients in my community through improving both access and delivery of preventative care.

This is your best so far. I do think you're dancing around explicitly saying you want to do primary care through the bolded statements, and this is one question where I wouldn't worry about picking a specialty. I received this question in an interview and I basically said everything I wanted except my specialty (academics - teaching, research, clinic) because I thought indicating specialty preference was a huge no-no, and the only follow up question I received was "any idea about specialty?" we then had a long discussion about why the specialty I'm interested in is so important.

Also "increase patient outcomes" doesn't make sense (improve?) and I would consider replacing "as a lab manager" with "by researching xyz"

 

[deleted939001]

You never want to be too redundant in an application.. gives off the impression that you have nothing else to say.

@MemeLord agree with Moko and wonder if this response is a condensed version of your PS?
Edit: You could take out "in the Army" here. It's not relevant.

 

[907914]

This is your best so far. I do think you're dancing around explicitly saying you want to do primary care through the bolded statements, and this is one question where I wouldn't worry about picking a specialty. I received this question in an interview and I basically said everything I wanted except my specialty (academics - teaching, research, clinic) because I thought indicating specialty preference was a huge no-no, and the only follow up question I received was "any idea about specialty?" we then had a long discussion about why the specialty I'm interested in is so important.

Also "increase patient outcomes" doesn't make sense (improve?) and I would consider replacing "as a lab manager" with "by researching xyz"

It was as a medical laboratory manager so clinical lab not research and the improve patient outcomes was by bringing additional microbiology testing in house to reduce turnaround time and sepsis rates as well as ensuring proper sterilization techniques were being followed for catheter prep and placement. Improving patient outcomes makes more sense.

You never want to be too redundant in an application.. gives off the impression that you have nothing else to say.

And it is not necessarily that it is redundancy of message just of events. Same things in primary but from a different angle. For instance my PS mentions that phlebotomy and my W/A mentions the lab manager, but neither of them approach it from a public health/my future career standpoint.

That is fine, right, talking about the something already mentioned but in a different context? My primary basically has everything in it save for specific anecdotes (outside of the PS and MM essays, but not related to almost anything in my secondaries).

explicitly saying you want to do primary care through the bolded statements

You know, if I had to outright state a specialty it would likely be EMS, Wilderness med, or PM&R as my big focus is getting people care they otherwise would not get and/or improving the quality of life for those who absolutely require care.

 

[907914]

if this response is a condensed version of your PS?

Thankfully no. My PS is almost strictly the origins for my pursuit of medicine (A lot of "Why medicine" not so much "my goals with medicine.").

 

[deleted939001]

You know, if I had to outright state a specialty it would likely be EMS, Wilderness med, or PM&R as my big focus is getting people care they otherwise would not get and/or improving the quality of life for those who absolutely require care.

This is interesting. What if you framed your essay as "having worked on infection prevention efforts, I'm interested in continuing to promote preventive measures through research/education/whatever but also working on the other side of the problem by treating patients with serious illness like infection" and elaborate how your work in the lab makes one of those 3 fields particularly appealing to you?

 

[907914]

This is interesting. What if you framed your essay as "having worked on infection prevention efforts, I'm interested in continuing to promote preventive measures through research/education/whatever but also working on the other side of the problem by treating patients with serious illness like infection" and elaborate how your work in the lab makes one of those 3 fields particularly appealing to you?

What do you think about this (as an expanded and longer essay). Is this fluff or does this gauge interest (I couldn't PM you, but meh I don't think anyone can steal these ECs)

While working as a phlebotomist at XXXXX Medical Center, I saw patients who did not seek preventative care often due to either mental health issues or shame felt due to lacking a support network. This has motivated me to pursue public-health and community outreach as a future physician so that I may improve access to care for patients who would not otherwise seek it.

In particular, I believe that the greatest impact I can have on a patient population is through improving access to preventative health measures and quality-of-life care and further pursuing research in to development of novel treatments and preventative measures for diseases of lifestyle. Just as I have worked to reduce infection rates and improve patient outcomes as a laboratory manager, and have engaged in community outreach to raise awareness for veteran mental health issues, as a physician I will seek to focus on improving quality-of-life care for patients through improving access to preventative care.




Other than using the word preventative a bunch...lol

 

[deleted939001]

who did not seek preventative care often due to either mental health issues or shame felt due to lacking a support network

the rest of the response is good but would change wording here- sounds kind of judgmental even though I don't think thats your intent. "I saw patients with largely preventable illnesses" would get your point across and reduce characters/wordiness
"social determinants of health" is a big buzzword right now and would be easy to fit into this Essay somewhere...

 

[deleted939001]

So, if a question asks where do you see your career in ten years (assuming there are not character constraints, like UCLA's secondary) it is completely valid to provide examples of what I have already done to support where I want to go?

just FYI UCLA's secondary explicitly asks you what experiences have led you to your post-graduate goals

 

[907914]

just FYI UCLA's secondary explicitly asks you what experiences have led you to your post-graduate goals

I see that now. So the anecdote route is a no brainer

 

[907914]

"social determinants of health" is a big buzzword right now and would be easy to fit into this Essay somewhere...

Look at that, huge upward trend over the last 5-6 years. Can definitely fit that in there somewhere lol