When you have a 517 MCAT and from a top 20 school, how bad will a 3.4 GPA hurt?

[PreMedMissteps]

As the title says....
if you have a 517 MCAT from a top 20 school, but only a 3.4 (cum and science) GPA, what are the chances?

Rest of app is fine. Research, volunteering, shadowing, scribing, etc.

Applied to 35 meds, all MD. A mix of instate, privates, and some OOS publics. Most of the schools are midrange or unranked. Didn’t bother with top meds because of GPA.

From kind of a lucky state (state has more than one public med and favors instate).

Will the instate publics assume that a student from a top school won’t want/attend their “less fancy named” med and therefore not issue an II or not accept?

Is there a way, through an update, to communicate that the student absolutely would want to attend?

And what are chances overall?

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[a-robit]

From what I've read, having a degree from a top 20 university doesn't really offset your GPA. Your instate schools might give you a look, but it's honestly kind of a toss up. I had similar stats to you from a top 10 university my first cycle, and I only interviewed at one school, and was ultimately not accepted off the waitlist.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

From what I've read, having a degree from a top 20 university doesn't really offset your GPA. Your instate schools might give you a look, but it's honestly kind of a toss up. I had similar stats to you from a top 10 university my first cycle, and I only interviewed at one school, and was ultimately not accepted off the waitlist.

are you from an unlucky state?

And what did you do later to improve your app for an acceptance?

 

[a-robit]

are you from an unlucky state?

And what did you do later to improve your app for an acceptance?

I'm from New York State, and I ended up retaking my MCAT (33 on the old one) because it expired, and doing an SMP.

Not sure how this cycle will shake out, but I have 1 II, and I was complete in early September so I'll take it. The entire process is super unpredictable, so the best you can do is just continue plugging away at it, and improving your application until you've got an acceptance in hand.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

What is your new MCAT score?

Did you apply to all of your instate publics?

do you have an II from your instate public?

Do you feel that your instate publics would assume that someone from a Top 10 undergrad would view their instate as a “safety” (I know that no med school is a safety).

 

[a-robit]

What is your new MCAT score?

Did you apply to all of your instate publics?

do you have an II from your instate public?

Do you feel that your instate publics would assume that someone from a Top 10 undergrad would view their instate as a “safety” (I know that no med school is a safety).

1) 519

2) Yes

3) No

4) I doubt they'd think that. I have friends who are at in-state public schools who went to top 10 UG's.

 

[CorgiLoaf]

1) 519

2) Yes

3) No

4) I doubt they'd think that. I have friends who are at in-state public schools who went to top 10 UG's.

I'm in a similar sort of situation as you (low GPA, high MCAT, live in NY). Did you ask any of the NY schools why you were rejected last cycle? I really do want to attend a state school here because of the tuition.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

4) I doubt they'd think that. I have friends who are at in-state public schools who went to top 10 UG's.

Well, that is comforting.

If you were going to send an update, is there any sort of phrasing that could diplomatically convey that you’d want to attend your instate med. Would mentioning the instate rate be inappropriate? What would be appropriate?

 

[a-robit]

I'm in a similar sort of situation as you (low GPA, high MCAT, live in NY). Did you ask any of the NY schools why you were rejected last cycle? I really do want to attend a state school here because of the tuition.

I did not. I just finished an SMP, so I figured I'd reevaluate depending on how this cycle goes. The grades and new MCAT will hopefully be a boon .

Well, that is comforting.

If you were going to send an update, is there any sort of phrasing that could diplomatically convey that you’d want to attend your instate med. Would mentioning the instate rate be inappropriate? What would be appropriate?

I don't think it's worth mentioning anything until after you have a waitlist or something in hand. Only other place I would say something would be a "why this school" essay for a secondary. If you're applying, it's pretty safe to assume that you want to go. Like you said yourself, there are no safeties for med school.

 

[candbgirl]

If you don’t get an interview from your IS school it isn’t because you are from a T20 school and the med school thinks you won’t go to a “no name” school. It’s because of the totality of your application. To start with your GPAs are well below average for MD schools. The average for matriculants is currently around 3.7 and it increases every year. So that’s something to consider. Did you apply to any DO schools? You applied, you’re a resident, they know you want to go there. It’s a waiting game.

 

[precisiongraphic]

If you don’t get an interview from your IS school it isn’t because you are from a T20 school and the med school thinks you won’t go to a “no name” school. It’s because of the totality of your application. To start with your GPAs are well below average for MD schools. The average for matriculants is currently around 3.7 and it increases every year. So that’s something to consider. Did you apply to any DO schools? You applied, you’re a resident, they know you want to go there. It’s a waiting game.

I think @PreMedMissteps is a non-student and this is perhaps a hypothetical.

High MCAT (96th percentile or higher, 518+) and 3.5 or less GPA students have a harder time than you might expect. Adcoms here such as gyngyn and LizzyM have stated that the hurdle that they have to overcome is "Lazy but smart" and @Goro has said it raises questions about mental issues, medical issues and unfocused student issues in adcom's minds.

This disparity has to be overcome by good ECs, good work history, leadership, potentially by extreme extenuating circumstances (e.g. not freshman stress but leukemia or major car accidents) plus a well-crafted PS and secondaries evidencing maturity, cohesiveness and strength of purpose. I've seen success from students who do this. Selection of schools should not be mainly low tier but balanced like other applicants. Look for schools where the gpa is close to or above the 10th percentile of the school. If your MCAT is very high (99th percentile), you will probably be yield-protected with low-mcat average schools, unless it's your state school - always apply to your state school(s).

Prior successful applicants who have shown this are @DBC03 @mehc012 and @The Knife & Gun Club @omrfc768 @Whyamionhere so searching Low gpa/high mcat threads might be helpful. There are some threads that talk about it here and here.

 

[Goro]

As the title says....
if you have a 517 MCAT from a top 20 school, but only a 3.4 (cum and science) GPA, what are the chances?

Rest of app is fine. Research, volunteering, shadowing, scribing, etc.

Applied to 35 meds, all MD. A mix of instate, privates, and some OOS publics. Most of the schools are midrange or unranked. Didn’t bother with top meds because of GPA.

From kind of a lucky state (state has more than one public med and favors instate).

Will the instate publics assume that a student from a top school won’t want/attend their “less fancy named” med and therefore not issue an II or not accept?

Is there a way, through an update, to communicate that the student absolutely would want to attend?

And what are chances overall?

Hard to tell. Is there a steep rising GPA trend? If so, that will make you viable at those schools that reward reinvention.

BUT, if it's a flat 3.4 across the board, chances will be best at schools where that GPA is > the 10th %ile. Do schools will need to be on the list.

Chances always best at one's state schools.

Will the instate publics assume that a student from a top school won’t want/attend their “less fancy named” med and therefore not issue an II or not accept?

Why would they think this? Because of the MCAT only? That's typical pre-med thinking...obsessing on a single metric.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

As the title says....
if you have a 517 MCAT from a top 20 school, but only a 3.4 (cum and science) GPA, what are the chances?

Rest of app is fine. Research, volunteering, shadowing, scribing, etc.

Applied to 35 meds, all MD. A mix of instate, privates, and some OOS publics. Most of the schools are midrange or unranked. Didn’t bother with top meds because of GPA.

From kind of a lucky state (state has more than one public med and favors instate).

Will the instate publics assume that a student from a top school won’t want/attend their “less fancy named” med and therefore not issue an II or not accept?

Is there a way, through an update, to communicate that the student absolutely would want to attend?

And what are chances overall?

Everyone else here has already given you better advice than I ever could, especially @precisiongraphic and @Goro.

What I can say is that I had the same numbers and I was able to get in a couple places. Top 20 school, 3.4 GPA, MCAT 35 (518), and in a lucky state (FL).

HOWEVER - as the wiser minds of SDN have said above - it’s by no means guaranteed. Since you already applied I’m not going to bore you with my usual ‘how to make a good low GPA app’ rant. (I’m guessing you’ve completed secondaries as well - if not you’re chances are basically 0).

With regards to top schools, no one is going to think going to a top X school means you won’t go to a “low tier” medical school. In fact if you look at the class make up of most “low tier” schools, many of their students come from high powered research universities and state flagships.

A more common trap people from T20 places fall into is half-a$$ing their state school app thinking they’re certain to get an interview. If you didn’t do that you’re on the best footing you could be.

If you’re looking for something extra to do, wait til thanksgiving them send a heart-felt letter to admissions detailing specifically why you’d like to go to your state med school. Reference programs they have, the population they work with, or specific research currently happening there.

Without knowing which state you’re applying to it’s hard to guess chances. I know my undergrad, Emory, had internal data showing about 50% of those who applied with GPA < 3.5 & MCAT > 95th percentile got in.

Hope all this helps, and best of luck - it’s a tough process. Feel free to PM me if you want some more specific answers.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Everyone else here has already given you better advice than I ever could, especially @precisiongraphic and @Goro.

What I can say is that I had the same numbers and I was able to get in a couple places. Top 20 school, 3.4 GPA, MCAT 35 (518), and in a lucky state (FL).

HOWEVER - as the wiser minds of SDN have said above - it’s by no means guaranteed. Since you already applied I’m not going to bore you with my usual ‘how to make a good low GPA app’ rant. (I’m guessing you’ve completed secondaries as well - if not you’re chances are basically 0).

With regards to top schools, no one is going to think going to a top X school means you won’t go to a “low tier” medical school. In fact if you look at the class make up of most “low tier” schools, many of their students come from high powered research universities and state flagships.

A more common trap people from T20 places fall into is half-a$$ing their state school app thinking they’re certain to get an interview. If you didn’t do that you’re on the best footing you could be.

If you’re looking for something extra to do, wait til thanksgiving them send a heart-felt letter to admissions detailing specifically why you’d like to go to your state med school. Reference programs they have, the population they work with, or specific research currently happening there.

Without knowing which state you’re applying to it’s hard to guess chances. I know my undergrad, Emory, had internal data showing about 50% of those who applied with GPA < 3.5 & MCAT > 95th percentile got in.

Hope all this helps, and best of luck - it’s a tough process. Feel free to PM me if you want some more specific answers.

Thank you. BTW...this question wasn’t for me.
Secondaries were complete a month ago.

 

[mehc012]

After my cycle, I decided that your best luck is still where your LizzyM falls, more or less. I didn't hear back from any of the schools where my GPA was in range (low LizzyM places); no IIs or anything. Well, one, but they messed up their secondary that year and made a deal where the first X number of students to submit (which I was) were guaranteed a decision on IIs within a week, and a postbacc reinvention policy that made me a 4.0/40 at their school rather than a low 3.3, so...extenuating circumstances. I had 6 other IIs from places where my LizzyM was close to the school's. EVERYBODY, including the low LizzyM school, waitisted me until Traffic Day.

It's a rough road, applying with split stats. I do think it hurts you on both ends, but it can also definitely work out.

For the record, my 3.3 was actually a 3.1 undergrad and a 4.0 postbacc earned while working full time and part time jobs. So more of a reinvention story than anything.