When you look back on it, did you really know what you were getting yourself in

[fahimaz7]

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This will be for the medical students. When you look back on it, did you really know what you were getting yourself in to? I browse the pre-allo forum quite often, and I can't help but think back to my application. I was so naive about the process, the dedication, time commitment, etc... You?

 

[MilkmanAl]

Anyone who answers "yes" is kidding himself.

 

[WashMe]

I've enjoyed spending time in the hospital much more than I expected, mainly because it was different than I expected. I came to medical school thinking I wanted to be a radiologist, now I've flipped completely to IM (and maybe to heme/onc).

I've hated MS2 thus far because it is exactly what I expected in terms of course materials, but it isn't taught well and the tests are bogus. If I had known it would suck this much, I might have honestly picked another career. If something bad happened to me and I had a thought in my dying moment, I would probably just be disappointed in myself for putting up with suckiness of each day for nothing.

 

[Rollo]

Not exactly a well-constructed poll because it is very black and white. There is no grey area.

I imagine most medical students fall somewhere in that grey area.

 

[zenlike]

I'm not sure I can even answer this question until I get at least part way through 3rd year.

As far as first and second year is concerned, it's not all that different from undergrad, really.

 

[DrYoda]

No surprises with M1 and M2. I'm abstaining from voting though since the clinical years are ones significantly different from undergrad.

 

[veaselhaufen]

To any premeds reading this: medical school is way easier and more enjoyable than these threads will have you believe.

 

[swamprat]

Yeah I don't know why so many people complain about how much harder medical school is than anything in the world (at least ms1)... it's def a lot more work than undergrad but like previous posters have said it feels like undergrad with more work. I manage to go out every weekend for the most part and still find time to watch tv shows etc. The only real thing thats changed is during testing its like studying for finals as opposed to a test, but you get used to it, kinda blending your studying around doing other things.

 

[Perrotfish]

One of the the positive things about medical education is that no one bull****s you about it. You should know the timeline, the hours (year by year), the suck factor, and the ultimate rewards before you ever walk in the door. If anything the misery factor is overstated, since people tend not to mention things like clinic/night float months. F-, even people that have no interest in going to medical school know how this process works. Medicine is half of primetime television.

Now compare that to something like grad school, where most matriculants underestimate the average time to graduation by 50%, completely underestimate the average number of working hours, and initially have no idea that they're going to need to do several post-docs once they graduate. THEY have no idea.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Yeah I don't know why so many people complain about how much harder medical school is than anything in the world (at least ms1)... it's def a lot more work than undergrad but like previous posters have said it feels like undergrad with more work. I manage to go out every weekend for the most part and still find time to watch tv shows etc. The only real thing thats changed is during testing its like studying for finals as opposed to a test, but you get used to it, kinda blending your studying around doing other things.

Say it again after 3rd year and the steps 🙂

Most people aren't terribly shocked by first and second year - except maybe a few neurotic people who cannot embrace P/F and kill themselves 140hrs a week trying to get 100% on tests.

But then you get to Step 1 where you will study 12 hrs a day for weeks at a time which is a bit shocking.

Then you get to third year where its not horrible but your time is not your own. You are expected to work 14 hour days in the hospital sometimes and still study for your shelf at the end. You have to do specialties you may hate (OB IS DISGUSTING!)

Third year is very disheartening. You learn how callous and inappropriate medicine can be. You think you will never be that way but 2 months later you too are playing "Guess the MVAs EtOH level!" It doesn't take long to get sucked into the culture because you're there so much and you have to have a way to deal with the stress and sadness that is inherent to medicine. Not only that but its not even always very satisfying because a lot of your patients will either be crazy or flat out rude/hateful.

4th year is better - its more of what you want.

But no I didn't really properly conceptualize what i was getting myself into prior to medical school.
-I knew I would be 30 when I finished med school and residency but the ramifications of that never really hit me until I watched all my friends get married, buy houses and have kids.
-I knew it would take a lot of hours but the detriment that can put on your life, relationships and happiness was never fully understood.
-I knew that the rest of my life would be limited as well but I never really understood how much until it was time to pick a specialty.

 

[Perrotfish]

Third year is very disheartening. You learn how callous and inappropriate medicine can be. You think you will never be that way but 2 months later you too are playing "Guess the MVAs EtOH level!" It doesn't take long to get sucked into the culture because you're there so much and you have to have a way to deal with the stress and sadness that is inherent to medicine. Not only that but its not even always very satisfying because a lot of your patients will either be crazy or flat out rude/hateful.
.

Everyone always says 'you think you'll never be that way'. Was I the only one who came in that way?

-I knew I would be 30 when I finished med school and residency but the ramifications of that never really hit me until I watched all my friends get married, buy houses and have kids.

This was why you should have gone to engineering school. While the relentless ticking of biological clocks means that someone will eventually marry my friends, it won't happen until WAY after I'm done with residency.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Everyone always says 'you think you'll never be that way'. Was I the only one who came in that way?

No. Plenty came in that way. Its just only shocking for those of us who really should have just been NPs or PAs because we didn't start out that way.

This was why you should have gone to engineering school. While the relentless ticking of biological clocks means that someone will eventually marry my friends, it won't happen until WAY after I'm done with residency.

I think I should have just worked out 3 times a day, starved myself, dressed in expensive clothes, learned to cook gourmet food and married rich.

....tick, tick, tick... :'(

 

[LRAccord624]

\]

But no I didn't really properly conceptualize what i was getting myself into prior to medical school.
-I knew I would be 30 when I finished med school and residency but the ramifications of that never really hit me until I watched all my friends get married, buy houses and have kids.
-I knew it would take a lot of hours but the detriment that can put on your life, relationships and happiness was never fully understood.
-I knew that the rest of my life would be limited as well but I never really understood how much until it was time to pick a specialty.

I think this is exactly what I am beginning to truly realize. It makes the sentimental part of me really sad. On the other hand, I still can't think of anything I'd rather do. I'm happy with my school, happy with my SO (although we're ten hours apart for the year), and overall I'm happy with the choices I've made. Maybe as time goes on (steps, 3rd yr, etc.) I will become more and more resentful of the choices I made. Hope not.

I am one of the people who came into med school already somewhat cynical etc, so no surprises there.

 

[psipsina]

I definitely got that it was going to be hard and that my education would be prioritized above most other things much of the time. I definitely couldn't wrap my head around the volume of information I would be uploading until I was knee deep in it. I also didn't fully comprehend the effects it would have on some of my relationships as I assumed they were strong enough to get through it (many were, some weren't). I also didn't anticipate how much I would change in this process, not fundamental aspects of my personality, but I have definitely hardened both as a defense mechanism and as a reaction to the raw reality I've been confronted with. I always had a dark and twisty sense of humor but I have more material now to work with 😉

 

[VoiceofReason]

There are many things that I don't think I really grasped the magnitude of before coming to med school. But the one that is most striking is the disillusionment. Before entering medicine I was a student of biochemistry and had a kind of reverence for science and medicine - now I see that science and medicine is a circus. Ridiculously ****ty clinical trials, rampant lab errors, fudged data (why even bother being evidence based when the evidence is untrustworthy), etc.

About the only diagnostics and therapeutics I trust are imaging and painkillers.

 

[da8s0859q]

Everyone always says 'you think you'll never be that way'. Was I the only one who came in that way?

No, you weren't. My interest in being a doc was never mutually exclusive from my appreciation for gallows humor.

 

[mvenus929]

Everyone always says 'you think you'll never be that way'. Was I the only one who came in that way?

I might not have come into medicine that way, but after spending a week working full time in the hospital before med school, that quickly went out the window. And I wasn't even doing anything incredibly stressful. Just meeting a lot of very different people.

I really don't think it's hit me yet. Everything we're doing now I did in undergrad... perhaps not to the extent that we're doing it now, but everything is still kinda familiar. Next semester when we actually get into things like pharmacology, anatomy, etc, I think I'll have a better understanding of what everyone's complaining about with the heavy workload.

 

[Marcus Brody]

"I still don't know what in the world is going on. I just show up and do what I'm told"


I've noticed a lot of med students are like this. Just conformists doing whatever they're told or expected to do and never questioning the status quo. Most are pushovers.

 

[da8s0859q]

"I still don't know what in the world is going on. I just show up and do what I'm told"


I've noticed a lot of med students are like this. Just conformists doing whatever they're told or expected to do and never questioning the status quo. Most are pushovers.

At some point, don't you think that's kind of necessary? I don't know about you, but sometimes, it's easier -- and better for peace of mind -- to do what needs to be done with a minimum of bitching and fighting. I don't know that it's so much a matter of being a bunch of good little conformists.

The bitching and fighting comes later, like on course/professor evaluations.

 

[AlexMorph]

At some point, don't you think that's kind of necessary? I don't know about you, but sometimes, it's easier -- and better for peace of mind -- to do what needs to be done with a minimum of bitching and fighting. I don't know that it's so much a matter of being a bunch of good little conformists.

The bitching and fighting comes later, like on course/professor evaluations.

like those professor evaluations do anything...what is the point of bitching when the same ****ty profs are trotted out year in year out...

 

[Rollo]

"I still don't know what in the world is going on. I just show up and do what I'm told"


I've noticed a lot of med students are like this. Just conformists doing whatever they're told or expected to do and never questioning the status quo. Most are pushovers.

I think underlying problem with people (i'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular who has posted here) who don't know what is going on is lack of motivation to determine what it is they are supposed to be doing and WHY they are supposed to be doing what they are asked to do.

 

[namethatsmell]

Med school is definitely non-stop work but I don't think it's sooooo bad. I used to have a job where I logged nearly 100 hrs/wk (and one of my more lovely functions was to clean a toilet with a toothbrush). I had one complete day off in about 6 months.

We all definitely work hard and make sacrifices--but so do a ton of folks who work outside of medicine.

Sure, there are times when med school ain't all sunshine and rainbows...but the grass ain't necessarily greener on the other side folks.

 

[thefritz]

I've hated MS2 thus far because it is exactly what I expected in terms of course materials, but it isn't taught well and the tests are bogus.

You hit on the biggest shocker for me: the teaching.

I was expecting med school to be very guided and streamlined since the first 2 years are basically step 1 prep. This is not true at my school, which is essentially an online med school with required attendance for 4 hours every morning for small group activities that count for essentially nothing. The rest of the 90% of your grade comes from literally teaching yourself and accounts for 99% of the test questions. What this means is at least a third of our efforts in school go untested and don't really count for anything other than a study hall every morning that is mostly socializing.

The teaching is essentially non-existent, and moreover, we were told on the first day of school that this was by design. They want us to learn everything on our own. As a result, there are no dedicated teaching faculty, the speakers vary day by day, and the end result is mass confusion and the creation of a gunner atmosphere where everyone tries to assure everyone else how much studying they are doing on their own (since there is no/little instructional materials, everyone is obsessed with putting more time into their individual study plans than everyone else, and they let everyone know it every chance they get).

So, no, there was no way to know what this was going to be like because it's not like any other form of education experienced before.

 

[WashMe]

You hit on the biggest shocker for me: the teaching.

I was expecting med school to be very guided and streamlined since the first 2 years are basically step 1 prep. This is not true at my school, which is essentially an online med school with required attendance for 4 hours every morning for small group activities that count for essentially nothing. The rest of the 90% of your grade comes from literally teaching yourself and accounts for 99% of the test questions. What this means is at least a third of our efforts in school go untested and don't really count for anything other than a study hall every morning that is mostly socializing.

The teaching is essentially non-existent, and moreover, we were told on the first day of school that this was by design. They want us to learn everything on our own. As a result, there are no dedicated teaching faculty, the speakers vary day by day, and the end result is mass confusion and the creation of a gunner atmosphere where everyone tries to assure everyone else how much studying they are doing on their own (since there is no/little instructional materials, everyone is obsessed with putting more time into their individual study plans than everyone else, and they let everyone know it every chance they get).

So, no, there was no way to know what this was going to be like because it's not like any other form of education experienced before.

The only redeeming factor for my school is that mandatory sessions are infrequent and everything else is video recorded. I only go in to school 1-2 days per week for mandatory sessions, totaling about 2-6 hours per week. Other than that, I don't really leave my apartment much. I tend to do a 10-12 hour day to cover 2-3 days worth of lecture, then I play video games and just chill for a day or two and don't crack a book. I should probably be working harder at this point in MS2, but I honestly think that my current approach is the only thing that is keeping me sane. I may not honor everything, but at least I feel like a normal mid-20's guy on my days off.

 

[AlexMorph]

The only redeeming factor for my school is that mandatory sessions are infrequent and everything else is video recorded. I only go in to school 1-2 days per week for mandatory sessions, totaling about 2-6 hours per week. Other than that, I don't really leave my apartment much. I tend to do a 10-12 hour day to cover 2-3 days worth of lecture, then I play video games and just chill for a day or two and don't crack a book. I should probably be working harder at this point in MS2, but I honestly think that my current approach is the only thing that is keeping me sane. I may not honor everything, but at least I feel like a normal mid-20's guy on my days off.

That's a creative system. Glad it's working out.

 

[thefritz]

The only redeeming factor for my school is that mandatory sessions are infrequent and everything else is video recorded. I only go in to school 1-2 days per week for mandatory sessions, totaling about 2-6 hours per week. Other than that, I don't really leave my apartment much. I tend to do a 10-12 hour day to cover 2-3 days worth of lecture, then I play video games and just chill for a day or two and don't crack a book. I should probably be working harder at this point in MS2, but I honestly think that my current approach is the only thing that is keeping me sane. I may not honor everything, but at least I feel like a normal mid-20's guy on my days off.

If that were the way my school was, I really wouldn't have a big problem with it. The problem with mine is that the mandatory sessions everyday turn every day into a 10 hour day. 5 hours in/getting to and from sessions, and at least 5 hours at home learning the material. I love it how students say they have to "study" every night. The only times I get to study are before exams when they give us a review day, and if I'm lucky to have finished self-instructing for the week, on weekends. The rest of my time is spent self-instructing, leaving no time for reviewing and memorizing the material until right before the exam. It sucks. If I didn't have the mandatory sessions in the morning, it would be possible to self-instruct and review/study in a single day, but it's not. Seems like your program is alright. You sound like you cover twice as much ground as I do in about half the time.

 

[WashMe]

That's a creative system. Glad it's working out.

🙂

If that were the way my school was, I really wouldn't have a big problem with it. The problem with mine is that the mandatory sessions everyday turn every day into a 10 hour day. 5 hours in/getting to and from sessions, and at least 5 hours at home learning the material. I love it how students say they have to "study" every night. The only times I get to study are before exams when they give us a review day, and if I'm lucky to have finished self-instructing for the week, on weekends. The rest of my time is spent self-instructing, leaving no time for reviewing and memorizing the material until right before the exam. It sucks. If I didn't have the mandatory sessions in the morning, it would be possible to self-instruct and review/study in a single day, but it's not. Seems like your program is alright. You sound like you cover twice as much ground as I do in about half the time.

Well, there is a downside to it... I make sure I understand the material when I go through it, but I certainly don't remember the mundane details. The week before an exam week, I generally pull 12-16 hour days for 5-7 days straight, then during the exam week I take my exams while still putting in 12-16 hours per day for whatever the next test is down the line. It helps that I've at least seen the material beforehand, but I have to deal with 2 weeks of misery every time exams roll around. But then I know I'll get 6-8 weeks of relaxation 😎

 

[thefritz]

🙂
Well, there is a downside to it... I make sure I understand the material when I go through it, but I certainly don't remember the mundane details. The week before an exam week, I generally pull 12-16 hour days for 5-7 days straight, then during the exam week I take my exams while still putting in 12-16 hours per day for whatever the next test is down the line. It helps that I've at least seen the material beforehand, but I have to deal with 2 weeks of misery every time exams roll around. But then I know I'll get 6-8 weeks of relaxation 😎

Maybe this will make you feel a little better. We have "minor" exams every two weeks and "major" exams every 4 weeks (the majors cover the whole 4 week period, the minors only cover the 2 week period). The exams last 4 hours and are administered over the weekend. This means we 50% of our weekends have an exam.

The only advantage I can see to this is that our courses are blocked, so we only have one exam at a time, but our blocks, oddly enough, cover multiple subjects. So we had single exams covering selected bits of biochem, cell biology, and genetics. This explains why the exams are 4 hours long. The downside to this is if you fail the exam and have to re mediate, you have to re-take the entire block. In first-year, the whole first semester is one huge block, so an exam failure in first semester first year essentially means having to start totally over the next year. Result = mega stress every other week.

 

[AlexMorph]

Maybe this will make you feel a little better. We have "minor" exams every two weeks and "major" exams every 4 weeks (the majors cover the whole 4 week period, the minors only cover the 2 week period). The exams last 4 hours and are administered over the weekend. This means we 50% of our weekends have an exam.

The only advantage I can see to this is that our courses are blocked, so we only have one exam at a time, but our blocks, oddly enough, cover multiple subjects. So we had single exams covering selected bits of biochem, cell biology, and genetics. This explains why the exams are 4 hours long. The downside to this is if you fail the exam and have to re mediate, you have to re-take the entire block. In first-year, the whole first semester is one huge block, so an exam failure in first semester first year essentially means having to start totally over the next year. Result = mega stress every other week.

Holy crap, what kind of evil schools do this?

 

[WashMe]

Maybe this will make you feel a little better. We have "minor" exams every two weeks and "major" exams every 4 weeks (the majors cover the whole 4 week period, the minors only cover the 2 week period). The exams last 4 hours and are administered over the weekend. This means we 50% of our weekends have an exam.

The only advantage I can see to this is that our courses are blocked, so we only have one exam at a time, but our blocks, oddly enough, cover multiple subjects. So we had single exams covering selected bits of biochem, cell biology, and genetics. This explains why the exams are 4 hours long. The downside to this is if you fail the exam and have to re mediate, you have to re-take the entire block. In first-year, the whole first semester is one huge block, so an exam failure in first semester first year essentially means having to start totally over the next year. Result = mega stress every other week.

Sorry man, that sucks! 👎

 

[thefritz]

Holy crap, what kind of evil schools do this?

Honestly, I'm not sure I would rather have the week-o-exams that most schools have once every two months. But that is probably just because I have started to adapt to the constant examination at this point and don't want to change my study methods.

The part that scares the hell out of me is the failure policy. They don't really tell you what happens if you fail an exam. You get a private meeting, and the rumor is that if you fail more than one exam you have to remediate (even though the blocks are p/f, you basically have to pass every exam to advance).

 

[Rollo]

Honestly, I'm not sure I would rather have the week-o-exams that most schools have once every two months. But that is probably just because I have started to adapt to the constant examination at this point and don't want to change my study methods.

The part that scares the hell out of me is the failure policy. They don't really tell you what happens if you fail an exam. You get a private meeting, and the rumor is that if you fail more than one exam you have to remediate (even though the blocks are p/f, you basically have to pass every exam to advance).

Excuse my bluntness, but your school administration sounds like they're being very dishonest with the student body.

It is their job to let the students know the failure/remediation policy. Maybe you haven't searched through the student handbook?

I just find it hard to believe that there is a medical school out there that won't publicize to its own students their exam/course failure/remediation policies.

 

[astrocreep96]

I had friends who were in med school a couple years ahead of me, so what I've found is about what I expected from keeping in contact with them. For third year, the hours are roughly what I expected, but I don't think I fully appreciated their impact until now (night shift for L&D - I'm a night-owl but ****, 16 hours of nothing blows; I know what I'm not going into).

 

[thefritz]

Excuse my bluntness, but your school administration sounds like they're being very dishonest with the student body.

It is their job to let the students know the failure/remediation policy. Maybe you haven't searched through the student handbook?

I just find it hard to believe that there is a medical school out there that won't publicize to its own students their exam/course failure/remediation policies.

Don't even get me started. I was explicitly told by someone high up in the admin that we just had to get enough points to pass the classes and exam failure didn't matter if you had the points at the end of the term. The course director pretty much said the exact opposite, and the syllabus is vague to say the least. Emails about the subject have either been unanswered or come back with the vague syllabus description printed verbatim (it's expected you will pass all of the exams, if you fail one you may be given the opportunity to re-take it at the end of the term, etc.). My (hopeful) opinion is that they don't want to let anyone fail, but they don't want to publicize this fact.

The program is extremely controversial amongst students and faculty, but it's not PC to debate it, so it's continuing to be marketed as a giant leap forward in medical education. I'm happy to even have a chance to become a doctor so I don't say anything to anyone, but damn. Sorry, you hit a nerve there and got me going...

 

[AlexMorph]

Don't even get me started. I was explicitly told by someone high up in the admin that we just had to get enough points to pass the classes and exam failure didn't matter if you had the points at the end of the term. The course director pretty much said the exact opposite, and the syllabus is vague to say the least. Emails about the subject have either been unanswered or come back with the vague syllabus description printed verbatim (it's expected you will pass all of the exams, if you fail one you may be given the opportunity to re-take it at the end of the term, etc.). My (hopeful) opinion is that they don't want to let anyone fail, but they don't want to publicize this fact.

The program is extremely controversial amongst students and faculty, but it's not PC to debate it, so it's continuing to be marketed as a giant leap forward in medical education. I'm happy to even have a chance to become a doctor so I don't say anything to anyone, but damn. Sorry, you hit a nerve there and got me going...

While I respect your opinion, I don't think the student body of your school should be forced to put up with vague answers from your administration, especially when it comes to something as important as student advancement through the years.
You earned your damn spot at your school. You pay your tuition. You put in countless hours of work. If the administration can't even show the student body that much respect and be straight with them, to hell with that school.
Far too many of us just take any sort of abuse that is thrown at us, be it from basic science profs, attendings, patients, etc. While you, unfortunately, can't tell an attending to go eff himself when the situation clearly calls for it, there are certain other situations where we must take a stand as individuals. Are we not people too?

 

[Deferoxamine]

I saw this thread title and new I had to jump in.

My opinion on what medical school would be like before I began medical school, looking back, is just an absolute joke. Medical school is 0% what I expected it to be. It's really sad to think I had an entire year between college and medical school, and the best I could come up with was some B.S. picture in my head that turned out to be nothing like the truth.

Everything about it is different. Everything. Some of it good, some of it not so good, but everything in my head was completely wrong wrong wrong. I'm almost embarrassed that I really was THAT stupid prior to entering.

 

[thefritz]

Far too many of us just take any sort of abuse that is thrown at us, be it from basic science profs, attendings, patients, etc.

You hit the nail on the head. Students who are critical of the problem are met with ostracization by other students. Students have called those who have spoken up lazy and whiners, been told to "grow up", and lame platitudes like "this is the big leagues, and if you want to play, you need to man-up and take it." There seems to be a sense of pride in who can put up with the most crap and pretend like it doesn't affect them. Bragging about how easy everything is is common. Bragging about how you study 12 hours a day along with the 15 different extracurricular activities you supposedly also do is common. P/F systems don't prevent gunners, they just manifest them in different ways.

 

[avatarftw]

Yes, but a lot of those other long-hour jobs don't require a college degree, medical school, and residency. They just necessitate a high school degree and a very low level of intelligence/motivation.

Also, I assume that most med students/residents/attendings are relatively intelligent or at the very least they are extremely hard working and motivated. I know that I could have done a lot of those manual labor, long-hour jobs without jumping through too many hoops.

Med school is definitely non-stop work but I don't think it's sooooo bad. I used to have a job where I logged nearly 100 hrs/wk (and one of my more lovely functions was to clean a toilet with a toothbrush). I had one complete day off in about 6 months.

We all definitely work hard and make sacrifices--but so do a ton of folks who work outside of medicine.

Sure, there are times when med school ain't all sunshine and rainbows...but the grass ain't necessarily greener on the other side folks.

 

[ButImLETired]

You hit the nail on the head. Students who are critical of the problem are met with ostracization by other students. Students have called those who have spoken up lazy and whiners, been told to "grow up", and lame platitudes like "this is the big leagues, and if you want to play, you need to man-up and take it." There seems to be a sense of pride in who can put up with the most crap and pretend like it doesn't affect them. Bragging about how easy everything is is common. Bragging about how you study 12 hours a day along with the 15 different extracurricular activities you supposedly also do is common. P/F systems don't prevent gunners, they just manifest them in different ways.

This is very true, and I guess it's one of the things I didn't realize before I started.

Like many of you, I think I understood in theory what would be expected of me, I just didn't realize how much of myself I'd lose in the process. Especially as a second year, my chronic level of stress is insane (I'm always behind), I'm constantly overwhelmed and it's taken a toll on my relationships. Last year, I was so miserable studying crap I had zero interest in that my whole family was apparently worried about me. This year I just have no time to talk to them. On a basic level, the things I figured I'd like, I did like; and the things I figured I'd hate, I did hate. I just didn't expect how much that hate would eat at me, and how frustrated I'd get. Nowadays, if I go to lecture and the lecturer is bad, I get incredibly angry at having wasted a full hour of my day on something useless. I used to be able to go to lecture and accept what was going on. If a friend surprises me and tells me he's coming to visit, I get annoyed at having to reschedule stuff, while I used to be happy to see people. Any change in my routine, anything that takes up time, anything required that isn't immediately relevant for my next exam- it makes me crazy.

 

[AlexMorph]

This is very true, and I guess it's one of the things I didn't realize before I started.

Like many of you, I think I understood in theory what would be expected of me, I just didn't realize how much of myself I'd lose in the process. Especially as a second year, my chronic level of stress is insane (I'm always behind), I'm constantly overwhelmed and it's taken a toll on my relationships. Last year, I was so miserable studying crap I had zero interest in that my whole family was apparently worried about me. This year I just have no time to talk to them. On a basic level, the things I figured I'd like, I did like; and the things I figured I'd hate, I did hate. I just didn't expect how much that hate would eat at me, and how frustrated I'd get. Nowadays, if I go to lecture and the lecturer is bad, I get incredibly angry at having wasted a full hour of my day on something useless. I used to be able to go to lecture and accept what was going on. If a friend surprises me and tells me he's coming to visit, I get annoyed at having to reschedule stuff, while I used to be happy to see people. Any change in my routine, anything that takes up time, anything required that isn't immediately relevant for my next exam- it makes me crazy.

Hi, are you my twin?

In all seriousness, this is exactly the way I feel to. And I'm frankly ashamed that I feel this way. But what can we do? That's the prevalent culture in medicine. In an endless effort to take care of our patients, we always put ourselves last. This goes from the med. student level all the way to the attending level.

An attending at my school tells a joke frequently. When a patient asks him what it takes to be a doctor. He looks at them and says, "You just have to give up your 20s." I used to think this was funny. Now I realize...he wasn't kidding. That is what I'll have to do.

Now I'm sure this will attract the kind of people who thefritz was talking about, people who think I'm being weak, lazy, etc. We all only have one life to live and our 20s will never roll around again.

 

[AlexMorph]

You hit the nail on the head. Students who are critical of the problem are met with ostracization by other students. Students have called those who have spoken up lazy and whiners, been told to "grow up", and lame platitudes like "this is the big leagues, and if you want to play, you need to man-up and take it." There seems to be a sense of pride in who can put up with the most crap and pretend like it doesn't affect them. Bragging about how easy everything is is common. Bragging about how you study 12 hours a day along with the 15 different extracurricular activities you supposedly also do is common. P/F systems don't prevent gunners, they just manifest them in different ways.

Your peers are nuts. I hope you have found some sane individuals who vocalize that what you put up with is bs.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Like many of you, I think I understood in theory what would be expected of me, I just didn't realize how much of myself I'd lose in the process. Especially as a second year, my chronic level of stress is insane (I'm always behind), I'm constantly overwhelmed and it's taken a toll on my relationships. Last year, I was so miserable studying crap I had zero interest in that my whole family was apparently worried about me. This year I just have no time to talk to them. On a basic level, the things I figured I'd like, I did like; and the things I figured I'd hate, I did hate. I just didn't expect how much that hate would eat at me, and how frustrated I'd get. Nowadays, if I go to lecture and the lecturer is bad, I get incredibly angry at having wasted a full hour of my day on something useless. I used to be able to go to lecture and accept what was going on. If a friend surprises me and tells me he's coming to visit, I get annoyed at having to reschedule stuff, while I used to be happy to see people. Any change in my routine, anything that takes up time, anything required that isn't immediately relevant for my next exam- it makes me crazy.

This is how I feel too. My pre-med school impression of how much work there would be and how long the hours would be was largely accurate. What I didn't predict was how I would actually feel about it. I thought I was going to rise to the challenge, immerse myself in learning medicine, and almost get a sort of "natural high" from the sense of a job well done and all that. Instead, I was uninterested, miserable, and did pretty poorly in the classroom years. In a sense the clinical years are better (at least 4th year, when you feel like you're finally making progress toward being a normal person again,) but if you had problems in the classroom years that is a spectre that haunts you through the rest of your education and training.

 

[namethatsmell]

Yes, but a lot of those other long-hour jobs don't require a college degree, medical school, and residency. They just necessitate a high school degree and a very low level of intelligence/motivation.

Yup agree with all this 100%--and that's the point: working hard is not solely endemic to medicine.

Also, I assume that most med students/residents/attendings are relatively intelligent or at the very least they are extremely hard working and motivated. I know that I could have done a lot of those manual labor, long-hour jobs without jumping through too many hoops.

Partly agree...I think most med students/residents/attendings would get fed up with the BS of a manual labor job (much as they do in medicine) but would be less likely to slug it out with cracking rocks or something like that. Whereas somebody who hates school/formalized education would probably rather shovel **** before going to med school. Different pain for different folks.

And back to the original question in this thread: the one thing that I was absolutely not expecting were the random bouts of loneliness peppered throughout med school. I'm a pretty happy person and have lots of friends, but every once in a while (particularly when leading up to an exam), I feel like I'm on my own planet.

 

[Ragman]

I don't really have any close relationships, so I like to stay busy immersed in my own private life. I study, read, work out, work, etc. I always have something to do, and on the rare occasions that someone goes out of their way to see me I feel frustrated that they're imposing into my world.

I'm not in medical school yet so I can't say I know at all what I'm getting into. I think I have a basic idea, though, and it's the learning to empathize with my patients part that I believe I dread the most. I usually spend most of my time as it is feeling detached from the people around me. It's not anything voluntary on my behalf, so when I arrive to a certain point of cognitive dissonance a voice always speaks up in my head and tells me to get back to work and stay busy. When I'm not busy with something work-related and I've already worked out enough, I honestly don't know what to do. So yes, I am actually saying that I'd like more of a challenge with school in the near future. I'm not saying that it'll be easy for me, or rewarding all of the time, but that's life.

I think I'll be okay.

 

[auburnO5]

I don't really have any close relationships, so I like to stay busy immersed in my own private life. I study, read, work out, work, etc. I always have something to do, and on the rare occasions that someone goes out of their way to see me I feel frustrated that they're imposing into my world.

I'm not in medical school yet so I can't say I know at all what I'm getting into. I think I have a basic idea, though, and it's the learning to empathize with my patients part that I believe I dread the most. I usually spend most of my time as it is feeling detached from the people around me. It's not anything voluntary on my behalf, so when I arrive to a certain point of cognitive dissonance a voice always speaks up in my head and tells me to get back to work and stay busy. When I'm not busy with something work-related and I've already worked out enough, I honestly don't know what to do. So yes, I am actually saying that I'd like more of a challenge with school in the near future. I'm not saying that it'll be easy for me, or rewarding all of the time, but that's life.

I think I'll be okay.

No offense, but damn, I am glad I'm not you. I love being bored and having absolutely nothing to do.

I have nearly perfected the art of being lazy.

 

[AlexMorph]

I don't really have any close relationships, so I like to stay busy immersed in my own private life. I study, read, work out, work, etc. I always have something to do, and on the rare occasions that someone goes out of their way to see me I feel frustrated that they're imposing into my world.

I'm not in medical school yet so I can't say I know at all what I'm getting into. I think I have a basic idea, though, and it's the learning to empathize with my patients part that I believe I dread the most. I usually spend most of my time as it is feeling detached from the people around me. It's not anything voluntary on my behalf, so when I arrive to a certain point of cognitive dissonance a voice always speaks up in my head and tells me to get back to work and stay busy. When I'm not busy with something work-related and I've already worked out enough, I honestly don't know what to do. So yes, I am actually saying that I'd like more of a challenge with school in the near future. I'm not saying that it'll be easy for me, or rewarding all of the time, but that's life.

I think I'll be okay.

future pathologist

 

[da8s0859q]

... so when I arrive to a certain point of cognitive dissonance a voice always speaks up in my head and tells me to get back to work and stay busy. When I'm not busy with something work-related and I've already worked out enough, I honestly don't know what to do. So yes, I am actually saying that I'd like more of a challenge with school in the near future. I'm not saying that it'll be easy for me, or rewarding all of the time, but that's life.

I think I'll be okay.

Not to go all armchair psychologist on you, but I wonder if that same line of thought could be used for getting you out of that little island of a personal comfort zone. I say this because I can relate with where you're coming from -- I just don't think it's necessarily the best way about things. Can't keep everyone at arm's length all your life.

 

[Ragman]

I love being bored and having absolutely nothing to do.

Not having anything to do depresses me. I wish it didn't, but I'm not happy unless I feel like I'm progressing in something. No matter what it is.

I went through a long period of being unemployed and out of school, and without anything to do I went through periods where I spent two or three days consecutively drunk, by myself. I slept fourteen hours a day when I wasn't doing the former. It was awful, but I pulled myself out of it through willpower.

When I first started striving for something, I realized that I just like the feeling of success. Studying hard and getting an A on an exam makes me happy. Training and working out until I make someone tap out in Brazilian Jiujitsu who just a month ago could wipe the floor with me, that makes me happy. But being bored and having nothing to do doesn't.

 

[sylvanthus]

How are you going to feel in medical school when you study hard for weeks and fail an exam, or do far worse than many of your peers? Are you going to relapse into some sort of funk? If success is your motivation, you may be severely lacking in motivation in medical school. A person can no longer just work hard and get an A, it is no longer that easy.

 

[Ragman]

Maybe. I'm not going to pretend I have it all figured out. If I go to medical school, it will be a long trial of learning to adapt and cope as different hurdles are thrown my way. Plenty of mistakes will be made, but I don't think anyone really ever succeeds without failing at least a couple of times and learning.

My objective is to not take any steps backwards, no matter what I do. I may be stuck on a plateau sometime in the future when I fail an exam, or I start getting the blues--but that has happened to me more than once after I quit drinking and I still haven't relapsed and just given up altogether.

There are some areas of science I'm very passionate about, though, so I wouldn't even be considering medical school if that wasn't the case.