when your preceptor doesn't a want a student.....

[silverstrand]

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I am in need of advice for dealing with the fellow I am assigned to on my surgery rotation. This person will not let me follow her on rounds and gets pissed off if I even ask, she believes the only way to learn is to follow patients myself and not watch her do anything, she only pimps when attending are around and she is trying to impress them, gets pissed off when attendings tell her to let me suture and then won't assist me or even so much as supervise to make sure I'm doing it right (my first time suturing after all). She has me write progress notes on scratch paper but then when we go over them at the end of the day she gives zero feedback, unless I ask her specific questions about how to write things, better word, etc. She is pretty nasty in general even when I ask what time to show up, etc (because we were never given a schedule). She clearly does not want a student and my school wants me to ask her if I can be assigned to someone else this Monday (which seems unlikely) and will probably increase her nastiness to me. I'm reading at home and between surgeries, in clinic, etc. But I feel like I just wasted a week learning almost nothing.

Does anyone who has been in this situation before have any advice about how you handled it???

 

[cbass1350]

You just described half of my rotations. All I can say is that she won't be the last. Make the best of what you have and just get through it.

 

[Top Gun]

This person will not let me follow her on rounds and gets pissed off if I even ask, she believes the only way to learn is to follow patients myself and not watch her do anything,

That's absurd! How are you supposed to learn if you can't observe your upper levels? As a med student, your main job is to learn from your attendings and residents. This person clearly has no interest in teaching you anything. If your school wants you to find out from her if you can switch preceptors, go ahead and ask. Chances are, if she really doesn't want you there, she'll let you switch without a second thought. You need to find someone who is willing to let you learn from them. If she gets nasty when you ask her, it's her problem, not yours!

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Talk to the clerkship director tommorrow. You are paying $20-40k a year for this crap.

 

[Top Gun]

Talk to the clerkship director tommorrow. You are paying $20-40k a year for this crap.

I agree. The clerkship director is really the best one to talk to when arranging for a new preceptor. If the preceptor you have now says no, the clerkship director can overrule her.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Talk to the clerkship director tommorrow. You are paying $20-40k a year for this crap.

Agree again. Remember, part of your preceptors's evaluation will resolve on how well she taught you. Although I don't believe in revenge, she needs to be disciplined for her poor teaching.

 

[MadameLULU]

I had bad experience on one of my rotations b/c the attending was absolutely unreasonable and rude. I let the clerkship director know that I was having a poor learning experience (this is KEY, you need to frame the situation in terms of the quality of learning and not necessarily about how the attending treats you). He responded that it was "inappropriate to treat junior colleagues inappropriately and in an inconsiderate manner" and said he was going to let the attending know how students were perceiving him (after I finished the rotation, evals were submitted etc). He didn't change my attending, but gave my classmate and I the opportunity to work with another attending for a couple of days. So, yeah, talking to the clerkship director is important in terms of getting the situation changed.

 

[neoncandle]

I absolutely agree with the above. Almost no one I know has had experiences like that.

 

[Tired]

You need to immediately go to your clerkship director and get switched to a different team. It's bad enough when attendings act like idiots, but docs in training behaving this way is completely unacceptable.

Oh, and generally you don't refer to the fellows as "preceptors". They're just glorified residents.

 

[sga814]

Maybe she just needs to get laid.
👍

 

[treasurefull2]

Contact the dept chair or the doctor overseeing the rest of the department and let them know that you are a strong, motivated and intelligent student who wants to LEARN (this is key) and that you don't feel like you are with this fellow.

IF, of course, you think this wont get you into a deeper situation, but I think it shouldn't if the chair of the department is intelligent and can see your motivation...

 

[MadameLULU]

Contact the dept chair or the doctor overseeing the rest of the department and let them know that you are a strong, motivated and intelligent student who wants to LEARN (this is key) and that you don't feel like you are with this fellow.

IF, of course, you think this wont get you into a deeper situation, but I think it shouldn't if the chair of the department is intelligent and can see your motivation...

i disagree. i don't think the chair is the right person to contact, as this person mananges many aspects of the department and probably doesn't have that much time to address the education of one particular student. Medicine is all about heirarchy and if you have a problem, it is best to contact the person who is in charge of that problem instead of going all the way to the top. Honestly, I think it would be frowned.

 

[pillowhead]

i disagree. i don't think the chair is the right person to contact, as this person mananges many aspects of the department and probably doesn't have that much time to address the education of one particular student. Medicine is all about heirarchy and if you have a problem, it is best to contact the person who is in charge of that problem instead of going all the way to the top. Honestly, I think it would be frowned.

Going to the chair is over the top and probably won't get accomplished what you want to get accomplished. I would go to your clerkship director--this is precisely the kind of thing they're there for.

If this resident disliked teaching so intensely, she should only have applied to community based residency programs. She chose to apply to academic programs and therefore is obligated to function like an academic resident and that includes teaching.

 

[Rugby MD]

Even if you decide to suck it up for the rest of your rotation, make sure to tell the clerkship director at the end but before you get your grade. Even if you decide to suffer through it (which I don't know if I would do or not), don't make the next medical student suffer through it too!!

 

[Ypo.]

Talk to the clerkship director tommorrow. You are paying $20-40k a year for this crap.

Ditto-this is the way to go. I just had a meeting with the clerkship director yesterday and I let him know some of the problems we've been having.

I had a similar thing happen-they didn't tell me when to show up for the night shift and it wasn't written on our schedule except for the first evening (when the schedule said report at 7). So I kept coming at 7 for the next several nights and no one said anything. The third night I walk in at the usual time and I get grilled by the attending for not showing up at 5:30 (at the correct time) while the resident who was responsible for telling me what time to show up sat there. It wasn't really a big deal, and I realize now that I should have asked since it was my own ass on the line, but still...as someone pointed out we are paying money for this $hit and they should have had it in the schedule.

Anyways, really sorry to hear that your resident is rude. I agree that you should be seeing patients on your own (although it is intimidating esp on the first rotation). I've discovered that I get to do a lot more (and learn a lot more) when I don't have to compete with an intern for the patients. This might sound conceited, but it seems like some of the interns are only slightly more knowledgeable than I am, and yet when the attending or senior resident is present, the intern always gets delegated most of the work and the funstuff (understandably since they are the doctor, but it sucks for the student). But you should DEFINITELY be getting some supervision on suturing and furthermore you shouldn't get any flack for asking for some!

I've been really lucky because all the residents, interns and attendings are very nice and approachable on my current rotation. Still, half of the time I feel that I'm not learning productively and also like I have no clue what's going on or what I'm supposed to be doing.

 

[Dr McSteamy]

tell her she needs to stop being so uptight....

and offer sex to her. Give her some great sex, and she'll be more accomodating.