Where did I go wrong?

[alasra]

I could only afford to apply to 8 schools (my state school, NYU, BU, UCONN, PITT, etc.) and I submitted my application on September 30th.

Here are my stats for the 1st application:

• GPA: Science GPA- 3.32; Total GPA- 3.43
• DAT: 19 AA, 23 PAT --> 17 QR, 17 Gen Chem, 18 Ochem, 21 Reading, 21 Biology
• Shadowing: ~640 hours (general, oral surgeon, and ortho)
• Leadership: 1) officer for 2 years in my pre-dental club & 2) secretary in a leadership focused club
• Community service: ~275 (habitat for humanity, a type of soup kitchen, and odd volunteer events hosted by the clubs)
• Research: ~200 hours in an Immunology lab, no publication.
• Personal Statement: Had a horrible dentist f**k up my teeth when I was 15 yo which resulted in me getting all my teeth crowned and root canal treated at 19 yo (I'm 24 now). In all honesty, dentistry did save my life. Having a new and beautiful smile is what pushed me to pursue this field.
• *EDIT: rec. letters: 2 of them were great, 2 of them were bland, because I didn't have enough time to form good relationships.

In the meantime:

• I've been completing a Master's Degree in Biology (I'll be done in July)
• I teach two introductory Biology labs (have been for two semesters now- forgot to put that in my 1st application),
• Retaking DAT in May
• Amping up my community service hours (aiming for about 100 more hours by the time I apply in June)
• *EDIT: my rec letters will be much stronger this time around.

I'm freaking out about this upcoming cycle. I straight up got rejected from every school in December. What went wrong (besides applying late and a low DAT)? What more can I do to improve? Thank you in advance!

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[DC206R]

Kill that upcoming DAT (21+ preferably) and apply broadly/early. Do these things and you'll get interviews. Your EC's seem fine.

 

[alasra]

Aim for a higher DAT score (21+ preferably) and apply broadly/early. Do these things and you'll get interviews. Good luck!

Should I still apply to schools I don't want to go to? It's a weird question to ask, but I can only apply to schools in the Northeastern region for personal reasons. Thanks for your reply!

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

I could only afford to apply to 8 schools (my state school, NYU, BU, UCONN, PITT, etc.) and I submitted my application on September 30th.

Here are my stats for the 1st application:

• GPA: Science GPA- 3.32; Total GPA- 3.43
• DAT: 19 AA, 23 PAT --> 17 QR, 17 Gen Chem, 18 Ochem, 21 Reading, 21 Biology
• Shadowing: ~640 hours (general, oral surgeon, and ortho)
• Leadership: 1) officer for 2 years in my pre-dental club & 2) secretary in a leadership focused club
• Community service: ~275 (habitat for humanity, a type of soup kitchen, and odd volunteer events hosted by the clubs)
• Research: ~200 hours in an Immunology lab, no publication.
• Personal Statement: Had a horrible dentist f**k up my teeth when I was 15 yo which resulted in me getting all my teeth crowned and root canal treated at 19 yo (I'm 24 now). In all honesty, dentistry did save my life. Having a new and beautiful smile is what pushed me to pursue this field.
• *EDIT: rec. letters: 2 of them were great, 2 of them were bland, because I didn't have enough time to form good relationships.

In the meantime:

• I've been completing a Master's Degree in Biology (I'll be done in July)
• I teach two introductory Biology labs (have been for two semesters now- forgot to put that in my 1st application),
• Retaking DAT in May
• Amping up my community service hours (aiming for about 100 more hours by the time I apply in June)
• *EDIT: my rec letters will be much stronger this time around.

I'm freaking out about this upcoming cycle. I straight up got rejected from every school in December. What went wrong (besides applying late and a low DAT)? What more can I do to improve? Thank you in advance!

Apply June. I personally wouldn't advise you to retake the DAT. What if you do worse? Your breakdown is NOT bad. I've seen people on here go from a 20AA first time and retake thinking they'll get a 22 or better second time and end up getting a 16 or 18. Just keep that in mind. You can't always luck out on exam day that all the questions you get are exactly what you're best at.

Apply to schools you WANT to go to and WOULD go if accepted. Don't waste your time, their time, and your own money.

 

[DC206R]

I would only apply to schools that you would for sure go to if given an acceptance offer. So choose carefully in terms of price, curriculum, location. I think really limiting yourself to just the NE region is detrimental to your chances. You're committed to pursuing dentistry so don't restrict yourself now. Apply everywhere you can.

 

[eldmd_32]

Since Uconn has so few seats compared to other schools you need to submit your app no later than the end of July if you want a good chance of being considered for an interview. You'd also need a stronger DAT. Apply more broadly and specifically to schools you feel you'd receive an interview from based on your credentials and not so much as schools you're hoping to get an interview from

 

[OrphanageCaretaker]

Honestly, I'd say you applied late and it was the DAT, everything else extracurricular wise seems to be great. I'm in the same position as you with a lower GPA (3.3) so I'm making it a mission to do extremely well to nail the DAT (hoping for 22+) and apply early (first week of June). Curious, how many units is your masters and what is your GPA?

 

[Faux]

You submitted your application on sept 30th. But there were 2-3 weeks of processing time. Everything said and done, mid-end of Oct. Your grades are fine, a tad on the low side if that, but it was just too late in the cycle for the cards you played.

 

[Likkriue]

So your PS involved one dentist screwing up your teeth and another fixing it all? Not sure that is an attractive topic to focus your PS around.

There's this little thing about dentists not bashing another dentist ever.

 

[Alcancia]

My stats are pretty close to that; same GPA and 21AA on DAT. I'm lighter on the shadowing and research. I worked for a few years as an engineer, so I had good work experience/leadership and more service hours. Overall, not too different. Here's some thoughts:

1 - I felt like i applied late (Aug 15) and that it really hurt me. I didn't even receive an interview from an In-State private school after having a really good conversation with an AdComm member at a recruiting event and him telling me "When you come in for your interview, be sure to talk about XYZ." Most schools will look at thousands of applications for under 150 spots. By the time they get to application 2351, they've already filled their "invite-for-interview" pile and it takes a lot for them to bump another application to replace it with yours (assuming a fixed number of interviews are offered, which I'm sure many schools do.) By September 30th (and especially by late October when the schools actually got your app from AADSAS), interview invite letters were pretty much already being sent. Apply early. I would recommend that first week that AADSAS opens, and within the first two weeks at the latest.

2 - Some schools claim that they set minimum thresholds for academic performance and that once you clear those thresholds they only consider other aspects of your application. Some schools told me "No section of the DAT below 17" was their threshold. Your QR and Chem scores are a little too close for comfort. Some schools only look at certain sections or AA. Some schools make a composite score that factors in your DAT mathematically. Try to find out about the schools you are interested in and how DAT scores are weighed in their decision process. If you think you can make the time (meaning 10 weeks of 2-4hours per day, minimum) to study for another DAT attempt, it could really help. Only retake it if you can put in the time to prep though.

3 - Lastly, just percentage wise, your personal statement is the biggest part of your application. You may have done this, but if not, shop your personal statement around for some advice and criticisms.
-Have your Pre-Dent and/or Pre-Med advisor look through it.
-Take it to your university's writing center.
-Ask this forum to read through it.
-Use an online writing service.
-Have the dentists you've shadowed read through it.
-Have family/friends give it a look over.
Do any/all of this. You never know who will be sitting on the AdComm reading your statement, so you need it to appeal to as many people as you can while expressing the passion you have for dentistry and as an individual. I haven't read your statement, so take this for what it's worth, but I can already say that I would avoid any negative portrayals (i.e. "a horrible dentist f**k up my teeth") of anybody in the industry. For sure talk about the confidence you gained from proper dental care and how it's impacted your life and your decision to become a dentist. I'd just be sure to focus on the positives and present yourself as an upbeat, team-player, happy-in-the-face-of-adversity kind of person. People will automatically go into a defensive mindset if they read negative things about someone in their same position/profession (This kid is complaining about a dentist + I'm a dentist = He's complaining about me). It's the same reason I can't complain about a speeding ticket to Officer Brother-in-law.

Sorry for the super long response, but I feel for you and hope that my humble ramblings encourage success on next year's cycle. Good luck!

 

[alasra]

Honestly, I'd say you applied late and it was the DAT, everything else extracurricular wise seems to be great. I'm in the same position as you with a lower GPA (3.3) so I'm making it a mission to do extremely well to nail the DAT (hoping for 22+) and apply early (first week of June). Curious, how many units is your masters and what is your GPA?

You've got this! When are you taking your DAT?

To complete the Master's degree at my school requires 40 credit hours. I will have 36 hours done in May; the only thing left will be my thesis paper. My GPA should have gone up- I got all A's last semester and 1 B. This semester, I am hoping to get all A's, so we'll see how it turns out!

 

[alasra]

So your PS involved one dentist screwing up your teeth and another fixing it all? Not sure that is an attractive topic to focus your PS around.

There's this little thing about dentists not bashing another dentist ever.

Yeah, I agree that my PS was maybe too negative. I tried really hard to spin it to sound like "I know what it's like to be on the other side of both good and bad dentistry. My experience has only motivated me to be the best dentist I can be so that no one has to go through what I did". That's the gist- I (hopefully) made it sound more eloquently in my PS. I've been thinking about sticking with only the good experience (aka the dentist who changed my life and the dentist I shadow now). Do you think that would be better?

 

[deleted632307]

Are you Asian? If so, I would aim for 23AA+ on the DAT to compensate for your lower GPA.

Schools won't admit this (for obvious reasons), but they will compare your stats to applicants of the same ethnicity.

 

[alasra]

My stats are pretty close to that; same GPA and 21AA on DAT. I'm lighter on the shadowing and research. I worked for a few years as an engineer, so I had good work experience/leadership and more service hours. Overall, not too different. Here's some thoughts:

1 - I felt like i applied late (Aug 15) and that it really hurt me. I didn't even receive an interview from an In-State private school after having a really good conversation with an AdComm member at a recruiting event and him telling me "When you come in for your interview, be sure to talk about XYZ." Most schools will look at thousands of applications for under 150 spots. By the time they get to application 2351, they've already filled their "invite-for-interview" pile and it takes a lot for them to bump another application to replace it with yours (assuming a fixed number of interviews are offered, which I'm sure many schools do.) By September 30th (and especially by late October when the schools actually got your app from AADSAS), interview invite letters were pretty much already being sent. Apply early. I would recommend that first week that AADSAS opens, and within the first two weeks at the latest.

2 - Some schools claim that they set minimum thresholds for academic performance and that once you clear those thresholds they only consider other aspects of your application. Some schools told me "No section of the DAT below 17" was their threshold. Your QR and Chem scores are a little too close for comfort. Some schools only look at certain sections or AA. Some schools make a composite score that factors in your DAT mathematically. Try to find out about the schools you are interested in and how DAT scores are weighed in their decision process. If you think you can make the time (meaning 10 weeks of 2-4hours per day, minimum) to study for another DAT attempt, it could really help. Only retake it if you can put in the time to prep though.

3 - Lastly, just percentage wise, your personal statement is the biggest part of your application. You may have done this, but if not, shop your personal statement around for some advice and criticisms.
-Have your Pre-Dent and/or Pre-Med advisor look through it.
-Take it to your university's writing center.
-Ask this forum to read through it.
-Use an online writing service.
-Have the dentists you've shadowed read through it.
-Have family/friends give it a look over.
Do any/all of this. You never know who will be sitting on the AdComm reading your statement, so you need it to appeal to as many people as you can while expressing the passion you have for dentistry and as an individual. I haven't read your statement, so take this for what it's worth, but I can already say that I would avoid any negative portrayals (i.e. "a horrible dentist f**k up my teeth") of anybody in the industry. For sure talk about the confidence you gained from proper dental care and how it's impacted your life and your decision to become a dentist. I'd just be sure to focus on the positives and present yourself as an upbeat, team-player, happy-in-the-face-of-adversity kind of person. People will automatically go into a defensive mindset if they read negative things about someone in their same position/profession (This kid is complaining about a dentist + I'm a dentist = He's complaining about me). It's the same reason I can't complain about a speeding ticket to Officer Brother-in-law.

Sorry for the super long response, but I feel for you and hope that my humble ramblings encourage success on next year's cycle. Good luck!

Hey! Thank you so much for your detailed response. You are spot on about the PS. I actually went to my writing center several times, and each time we focused on making it less negative. My only reasoning for including the bad dentist was to show a contrast of my experience with dentistry and how much it has affected my life. I'm definitely going to take your advice and ask the forum to take a look at my PS after going to the writing center a couple more times.

I'm planning on submitting my application on June 14th- get as much volunteering and shadowing in. In those two weeks, I could get at least 25 volunteer and 25 shadowing hours in. Do you think that it's worth it to wait 2 weeks, or should I just submit that first week? I'll have everything ready to go by the time applications open.

Again, thanks for your advice! Good luck!!

 

[alasra]

Are you Asian? If so, I would aim for 23AA+ on the DAT to compensate for your lower GPA.

Schools won't admit this (for obvious reasons), but they will compare your stats to applicants of the same ethnicity.

I am a Pakistani female. I honestly, truly don't think I could ever get 22+ because I am a HORRIBLE test taker. I almost gave up pursuing dentistry because of the damn DAT. That's why I am trying so hard to bring everything else up. I'm hoping that my above average extracurricular activities/voluteering might distract them from the below average DAT score, haha.

 

[alasra]

You submitted your application on sept 30th. But there were 2-3 weeks of processing time. Everything said and done, mid-end of Oct. Your grades are fine, a tad on the low side if that, but it was just too late in the cycle for the cards you played.

Do you think my DAT needs to be retaken? If I instead spent the time planned for DAT studying to amp up my volunteer/shadowing hours and applied on June 1st, then would that be more beneficial?

 

[deleted632307]

I am a Pakistani female. I honestly, truly don't think I could ever get 22+ because I am a HORRIBLE test taker. I almost gave up pursuing dentistry because of the damn DAT. That's why I am trying so hard to bring everything else up. I'm hoping that my above average extracurricular activities/voluteering might distract them from the below average DAT score, haha.

That's rough... in that case, just try to score as high as you can on your retake. I still think you can get a 21AA if you use the resources listed in DAT breakdowns here on SDN (and study intensively for at least 2-3 months).

What is your grad GPA? A high GPA in grad school can mitigate your lower undergrad GPA (which isn't even terrible in the first place, just below average for Asian/Indian/Pakistani applicants).

With a high grad GPA, (hopefully) better DAT score (even 20AA would be great), new personal statement, stronger letters of recommendation, and an early submission date (as close to June 1 as possible), I think you'll be good to go! Obviously, the more schools you apply to, the better chance you have of getting in.

 

[Likkriue]

Yeah, I agree that my PS was maybe too negative. I tried really hard to spin it to sound like "I know what it's like to be on the other side of both good and bad dentistry. My experience has only motivated me to be the best dentist I can be so that no one has to go through what I did". That's the gist- I (hopefully) made it sound more eloquently in my PS. I've been thinking about sticking with only the good experience (aka the dentist who changed my life and the dentist I shadow now). Do you think that would be better?

Yes stick with the good experience and leave the bad experience out. Remember you are looking to convince them why you want to be a dentist. Having a dentist almost kill you is not that reason.

 

[DentalNucleicAcid]

I am a Pakistani female. I honestly, truly don't think I could ever get 22+ because I am a HORRIBLE test taker. I almost gave up pursuing dentistry because of the damn DAT. That's why I am trying so hard to bring everything else up. I'm hoping that my above average extracurricular activities/voluteering might distract them from the below average DAT score, haha.

Just want to add that you don't have to be a good test taker to do well on the DAT. If you think about why you might be a bad test taker, it ultimately boils down to nervousness--> nervous because you're afraid--> afraid because you think you won't perform well-->you think you won't perform well because you're not confident in your knowledge--> not confident because you didn't prepare well enough. So the solution to overcoming your bad test taking skills is cliche but it's making sure that you know the material inside out. The way to do that is through using the right resources and dedicating enough time and there's lots of threads about those things as you know. If you dedicate the time and use the resources, you will achieve a 22+.

 

[DOC YANKEM]

Below average gpa and DAT scores for Northeastern region schools, but you should have gotten some interviews.

Your new gpa for masters should compensate for your undergrad gpa.

I would retake the DAT to get 21+AA because I personally feel dental schools are getting very competitive every year that passes. I wouldn't be surprised if the average DAT score in NY dental schools was a 21-22.

Definitely fix your personal statement. Best of Luck

Edit: I almost forgot, you must apply first batch (it has to be submitted before August)!

 

[Likkriue]

Below average gpa and DAT scores for Northeastern region schools, but you should have gotten some interviews.

Your new gpa for masters should compensate for your undergrad gpa.

I would retake the DAT to get 21+AA because I personally feel dental schools are getting very competitive every year that passes. I wouldn't be surprised if the average DAT score in NY dental schools was a 21-22.

Definitely fix your personal statement. Best of Luck

Edit: I almost forgot, you must apply first batch (it has to be submitted before August)!

I highly doubt it's 22. I know many people irl that have 20s and below.

 

[deleted632307]

Below average gpa and DAT scores for Northeastern region schools, but you should have gotten some interviews.

Your new gpa for masters should compensate for your undergrad gpa.

I would retake the DAT to get 21+AA because I personally feel dental schools are getting very competitive every year that passes. I wouldn't be surprised if the average DAT score in NY dental schools was a 21-22.

Definitely fix your personal statement. Best of Luck

Edit: I almost forgot, you must apply first batch (it has to be submitted before August)!

NYU's average is 21 now

 

[DOC YANKEM]

I highly doubt it's 22. I know many people irl that have 20s and below.

Let's make it 22 next application cycle.

 

[GioBQ]

Some schools base their acceptance on the academics and dat, some other schools make a holistic review. Make sure the schools you choose goes with your application and your "personality".. make sure you correct your personal statement. I am pretty sure everyone starts with a horrible dental experience, be different.
Yes, you applied a little late, but I met other people that got accepted (you need to aim for a pre-December interview..
Dat is not bad, I got in with an 18AA and 21 PAT.. but if you are planning on retaking it, make sure you get a higher score..
Good luck, don't give up..


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[predental21250]

Redo your PS without including any negativity from that experience with the dentist. Retake your DATs. Instead of spending time doing more community service hours, how about putting those towards your DAT retake? Also you applying in September is absolutely what killed your chances. Have everything ready to apply before August. This game is all about rolling admissions, so the earlier you submit the higher the chances that you will get in.