Where do FM make most money?

[skatertudoroga]

I read that in usa FM=200k is considered good. But in canada i heard it's $300k and in australia also $300k+. And in both of those you can get additional training to do more procedural work because those countries have fewer specialists while in usa, even in a suburban area, you compete with IM even for primary care patients. And in those countries you practice less defensive medicine. Anyway, what are the salaries like in all these countries? Why would FM want to stay in usa if my assertions are correct?
p.s. rural in australia or canada can mean 50miles from a major city like vancouver while in usa it is southwest texas. And in usa if you make more money as a rural physician it is not because the government(i.e. richer urban areas) subsidizes you but because there is less competition and you charge the poor patients.

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[deleted87716]

Not sure where you're getting your information.

Source: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/

 

[McGillGrad]

He is referring to GPs in Canada and Australia. GPs in Canada make close to 200k, on average. Here is the official table of salaries.

Your graph is related to purchasing power, and since the US has cheap food, real estate and taxes, your purchasing power will be exaggerated.

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/en/media_20091126_tab2_e.html

Not sure where you're getting your information.

Source: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/

 

[322351]

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[skatertudoroga]

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[deleted87716]

Your graph is related to purchasing power, and since the US has cheap food, real estate and taxes, your purchasing power will be exaggerated.

Not sure what you mean by "exaggerated." Doctors throughout most of Europe and Canada are taxed to the gills. Purchasing power, which is reflective of cost-of-living, taxes, etc., is absolutely relevant - unless you don't intend to actually live in the country in which you work. You can't simply show gross payments (as you did in your graph) and not take into account how much or how little of that will remain after expenses and taxes.

 

[skatertudoroga]

Not sure what you mean by "exaggerated." Doctors throughout most of Europe and Canada are taxed to the gills. Purchasing power, which is reflective of cost-of-living, taxes, etc., is absolutely relevant - unless you don't intend to actually live in the country in which you work. You can't simply show gross payments (as you did in your graph) and not take into account how much or how little of that will remain after expenses and taxes.

When you include income, taxes, cost of unknown goods, it is easy to mask any inaccuracies. The initial question was about income only. Some people spend their money on cars or on vegetables or on taxes. It's wrong to say that my salary should be cut by 10% just because eggs cost 10% less in my country.

P.s. in Europe you get services for your taxes. In usa taxes pay the cops who are ready to arrest me and end my career for "drinking in public".

 

[deleted87716]

Why would FM want to stay in usa if my assertions are correct?

Because they aren't.

 

[Shinken]

Never mind, I take back my post.

 

[digitlnoize]

Where do FM make most money?

In offices where the FP knows how to bill correctly. Also, concierge practices in very affluent areas.

If you're interested in some hard numbers in other countries you can always try here: http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/

As others have pointed out, having the net income figure in dollar amounts doesn't really give you much information because it doesn't factor in tax rates, cost of living, loss of freedom, etc.

I, for one, wouldn't move to Australia for pretty much any salary, because a) I like it here and b) I'd miss my family. Canada is too cold, so I'm not even considering thinking about how much they might pay...it's not enough.

My advice to anyone reading this: Spend less time worrying about money and more time worry about what makes you happy. If you're a doc, you'll be just fine. Chillax.

 

[skatertudoroga]

In offices where the FP knows how to bill correctly. Also, concierge practices in very affluent areas.

If you're interested in some hard numbers in other countries you can always try here: http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/

As others have pointed out, having the net income figure in dollar amounts doesn't really give you much information because it doesn't factor in tax rates, cost of living, loss of freedom, etc.

I, for one, wouldn't move to Australia for pretty much any salary, because a) I like it here and b) I'd miss my family. Canada is too cold, so I'm not even considering thinking about how much they might pay...it's not enough.

My advice to anyone reading this: Spend less time worrying about money and more time worry about what makes you happy. If you're a doc, you'll be just fine. Chillax.

Interesting article from this blog http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2008/04/rural-vs-urban-primary-care-doc-incomes.html
In USA you are not rewarded for being a rural physician! In Canada I read that at the least your payments per patient are the same in rural areas. In Australia your payments are most definitely higher for doing rural work.

Anyway, I've read on numerous websites that GP's in canada and especially australia pull >$300k/yr in rural areas and they do not have surgeon hours. I have no real proof to support this claim. But I have noted that when asked about the salaries in USA, you have confirmed that in USA $200k/yr is considered good for FM unless you "know how to bill" or something equally unlikely for a no-good businessman.

 

[deleted87716]

On the subject of primary care incomes:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/07/primary-care-salaries-addressed-improve-health-care.html

Primary care salaries need to be addressed to improve health care

by Kevin Pho, MD

Physician salaries are always a sensitive topic.

A common view among health reforms is that doctors, in general, are paid too much. Various progressive pundits point to statistics showing that American doctors are the highest paid in the world.

For many specialists, that may be true. But not for primary care.

A recent Tweet by Ves Dimov pointed me to an article from the UK, stating that primary care doctors working in the National Health System are the highest paid in the world — an average of 106,000 pounds, or about $160,000.

It’s well known that the UK’s health system is based on a strong primary care foundation, leading the country to do well on a variety of health measures.

With an upcoming mandate in the UK that primary care doctors expand their hours, their pay is set to go even higher:

Family doctors in Britain are already the most highly-paid in the world, taking home an average of £106,000 a year – up more than 40 per cent since a lucrative contract signed in 2003.

But they pay looks set to rocket even further, because Health Secretary Andrew Lansley wants to hand them extra power to commission services for their patients, effectively putting them in control of Health Service spending.​

Progressive commentators like to point how the American health system does poorly when compared to countries abroad. And yes, the numbers don’t lie.

But to improve our standing, it will take a fundamental transformation of primary care in the United States. And, as the UK has shown, that takes a strong financial commitment to primary care salaries that most reformers don’t advocate vocally enough.