Where do parents learn to be parents?

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This post, as well as because of the dozen other books or articles already mentioned on this thread is why I don't really do this stuff.

Lets advocate for the basics and leave the PR and pop psych stuff to Dr. Phil. The weather man don't know when its gonna rain...and we don't really know **** about **** in regards to parenting beyond Maslow. In the grand scheme of things....its not really our role anyway. Sleep Training? Talk about that to a parent from Latin America/South America and see how important or necessary that is, lol.

Not just Latin America. I worked with some local Iraqi refugee families for a while and it was pretty typical for their two year olds to not be in bed before midnight. 10 year olds seemed to = 1 AM bedtime. Nobody in the community thought this was at all remarkable.

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Not just Latin America. I worked with some local Iraqi refugee families for a while and it was pretty typical for their two year olds to not be in bed before midnight. 10 year olds seemed to = 1 AM bedtime. Nobody in the community thought this was at all remarkable.

yes we all obviously know that people in other countries and even within this country do things very differently, in some countries they eat other human beings, that’s not the point. The point is, can developmental psychology tell us anything about parenting aside from what the laymen already knows and are there easily accessible resources to guide us in these best practices? It seems from this board the consensus has been that we don’t know much about parenting aside from the very obvious stuff and to “leave it alone” because it’s a “free country.” There have been a few people that actually provided some good resources and insights so I don’t think that’s completely the attitude but did find it entertaining that it has been the prevailing attitude, I think likely because there aren’t many child trained people on this board and so ignorance is bliss I guess?
 
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yes we all obviously know that people in other countries and even within this country do things very differently, in some countries they eat other human beings, that’s not the point. The point is, can developmental psychology tell us anything about parenting aside from what the laymen already knows and are there easily accessible resources to guide us in these best practices? It seems from this board the consensus has been that we don’t know much about parenting aside from the very obvious stuff and to “leave it alone” because it’s a “free country.” There have been a few people that actually provided some good resources and insights so I don’t think that’s completely the attitude but did find it entertaining that it has been the prevailing attitude, I think likely because there aren’t many child trained people on this board and so ignorance is bliss I guess?

The way I look at this thread is a bit like if OP came to a forum for food inspectors and asked "how do we learn to run a good restaurant?" When the food inspectors pointed out that there are a lot of different ways to run a good restaurant, and mostly they were trained to identify/intervene on bad food practices -- in order to improve health and limit illness -- the OP became upset.
 
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yes we all obviously know that people in other countries and even within this country do things very differently, in some countries they eat other human beings, that’s not the point. The point is, can developmental psychology tell us anything about parenting aside from what the laymen already knows and are there easily accessible resources to guide us in these best practices? It seems from this board the consensus has been that we don’t know much about parenting aside from the very obvious stuff and to “leave it alone” because it’s a “free country.” There have been a few people that actually provided some good resources and insights so I don’t think that’s completely the attitude but did find it entertaining that it has been the prevailing attitude, I think likely because there aren’t many child trained people on this board and so ignorance is bliss I guess?

I think you're right. There just aren't many kid psychologists on this board. There might be a market for a parenting 101 academy or something.
 
Skinner box

John B. Watson (of Little Albert fame) did a lot of thinking and writing on this topic.

So, because experts in the past got it wrong, it's too complicated and we shouldn't even try? Smh...Haldol gives people tardive dyskinesia so by that logic we shouldn't research psych meds. If I'm misrepresenting you tell me, but that's how you're coming across. I read Watson's parenting manual in my history of psych seminar, it's some scary a**-s***, but holding it up as "You see, this is why we don't say anything about parenting" seems to be a strange position to take.

Oh, and P.S., Here's an observation on the Skinner Air Crib.

Well, not entirely. As MamaPhD mentioned, what started out seeming like an open-ended question turned into a discussion about "superior" behaviors.

As others pointed out, that kind of shifted things from a discussion of general findings from the literature.

Well, sure. I didn't read the OP is asking for a cook book, but that seems to be the consensus from others. I read it as: "Hey, you guys are psychologists, right? Know anything about parenting? I want to give out some resources to my patients." It took me all of two minutes to google some monitor articles, skim them, and paste them into the thread. I get that there's cultural variance, but that doesn't stop us about making claims for what's effective in psychotherapy or the meaning of certain psychological tests for individuals.
 
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Fair points re: perception of the thread. I am not a child psych, although have training in that world. My experience informs my views and hesitance to confidently point you in one and somewhat concrete direction. There is a lot of nuance to parenting I've found to go along with contradictory findings. There were some decent resources thrown out I guess, but I didn't see many peer-reviewed articles being written about this stuff. I'm guessing for the reasons I stated above. I'll let the full time child people correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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So, because experts in the past got it wrong, it's too complicated and we shouldn't even try? Smh...Haldol gives people ****ive dyskinesia so by that logic we shouldn't research psych meds. If I'm misrepresenting you tell me, but that's how you're coming across. I read Watson's parenting manual in my history of psych seminar, it's some scary a**-s***, but holding it up as "You see, this is why we don't say anything about parenting" seems to be a strange position to take.
I can see how you might assume that, but that wasn't my intention. Simply pointing out a historical example. I believe Watson applied a lot of his theories to raising his own children and that seemed to have gone well according to some reports, to my memory.

Broken link?


Well, sure. I didn't read the OP is asking for a cook book, but that seems to be the consensus from others. I read it as: "Hey, you guys are psychologists, right? Know anything about parenting? I want to give out some resources to my patients." It took me all of two minutes to google some monitor articles, skim them, and paste them into the thread. I get that there's cultural variance, but that doesn't stop us about making claims for what's effective in psychotherapy or the meaning of certain psychological tests for individuals.

That's great. I poked through the resources a bit, and don't know that they add much beyond what we've discussed in the thread. This could be boiled down to something like, "don't harm children."

I want to point my patients to resources or books they can read when they’re pregnant so that they know how to raise their child in the most healthy way, what books do you guys/girls recommend that’s psychologist approved?

I think what many have pointed out, and which I agree with, is simply that there is no gold standard, "most healthy way," to raise children. Personally, I like Kabat-Zinn's "Everyday Blessings: The Inner Work of Mindful Parenting." I would never claim that it's the "gold standard," though. It's like with restaurants. I really like Asian food, especially Korean, and especially-especially this Korean-steakhouse fusion restaurant near where I live. Would I say it's the gold standard? Not at all. A lot of my friends don't like Asian food, so I wouldn't even recommend they check it out. Same thing goes for parenting styles.
 
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Broken link?

Does this work?

 
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Perhaps recommend to your patients that they don't neglect their own self-care and mental health/well-being. I don't work with kiddos, but in my elderly patients who require caregivers, I spend a good bit of time in my feedback sessions discussing the importance of self-care for caregivers. Not a perfect analogy, but I wouldn't be surprised that some/many parents forget to take care of themselves.

So things like participation in enjoyable activities, maintaining a social network, incorporating childcare supports as needed (e.g., professional childcare, help from friends/family), healthy diet and exercise, reducing isolation, maintaining the health of the romantic/partner relationship (if applicable), etc.

And heck, it'd probably be helpful for (especially new) parents to know how resilient kiddos generally are.
 
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One issue with this particular discussion is likely that the question "How do you learn to parent" is much too broad and vague. We have entire books on narrow categories such as sleep in development. May be helpful is the question was geared towards more specific questions for resources. E.g., resources for teaching kids emotion regulation strategies while also keeping in mind the level of cognitive development that they are at and what they can realistically do at that level of development?
 
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discussing the importance of self-care for caregivers. Not a perfect analogy, but I wouldn't be surprised that some/many parents forget to take care of themselves.

This is so true for, especially for parents of kids with special needs or chronic illnesses. Shoot, my wife and I neglect self care, and we should know better.
 
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So, because experts in the past got it wrong, it's too complicated and we shouldn't even try? Smh...Haldol gives people ****ive dyskinesia so by that logic we shouldn't research psych meds. If I'm misrepresenting you tell me, but that's how you're coming across. I read Watson's parenting manual in my history of psych seminar, it's some scary a**-s***, but holding it up as "You see, this is why we don't say anything about parenting" seems to be a strange position to take.

Oh, and P.S., Here's an observation on the Skinner Air Crib.



Well, sure. I didn't read the OP is asking for a cook book, but that seems to be the consensus from others. I read it as: "Hey, you guys are psychologists, right? Know anything about parenting? I want to give out some resources to my patients." It took me all of two minutes to google some monitor articles, skim them, and paste them into the thread. I get that there's cultural variance, but that doesn't stop us about making claims for what's effective in psychotherapy or the meaning of certain psychological tests for individuals.

thank you! I thought I was crazy or something..you and a few others are the only ones to understand what I perceived to be a straightforward question that I guess was misinterpreted 30 different ways. A lot of people posted good resources, I will now take time to look over those to see what to provide to patients, thanks everyone!


One issue with this particular discussion is likely that the question "How do you learn to parent" is much too broad and vague. We have entire books on narrow categories such as sleep in development. May be helpful is the question was geared towards more specific questions for resources. E.g., resources for teaching kids emotion regulation strategies while also keeping in mind the level of cognitive development that they are at and what they can realistically do at that level of development?

I was intentionally vague because I wanted “gold standard” resources for all of the categories above and more. It would be very nice to be able to, when a patient comes in with behavioral issues regarding their kid or sleep problems or whatever to be like “yeah I actually know a good “psychologist approved/recommended” book to help you with that- here it is“
 
I was intentionally vague because I wanted “gold standard” resources for all of the categories above and more. It would be very nice to be able to, when a patient comes in with behavioral issues regarding their kid or sleep problems or whatever to be like “yeah I actually know a good “psychologist approved/recommended” book to help you with that- here it is“

As a specialist in cognition, married to a physician who primarily sees OB/peds, and also a parent, you will not find a "gold standard" omnibus resource for all of parenting in regards to psychology.
 
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As a specialist in cognition, married to a physician who primarily sees OB/peds, and also a parent, you will not find a "gold standard" omnibus resource for all of parenting in regards to psychology.
So you're rich?
 
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thank you! I thought I was crazy or something..you and a few others are the only ones to understand what I perceived to be a straightforward question that I guess was misinterpreted 30 different ways. A lot of people posted good resources, I will now take time to look over those to see what to provide to patients, thanks everyone!

No problem. I do agree with @WisNeuro though that you're not going to find some omniscient resource as it will depend on the presenting concern. However, there is good research on some strategies that parents can use with their kids :)
 
Not a parent, but... You can consult the evidence on certain parenting practices and that can be useful, IMO. Like "cry it out" for example.

I also have a colleague who told me the most useful thing they learned for parenting was dog training, which is of course all behaviorism. Lol.
 
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I also have a colleague who told me the most useful thing they learned for parenting was dog training, which is of course all behaviorism. Lol.

This has been my experience.
 
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I wonder if there is a difference between how it's spoken about and whether you inherited wealth, or built it all yourself?

In my experience, there is a huge difference in people who have multi-generational wealth vs. building it all for oneself vs. a rich kid.

This discussion reminds of the book The Millionaire Next Door, and what it says about parenting...
 
I also have a colleague who told me the most useful thing they learned for parenting was dog training, which is of course all behaviorism. Lol.

Absolutely! I love this book and often recommend it to patients. Positive reinforcement/behavior shaping, not specific to children, but it works great for children, spouses, pets, and other living things.

Amazon product
 
I wonder if there is a difference between how it's spoken about and whether you inherited wealth, or built it all yourself?
Honestly, I'd take the "talking about money" approach of flashy, noveau-rich types over the multigenerational wealth types, in my experience. At least the former appreciate that not everyone has a few extra million dollars lying around, which is a huge blindspot I've noticed in people who come from heavy wealth.
 
Honestly, I'd take the "talking about money" approach of flashy, noveau-rich types over the multigenerational wealth types, in my experience. At least the former appreciate that not everyone has a few extra million dollars lying around, which is a huge blindspot I've noticed in people who come from heavy wealth.

We tend to hang out with folks similar to us, live relatively frugally, well, but not as outwardly visible. Like, we don't care about expensive cars or such. I'd say the most overt display of wealth I have is probably my liquor cabinet.

Of course we also have some other professional friends who live above their means, 7 figure home, new cars every few years, despite HUGE loans. I'd rather not have debt, invest, and have the option of retiring early, than having those things.
 
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We tend to hang out with folks similar to us, live relatively frugally, well, but not as outwardly visible. Like, we don't care about expensive cars or such. I'd say the most overt display of wealth I have is probably my liquor cabinet.

Of course we also have some other professional friends who live above their means, 7 figure home, new cars every few years, despite HUGE loans. I'd rather not have debt, invest, and have the option of retiring early, than having those things.

WisNeuro, I didn't mean to call you out or anything. I wouldn't harsh you or your wife for making some awesome decisions and putting in the work.

I do harsh on you for sitting on some Pappy, though.
 
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Ha, no worries. I'm not ashamed of being well off. My wife and I both grew up below middle class, so there's no embarrassment as we both made it through school and professional training with no family financial help.

I am sitting on that Pappy, though. Damn stuff is hard to find. I got lucky and won a random drawing to buy it as cost from my local supplier. I'm definitely not buying it on the secondary market for what people are asking for it!
 
We tend to hang out with folks similar to us, live relatively frugally, well, but not as outwardly visible. Like, we don't care about expensive cars or such. I'd say the most overt display of wealth I have is probably my liquor cabinet.

Of course we also have some other professional friends who live above their means, 7 figure home, new cars every few years, despite HUGE loans. I'd rather not have debt, invest, and have the option of retiring early, than having those things.

I mean you’re not a physician and she’s OB I think you said so I don’t think you’re that wealthy right? I’m not sure why people are making this a big deal lol it’s not like you guys are pulling in 1M+ yearly..probably nearing the 500k mark which is nice
 
I mean you’re not a physician and she’s OB I think you said so I don’t think you’re that wealthy right? I’m not sure why people are making this a big deal lol it’s not like you guys are pulling in 1M+ yearly..probably nearing the 500k mark which is nice

You are assuming several things. One, that we are both making the average for our professions. Two, that neither of us does forensic work (which pays 4-8X clinical pay, prorated hourly, depending on which service). And three, that we do not have multiple sources of passive income or other investments that add a substantial amount to yearly income.
 
You are assuming several things. One, that we are both making the average for our professions. Two, that neither of us does forensic work (which pays 4-8X clinical pay, prorated hourly, depending on which service). And three, that we do not have multiple sources of passive income or other investments that add a substantial amount to yearly income.

so you’re making 1 million per year as an OB and psychologist?
 
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I'll just say that our clinical income alone was above the mark you quoted in the previous fiscal year. The rest is up to me and my tax guy.

you’re a psychologist tho lol how much do you make? She must be making bank?
 
WisNeuro might be one of the richest non measure publishing psychs...

That being said, good for him and his wife. It’s inspiring.
 
What @PsyDr said. She outearns me on the clinical side by a decent amount, but a significant portion of my income is nonclinical. Never having debt helps.

there’s no point in having this convo if no specifics are actually being provided lol..either way you’re doing well but not baller physician well
 
there’s no point in having this convo if no specifics are actually being provided lol..either way you’re doing well but not baller physician well
...I don't understand why you care?
It seems you're dropping into different forums asking some lifestyle questions. Maybe start a new thread or use the search function?
 
...I don't understand why you care?
It seems you're dropping into different forums asking some lifestyle questions. Maybe start a new thread or use the search function?

I don’t understand what your saying, why do you care that I care?
 
there’s no point in having this convo if no specifics are actually being provided lol..either way you’re doing well but not baller physician well
If you want to talk finances, pm me. Wealth building is rarely about active income. Otherwise, thus thread needs to return to it's original topic.
 
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DkHY.gif
 
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Back to topic :)
Perhaps recommend to your patients that they don't neglect their own self-care and mental health/well-being. I don't work with kiddos, but in my elderly patients who require caregivers, I spend a good bit of time in my feedback sessions discussing the importance of self-care for caregivers. Not a perfect analogy, but I wouldn't be surprised that some/many parents forget to take care of themselves.

So things like participation in enjoyable activities, maintaining a social network, incorporating childcare supports as needed (e.g., professional childcare, help from friends/family), healthy diet and exercise, reducing isolation, maintaining the health of the romantic/partner relationship (if applicable), etc.

And heck, it'd probably be helpful for (especially new) parents to know how resilient kiddos generally are.
+1 for this. Healthy parenting benefits from being a healthy parent. Or as the saying goes, you gotta put your oxygen mask on first if you have any hope of helping the people next to you when a plane suddenly loses altitude. :help:

Also important to remember the temperament of parent-child dyad will impact parenting as well. You can have the most laid-back parent in the world raising a rigid/inflexible and difficult to soothe child and “gold star” strategies could still be ineffective. Or a highly energetic (anxious) intense and rigid parent raising a flexible, adaptable and open to experience child that leads to frequent conflicts. What works for one child may not work for another. It’s always good to have multiple options instead of a one-size-fits-all approach.

I am a child-focused clinician (not a psychologist) and my experience working with kids and families so far suggests in general:
1. Kids do best/thrive with routine and predictability in their life. Some need more structure than others. But knowing how your day will be decreases the chance of behavior issues or mood difficulties.
2. Kids need to learn positive and negative consequences of their actions. This starts in infancy (if I cry, who will respond to me and how will they respond) and continues through life. Sticker charts, behavior charts, rewards, punishments it’s all based on the development level of the child.
3. Behavior is the child’s way of communication until they develop the language to express needs and wants. Modeling healthy communication (labeling feelings, actions, results, expectations and requests) by the parent goes a long way in raising healthy children (physical and emotional).
4. Kids need connections with others. Connections with parents, with peers, and with the community. Different cultures place different value on those connections so be mindful of the family culture. Involvement with positive adults, peers, and activities can foster healthy and resilient children. Some children need extra support in developing those connections (developmental delays, autism etc).
5. Parenting is exhausting. It’s ok to ask for help or get an outside perspective. That might be from a professional or family/friend. It’s ok to feel like you are winging it (most parents at some point in parenting are :laugh: ) or praying to justmake it through the day. For the majority of folks, they will and tomorrow is a new day.
6. To the extent possible, avoid or limit the ACEs to give kids the best possible chance at success in life.
 
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1. Kids do best/thrive with routine and predictability in their life. Some need more structure than others. But knowing how your day will be decreases the chance of behavior issues or mood difficulties.

+1 For your sanity as a parent, make sleep a routine. Don't shift around bedtimes and wakeup unless you enjoy broken sleep.

Edit: Of course this is after so many months. A routine is somewhat hopeless in those first 4-6 months or so. You just have to weather those months.
 
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+1 For your sanity as a parent, make sleep a routine. Don't shift around bedtimes and wakeup unless you enjoy broken sleep.

Edit: Of course this is after so many months. A routine is somewhat hopeless in those first 4-6 months or so. You just have to weather those months.

This is so true. BTW, my wife and I did an online sleep class from Taking Cara Babies when my son was 4 weeks old. I HIGHLY recommend it.

You'd also be surprised how controversial sleep training is. Taking Cara Babies is not sleep training, but rather a really awesome resource on how to get a baby to sleep, create routines, etc. My kid had a amazing routine at 3 months. I remember when he started going through the night on his own. It was so amazing.

But, this week has been tough and we're having to re-sleep train my son a bit. Last week he was teething, so we sort of comforted him too much at bed time and this week he has protested. This sort of reinforced the crying at bedtime. So this week we've been doing some extinction. He finally went to bed after only 5 minutes of protesting last night.
 
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