Where should I go from here?

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Medicinewoman85

Thats what she says
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I've been very hesitant about posting my personal situation because I don't want any negative feedback. I am trying to figure out everything that I need to get done in order to fulfill my dream of becoming a docto:love:r.

Just to give some background info, I am 27 and I recently quit my job of 7 years so that I can pursue this dream. My main reasons were that I attempted to go to school full time and work full time, which was a disaster as my GPA took a real hit:scared:. I'm starting my pre reqs this fall so my question is what do I need to do next (other than get my GPA up and ace the mcat). Since I am a non traditional student is it necessary that I volunteer, join a club, and shadow a doctor? :eek: I have 2 kids so I am trying to figure out how can I balance my family and school and preparing to apply to medical school.

I did work in law enforcement for several years and as a result I had the opportunity to work very closely with doctors and nurses (I worked in the medical unit of a jail and a trauma 1 hospital) So my question is do I need to gain further clinical experience in a different setting? Is it necessary to shadow a doctor even though I have been exposed to exactly what they do in a clinical setting? Sorry if my post is all over the place but I am just trying to get a clear understanding of what I need to do for my situation. Thanks in advance for any help.

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Just because you are a non-trad doesn't mean you get out of the stuff the rest of the applicants are doing. We are all non-trads on here, and we all have done the same stuff, if not more of it, than the 'traditional' students. So, shadowing is still important, volunteering is still important, all of those things besides GPA/MCAT are still important. Look for volunteer options at a hospital if it interests you, food shelf, soup kitchens, free clinics, etc those are very good places to volunteer, and the time commitment is usually reasonable. Make sure you shadow even if you have had your LE experience, it isn't the same as following a doctor. Also, make sure you have a solid personal statement, and solid LORs. Apply early, and good luck :)
 
I wasn't trying to imply that I get out of shadow free card because of my experience:), but I was really trying to understand if my experience counted as "clinical experience". See the thing is I have actually had to follow a doctor while they treat their "patients" (inmates). I've seen everything a doctor does from doing a check up, resuscitate a patient who passed out, I've seen surgeries, I even witnessed a doctor deliver a baby. Like if I've seen everything except maybe open heart surgery.

I definetly want to volunteer somewhere so that I can gain exposure to patients in a different setting. But does anything I've experience count towards experience. Thanks for your input.
 
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SBB 2016 hit the nail on the head. I'm a working Paramedic with almost 10 years of direct patient contact, but I'm still having to shadow and volunteer. It was explained to me the best that following a doctor in an official capacity is different than shadowing for medical school interest. Plus, if you are planning on the Osteopathic route, shadowing a DO is absolutely necessary-DO schools will want a letter of recommendation from a DO.

I'd focus on the pre-reqs right now, get that GPA up! Start talking to your schools pre-health advisors, they can give you good advice and options-possibly shadowing and volunteer opportunities.

Some of what you have done may be looked on favorably depending on school, or may even make good thoughts to cover in your personal statment.

Good Luck with your endeavors, you are not alone in this journey, we all had to make the decision and make that leap of faith to get started!
 
SBB 2016 hit the nail on the head. I'm a working Paramedic with almost 10 years of direct patient contact, but I'm still having to shadow and volunteer. It was explained to me the best that following a doctor in an official capacity is different than shadowing for medical school interest. Plus, if you are planning on the Osteopathic route, shadowing a DO is absolutely necessary-DO schools will want a letter of recommendation from a DO.

I'd focus on the pre-reqs right now, get that GPA up! Start talking to your schools pre-health advisors, they can give you good advice and options-possibly shadowing and volunteer opportunities.

Some of what you have done may be looked on favorably depending on school, or may even make good thoughts to cover in your personal statment.

Good Luck with your endeavors, you are not alone in this journey, we all had to make the decision and make that leap of faith to get started!


Thanks for the advice and I am up for the challenge. Wish me luck this spring semester.:xf:
 
Aside from substantial clinical exposure, which gives med school admissions committees some confidence that you comprehend the job you're interviewing for, you need:

1. Evidence that you can handle a massive load of very difficult science coursework over multiple years. Usually this evidence is a high undergrad GPA. Average GPA for med school students is about 3.6. Below about 3.3, you don't have the needed evidence, and you need to do more undergrad and/or an SMP.

2. Evidence that you can succeed on the hours-long multiple choice exams that happen constantly during med school, and that are between you and licensure (boards). Usually this evidence is a high MCAT. Average MCAT for US MD students is 31+, DO is about 27+. Taking the MCAT more than once shows that you need multiple tries to do well on standardized exams, which is not good, because those multiple tries come boards are excruciating for you and the school.

3. Evidence that you can work within a system and distinguish yourself among your peers. Usually this evidence is in letters of recommendation from faculty and/or employers who know you and upon whom you've made a good impression, and in activities where you show responsibility and leadership. Usually this is where nontrads are substantially better off than trads.

4. Evidence that you are familiar with, and knowledgeable about, the US healthcare system. Do you comprehend what it means when a patient has no insurance, and what that patient's rights are, and why? Do you comprehend billing, administration, liability, scheduling, staffing? Usually this evidence is in varied clinical exposure hours (100+ is typical) and in solid answers to interview questions. One way to gain comprehension of US healthcare issues is daily reading of the health sections of major newspapers from both political sides (NYT & WSJ). There are also good books to read. Shadowing an unhappy physician is another good source.

Age discrimination tends to be used as a convenient and incorrect reason, by older applicants who have weak applications, for not getting accepted.

About 45,000 students apply to US MD schools every year, and about 20,000 are accepted. 10,000 of the 45,000 are reapplicants. US DO schools get about 10,000 apps for about 5,000 seats.

See aamc.org or aacomas.org or www.utsystem.edu/tmdsas/ for data sources.

Best of luck to you.
 
Luck wished

The shadowing you were doing isn't really shadowing, as Cajun said. The other thing is, you'll need a letter from one of these docs, and that probably won't be given because you followed them to maintain their safety. Try to find some family medicine docs to shadow, and if you plan to apply DO, make sure you can find one. Most schools will take an MD letter, but they usually prefer a DO... There are a few exceptions, like LECOM will not take an MD letter under any circumstances...
 
4. Evidence that you are familiar with, and knowledgeable about, the US healthcare system. Do you comprehend what it means when a patient has no insurance, and what that patient's rights are, and why? Do you comprehend billing, administration, liability, scheduling, staffing?
Sheesh, I don't even understand most of that stuff, beyond what it means when a patient has no health insurance. That we deal with all the time. I'm going to add "MSW" to my name by the time residency is done. :hungover:

OP, if you want honest input that will actually be helpful, you have to accept that some of it may not be what you want to hear. Hopefully people will be supportive and constructive, but none of us can improve without being criticized. That being said, I agree with most of what DrM said, with the exception of what I quoted above. You're probably ok not knowing how to administer a medical practice as a premed. ;)
 
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the advice and I will make sure I follow it. I plan to start looking for a physician to shadow asap.

Do most non trad apply to DO schools? Just wondering. Again thanks for everyone.
 
Do most non trad apply to DO schools? Just wondering. Again thanks for everyone.

I think a lot of nontrads include DO schools as part of the strategy of applying broadly, and especially if one is retaking courses (AACOMAS uses grade replacement rather than averaging for multiple attempts at the same course).
 
Do most non trad apply to DO schools?
Nontrad is a very wide spectrum, and this forum sees traffic from squeaky clean 21 year olds who graduated college before they decided to go to med school, and 54 year olds with 13 kids who haven't started college yet (remember that guy?). So saying "nontrads mostly do X" is like saying "right-handed people mostly do X".

People apply to DO schools for lots of reasons:
- grew up among DOs
- DO schools in ideal locations
- perception that a DO philosophy is desirable
- intention to practice osteopathic manipulation
- low GPA or low MCAT (but not both)

Now, if you've worked and paid rent and suffered for some years (if you're that kind of nontrad), then you're in a good position to figure out whether DO is something you'd be happy with, because you'll probably be worried about appropriate issues in choosing schools (instead of trying to get close to Green Bay to watch Packer games, or following a cute boy to med school). Read the Gevitz book for history. Compare/contrast the curriculum and costs and residency options. Browse the feedback from DO grads in the SDN osteo forum. With some perspective, you can tell what's important (such as identical MD/DO practice rights) and what's not (such as "we treat the whole patient" with which only crappy MDs disagree).

Point being, yes there are differences between the MD and DO paths to practice, but those differences take some work to understand, and they may or may not matter to you.

Best of luck to you.
 
Nontrad is a very wide spectrum, and this forum sees traffic from squeaky clean 21 year olds who graduated college before they decided to go to med school, and 54 year olds with 13 kids who haven't started college yet (remember that guy?). So saying "nontrads mostly do X" is like saying "right-handed people mostly do X".

People apply to DO schools for lots of reasons:
- grew up among DOs
- DO schools in ideal locations
- perception that a DO philosophy is desirable
- intention to practice osteopathic manipulation
- low GPA or low MCAT (but not both)

Now, if you've worked and paid rent and suffered for some years (if you're that kind of nontrad), then you're in a good position to figure out whether DO is something you'd be happy with, because you'll probably be worried about appropriate issues in choosing schools (instead of trying to get close to Green Bay to watch Packer games, or following a cute boy to med school). Read the Gevitz book for history. Compare/contrast the curriculum and costs and residency options. Browse the feedback from DO grads in the SDN osteo forum. With some perspective, you can tell what's important (such as identical MD/DO practice rights) and what's not (such as "we treat the whole patient" with which only crappy MDs disagree).

Point being, yes there are differences between the MD and DO paths to practice, but those differences take some work to understand, and they may or may not matter to you.

Best of luck to you.


To be perfectly honest I don't see much difference of MD/DO. Because I am married with children, I have a house, family ties to my area I would prefer to go to medical school in my home state. For me I think that means limiting myself to 5 schools.:eek: However I am willingly to do what is neccessary to get into med school so if I have to move my family cross country ( and rent my house out) I think I am willing.
 
Best of luck to you. I'm in a similar boat - except I'm older than you - I just quit my job after 12 1/2 years to pursue this dream. :scared:

I, too, am in Georgia and would love to stay in my home state. However, with my undergrad GPA from 10+ years ago, MD will be difficult for me, which limits me to one in-state option for DO, so I fully expect to have to move.

Even though my early GPA is HORRIFIC, I still have a solid 3 years of work left to complete my undergrad, so I'm hoping that a solid showing now and a solid MCAT score will get me in the door at DO schools. With the number of attempted hours I have (lots of WF's on my record), it'll be hard to get my cGPA up to a reasonable number for MD schools, but I am hopeful that with grade replacement, I can achieve a reasonably competitive cGPA for DO schools.

My one saving grace is that I have only 1 math and 1 science course under my belt, so it's highly likely that I'll be one of those with a much higher sGPA than my cGPA.

Good luck with your journey - and I think your experiences, while they won't count for your shadowing hours, will certainly be an asset to you! :luck:
 
I have a question about the MCAT for someone who is JUST starting out - I went online to just look at a practice test for the MCAT and everything on it was Greek. Is that ok? Just me freaking out here a little cos I haven't yet begun to start my undercourse work. So, is it ok that everything on the MCAT looked Greek?
 
I have a question about the MCAT for someone who is JUST starting out - I went online to just look at a practice test for the MCAT and everything on it was Greek. Is that ok? Just me freaking out here a little cos I haven't yet begun to start my undercourse work. So, is it ok that everything on the MCAT looked Greek?
The verbal section should not look like Greek. If you haven't done any college yet, okay, but being able to read and reason, outside the realm of science, is what's tested in that section.

Not comprehending the science, before you've had any science, is expected.

Best of luck to you.
 
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