Where to go from here?

[bucknut2009]

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I am seeking some advice from anyone who as a couple minutes to spare. I am a graduating senior this year and so far I have not been accepted anywhere. I have recieved two interviews, one at NYU and one at Maryland. While I feel best about my chances at Maryland, I certainly do not feel confident that I will be getting in anywhere at this point.

As far as my stats, which are available on Predents, I have a 3.61 GPA and a 3.4 science GPA. I am finishing up my winter quarter and it looks like I will be getting a 4.0 this quarter which will raise my cGPA to some extent and my sGPA a bit more. I obviously don't know about Spring qtr but lets just say it doesn't have any effect. While my GPA is held down by my first year, I have had 3.75-4.0s since autumn quarter of my junior year and the last two quarters I have had 4.0s. I guess what I am saying is that I have an obvious and significant uptrend in my GPA whilst taking more advanced courses along the way. How much of an effect do you think this will have as well as having completed a BS by the time I reapply early this summer?

I am happy with my DAT scores except the PAT and I am worried about retaking because some schools take your latest score and I would hate to be worse off than I am now should I perform poorly for some reason. Also, if I retake, I will have to do so in the summer (later in July) so that I have enough time to study outside of school(ends beginning of June) because I have little time with my heavy course load. This will cause my application to get in late sorta like this current cycle where everything wasn't in(DAT) until beginning of September.

My ultimate question is whether you think the things I have done since I last applied (raise GPA, received degree, taken more upper level courses, more research, more shadowing) as well as getting my application submited in early June will be enough to offset not retaking the DAT? I hear many people talk about doing a Masters but I hate the thought of that as I think I would enjoy a year off to refresh, make some money, and get more experience in the field. It seems like those doing it have a little lower GPA than I do--but be sure to recommend if you think that is what I should do. Any and all input is greatly appreciated as I am really struggling with what I should do here.

 

[YayTeeth]

Your GPA is good enough, you do not need a masters program. If you have to reapply, just retake the DAT to show your motivation. You may not want to, but it shows how serious you are and cannot hurt! Maintain ur old scores (easy to do) and just boost ur PAT (get Crack DAT PAT). It won't take too long, because all the sciences will come back easily. I retook, maintained all my sciences, and went up in my 2 weaker sections (QR and RC). Even if u retake in September that would be fine. But, your DAT scores are overall, excellent. I'm surprised u are in this situation b/c ur grades are good, DAT excellent, and extracurriculars very good. Maybe your personal statement and LORS were not stellar. Did u have people read over your PS? Try and get 1-2 more new letters if u have to reapply. Also, nowadays dental schools expect people to take microbio, anatomy, physiology, biochem, immunology, and pathogens etc. Did u take a lot of upper division science courses? Also, did u apply late? I think u will get into Maryland or NYU...the game is not over! good luck!

 

[AlwaysImproving]

IMO, don't need to retake DAT or do masters if you want to get into dental school next year. The other stuff you said you will do suffices. Re-do you personal statement and try to see if you get *amazing* LORs.

 

[bucknut2009]

Your GPA is good enough, you do not need a masters program. If you have to reapply, just retake the DAT to show your motivation. You may not want to, but it shows how serious you are and cannot hurt! Maintain ur old scores (easy to do) and just boost ur PAT (get Crack DAT PAT). It won't take too long, because all the sciences will come back easily. I retook, maintained all my sciences, and went up in my 2 weaker sections (QR and RC). Even if u retake in September that would be fine. But, your DAT scores are overall, excellent. I'm surprised u are in this situation b/c ur grades are good, DAT excellent, and extracurriculars very good. Maybe your personal statement and LORS were not stellar. Did u have people read over your PS? Try and get 1-2 more new letters if u have to reapply. Also, nowadays dental schools expect people to take microbio, anatomy, physiology, biochem, immunology, and pathogens etc. Did u take a lot of upper division science courses? Also, did u apply late? I think u will get into Maryland or NYU...the game is not over! good luck!

Thank you for the response! This year (so not part of my app) I have taken Anatomy-A, my major is Micro (6 Micro courses so far all A/A-), Biochem last year=A-, final Ochem last quarter=A-(interstingly I took this class almost 2 years after taking the first two Ochems my sophmore year in which I got B-s). I am scheduled to take an immuno class next quarter. My subpar grades came from freshman year gen chem (2B-s and one C+), and math (C+, B-, A-). My application was submitted at the end of July but my file was not complete until the middle of September when my DAT scores finally got to the schools. Not sure about PS but certainly will try to do everything I can to improve that. Letters were from professors in classes I did very well in and which I formed some sort of relationship with over the course of a 10 week quarter. I think I have 2-3 professors lined up that would provide me with good letters. I really do appreciate your input and encouraging words-thanks alot.

 

[bucknut2009]

IMO, don't need to retake DAT or do masters if you want to get into dental school next year. The other stuff you said you will do suffices. Re-do you personal statement and try to see if you get *amazing* LORs.

How did you or would you go about getting those amazing LORs? Did you have some sense that they would be great letter writers? Our classes are so damn big that it is hard to get a good relationship going with a professor. I think I have a "big wig" researcher whom I work under that has since offered to write me a letter-he seems like a guy that is good with words and has some clout (MD-PhD, OBGYN professor, cutting edge cancer research, etc).

 

[Black Teeth]

I am seeking some advice from anyone who as a couple minutes to spare. I am a graduating senior this year and so far I have not been accepted anywhere. I have recieved two interviews, one at NYU and one at Maryland. While I feel best about my chances at Maryland, I certainly do not feel confident that I will be getting in anywhere at this point.

As far as my stats, which are available on Predents, I have a 3.61 GPA and a 3.4 science GPA. I am finishing up my winter quarter and it looks like I will be getting a 4.0 this quarter which will raise my cGPA to some extent and my sGPA a bit more. I obviously don't know about Spring qtr but lets just say it doesn't have any effect. While my GPA is held down by my first year, I have had 3.75-4.0s since autumn quarter of my junior year and the last two quarters I have had 4.0s. I guess what I am saying is that I have an obvious and significant uptrend in my GPA whilst taking more advanced courses along the way. How much of an effect do you think this will have as well as having completed a BS by the time I reapply early this summer?

I am happy with my DAT scores except the PAT and I am worried about retaking because some schools take your latest score and I would hate to be worse off than I am now should I perform poorly for some reason. Also, if I retake, I will have to do so in the summer (later in July) so that I have enough time to study outside of school(ends beginning of June) because I have little time with my heavy course load. This will cause my application to get in late sorta like this current cycle where everything wasn't in(DAT) until beginning of September.

My ultimate question is whether you think the things I have done since I last applied (raise GPA, received degree, taken more upper level courses, more research, more shadowing) as well as getting my application submited in early June will be enough to offset not retaking the DAT? I hear many people talk about doing a Masters but I hate the thought of that as I think I would enjoy a year off to refresh, make some money, and get more experience in the field. It seems like those doing it have a little lower GPA than I do--but be sure to recommend if you think that is what I should do. Any and all input is greatly appreciated as I am really struggling with what I should do here.

The suggestions given to you by the predents thus far sounds pretty good. I would also suggest that you take some time to improve your interview techniques and interview answers which is probably the most neglected aspect of dental school applications on SDN. Stats will only get you the interview but after that, the burden is entirely on you to earn your acceptance to dental school. Since two schools gave you interviews, you definitely had a chance to earn a spot in dental school for this cycle but for some reason, things didn't go as planned and the interviewers didn't feel that your application warranted a spot in next year's dental school class. So I would strongly recommend strengthening your interview techniques in addition to any stat improvements you think may be necessary.

 

[bucknut2009]

The suggestions given to you by the predents thus far sounds pretty good. I would also suggest that you take some time to improve your interview techniques and interview answers which is probably the most neglected aspect of dental school applications on SDN. Stats will only get you the interview but after that, the burden is entirely on you to earn your acceptance to dental school. Since two schools gave you interviews, you definitely had a chance to earn a spot in dental school for this cycle but for some reason, things didn't go as planned and the interviewers didn't feel that your application warranted a spot in next year's dental school class. So I would strongly recommend strengthening your interview techniques in addition to any stat improvements you think may be necessary.

Thank you for the response. Yea, I definityly see where you are coming from on the interview improvement. I'm actually glad to have had an interview as I think next time I will feel much more comforable and confident. Those were probably the first real interviews I have ever had and they were each worth the experience. I felt like they went good and I liked the feedback I got from my interviewers, although looking back on it there were a few things I wish I would have said or at least said differently. I haven't given up hope on those schools just yet though . Thanks again for your advice.

 

[AlwaysImproving]

How did you or would you go about getting those amazing LORs? Did you have some sense that they would be great letter writers? Our classes are so damn big that it is hard to get a good relationship going with a professor. I think I have a "big wig" researcher whom I work under that has since offered to write me a letter-he seems like a guy that is good with words and has some clout (MD-PhD, OBGYN professor, cutting edge cancer research, etc).

Check your PM 😀

 

[Jimmy Choo]

A lot of people in this thread are just talking out of their asses.

No matter how much people like to pretend, the two biggest factors of admissions are GPA and DAT. You can't do much about the former anymore, but your potential is unlimited for the latter. Why are you neglecting the main part of application in hopes that improving the little stupid things will somehow offset it?

 

[Jake8]

Stats are fine but if you feel you can do better on the DAT then go for it. Biggest error I see in your application in the late submission. Redo your personal statement get good letters and get that app in early then you should be fine.

PS don't count out NYU, if you got an interview then you have a very good shot at getting in. Keep Dr. Mejia updated and things might fall in your favor.

 

[bjhath]

A lot of people in this thread are just talking out of their asses.

Why do you harbor so much hostility towards others on this forum? Please read the forum etiquette guidelines, especially points 10 and 11.

My ultimate question is whether you think the things I have done since I last applied (raise GPA, received degree, taken more upper level courses, more research, more shadowing) as well as getting my application submited in early June will be enough to offset not retaking the DAT?

Your stats look great overall, but portions of your DAT need improvement. Many schools have cutoffs for DAT scores (typically 17) and your 15 in QR may be holding you back. Research the schools in which you are primarily interested (call admissions/visit websites) to see if they have cutoffs. If necessary, retake the DAT. Your scores are good, but can be improved, especially PAT and QR. I am sure you can improve all areas with additional studying. The key to improving both PAT and QR is practice, practice, practice. I improved my PAT from 19 to 28 with a little bit of luck and a whole lot of practice.

I would also suggest having your personal statement reviewed by someone whose judgment you trust and ask them for constructive criticism. English professors, admissions members, current dental students, dentists, or other professionals are good places to start. See if your campus has any workshops or student services where you can have your application and PS reviewed. Rewrite it if necessary.

Other posters made great suggestions: apply early, practice your interview techniques, and keep on working to improve your application (shadowing, volunteering, leadership).

Good luck!

 

[bucknut2009]

Why do you harbor so much hostility towards others on this forum? Please read the forum etiquette guidelines, especially points 10 and 11.


Your stats look great overall, but portions of your DAT need improvement. Many schools have cutoffs for DAT scores (typically 17) and your 15 in QR may be holding you back. Research the schools in which you are primarily interested (call admissions/visit websites) to see if they have cutoffs. If necessary, retake the DAT. Your scores are good, but can be improved, especially PAT and QR. I am sure you can improve all areas with additional studying. The key to improving both PAT and QR is practice, practice, practice. I improved my PAT from 19 to 28 with a little bit of luck and a whole lot of practice.

I would also suggest having your personal statement reviewed by someone whose judgment you trust and ask them for constructive criticism. English professors, admissions members, current dental students, dentists, or other professionals are good places to start. See if your campus has any workshops or student services where you can have your application and PS reviewed. Rewrite it if necessary.

Other posters made great suggestions: apply early, practice your interview techniques, and keep on working to improve your application (shadowing, volunteering, leadership).

Good luck!

Thank you for the feedback. It really is tough figuring out what to do from here. The lazy part of me wants to forego the DAT retake but I understand that it could be a big boost for my app especially if I can improve my scores. The PS review is something I am going to make sure I spend a lot of time on. I have an English professor who teaches an excellent course on rhetoric that will probably be able to help me out. It is clear how much of a help SDN can be. I just wish I would have taken advantage of all that SDN offers much earlier in my pursuit. At any rate, thank you for getting back with me as I really do appreciate the quality advice.

 

[bucknut2009]

A lot of people in this thread are just talking out of their asses.

No matter how much people like to pretend, the two biggest factors of admissions are GPA and DAT. You can't do much about the former anymore, but your potential is unlimited for the latter. Why are you neglecting the main part of application in hopes that improving the little stupid things will somehow offset it?

Hi Jimmy,
I do not consider GPA to be stupid but rather something I think is really working in my favor. I do not know how much schools look at an increase in scores accompanied by an increase in course difficultly, but it is something that I am proud of and something that I hope is working in my favor at least at some schools. At the end of the day, I know the DAT is important but I am trying to evaluate the risk/reward here as I do not want a bad score on a future DAT test to erase what I consider a decent accomplishment in my AA and TS. I guess that is why I have asked this forum for their thoughts. I understand where you are coming from in conveying to me the need to retake the DAT and it is something that I am considering. Thank you for getting back with me as any advice I can get from all of you is helpful. I am trying to figure out something that not even the admissions advisor at OSU has been much of a help with. I pretty much received the response that "if you can improve then retake but if not you may be fine based on your other accomplishments".

 

[bucknut2009]

Why do you harbor so much hostility towards others on this forum? Please read the forum etiquette guidelines, especially points 10 and 11.


Your stats look great overall, but portions of your DAT need improvement. Many schools have cutoffs for DAT scores (typically 17) and your 15 in QR may be holding you back. Research the schools in which you are primarily interested (call admissions/visit websites) to see if they have cutoffs. If necessary, retake the DAT. Your scores are good, but can be improved, especially PAT and QR. I am sure you can improve all areas with additional studying. The key to improving both PAT and QR is practice, practice, practice. I improved my PAT from 19 to 28 with a little bit of luck and a whole lot of practice.

I would also suggest having your personal statement reviewed by someone whose judgment you trust and ask them for constructive criticism. English professors, admissions members, current dental students, dentists, or other professionals are good places to start. See if your campus has any workshops or student services where you can have your application and PS reviewed. Rewrite it if necessary.

Other posters made great suggestions: apply early, practice your interview techniques, and keep on working to improve your application (shadowing, volunteering, leadership).

Good luck!

By the way, congrats on your acceptance! Those DAT scores are killer.

 

[bjhath]

By the way, congrats on your acceptance! Those DAT scores are killer.

Thanks. I planted my butt in a chair for 6-8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, for 8 weeks while studying for the DAT. If you do the same, you will get similar or better scores. Some hard work and sacrifice now will pay off in the long run.

You will get accepted. You've got a great attitude and are asking the right questions. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[adizzle87]

A lot of people in this thread are just talking out of their asses.

No matter how much people like to pretend, the two biggest factors of admissions are GPA and DAT. You can't do much about the former anymore, but your potential is unlimited for the latter. Why are you neglecting the main part of application in hopes that improving the little stupid things will somehow offset it?

I do agree with her intended message....that is bringing your QR and PAT will most likely make you a much better candidate for schools for the upcoming cycle. Of course she should seriously learn to change her attitude about this forum. There is no reason to hate on people, if you don't like the way the forum is then you can save yourself the frustration of coming here and instead just start getting ready for dental school.

 

[Black Teeth]

A lot of people in this thread are just talking out of their asses.

No matter how much people like to pretend, the two biggest factors of admissions are GPA and DAT. You can't do much about the former anymore, but your potential is unlimited for the latter. Why are you neglecting the main part of application in hopes that improving the little stupid things will somehow offset it?

In a general sense, I would agree but we are not dealing with generalities because we have his stats. The OP had 2 interviews at NYU and Maryland which means he had 2 opportunities to get accepted into dental school. He was one good interview away from being accepted! And if he doesn't get accepted, then we know 100% for certain that his interview skills are a problem. At least for those 2 schools, you can't blame it on his stats because if that were the case, he would have never been offered those interviews in the first place. For those 2 dental school, he made it past the GPA and DAT cutoff. Would higher stats help him? Absolutely. It will get him more interviews but a higher GPA and DAT is not going to help him answer tough interview questions once he's at those interviews. What good will improving the DAT do if he doesn't also address the possible weakness in the interview phase? He needs to improve both areas or else he'll never make it pass the interview stage to recieve the acceptance. You gotta address both aspects of the application process: main application (DAT, GPA, etc) and the interview. To completely ignore the interview stage would be a serious mistake. There is a reason why the 2nd half of the application process is dedicated entirely to the interview process and why all schools require it. As I stated previously, I agree that a good GPA and DAT scores are big factors in the admissions process because they can help you get interviews. That's a no-brainer. But you don't need a lot of interviews to get accepted into dental school. A strong interviewer only needs to have one good interview to get accepted into dental school. Like I said earlier, even though he only had 2 interviews, the OP was one good interview away from being accepted. Unfortunately, having only a higher GPA and DAT is still far from getting accepted. I can screen through predents.com and find several applicants whose high stats have gotten them several interviews, including at big name schools, but are still waiting for their first acceptance. The fact that these applicants exist clearly supports the idea that the interview is just as important as the GPA and DAT scores. I am absolutely 100% certain that every adcomm person across the country would agree with me on that. That too should be pretty obvious. You'll find that to be true when you apply to ortho or any other specialty as well. Try telling that to the hundreds of specialty applicants every year who had stats good enough to get interviews but didn't interview well enough to match to a program. And yes, similar to this year, some of those applicants who don't match will be from Harvard too! One of them applied to pedo with me this year and didn't get accepted anywhere and will be doing a GPR despite having stellar stats.

 

[Black Teeth]

Thank you for the response. Yea, I definityly see where you are coming from on the interview improvement. I'm actually glad to have had an interview as I think next time I will feel much more comforable and confident. Those were probably the first real interviews I have ever had and they were each worth the experience. I felt like they went good and I liked the feedback I got from my interviewers, although looking back on it there were a few things I wish I would have said or at least said differently. I haven't given up hope on those schools just yet though . Thanks again for your advice.

I'd like to apologize to the OP. I know it's tough to put your stats out there for everyone to critique. Just keep in mind that we're just trying to give you constructive criticism. Criticism in itself is never pretty but we're tryin to make it constructive so that you can benefit from it.

 

[bucknut2009]

I'd like to apologize to the OP. I know it's tough to put your stats out there for everyone to critique. Just keep in mind that we're just trying to give you constructive criticism. Criticism in itself is never pretty but we're tryin to make it constructive so that you can benefit from it.

This is why I put them out there and posted this message so that I could here things like this from all of you. I can't imagine having to go through the whole process from really getting interested in dentistry to figuring out exactly what to do to get into dental school without the wealth of knowledge and experiences people here on SDN bring to the table. This is exactly what I was looking for and I appreciate everyone getting back with me.