Where would you apply if you were me?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

uclaDDS101

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
500
Reaction score
1
Hi,
With the next application cycle soon approaching, I thought it would be appropriate to start seriously thinking about prospective schools. I've gotten some advice from people and made a preliminary list. I don't want to apply to too many schools because a large list would be difficult to manage, not to mention expensive. I also want to find out what "safety schools" (I know there's no such thing.. but still) to include on the list.

I have a 3.97 gpa and 4.04 sci gpa. My dat is 27/30/25. I have decent ECs, good dental experience, and marginal research experience. I'm a CA resident.
NOTE: I realize that my stats are above average. Thus, I'm not asking what my chances are. I just need some help figuring out where to apply. I have a history of being put down on this site when I ask for help... So if you can provide any positive insight, I really would appreciate it. Thanks so much.

My tentative list:
  1. UCLA
  2. UCSF
  3. UoP
  4. Harvard
  5. Columbia
  6. UPenn
  7. UWashington
  8. USC
  9. NYU
  10. Oregon
  11. UNC
  12. Baylor
  13. San Antonio

I'm still questioning (due to lack of knowledge) schools like Michigan, Case, Nova, Stony Brook, UIC, UNLV, Loma Linda, Pittsburgh, among others. If anyone has insight on any of the aforemetioned programs, feel free to share. Thanks.
 
Man, you realize that you can only go to one dental school at a time, right?

What exactly is your point? Just apply to every single dental school and hang the acceptances on the wall.

Nobody should respond to this.
 
Correct me if I am wrong........but I don't believe Texas schools accept out of state. Now if they do accept a small percentage; then you, if anybody, definitely has a shot at it.

Also if I were you I would save money and only apply to a handful (5 or 6) that I know I want to attend. Good luck....
 
Man, you realize that you can only go to one dental school at a time, right?

What exactly is your point? Just apply to every single dental school and hang the acceptances on the wall.

Nobody should respond to this.

He/she was pretty sincere in his/her approach to asking and even prodigies look for advice.
 
how the F do you have over a 4.0?? I'm so tired of these crap universities giving out inflated GPA's. Any reputable university does not give over a 4.0, no matter how well you do.
 
how the F do you have over a 4.0?? I'm so tired of these crap universities giving out inflated GPA's. Any reputable university does not give over a 4.0, no matter how well you do.

OP goes to UCLA, a world renowned university. Very reputable.
 
Hahaha. Dude, what do you want people to say. You have a good chance everywhere, so it basically depends on what you want. We don't know who you are or where you want to live or what sort of environment you want or what sort of students you work well with, etc, etc. For an applicant with stats like you, it all depends on which school YOU personally like best.

I suggest researching schools online and on these forums and not applying to that many-- you will save a lot of money that way.
 
Man, you realize that you can only go to one dental school at a time, right?

What exactly is your point? Just apply to every single dental school and hang the acceptances on the wall.

Nobody should respond to this.
DONT be OBNOXIOUS buddy, ucladds is just asking for some ADVICE
so 1. if you dont have anything nice to say, dnt post anything
2. dont be jealous if you are, obv he worked really hard for his stats


ucladds:
i think you would get into stony w those stats, you would DEF get an interview ((even though ur OOS), a friend of mine got in and he was OOS and i think he had lower stats

how about UMDNJ??
 
how the F do you have over a 4.0?? I'm so tired of these crap universities giving out inflated GPA's. Any reputable university does not give over a 4.0, no matter how well you do.
UCLA is crap? I'm assuming you didn't know what university the OP went to, or maybe I'm wrong and the side of your yacht reads " Go IVY or Go home."
 
UCLA is crap? I'm assuming you didn't know what university the OP went to, or maybe I'm wrong and the side of your yacht reads " Go IVY or Go home."

Just tell me how you can get over a 4.0.
 
OP,

You should talk to students (UCB05 etc) similar to your situation (High GPAs and/or/23AA+) to see how they are forming their lists.

First off, they are less likely to make snyde remarks lol, and second I'm sure there's different issues to think about in your situation (scholarships etc).

Texas schools are selective with OOS applicants but they do accept students, especially with stellar stats. With your situation I would imagine more emphasis can be put on personal preference than the usual applicant.

In terms of safety schools, I suppose it would be your state school(s)?
 
Why do you even bother? With those stats, you will get interviews anywhere. Just pick 5 of your favorite schools. This way you will save money, save your time, and the adcom's time at those other schools.
 
Man, you realize that you can only go to one dental school at a time, right?

What exactly is your point? Just apply to every single dental school and hang the acceptances on the wall.

Nobody should respond to this.

Maybe you should follow your own advice and stop responding... What's the point if your not trying to help?

Just tell me how you can get over a 4.0.

AADSAS gives you a 4.33 for A+'s.

OP,

You should talk to students (UCB05 etc) similar to your situation (High GPAs and/or/23AA+) to see how they are forming their lists.

First off, they are less likely to make snyde remarks lol, and second I'm sure there's different issues to think about in your situation (scholarships etc).

Texas schools are selective with OOS applicants but they do accept students, especially with stellar stats. With your situation I would imagine more emphasis can be put on personal preference than the usual applicant.

In terms of safety schools, I suppose it would be your state school(s)?

Well, my state schools would technically be UCLA and UCSF, so besides those, I'm not too sure. I'd really like to cut out some schools from my list though. A few of them like USC and NYU I just put in there for 'safety' but I'm not sure if I actually need them.. I'm not trying to attend those really expensive schools.

What schools would you guys, personally, apply to if you were in my position? What are your tops and why?
 
I'm not sure if I actually need them.. I'm not trying to attend those really expensive schools.

Honestly, I would go to where you will get the most money, or where it will end up costing the cheapest. You are in a position to receive a scholarship, so follow that route. It seems most dental students and dentists say the same thing-- they are burdened with debt and picking the cheapest school is the smartest choice.

Just my opinion...
 
Hi,
With the next application cycle soon approaching, I thought it would be appropriate to start seriously thinking about prospective schools. I've gotten some advice from people and made a preliminary list. I don't want to apply to too many schools because a large list would be difficult to manage, not to mention expensive. I also want to find out what "safety schools" (I know there's no such thing.. but still) to include on the list.

I have a 3.97 gpa and 4.04 sci gpa. My dat is 27/30/25. I have decent ECs, good dental experience, and marginal research experience. I'm a CA resident.
NOTE: I realize that my stats are above average. Thus, I'm not asking what my chances are. I just need some help figuring out where to apply. I have a history of being put down on this site when I ask for help... So if you can provide any positive insight, I really would appreciate it. Thanks so much.

My tentative list:
  1. UCLA
  2. UCSF
  3. UoP
  4. Harvard
  5. Columbia
  6. UPenn
  7. UWashington
  8. USC
  9. NYU
  10. Oregon
  11. UNC
  12. Baylor
  13. San Antonio

I'm still questioning (due to lack of knowledge) schools like Michigan, Case, Nova, Stony Brook, UIC, UNLV, Loma Linda, Pittsburgh, among others. If anyone has insight on any of the aforemetioned programs, feel free to share. Thanks.

I would drop NYU and USC, too expensive, after that it's personal preference. I would keep Baylor and SA as they are worth applying to IMO. UNC and Washington seem like great schools. But realistically, are you going to go to one of those schools over the others you will probably get into considering OOS costs?

Are you really going to go to 10-15 interviews?
 
if you want to stay in Cali - ucla, uop, ucsf (saves$$)

if $$ is no object and you want a school that will set u up to specialize, if thats what you want, then -michigan, uconn, harvard, columbia, maryland, tufts

i would forgot all the others on your list - schools with lower mean gpas and dats might even reject you b/c they think you arent taking them seriously
 
Hi,
With the next application cycle soon approaching, I thought it would be appropriate to start seriously thinking about prospective schools. I've gotten some advice from people and made a preliminary list. I don't want to apply to too many schools because a large list would be difficult to manage, not to mention expensive. I also want to find out what "safety schools" (I know there's no such thing.. but still) to include on the list.

I have a 3.97 gpa and 4.04 sci gpa. My dat is 27/30/25. I have decent ECs, good dental experience, and marginal research experience. I'm a CA resident.
NOTE: I realize that my stats are above average. Thus, I'm not asking what my chances are. I just need some help figuring out where to apply. I have a history of being put down on this site when I ask for help... So if you can provide any positive insight, I really would appreciate it. Thanks so much.

My tentative list:
  1. UCLA
  2. UCSF
  3. UoP
  4. Harvard
  5. Columbia
  6. UPenn
  7. UWashington
  8. USC
  9. NYU
  10. Oregon
  11. UNC
  12. Baylor
  13. San Antonio

I'm still questioning (due to lack of knowledge) schools like Michigan, Case, Nova, Stony Brook, UIC, UNLV, Loma Linda, Pittsburgh, among others. If anyone has insight on any of the aforemetioned programs, feel free to share. Thanks.

The OP is sincerely asking for advices and if you can't give any then don't talk crap simply because he got great stats. In my opinion, it really doesn't matter where you apply because these stats will surely give you interviews. If i were you i would practice on my interview and interpersonal communication skills since this is the only thing that could potentially break you. Evaluate schools based on cost, prestige (if that's important to you) if you want to practice in CA after, weather, location, family, and gut instinct when you interview there. If specializing is important to you, I would look into that as well but from what i read on sdn, it does not matter where you go to school. I would apply no more than 12 schools if i were you.
 
I would definitely apply to NYU. You may become one of those fortunate individuals who receive the Dean's Academic Enrichment Scholarship (i.e. full-tuition scholarship). From my class, two of those who are on the full-ride scholarship applied to ortho and they both got into Ivy League ortho residency programs. Good luck!
 
can't offer advice except to follow your heart and what you want lol cause i'm not even near this stage.

just wanted to say wow and congratulations. you obviously worked hard. i hope you get in everywhere you want 🙂
 
OP,

You should talk to students (UCB05 etc) similar to your situation (High GPAs and/or/23AA+) to see how they are forming their lists.

First off, they are less likely to make snyde remarks lol, and second I'm sure there's different issues to think about in your situation (scholarships etc).

Texas schools are selective with OOS applicants but they do accept students, especially with stellar stats. With your situation I would imagine more emphasis can be put on personal preference than the usual applicant.

In terms of safety schools, I suppose it would be your state school(s)?

I agree with this post. If I were you I would trow 1-2K and apply to at least 10 schools. In your situation, your goal should not be about getting acceptance, but to focus on full scholarship. Please do NOT try to save money in applying. What is it to apply to more schools if you were to get full scholarship from one or two.

Talk to your school advisors and other students with similar situation and see what they say and if they know which school has a better history of offering full scholarship.
 
Your list is pretty solid, looks like you have done your research. You're virtually guaranteed in UoP, Columbia, and Penn, and you have a very high chance of getting into UCLA, UCSF, and Harvard as well. Washington, UNC, Baylor, San Antonio, and Oregon are great schools that only accept a few OOS, but the good news is that the OOS that they do accept have scores like yours lol. I'd take out NYU and USC, like someone said before, too expensive and you have better options. Honestly, I wouldn't add any more, I'd just apply to those 11. One school you could consider adding is UConn - they offer a 7-year DDS/PhD with a Full Ride & Stipend, which they would most likely offer you because of your scores, if that sounds appealing to you add UConn as your 12th school. Stony Brook is also a school to consider as well. Good luck!
 
I'm still questioning (due to lack of knowledge) schools like Michigan, Case, Nova, Stony Brook, UIC, UNLV, Loma Linda, Pittsburgh, among others. If anyone has insight on any of the aforemetioned programs, feel free to share. Thanks.

Those are all fine institutions and great schools, but you have better/cheaper options in the schools you're already applying to. And I believe UIC OOS is the most expensive Tuition in the country, even more than NYU and USC 😱
 
haha, you make me feel like chump. get out of here with those scores. no but really, congrats on a job well done....you can probably go wherever you want with those scores. i am sure they'd open up a dental school on the moon for you if you really wanted it.
 
uclaDDS,

Congrats bro. Your numbers are outstanding and if I am not mistaken, I think you are among the top 5 performances I have seen since joining this website.

The reason it may seem that some people give you a hard time should be obvious. If you are able to pull those kinds of numbers, then simple common sense would expect you know exactly where you stand with respect to being an applicant. With that said, there is nothing wrong with asking for some simple opinion at all.

Your numbers mean hard work, and the payoff for your hard work is Freedom... Freedom of Choice. Lets be honest, you will be accepted to all of the schools you apply to.

I say you have the best time with it you possibly can! This is your prize dude!!! Go to the schools, check them out. Check out the people, check out the weather, see the equipment, the labs, scope out the city. Talk to students, see how they like the school. You earned the choice to pick where you want to live and study for the next few years where as others hope to be chosen. That is an opportunity that you should explore to its fullest!!

Surely consider a scholarship, but also consider what you like and what you want from the school that will host the next four years of your life, you know. Im sure you will make a good choice.

Best of luck.
 
I wouldn't leave out UW. We have around 8 or so out of state people out of 55, and they're not Ivy's. UW has great research opportunities, Seattle is a great place to live, and UW is considered by many in the dental community to be one of the best instructional schools around (displayed by the high board and WREB scores).


But I agree with most people on here that if you can get a scholarship (which you should, then go where it's cheaper). UCSF is also a great school, and with your CA residency and good stats you shouldn't have a problem getting in...
 
Hey,
First off congrats on your scores, and sorry for people putting you down, you have nothing to be ashamed for and should be able to ask questions like the rest of us.

Have you gotten the ADEA guide to dental schools for this year? I found it extremely helpful and made an excel sheet for myself based on my stats, and the OOS chances of the school I want to get into.
If you look up all of the schools and the numbers of OOS students getting in, your choice of schools will be easier.

Good luck!
(and da-yam ur scores are crazy) 😳
 
OK, I'll probably be taking USC off of the list and consider putting on UConn. (It's just soo cold up there, though.) Thanks for the input everyone. I have worked pretty hard the last 3 years, and it is nice to be a little less stressed around this time. Good luck to any of you guys that will be applying as well!

I would definitely apply to NYU. You may become one of those fortunate individuals who receive the Dean's Academic Enrichment Scholarship (i.e. full-tuition scholarship). From my class, two of those who are on the full-ride scholarship applied to ortho and they both got into Ivy League ortho residency programs. Good luck!

I didn't know NYU offered this. Is it solely a merit based scholarship? Or do they consider socioeconomic background as well?

I agree with this post. If I were you I would trow 1-2K and apply to at least 10 schools. In your situation, your goal should not be about getting acceptance, but to focus on full scholarship. Please do NOT try to save money in applying. What is it to apply to more schools if you were to get full scholarship from one or two.

Talk to your school advisors and other students with similar situation and see what they say and if they know which school has a better history of offering full scholarship.

That's another way of looking at it.. I was under the impression the dental schools didn't offer full scholarships. I'll try to ask around. Has anyone else heard of any scholarships?

Your list is pretty solid, looks like you have done your research. You're virtually guaranteed in UoP, Columbia, and Penn, and you have a very high chance of getting into UCLA, UCSF, and Harvard as well. Washington, UNC, Baylor, San Antonio, and Oregon are great schools that only accept a few OOS, but the good news is that the OOS that they do accept have scores like yours lol. I'd take out NYU and USC, like someone said before, too expensive and you have better options. Honestly, I wouldn't add any more, I'd just apply to those 11. One school you could consider adding is UConn - they offer a 7-year DDS/PhD with a Full Ride & Stipend, which they would most likely offer you because of your scores, if that sounds appealing to you add UConn as your 12th school. Stony Brook is also a school to consider as well. Good luck!

Thanks, somethinpositiv. You've been a great help in the past.
 
Hi,
With the next application cycle soon approaching, I thought it would be appropriate to start seriously thinking about prospective schools. I've gotten some advice from people and made a preliminary list. I don't want to apply to too many schools because a large list would be difficult to manage, not to mention expensive. I also want to find out what "safety schools" (I know there's no such thing.. but still) to include on the list.

I have a 3.97 gpa and 4.04 sci gpa. My dat is 27/30/25. I have decent ECs, good dental experience, and marginal research experience. I'm a CA resident.
NOTE: I realize that my stats are above average. Thus, I'm not asking what my chances are. I just need some help figuring out where to apply. I have a history of being put down on this site when I ask for help... So if you can provide any positive insight, I really would appreciate it. Thanks so much.


My tentative list:
  1. UCLA
  2. UCSF
  3. UoP
  4. Harvard
  5. Columbia
  6. UPenn
  7. UWashington
  8. USC
  9. NYU
  10. Oregon
  11. UNC
  12. Baylor
  13. San Antonio
I'm still questioning (due to lack of knowledge) schools like Michigan, Case, Nova, Stony Brook, UIC, UNLV, Loma Linda, Pittsburgh, among others. If anyone has insight on any of the aforemetioned programs, feel free to share. Thanks.

What about Maryland? I have heard that they provide full scholarships and accepts 60+ OOS every year. Call the admissions office, they are pretty upfront with applicants.
 
I'm curious to see how you'd fare at canadian universities. Give McGill a go and see what happens.
 
I didn't know NYU offered this. Is it solely a merit based scholarship? Or do they consider socioeconomic background as well?
It is solely a merit scholarship. The scholarship is also known as the "Dean's Merit Scholarship." You can find some background info about this award on NYUCD's website:

"The award recognizes...Dean Kaufman's...initiatives to promote academic excellence at the NYU College of Dentistry. These include...the Dean's Merit Scholarships, created in 1988 to provide incentives for high academic achievers to make the NYU College of Dentistry their dental school of choice."
http://www.nyu.edu/dental/oku/awards.html
 
how the F do you have over a 4.0?? I'm so tired of these crap universities giving out inflated GPA's. Any reputable university does not give over a 4.0, no matter how well you do.

DUDE SHUTTUP SERIOUSLY..why dont U COME to ucla and see whether it is grade inflated..it obviously IS NOT..i know that ucladds had to have had the same general chem prof as I did..and let me tell u that guy is the complete OPPOSITE OF GRADE INFLATION...we here at ucla have to put up with crappy profs, extremely difficult CLASSES..and we are on our own with no help...PLUS WE HAVE A QUARTER SYSTEM WHICH IS VERY STRESSFUL...If u were here I'm sure you would have a 2.0 gpa
 
DUDE SHUTTUP SERIOUSLY..why dont U COME to ucla and see whether it is grade inflated..it obviously IS NOT..i know that ucladds had to have had the same general chem prof as I did..and let me tell u that guy is the complete OPPOSITE OF GRADE INFLATION...we here at ucla have to put up with crappy profs, extremely difficult CLASSES..and we are on our own with no help...PLUS WE HAVE A QUARTER SYSTEM WHICH IS VERY STRESSFUL...If u were here I'm sure you would have a 2.0 gpa
Haha i second this. ucla is by no means a "crap" universities.
 
DUDE SHUTTUP SERIOUSLY..why dont U COME to ucla and see whether it is grade inflated..it obviously IS NOT..i know that ucladds had to have had the same general chem prof as I did..and let me tell u that guy is the complete OPPOSITE OF GRADE INFLATION...we here at ucla have to put up with crappy profs, extremely difficult CLASSES..and we are on our own with no help...PLUS WE HAVE A QUARTER SYSTEM WHICH IS VERY STRESSFUL...If u were here I'm sure you would have a 2.0 gpa

Do they offer English courses at UCLA?
 
DUDE SHUTTUP SERIOUSLY..why dont U COME to ucla and see whether it is grade inflated..it obviously IS NOT..i know that ucladds had to have had the same general chem prof* as I did..and let me tell u that guy is the complete OPPOSITE OF GRADE INFLATION...we here at ucla have to put up with crappy profs, extremely difficult CLASSES..and we are on our own with no help...PLUS WE HAVE A QUARTER SYSTEM WHICH IS VERY STRESSFUL...If u were here I'm sure you would have a 2.0 gpa

No need to get defensive. I'm sure there was just a misunderstanding on her part.

*BTW, are you referring to Dr. Pang??
 
I've been here for a while and ucladds is a good kid. Just apply to your top 5 school you will get in for sure. IMO, dont waste extra money on other schools.

2c:luck:
 
Michigan is a GREAT school. I know a couple of people who go there/recently graduated from their dental school, and they loved it.
Minus the fact that Michigan has crazy weather sometimes, I'd definitely put that school on my list and look into it seriously if I were you. It's my number one choice, btw.
and congrats on your amazing scores. =)
 
I think you should just find 5 schools that you like and apply; I'm pretty sure you will get in wherever.

Also, I think it seems unfair that some schools even designate A+s and some don't. I would have at least 4 A+'s but my school doesn't give them out (even though we do the other +/-s) so it seems unfair that AADSAS would count them. I heard AADSAS just converted everything to a regular non-+/- GPA.
 
your list is way too long with your stats. Just apply to your top 7 or top 10 to be safe and go to MOST of the interviews that you will receive. Then pick your schools later on when they accept you. Who knows. Even though you have really high stats, but one of your top 3 schools not might like certain aspect about you and don't interview there. It's a shot in the dark.....but I think you will pretty much get ALL of the interviews to the schools you are applying to. Just relax....
 
I think you should just find 5 schools that you like and apply; I'm pretty sure you will get in wherever.

Also, I think it seems unfair that some schools even designate A+s and some don't. I would have at least 4 A+'s but my school doesn't give them out (even though we do the other +/-s) so it seems unfair that AADSAS would count them. I heard AADSAS just converted everything to a regular non-+/- GPA.

Yeah, a lot of my professors don't give out A+'s either, so it does add an inconsistent component to gpa calculation. You're right; I think they calculate gpa both with and without +/-
 
Given your stats

you should limit the schools down. Why hand the schools money unless you really want to.

Then decide where do you want to live. Close to UCLA where I assume you are now. UCSF/UOP if you're in Nor Cal.

If it was me I'd pick what is closer to home/family.

Then cost. If that still doesn't help narrow things down, add the likely hotness of female/male classmates. You're gonna spend 3-4 years with these people you want to have some nice people to look at. :laugh:
 
I would stick with UCSF for many reasons.

1. It's one of the best dental schools with relatively low tuition
2. Their research opportunities are immense, and their facilities/faculty are top-notch
3. Their graduates consistently earn top residency spots in some of the best hospitals in the country, like those affiliated with Harvard.

It's the total package. And considering your statistics, UCSF is well within your target range of schools. Congratulations by the way on your excellent grades/DAT scores.
 
I agree with the several users who recommend applying to schools that will give you a scholarship (hopefully a full-ride in your situation). Although you will be wasting several thousand by applying to more schools, that money won't go to waste if you get accepted with a full ride scholarship. In the mean time, buy a nice suit for your interview, stay humble, and get ready to pack your bags because I'm sure you'll be traveling a lot once the application date opens. Best of luck and great stats!
 
Check with Shinpe (2014) and calguitar (2013-Harvard). UC grads with great GPAs and they rocked the DATs too. Best of Luck.
 
Hi,
With the next application cycle soon approaching, I thought it would be appropriate to start seriously thinking about prospective schools. I've gotten some advice from people and made a preliminary list. I don't want to apply to too many schools because a large list would be difficult to manage, not to mention expensive. I also want to find out what "safety schools" (I know there's no such thing.. but still) to include on the list.

I have a 3.97 gpa and 4.04 sci gpa. My dat is 27/30/25. I have decent ECs, good dental experience, and marginal research experience. I'm a CA resident.
NOTE: I realize that my stats are above average. Thus, I'm not asking what my chances are. I just need some help figuring out where to apply. I have a history of being put down on this site when I ask for help... So if you can provide any positive insight, I really would appreciate it. Thanks so much.

My tentative list:
  1. UCLA
  2. UCSF
  3. UoP
  4. Harvard
  5. Columbia
  6. UPenn
  7. UWashington
  8. USC
  9. NYU
  10. Oregon
  11. UNC
  12. Baylor
  13. San Antonio

I'm still questioning (due to lack of knowledge) schools like Michigan, Case, Nova, Stony Brook, UIC, UNLV, Loma Linda, Pittsburgh, among others. If anyone has insight on any of the aforemetioned programs, feel free to share. Thanks.

I agree with other SDNers. 13 schools are a lot for you. Since your GPA and DAT are way above average. I think that apply less school to save money (because you will spend tons in DS). According to your list I advise to eliminate UNC, Baylor and San Antonio. For alternative questioning I can strongly recommend you to think about Michigan. Michigan is a great research school like UCs. If you like to do research, you may put in your list. Good luck.
 
Hi UCLADDS101,

You have an exceptional package to sell yourself to anywhere. So why don't you think of the location(s) of the DS and strength/weakness of the program? Are you interested in some combined degree program etc.?

Someone said it on the forum that it's a waste of money/time to apply to somewhere that later you are reluctant to go. I can't agree more with that. So just pick those schools/locations that you are fond to go....
 
Top