Which Loan to Make Extra Payments On?

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Shimmy8

Shimmy8

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Recently purchased a home together with my girlfriend, financed a used car (mine electronically crapped out), and have been working on my student loans.

Emergency funds: now built up to $50k over the last few months. Monthly expenses about $10k with loan commitments.

Tax Filing Status: Single

Tax Rate: 35% Federal, No State Income Tax

Debt:
- Home: 30 year loan structured as 510k at 3.375%, HELOC on rest 308k at 4%. Home value 950k.

- Car: 2018 Tahoe 44k @ 4.9%, 60 month loan.

- Student Loans: Just refinanced with PenFed at *variable* 2.1% on 229k left.

I'll be filing taxes this year as single, we'll likely be engaged by the end of the year.

401k is maxed out, backdoor Roth is funded, HSA is funded. My employer contributes pretty close to the max 53k each year so no mega backdoor option. Trying to work my way through which of these to pay off early. I'm not going to deplete my emergency funds, but make enough to where I can use most of that on some large lump sum payments.

There's obviously some tax implications for the home with interest credits, but there's the low hanging fruit of just paying off the car and also getting as much down on that variable student loan rate as possible. Thoughts?
 
I’d focus on the car and the HELOC - or refi the HELOC into your primary mortgage. I wouldn’t worry to much about the variable student loans, as with the current economic climate I don’t think rates are gonna rise anytime soon.

Most importantly though - ditch the GF. Girlfriends are the path to the dark side. Girlfriends lead to wives. Wives lead to children. Children lead to suffering.
 
Dave Ramsey would say pay off smallest loan first (debt snowball method). A lot of others would say pay off highest interest rates first. Either way, winner would be paying off the Tahoe as it has both the highest interest rate and is your smallest debt obligation.
 
Shimmy8 said:
- Car: 2018 Tahoe 44k @ 4.9%, 60 month loan.
Click to expand...

Hopefully your group is savvy enough to allow you to depreciate your car through the practice. Depreciation limits on SUVs under Trump tax law are amaaaaaaazing.
 
Shimmy8 said:
Recently purchased a home together with my girlfriend, financed a used car (mine electronically crapped out), and have been working on my student loans.

Emergency funds: now built up to $50k over the last few months. Monthly expenses about $10k with loan commitments.

Tax Filing Status: Single

Tax Rate: 35% Federal, No State Income Tax

Debt:
- Home: 30 year loan structured as 510k at 3.375%, HELOC on rest 308k at 4%. Home value 950k.

- Car: 2018 Tahoe 44k @ 4.9%, 60 month loan.

- Student Loans: Just refinanced with PenFed at *variable* 2.1% on 229k left.

I'll be filing taxes this year as single, we'll likely be engaged by the end of the year.

401k is maxed out, backdoor Roth is funded, HSA is funded. My employer contributes pretty close to the max 53k each year so no mega backdoor option. Trying to work my way through which of these to pay off early. I'm not going to deplete my emergency funds, but make enough to where I can use most of that on some large lump sum payments.

There's obviously some tax implications for the home with interest credits, but there's the low hanging fruit of just paying off the car and also getting as much down on that variable student loan rate as possible. Thoughts?
Click to expand...


I think you are doing a good job. The home was on the expensive side considering all your debt but you will be able to afford it easier as the time goes on.

Are you prepared for tax increases in 2021? A Biden victory will almost certainly mean a substantial tax increase for you. Unless you are getting a large business deduction for the Tahoe focus on paying off this vehicle first. The other debt can wait as you build up more savings and investments. The next big chunk to pay off/down is the HELOC so you can consider refinancing the entire house into a fixed 15 year mortgage.
 
  • It’s harder to qualify for a “jumbo” loan because lenders generally can’t sell them in the secondary market and therefore must retain the risk.
  • Consumers are likely to encounter stricter credit score requirements than they would have at the start of 2020, as well as a larger minimum down payment and higher cash reserves.
  • In comparison to the market for so-called conforming loans, you might find more of an interest rate difference among various lenders, so it pays to shop around for the best terms.

 
Appreciate the input, and I agree with most. Likely paying off the Tahoe in the next few months. Just trying to think it through.

chocomorsel said:
You seriously bought almost a million dollar house with >$200K left in debt and added a $44k car!

Oh well.

Live it up!!! With the Covid, many of us will be debt free sooner rather than later. Life is short.

Maybe I need to learn to live it up and live in debt as well.
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Yup! Ha!

I live in a desirable city with significant tourism appeal, and my current home was an AirBNB that went on the market due to COVID. I got a great deal (IMO), and it has a detached above garage studio apt a good friend of mine rents. So my mortgage on this home is essentially the same as our previous home with the rental income. And I have my AirBNB permit for the new place already if he wants to move out or we decide to make it a full time short term rental once all this craziness is over.

Gf moved in from her home and now rents her old place to long term renters. So we’re in an ok spot, despite the debt, but want to be smart about the approach.

BLADEMDA said:
  • It’s harder to qualify for a “jumbo” loan because lenders generally can’t sell them in the secondary market and therefore must retain the risk.
  • Consumers are likely to encounter stricter credit score requirements than they would have at the start of 2020, as well as a larger minimum down payment and higher cash reserves.
  • In comparison to the market for so-called conforming loans, you might find more of an interest rate difference among various lenders, so it pays to shop around for the best terms.

Click to expand...

Correct. The jumbo in this environment for me, even with 830ish credit score, was not available through this lender. The combo traditional/HELOC with only needing 10% down was much more appealing than anything else when I shopped around.

SaltyDog said:
Hopefully your group is savvy enough to allow you to depreciate your car through the practice. Depreciation limits on SUVs under Trump tax law are amaaaaaaazing.
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Unfortunately, no. I'm just a lowly AMC employee. No true PP.

SaltyDog said:
Most importantly though - ditch the GF. Girlfriends are the path to the dark side. Girlfriends lead to wives. Wives lead to children. Children lead to suffering.
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I’m too attached to her dogs. Can’t get rid of her just yet.
 
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If it were me:

1. Save up to 6mo expenses into your Emergency Fund. If you can get into the 12 month range, you'll have considerable peace of mind.
1a. Might be worth an honest chat about your future life partner's expectations for the wedding and honeymoon. The expenses for those two events can easily make the Tahoe cost look like a quick grocery pickup at Aldi. DON'T TURN DOWN the offer of her dad/family to pay if they offer. And you already know her tastes: if she wants 500 guests (assuming our species survives The Corona) at the "it place" with 14 days with a personal butler in Bora Bora, you'd be wise to start saving for that now.
2. Pay off that tank of an SUV. If you're making anywhere in neighborhood of $400k, this could be done within a few months I'd bet.
3. I'd throw the SUV money that you were paying into overpaying the principal on the property debt each month.
3a. You bought the home with (i.e.: she's on the mortgage too) your GF, right? I'd tactfully be sure that she's paying into that as well. Because she's gonna get part of it in the (unlikely) event that things go sideways.
4. Tackle student loans last.
5. If paid q2 weeks, I'd take one of those few 3-paycheck-months in which you have extra cash at hand and spread it around into those payments.

I too reiterate, without any pretense, that life is short - enjoy it.
 
bigdan said:
Might be worth an honest chat about your future life partner's expectations for the wedding and honeymoon. The expenses for those two events can easily make the Tahoe cost look like a quick grocery pickup at Aldi. DON'T TURN DOWN the offer of her dad/family to pay if they offer. And you already know her tastes: if she wants 500 guests (assuming our species survives The Corona) at the "it place" with 14 days with a personal butler in Bora Bora, you'd be wise to start saving for that now.
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I've seen coworkers spend absurd amounts of money on weddings and honeymoons with the explanation that they "had to".

Hell I want to marry a woman that'd want to elope or marry in the woods/beach for free. But I realize that's not common. You have a perfect out with COVID - just get married on Zoom for free and have everyone send you a gift. Win/Win!

On the upside you have a good income and good retirement habits. On the downside you're taking on bigger and bigger forms of debt with no signs of stopping. Stop it!!! If you get laid off you'll go bankrupt quick - you have an OK emergency fund but once you pay for the loans on wedding, honeymoon, car, house, student debt, kids, and your impending next toys (and your wife's toys?) you'll get crushed. You're already house-poor right now. You'll go bankrupt in about four months. Stop accumulating debt!!!

Whether it's the Dave Ramsey snowball method or a more calculated method figuring out which loans "cost" more, it probably doesn't matter much because all of your interest rates are decently low and it's small potatoes in the grand scheme of your debt-load. I'd probably tackle the car first then the student debt next. Then you're mentally paid off from two things. The HELOC and house are next and that will just go on forever - plus at least if you go bankrupt you can escape it in some way (the student loans will never go away, and the car would be repossessed).

Good on you to be in a zero income tax state, and good job to save all of that for retirement. Also good you have rental income attached to your property. Very good.

Stop taking on debt.

PS get a prenup. You're a setup for ruin if you get divorced.
 
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kidthor said:
the student loans will never go away
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Are you sure about that? If you consolidate/refi your federal student loans with a private bank, is it then just a personal loan, or do the federal student loan rules still apply??? I really don’t know.
 
SaltyDog said:
Are you sure about that? If you consolidate/refi your federal student loans with a private bank, is it then just a personal loan, or do the federal student loan rules still apply??? I really don’t know.
Click to expand...

I think s/he means student loans are not discharged in bankruptcy
Edit: even if they are consolidated
 
Shimmy8 said:
Recently purchased a home together with my girlfriend, financed a used car (mine electronically crapped out), and have been working on my student loans.

Emergency funds: now built up to $50k over the last few months. Monthly expenses about $10k with loan commitments.

Tax Filing Status: Single

Tax Rate: 35% Federal, No State Income Tax

Debt:
- Home: 30 year loan structured as 510k at 3.375%, HELOC on rest 308k at 4%. Home value 950k.

- Car: 2018 Tahoe 44k @ 4.9%, 60 month loan.

- Student Loans: Just refinanced with PenFed at *variable* 2.1% on 229k left.

I'll be filing taxes this year as single, we'll likely be engaged by the end of the year.

401k is maxed out, backdoor Roth is funded, HSA is funded. My employer contributes pretty close to the max 53k each year so no mega backdoor option. Trying to work my way through which of these to pay off early. I'm not going to deplete my emergency funds, but make enough to where I can use most of that on some large lump sum payments.

There's obviously some tax implications for the home with interest credits, but there's the low hanging fruit of just paying off the car and also getting as much down on that variable student loan rate as possible. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Your financial house seems to be in order other than the somewhat bizarre large-car large car loan. Pay that off stat, and also question the process that led you to that particular, unwise financial decision.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Are you prepared for tax increases in 2021? A Biden victory will almost certainly mean a substantial tax increase for you. Unless you are getting a large business deduction for the Tahoe focus on paying off this vehicle first. The other debt can wait as you build up more savings and investments. The next big chunk to pay off/down is the HELOC so you can consider refinancing the entire house into a fixed 15 year mortgage.
Click to expand...

Absurd that you brought politics into this, but, is that how that works? Trump raised my taxes...
 
Get a prenup with no alimony. I’m not even divorced but the idea of alimony gets me riled up! You’ve been paying for the mistake of getting married since your wedding day, then you are supposed to keep paying for years to come?!? F that noise.
 
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Appreciate the input, all. And those that were critical, I understand, and you’re not wrong ha.

There are a few personal matters that are a little nuanced that don’t need to get into detail here, but I appreciate everyone’s insight.

Car loan will be gone next month.

Oh, and Trump raised my taxes too. Single and our tax bracket is pretty much the only bracket that he raised.
 
Why not sell that house, use that 100k equity to cut student loans in half. Use a good chunk of emergency fund to pay off tahoe, and be debt free in 1 year? Why do you need a million dollar house with just you and fiancee?
 
dabears505 said:
Why not sell that house, use that 100k equity to cut student loans in half. Use a good chunk of emergency fund to pay off tahoe, and be debt free in 1 year? Why do you need a million dollar house with just you and fiancee?
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It costs a lot of money to sell a million dollar house.
 
OP, I'm surprised the cult of FIRE over everything hasn't flamed you yet. Maybe that means they are coming back to earth.
 
I truly think FIRE is unsustainable for the vast majority for people, including me.

I think there is balance to this life we’ve chosen. Taking call sucks, but there’s the post call day. We work really hard and put in long, stressful hours. And residency f****** sucked. So I like to enjoy myself. WTF am I gonna do retiring at 45 except spend more money? I’d be bankrupt in 5 years, ha. Can’t go hiking and play golf every day.

I’m 34 and have 250k in my 401k, the debt described above, and I’m having fun in a fun, relatively HCOL city. I understand fully to each his own, but I think some people who are obsessed with retiring early need to find a new job or live life a little more.
 
Shimmy8 said:
I truly think FIRE is unsustainable for the vast majority for people, including me.

I think there is balance to this life we’ve chosen. Taking call sucks, but there’s the post call day. We work really hard and put in long, stressful hours. And residency f****** sucked. So I like to enjoy myself. WTF am I gonna do retiring at 45 except spend more money? I’d be bankrupt in 5 years, ha. Can’t go hiking and play golf every day.

I’m 34 and have 250k in my 401k, the debt described above, and I’m having fun in a fun, relatively HCOL city. I understand fully to each his own, but I think some people who are obsessed with retiring early need to find a new job or live life a little more.
Click to expand...

I’ve already reached financial independence but have no plans on retiring. So, I agree with your post. I do think you can achieve part time or 1/2 Time status easily by your mid to late 50s. This will allow you to take a lot of vacations and play a lot of golf. By 65 you will be able to completely retire.

I see no problem with your long term plan.
 
Neopolymath said:
OP, I'm surprised the cult of FIRE over everything hasn't flamed you yet. Maybe that means they are coming back to earth.
Click to expand...

FIRE means you are able to live modestly on a low income or you hit it big in the market with a tech stock. Withdrawal rates need to be 2-2.5 percent to make sure you don’t run out of money. I don’t advocate FIRE in our field because you need to stay current and active to some degree. So, a better alternative is Locums for 10-20 weeks per year or part time work for a large group.
 
This study demonstrates that the 4% rule is no longer a safe or effective way for retirees to plan for retirement income.

www.cnbc.com

Op-Ed: With today's market volatility, the '4% rule' creates risk for America's retirees

While some of the underlying thinking behind the so-called 4% rule was prudent, it was hatched in an era in which interest rates were much higher, capital markets less volatile and, most important, Americans had shorter lifespans. Given today's market volatility and changed retirement landscape...
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
 
1st thing I’d do would be to save a little more money.
Pay the higher interest ones first.
You might be able to get a better rate on your home loan. I recently refi’d a jumbo mortgage at 2.375%. Cost me about one month’s mortgage payment in fees to save $300/mo. Your rate is significantly higher than mine was, though the loan to value ratio is much lower than yours. Still may be worth looking into again.
I’d pay the student loan off last as long as the interest rate remains low because if you were to get permanently disabled or die it will be discharged. Unlikely, but one less thing for you/your estate to deal with, though that may or may not apply to your specific types of loans.
At some point it may be advantageous to continue to maximize your home interest deduction and kill the student loan early.
Alternately stop early payments after the barge is paid off and use the extra money to fund other investment opportunities. Rental property, side business, investment funds, etc.
The HELOC and the barge are what to focus on now.
 
IlDestriero said:
1st thing I’d do would be to save a little more money.
Pay the higher interest ones first.
You might be able to get a better rate on your home loan. I recently refi’d a jumbo mortgage at 2.375%. Cost me about one month’s mortgage payment in fees to save $300/mo. Your rate is significantly higher than mine was, though the loan to value ratio is much lower than yours. Still may be worth looking into again.
I’d pay the student loan off last as long as the interest rate remains low because if you were to get permanently disabled or die it will be discharged. Unlikely, but one less thing for you/your estate to deal with, though that may or may not apply to your specific types of loans.
At some point it may be advantageous to continue to maximize your home interest deduction and kill the student loan early.
Alternately stop early payments after the barge is paid off and use the extra money to fund other investment opportunities. Rental property, side business, investment funds, etc.
The HELOC and the barge are what to focus on now.
Click to expand...

who had that refi rate? I’d refi for that!
 
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Shimmy8 said:
I truly think FIRE is unsustainable for the vast majority for people, including me.

I think there is balance to this life we’ve chosen. Taking call sucks, but there’s the post call day. We work really hard and put in long, stressful hours. And residency f****** sucked. So I like to enjoy myself. WTF am I gonna do retiring at 45 except spend more money? I’d be bankrupt in 5 years, ha. Can’t go hiking and play golf every day.

I’m 34 and have 250k in my 401k, the debt described above, and I’m having fun in a fun, relatively HCOL city. I understand fully to each his own, but I think some people who are obsessed with retiring early need to find a new job or live life a little more.
Click to expand...

dont let some of the posts here bog you down. many physicians are more of the white coat investor types, drive cheaper cars, cheaper house, plan to retire at 55. im like you, i have absolutely no idea what i'd do with myself if i retired early. never had a ton of hobbies, i tend to just waste my time on the internet or playing video games. i need the stimulation of work. do i want to take call my entire life? F no, but ill work per diem as long as i physically can. we have several per diem guys in their late 60s that work 3-4 days a week at 250 per hour. solid money for a 7-3 shift.

i have similar financial obligations to you, though not quite as much on my student loans. But im not concerned at all. when it came time to replace my chevy spark did i buy another one? F no, i bought a tesla model 3 performance edition, and it goes 0-60 in 3 seconds and puts a smile on my face every day. i think we've worked hard enough to indulge ourselves from time to time.
 
buccsmf1 said:
dont let some of the posts here bog you down. many physicians are more of the white coat investor types, drive cheaper cars, cheaper house, plan to retire at 55. im like you, i have absolutely no idea what i'd do with myself if i retired early. never had a ton of hobbies, i tend to just waste my time on the internet or playing video games. i need the stimulation of work. do i want to take call my entire life? F no, but ill work per diem as long as i physically can. we have several per diem guys in their late 60s that work 3-4 days a week at 250 per hour. solid money for a 7-3 shift.

i have similar financial obligations to you, though not quite as much on my student loans. But im not concerned at all. when it came time to replace my chevy spark did i buy another one? F no, i bought a tesla model 3 performance edition, and it goes 0-60 in 3 seconds and puts a smile on my face every day. i think we've worked hard enough to indulge ourselves from time to time.
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Is retiring at 55 considered retiring early? Especially as a high income professional? I am like you in that I spend too much time indoors, but at that age, with money, I sure could travel, spend more time with family, do missionary work when I want, occasionally work for money if I want. But the freedom of not having to go to work, especially on some days when the alarm goes off, is priceless to me.

What age are most anesthesiologists retiring I wonder?
 
 
Most retired anesthesiologists (66.4%) had retired during their 60s, at a mean age of 63.3 (median, 64.0), as did other older physicians; timing of retirement for each age cohort was also similar (Fig. 5). Retirement age has been increasing, from a mean age of 57.4 yr among anesthesiologists who retired before 1985 to 63.9 yr among those who retired in the period 1995–1999 (r = 0.28; P value less than 0.001), after which the mean retirement age remained at 63.9 yr. Women retired earlier than men (mean, 61.2 vs. 63.8; P value less than 0.001).


Anesthesiology

anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org
 
1595205718767.png
 
chocomorsel said:
Is retiring at 55 considered retiring early? Especially as a high income professional? I am like you in that I spend too much time indoors, but at that age, with money, I sure could travel, spend more time with family, do missionary work when I want, occasionally work for money if I want. But the freedom of not having to go to work, especially on some days when the alarm goes off, is priceless to me.

What age are most anesthesiologists retiring I wonder?
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My grandfather was a very successful business man who retired too early (50s) while I was growing up. It was a painful thing to watch. He told me it was his biggest regret in his life (lucky him) and I fully agree with him and learned from it. He has no hobbies besides going on 4 or 5 trips a year. Traveling to resorts for a week or two that many times a year does not entertain you all the other time you are off. It's like exercising. It's a part of a healthy life not a replacement for a personality or real hobbies. He doesn't sail cheap boats locally, work on cars, do woodworking or any kind of hobby you could think of. It's painful.

For me personally, this means that one shouldn't retire early with nothing to do but it also means that if you retire at 45-50 then you are just going to fill your time by spending money anyways. The problem is the reason these people are retiring early isn't because they actually have a lot of money. They have the ability to retire because they live on 40k a year and don't do anything fun. They must really, really hate working in medicine which is a shame. There isn't really a reason to retire early to not do anything otherwise in my opinion.

It seems like the key to a happy career in medicine is to pick a job you actually like and then transition to part time instead of retiring.
 
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Why didn't he find another job? For me 55-60 sounds like a plan. I plan on spending my time learning new things. We shall see. I am not talking about my forties here. But maybe if I ever find a job I really like, I may change my mind. With the way medicine is going in this country, I doubt that will be the case.
Neopolymath said:
My grandfather was a very successful business man who retired too early (50s) while I was growing up. It was a painful thing to watch. He told me it was his biggest regret in his life (lucky him) and I fully agree with him and learned from it. He has no hobbies besides going on 4 or 5 trips a year. Traveling to resorts for a week or two that many times a year does not entertain you all the other time you are off. It's like exercising. It's a part of a healthy life not a replacement for a personality or real hobbies. He doesn't sail cheap boats locally, work on cars, do woodworking or any kind of hobby you could think of. It's painful.

For me personally, this means that one shouldn't retire early with nothing to do but it also means that if you retire at 45-50 then you are just going to fill your time by spending money anyways. The problem is the reason these people are retiring early isn't because they actually have a lot of money. They have the ability to retire because they live on 40k a year and don't do anything fun. They must really, really hate working in medicine which is a shame. There isn't really a reason to retire early to not do anything otherwise in my opinion.

It seems like the key to a happy career in medicine is to pick a job you actually like and then transition to part time instead of retiring.
Click to expand...
 
chocomorsel said:
Why didn't he find another job? For me 55-60 sounds like a plan. I plan on spending my time learning new things. We shall see. I am not talking about my forties here. But maybe if I ever find a job I really like, I may change my mind. With the way medicine is going in this country, I doubt that will be the case.
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He says the reason that he never got another job was that he felt like maybe he just needed a year or two to adjust and then it just never happened. His friends said that happened with them at first and some got depression. They all pulled through with hobbies and patient spouses. My grandfather has neither haha.

So 3 or 4 years into retirement he had been out of work without a way to get back into something easier and less time consuming but still a fit for his former work experience. He felt too old to start a new business venture that he could set on autopilot by the time a normal person retires. I think we are lucky in medicine that we can so easily work part time at the drop of a hat if we really want to.

I don't say this to discourage someone to retire. I just think that people should reflect on what exactly they are retiring for and what they will do. It's said retiring really early is a sign of success so people just assume it's the right thing to do for everyone if given the chance. You say you have plans and I think that's what matters as long as you are happy. I hope you achieve that after working hard!

Coincidentally, I know two surgeons that retired. They hated it and then bought legit ranches to run instead. I always thought that was funny to picture those grouchy asses shoveling horse **** all day.
 
Neopolymath said:
He says the reason that he never got another job was that he felt like maybe he just needed a year or two to adjust and then it just never happened. His friends said that happened with them at first and some got depression. They all pulled through with hobbies and patient spouses. My grandfather has neither haha.

So 3 or 4 years into retirement he had been out of work without a way to get back into something easier and less time consuming but still a fit for his former work experience. He felt too old to start a new business venture that he could set on autopilot by the time a normal person retires. I think we are lucky in medicine that we can so easily work part time at the drop of a hat if we really want to.

I don't say this to discourage someone to retire. I just think that people should reflect on what exactly they are retiring for and what they will do. It's said retiring really early is a sign of success so people just assume it's the right thing to do for everyone if given the chance. You say you have plans and I think that's what matters as long as you are happy. I hope you achieve that after working hard!

Coincidentally, I know two surgeons that retired. They hated it and then bought legit ranches to run instead. I always thought that was funny to picture those grouchy asses shoveling horse **** all day.
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Sounds like your grandfather lived to work and really enjoyed it. I like working as an anesthesiologist but I'd rather do other things outside of work whenever possible. Perhaps that's the difference between many of us and your grandfather.

An upside of anesthesiology is that you can so easily work part time or locums. So retirement from full-time work isn't quite the same as the mechanical engineers or bankers or shop owners. It can be hard for many other professions to work only a bit here and there - but easy for us. Silver lining...
 
Neopolymath said:
It seems like the key to a happy career in medicine is to pick a job you actually like and then transition to part time instead of retiring.
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Completely agree.

Don’t get me wrong, I have lots of hobbies outside the hospital and love to travel. I’ve got really great friends that live in awesome cities across the country: Denver, LA, Boston, Reno, Charleston, Chicago. Love visiting them as much as I can.

And I’d love to get better at golf and travel the country playing cool courses, hike mountains, get better at snow skiing, hit the tables and pools in Vegas, have a boat to cruise oceans and canals, go deep sea fishing. And I work out a lot and have dabbled in some sprint triathlons, etc.

If I hit powerball tomorrow I’d have ZERO problem filling my time and probably would never be bored. But I sure as hell would spend a lot of money. :laugh:
 
chocomorsel said:
Is retiring at 55 considered retiring early? Especially as a high income professional? I am like you in that I spend too much time indoors, but at that age, with money, I sure could travel, spend more time with family, do missionary work when I want, occasionally work for money if I want. But the freedom of not having to go to work, especially on some days when the alarm goes off, is priceless to me.

What age are most anesthesiologists retiring I wonder?
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I sure as hell won't be full time at 55. I'm just off a 24h in-house call that was supremely slow and easy, and I still recoil with horror at the idea of sleeping in a hospital 10 years from now. I'm 45 and realistically about 2 years away from a tolerable level of financial independence (we could live forever without working, but it wouldn't be luxurious) ... I figure by 55 if I'm still working full time and taking a full load of call, it's because I've done something wrong or hostile aliens took their turn after COVID-19.

But I probably won't quit entirely at that age. I just spent a few months deployed overseas, during which time I did zero cases. This is probably the most benign and great reason to not do cases for a while, but even so I'm renewing my credentials at a hospital right now and the case log bit is a bit of a headache. I can readily imagine how tough it'd be after a couple or three YEARS away from practice. I think once you're out for a few years you're not going back - at least not straight into a tolerable job. I guess someone'll hire you to a **** job in a **** place with **** hours and **** pay and **** people alongside you, or a desperate locums agency might place you with a desperate facility. And I guess you could leverage that renewal of recent job history into a better position. But that sounds painful. Better to keep a part-time foot in the door for a while.
 
pgg said:
I sure as hell won't be full time at 55. I'm just off a 24h in-house call that was supremely slow and easy, and I still recoil with horror at the idea of sleeping in a hospital 10 years from now. I'm 45 and realistically about 2 years away from a tolerable level of financial independence (we could live forever without working, but it wouldn't be luxurious) ... I figure by 55 if I'm still working full time and taking a full load of call, it's because I've done something wrong or hostile aliens took their turn after COVID-19.

But I probably won't quit entirely at that age. I just spent a few months deployed overseas, during which time I did zero cases. This is probably the most benign and great reason to not do cases for a while, but even so I'm renewing my credentials at a hospital right now and the case log bit is a bit of a headache. I can readily imagine how tough it'd be after a couple or three YEARS away from practice. I think once you're out for a few years you're not going back - at least not straight into a tolerable job. I guess someone'll hire you to a **** job in a **** place with **** hours and **** pay and **** people alongside you, or a desperate locums agency might place you with a desperate facility. And I guess you could leverage that renewal of recent job history into a better position. But that sounds painful. Better to keep a part-time foot in the door for a while.
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I have an old partner who’s 68 and still working the crazy job I left three years ago. Hours were horrible. It was spine all day every day. Lots of flipping fat people.
And he has one wife (doesn’t work) and one kid. Hasn’t been scared off by Covid to retire. Bet his wife spends all the money.
 
There are a bunch of older physicians at my hospital, many are obviously not well. I can’t understand why they keep working in this environment. If they get covid, their likelihood of death or permanent complications is real. If I were over 60, unwell, and/or fully funded to retire, I’d be long gone. And they can try to sue me in another state, where I’d be taking in the Ocean view with my feet up, for not giving them proper notice.
Pandemic privilege is in effect.
 
IlDestriero said:
There are a bunch of older physicians at my hospital, many are obviously not well. I can’t understand why they keep working in this environment. If they get covid, their likelihood of death or permanent complications is real. If I were over 60, unwell, and/or fully funded to retire, I’d be long gone. And they can try to sue me in another state, where I’d be taking in the Ocean view with my feet up, for not giving them proper notice.
Pandemic privilege is in effect.
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No reason to wait until you’re old and falling apart to move to the beach
 
Once you retire it's very difficult to go back to work. So, there are many out there who prefer to work well past their late 60's. Now, should they be working full time at that age? I can say most Anesthesiologists start to scale back at around 62-66 depending on their financial condition. Those who have spent a lot or gotten a divorce or just like to live high on the hog may need to keep working. A select few are wealthy enough to fully retire. Many choose the intermediate path and work locums or part time so that they keep up their skills but have plenty of time off with reduced call burdens (no call even).

I think a lot of SDN members will be in the intermediate/middle group vs the FIRE group who fully retire before age 55. I think anyone retiring before age 55 is indeed FIRE as most of use don't start earning significant money until around age 30.
 
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