which LORs to send?

[Rbrav]

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I'm currently getting everything set to apply to pathology residencies. I have asked four people for letters of recommendation:

* An internal medicine doctor who said he'd write me a strong letter
* A family practice doc who wrote me a great-to-amazing letter
* Two pathologists who will probably write me good, but not great, letters

Any thoughts on which three of these four I should send? The pathology ones are iffy because I simply couldn't work with them as closely as I could the other docs (because of how my school's surg path rotation works). They said they'd be happy to write me good letters, but they don't know me the way the other two do. Thanks for your thoughts ...

 

[mlw03]

gotta have at least 1 letter from a pathologist - you need someone who is a pathologist who'll say they think you have the aptitude to practice pathology. as as to exact combo, that's tougher. you could make arguments for various combinations, and i dunno which would be better: the IM or FP letter, but i'm guessing the residents on here will say it doesn't matter much, so pick which letter you think would be stronger if you go with the 2 path letters. that's the toughest question i think - 2 average path letters versus 1 path and a strong letter from a primary care doc. if you think the path letters will be overall positive, i'd probably go with that based on what i've been told and what i've read here. non-path letters speak to your intelligence and work ethic, but not about your ability to do pathology, which is so different from any other type of medicine.

 

[--anon--]

Honestly, the letters do not have to say you walk on water, etc... As long as they do NOT say you are a sociopath, you are in! 🙂

 

[Rbrav]

that's the toughest question i think - 2 average path letters versus 1 path and a strong letter from a primary care doc.

Yeah, that was my main question (sorry, shoulda been more clear). I obviously have to send one of the primary care letters (probably the FP one) and one pathology letter, but should the third one be a probably-great IM letter or a probably-good path letter?

 

[Rbrav]

Anyone else?

 

[Fluble]

Can you submit all four? Have you logged into ERAS yet?

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Holy christ. I submitted 4 letters last year (2 pathology, 1 IM, 1 surgery). Submit the best letters that you can. Granted, one of these (at some places two-- so check) are required to be from a pathologist. I knew that I could get strong letters from IM and Surg, so it was a non-issue for me to submit 4, otherwise I would have just submitted 3. Honestly, aside from the one path letter, submit the ones who know you the best, which are usually the ones who have spent the most time with you, and can write you a strong letter of support. If you have a remotely decent Dean's Office they can give you advice on who has submitted letters and which one's are "strong." It doesn't matter what field the non-path letters are in.

 

[yaah]

If you have a remotely decent Dean's Office they can give you advice on who has submitted letters and which one's are "strong." It doesn't matter what field the non-path letters are in.

Agree with that - I think (as I have posted before) that people severely underutilize their dean's offices as well as their advisors or local program directors. I went to my dean on many occasions and also had a couple of pathologists whose brains I picked about application issues.

People always post every year about this "4 letters vs 3" issue, which I don't really get. Apparently some programs will accept four letters (note that this never includes the dean's letter - it is either 3 letters + Deans letter or 4 letters + deans letter). Personally, I just got 3 letters and sent all three to every program I applied to.

The thing is, letters are important, but the marginal utility of each one rapidly decreases. The benefit you are likely to get from an additional (fourth) letter is pretty low if the others are equally as strong (or weak 😉 ). Good reference letters should be from people who know you decently well enough to comment on your motivation, work ethic, intelligence, aptitude for the field and medicine in general, career path/goals, and background. Oftentimes it helps to give them a CV to fill in the blanks that they don't know.

So don't stress too much over it. It is out of your hands once you ask for the letters and they are submitted.

 

[mlw03]

Agree with that - I think (as I have posted before) that people severely underutilize their dean's offices as well as their advisors or local program directors. I went to my dean on many occasions and also had a couple of pathologists whose brains I picked about application issues.

People always post every year about this "4 letters vs 3" issue, which I don't really get. Apparently some programs will accept four letters (note that this never includes the dean's letter - it is either 3 letters + Deans letter or 4 letters + deans letter). Personally, I just got 3 letters and sent all three to every program I applied to.

The thing is, letters are important, but the marginal utility of each one rapidly decreases. The benefit you are likely to get from an additional (fourth) letter is pretty low if the others are equally as strong (or weak 😉 ). Good reference letters should be from people who know you decently well enough to comment on your motivation, work ethic, intelligence, aptitude for the field and medicine in general, career path/goals, and background. Oftentimes it helps to give them a CV to fill in the blanks that they don't know.

So don't stress too much over it. It is out of your hands once you ask for the letters and they are submitted.

that's the problem - getting them to submit our letters by september 1! 😱

thanks darkside and yaah for some good general advice on this topic.

 

[yaah]

that's the problem - getting them to submit our letters by september 1! 😱

thanks darkside and yaah for some good general advice on this topic.

It's probably not going to happen. At least one of them will be sluggish. Maybe they're on vacation, or maybe they forgot. I had one who was very prompt, the other two a little slow. I think in the middle of september I sent additional "thank you letters" which reiterated my appreciation for them writing my letters, and said that now that my application was completed and submitted I was looking forward to the interview season, etc etc.

"Gentle prodding."
In truth, the letters don't need to be in right away. The important parts of your application are your board score and your CV, which get submitted right away anyway. The rest (including the deans letter) will come later. A lot of programs won't wait for all your letters to get in anyway, as long as they are in by the time you actually interview.

 

[mlw03]

anyone know where in this process our transcript gets sent? is that part of our CAF that gets submitted when we submit all our stuff? i'd like programs to see my actual coarse grades sometime before the Nov 1 dean's letter.

 

[yaah]

No, because it has to include parts of your fourth year grades, I think. There is a transcript release date also, I believe. Someone who has done this more recently can correct me.

 

[Fluble]

At my school we each filled out a form requesting to have our transcript sent on whatever date we wanted. Some people waited as they wanted more grades to come in.

 

[Rbrav]

Thanks for the advice, everybody.