Which makes a good 'challenge' secondary topic?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

janinu_zozo

Full Member
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE!

Hi, just trying to determine what sort of topics might work for a challenge-related secondary prompt such as those below:
  • Recount a time when you faced a challenge, setback, or failure. How did it affect you, and what did you learn from the experience?
  • What challenge did you face and how did you overcome it

I have a lot of different ideas for how my response could go. Some are serious, some are a little less serious and unrelated to medicine. Was wondering which ones stick out to you guys.

Redacted
 
Last edited:
In my opinion, these are performative questions where your internal thought process and reflections are the point. The story that you use as a vehicle is more secondary. I think it's easier (both in forms like this and in interview), to first decide what it is that you want to communicate. What is the "moral of the story," so to speak? Start there instead of coming up with 6 plausible situations and trying to mold competencies around them.

I think where things can go sideways here is by trying to find ways to be memorable unnecessarily. This is a written job interview. I can guarantee you that you will be 1/1 in talking about bowhunting and collecting a renegade parrot, but the actual answer to the question is buried and very loosely related. The story drowns out the point, but I can understand that what you're trying to do is sneak in facts about yourself.

Once you have made the point and have offered thought process and reflection, you come to realize that the actual creative storyboarding that you think you need to do for this question is minimal. You don't need a story, you need a premise. A set of circumstances through which you can demonstrate that you have the appropriate self-awareness, reflective capacity, and self-correcting impulses. Looking at it this way helped me move away from feeling like I had to unnecessarily dramatize ordinary conflicts or create a spectacle out of failure in a way that reflects poorly on me as a person.

I also avoid the whole "my weakness is a covert strength" cliche. You do this often: in the first, you were too trusting of the wrong person which creates additional work for you; in the second, you are too perfectionistic; in the third, you are too kind and accommodating, etc. You want to be authentically challenged and show personal and intellectual development, which is inherently vulnerable. In that sense, it's actually OK to look bad. You have to look bad in the past in order to have a contrast with your more prepared, present self.

Another point is that what you choose to emphasize can be different depending on the school. I would tell UCSF a story about political unrest in my government role and how challenging it is to advocate for the infirm at a time in which public institutions are crumbling and the fiduciary relationship between physicians with the public appears to be wearing thin. I would tell a school like Stanford a story about an expensive research mishap that required extraordinary creativity in order to salvage data, which resulted in x, y, z unexpected innovation. Etc, etc, etc.
 
Last edited:
In my opinion, these are performative questions where your internal thought process and reflections are the point. The story that you use as a vehicle is more secondary. I think it's easier (both in forms like this and in interview), to first decide what it is that you want to communicate. What is the "moral of the story," so to speak? Start there instead of coming up with 6 plausible situations and trying to mold competencies around them.

I think where things can go sideways here is by trying to find ways to be memorable unnecessarily. This is a written job interview. I can guarantee you that you will be 1/1 in talking about bowhunting and collecting a renegade parrot, but the actual answer to the question is buried and very loosely related. The story drowns out the point, but I can understand that what you're trying to do is sneak in facts about yourself.

Once you have made the point and have offered thought process and reflection, you come to realize that the actual creative storyboarding that you think you need to do for this question is minimal. You don't need a story, you need a premise. A set of circumstances through which you can demonstrate that you have the appropriate self-awareness, reflective capacity, and self-correcting impulses. Looking at it this way helped me move away from feeling like I had to unnecessarily dramatize ordinary conflicts or create a spectacle out of failure in a way that reflects poorly on me as a person.

I also avoid the whole "my weakness is a covert strength" cliche. You do this often: in the first, you were too trusting of the wrong person which creates additional work for you; in the second, you are too perfectionistic; in the third, you are too kind and accommodating, etc. You want to be authentically challenged and show personal and intellectual development, which is inherently vulnerable. In that sense, it's actually OK to look bad. You have to look bad in the past in order to have a contrast with your more prepared, present self.

Another point is that what you choose to emphasize can be different depending on the school. I would tell UCSF a story about political unrest in my government role and how challenging it is to advocate for the infirm at a time in which public institutions are crumbling and the fiduciary relationship between physicians with the public appears to be wearing thin. I would tell a school like Stanford a story about an expensive research mishap that required extraordinary creativity in order to salvage data, which resulted in x, y, z unexpected innovation. Etc, etc, etc.

Thank you for your feedback. I do think that being too trusting, too perfectionistic, or too soft in the inappropriate situation are weaknesses. These are actual things that have posed significant struggles in my job (and things that have come up in my feedback conversations with supervisors and are the reasons why they felt I was not operating 'at the next level'). The thought that they might come across as me trying to portray "covert strengths" did not cross my mind at all. I will keep this in mind as I approach such prompts.

I had to unnecessarily dramatize ordinary conflicts or create a spectacle out of failure in a way that reflects poorly on me as a person.
You have to look bad in the past in order to have a contrast with your more prepared, present self.
Is this a necessity with "challenge" prompts? If so, how does it contrast with "failure" prompts?


The point about tailoring secondaries to the school, beyond the 'Why Us' essay, is useful.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Also:
Thank you for your feedback. I do think that being too trusting, too perfectionistic, or too soft in the inappropriate situation are weaknesses. These are actual things that have posed significant struggles in my job (and things that have come up in my feedback conversations with supervisors and are the reasons why they felt I was not operating 'at the next level'). The thought that they might come across as me trying to portray "covert strengths" did not cross my mind at all. I will keep this in mind as I approach such prompts.

Is this a necessity with "challenge" prompts? If so, how does it contrast with "failure" prompts?

The point about tailoring secondaries to the school, beyond the 'Why Us' essay, is useful.

I suppose I'll be the first to let you know that, indeed, when you are applying into a program that requires unflinching fiduciary responsibility, conscientiousness, and humanity verbatim, yes, saying you inhabit all three to a fault is very predictably not going to land well.

It isn't even that they can't actually be weaknesses in excess. They absolutely can. But you're being so "on the nose" about it that you come across as if you're evading the question. By doing so, you don't actually communicate that you are trusting, perfectionistic, or soft—you end up communicating that you are either unreflective at baseline, or actively defended.

As the elder Hannah Montana says: everybody makes mistakes, everybody has those days. If you cannot find a genuine failure in which there is no very thinly veiled redeeming quality underneath it, that aspect itself becomes a data point that can alter impressions. Also, if they are using a rubric to judge your answer, they could be motivated to perceive it less favorably because it is cliche for a reason: everyone's initial impulse in an evaluative context is to answer "what are your weaknesses" with a list of strengths.

Challenge prompts and failure prompts, to me, communicate the same request for information. They want to know that you are someone that can acknowledge a mistake made in earnest and who shows some degree of urgency to correct themselves, make amends, and do better in the future. How you want to categorize your experience around that is the only true "creative" part of this process, which was not apparent to me when I was going through it.
 
I'm helping the OP, so this advice is meant for a general audience's ears.

Most prehealth/premeds get hung up on the semantics between challenge and adversity. Essay prompts don't help matters by asking you to "keeping an open mind" and let you talk about any situation in which a conflict arises.

Let me illustrate my framework to clarify the different types of conflict that fit the intention of the prompt word.

Challenge
Artemis 2 going to the moon. There are different engineering design challenges that have to be undertaken to guarantee a safe flight and return. However, the main objective/challenge remains for the mission: get four people to the moon (to take pictures) and return them to Earth (using mostly gravity).

Setback
Artemis 2's malfunctioning toilet once they were on their way.

Adversity
Artmeis 2 fortunately didn't face bad weather, but imagine a thunderstorm off the Florida coast at launch.

Consider each from the perspectives of the astronauts, the mission control directors, the scientists, and the family members.