Which makes more money: periodontist or prosthodontist

[korndoctor]

Which specialty, periodontics or prosthodontics, do you fellows predict will make more 5 years down the road, considering all other influences?

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[allover]

yes.

 

[servitup]

Whichever one picks the better location, is most business savvy, and most personable.

 

[ToldYouSo]

rofl

 

[drhobie7]

Do pros. Go to a program that gives you good implant experience and you can do all of your own cases.

 

[Stroszeck]

Pros is DEFINITELy one of those best kept secrets kind of things in dentistry. For years people always say pros is dying but believe me it isn't. Even though those guys have relatively high lab fees, they are raking in some serious cash....

 

[MomDMD]

My husband is a prosthodontist and 17 years ago when he decided to do it everyone told him it was a dying profession. Well, look who's laughing all the way to the bank now? Even during the recession, he was so busy. Veneers & implants are the way to go. And most insurance does not cover it, so cash all the way.

 

[DrReo]

My husband is a prosthodontist and 17 years ago when he decided to do it everyone told him it was a dying profession. Well, look who's laughing all the way to the bank now? Even during the recession, he was so busy. Veneers & implants are the way to go. And most insurance does not cover it, so cash all the way.

What would be a quoted net income for a fellow prosthodontist?

 

[senpai]

I'm sorry I would have to disagree...Each of these people are speaking of specific individuals, and they may be truely doing extremely well. However, the data says otherwise of pros in general. The latest ADA survey of dentist practice series (and earlier data as well) consistently shows prosthodontist making by far the least amount than any other specialy at an average net income of $212,310, barely more than an average GP. From this survery, periodontist take in an average net income of $263,200.
So based on averages, the data shows Perios making more, but yes a garbage man who is a real entrepeneur, good businessman, likeable person, and in an area conducive to such business can make more money than any dental specialist in the area...
http://www.ada.org/1619.aspx

 

[Mackchops]

senpai, I love the part where you compare a prosthodontist making over $200k a year to an entrepeneurial garbage man 🙂

OP, the easiest way to solve your problem is by becoming duel-certified. Perio pros. Do the bilat sinus augmentation, anterior vertical graft, 8-implants, AND fab the roundhouse. San Antonio has a great program and Penn has one too. I've also heard that UConn will duel train.

 

[GTFOOMICT]

senpai, I love the part where you compare a prosthodontist making over $200k a year to an entrepeneurial garbage man 🙂

OP, the easiest way to solve your problem is by becoming duel-certified. Perio pros. Do the bilat sinus augmentation, anterior vertical graft, 8-implants, AND fab the roundhouse. San Antonio has a great program and Penn has one too. I've also heard that UConn will duel train.

I will be the first to say I don't know what I'm talking about.

BUT, if you're a prosth from an average program, do you really need the extra perio training? Not trying to knock the perio training, but come on, you've gone through prosth. I would think you're set. Do they not get surgical exposure and training. Then again, dropping 8 implants with the augmentation you suggest is no joke. I am curious if you think it's feasible to spread your knowledge base that wide to be great at restoring large prosh cases in addition to the surgical aspects. Just a thought.

 

[Mackchops]

I will be the first to say I don't know what I'm talking about.

BUT, if you're a prosth from an average program, do you really need the extra perio training? Not trying to knock the perio training, but come on, you've gone through prosth. I would think you're set. Do they not get surgical exposure and training. Then again, dropping 8 implants with the augmentation you suggest is no joke. I am curious if you think it's feasible to spread your knowledge base that wide to be great at restoring large prosh cases in addition to the surgical aspects. Just a thought.

If you want to place AND restore, you're not going to get the experience at most (any?) pros programs to place the juicy ones. Anyone can pop in a 4.3x10 Nobel Replace for a missing #19, but if you want to do bigger cases and not limit your restoration to your surgical ability, you're going to need the surgery training that you can only get in OS or perio -- and I don't know of any duel-degree OS/Pros programs (unless you can get Craig Misch to start one up...). So, you could either double-board in perio/pros in a combined program (5 yrs at San Antonio, 4 at Penn without the pros certificate), get them separately (3 yrs each), do an implant fellowship after finishing pros (1-2 yrs after 3 yrs of pros - usually part time so you can still work), or become a GP and learn everything through CE on the weekends.

My above reply was a bit sarcastic though -- I wouldn't recommend following this route if making money is what drives you. Think of all the tuition and lost years of income! But if you want to be a rockstar, it doesn't get much better...

My $0.02

 

[DDSperio]

It all depends on how good you are, and your practice location.

I know a GP dentist, with extensive implant knowledge (about 22 years). His practice is in Union Square in SF. He used to make about 120K/month before the crisis (I'm not really sure what is the situation right now)
Same can apply for any specialist, if you do what do in an excellent way, then no matter what specialty, you'll make good money.

Make sure you do something you like, other wise it'll get boring after few years.

Confucius said:Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life

 

[charlestweed]

If you want to place AND restore, you're not going to get the experience at most (any?) pros programs to place the juicy ones. Anyone can pop in a 4.3x10 Nobel Replace for a missing #19, but if you want to do bigger cases and not limit your restoration to your surgical ability, you're going to need the surgery training that you can only get in OS or perio -- and I don't know of any duel-degree OS/Pros programs (unless you can get Craig Misch to start one up...). So, you could either double-board in perio/pros in a combined program (5 yrs at San Antonio, 4 at Penn without the pros certificate), get them separately (3 yrs each), do an implant fellowship after finishing pros (1-2 yrs after 3 yrs of pros - usually part time so you can still work), or become a GP and learn everything through CE on the weekends.

My above reply was a bit sarcastic though -- I wouldn't recommend following this route if making money is what drives you. Think of all the tuition and lost years of income! But if you want to be a rockstar, it doesn't get much better...

My $0.02

At USC perio program, you learn a lot of prosth. The perio and prosth residents have weekly conferences together…where they present implant cases and discuss the tx plans. It is important for the surgeon (either perio or OS) to have strong prosth knowledge so he/she can help bail out the referring GPs since many of them are clueless about implant treatment planning and restorations.

I don’t think it is beneficial to have dual perio/prosth certificates. My wife (a perio) knows how to restore most implant cases but she chooses not to do them. She limits her practice to periodontics and uses her prosth knowledge to teach the referring GPs to restore implants that she placed.

 

[Stroszeck]

At USC perio program, you learn a lot of prosth. The perio and prosth residents have weekly conferences together…where they present implant cases and discuss the tx plans. It is important for the surgeon (either perio or OS) to have strong prosth knowledge so he/she can help bail out the referring GPs since many of them are clueless about implant treatment planning and restorations.

I don’t think it is beneficial to have dual perio/prosth certificates. My wife (a perio) knows how to restore most implant cases but she chooses not to do them. She limits her practice to periodontics and uses her prosth knowledge to teach the referring GPs to restore implants that she placed.

Why not just do the crowns herself then instead of spending time "teaching" the referring GPs? IS it because they might not refer implant cases to her anymore?

 

[Mackchops]

At USC perio program, you learn a lot of prosth. The perio and prosth residents have weekly conferences together…where they present implant cases and discuss the tx plans. It is important for the surgeon (either perio or OS) to have strong prosth knowledge so he/she can help bail out the referring GPs since many of them are clueless about implant treatment planning and restorations.

I don’t think it is beneficial to have dual perio/prosth certificates. My wife (a perio) knows how to restore most implant cases but she chooses not to do them. She limits her practice to periodontics and uses her prosth knowledge to teach the referring GPs to restore implants that she placed.

Just as your wife is armed with training, experience, and an understanding of current trends, techniques, and literature in her niche field, she is just as unarmed with regards to all other disciplines -- regardless of the depth of her understanding in pros, endo, ortho, etc. This isn't meant to suggest that her clinical skills are any less than you suggest -- I'm sure she can restore "most implant cases" and probably at a high level of clinical skill. But she can't do it with the "extras" you get from formal specialty training. If you disagree with this, then what is the point of pursing specialty training in the first place -- in any discipline? Be a GP limited to periodontics.

A dual-boarded perio-pros specialist is able to diagnose, plan, and treat perio-pros patients armed with a background specific to those types of patients. They have the training to tackle these patients without referral just as your wife treats her perio patients and you treat your ortho patients. If you think of any specialist (single or dual-certificate) in the context of the patients they are trained to see, I think perio-pros makes perfect sense for someone interested in treating that type of patient.

 

[charlestweed]

Just as your wife is armed with training, experience, and an understanding of current trends, techniques, and literature in her niche field, she is just as unarmed with regards to all other disciplines -- regardless of the depth of her understanding in pros, endo, ortho, etc. This isn't meant to suggest that her clinical skills are any less than you suggest -- I'm sure she can restore "most implant cases" and probably at a high level of clinical skill. But she can't do it with the "extras" you get from formal specialty training. If you disagree with this, then what is the point of pursing specialty training in the first place -- in any discipline? Be a GP limited to periodontics.

A dual-boarded perio-pros specialist is able to diagnose, plan, and treat perio-pros patients armed with a background specific to those types of patients. They have the training to tackle these patients without referral just as your wife treats her perio patients and you treat your ortho patients. If you think of any specialist (single or dual-certificate) in the context of the patients they are trained to see, I think perio-pros makes perfect sense for someone interested in treating that type of patient.

You are right! My wife’s prosth knowledge is nowhere near that of the real prosthodontists who receive the formal training. This is why she still has to refer, on the average, 1-2 cases to her former USC instructor (who is a prosthodontist) a month. The point I am trying to make here is being a dual board perio/prosth specialist don’t necessarily help you generate more income. There are 2 main reasons the GPs refer their patients to the specialists: 1. the case is too complicated for them to handle 2. they know that the specialists only perform a specific procedure (ie implant placement only) and won’t steal their patients ( ie trying to restore the implant).

 

[charlestweed]

Why not just do the crowns herself then instead of spending time "teaching" the referring GPs? IS it because they might not refer implant cases to her anymore?

Yes....and without the GP referrals, her practice would be dead.

 

[Mackchops]

You are right! My wife’s prosth knowledge is nowhere near that of the real prosthodontists who receive the formal training. This is why she still has to refer, on the average, 1-2 cases to her former USC instructor (who is a prosthodontist) a month. The point I am trying to make here is being a dual board perio/prosth specialist don’t necessarily help you generate more income. There are 2 main reasons the GPs refer their patients to the specialists: 1. the case is too complicated for them to handle 2. they know that the specialists only perform a specific procedure (ie implant placement only) and won’t steal their patients ( ie trying to restore the implant).

AHH! I completely agree. My initial post was meant to be tongue and cheek -- someone doesn't pursue double specialization if they're after the big bucks. Nevermind the fact that the income potential is probably no more than any other perio or pros specialist, but 5 more years of lost income? Insane! Unless, like anything else, that's what you want to do.

Personally, it's a patient population I hold very near and dear and I will be pursuing some form of advanced training in the area. I don't know if I'll be one of them, but in some circumstances these perio/pros guys can run circles around the rest of us and, for their patients' sakes, I tip my hat to them.

 

[mike3kgt]

I'd hate to be forward when I say this, but this is one of the dumbest and most disengenous threads I've read in a long time.

These two specialties are two completely different, yet complementary, specialties of dentistry. Perio and Pros are like college roommates... they are either the best of friends that do everything together or those that co-exist without talking too much.

Yes I understand the implant treatment modality and it's relationship with perio / pros, but in reality, there is MUCH MUCH more to prosthodontics than just implant placement / restoration.

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Go into prosthodontics if you truly enjoy being a teeth dentist rather than just a tooth dentist. Do not go into prosthodontics if you don't enjoy doing preparations, complete dentures, or mentally masturbating how 100 microns will change your life.

Go into periodontics if you love everything there is to about the periodontium but want to stay far away from worrying about occlusal schemes on complete dentures. Do not go into periodontics unless you enjoy flaps, SRP and sitting around wondering how you can gain .3mm of clinical attachment at any means possible (including your first born son).

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The money will follow in either profession and as the previous poster who said "Whichever one picks the better location, is most business savvy, and most personable." is absolutely correct.

 

[patata]

I'd hate to be forward when I say this, but this is one of the dumbest and most disengenous threads I've read in a long time.

These two specialties are two completely different, yet complementary, specialties of dentistry. Perio and Pros are like college roommates... they are either the best of friends that do everything together or those that co-exist without talking too much.

Yes I understand the implant treatment modality and it's relationship with perio / pros, but in reality, there is MUCH MUCH more to prosthodontics than just implant placement / restoration.

----------
Go into prosthodontics if you truly enjoy being a teeth dentist rather than just a tooth dentist. Do not go into prosthodontics if you don't enjoy doing preparations, complete dentures, or mentally masturbating how 100 microns will change your life.

Go into periodontics if you love everything there is to about the periodontium but want to stay far away from worrying about occlusal schemes on complete dentures. Do not go into periodontics unless you enjoy flaps, SRP and sitting around wondering how you can gain .3mm of clinical attachment at any means possible (including your first born son).

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The money will follow in either profession and as the previous poster who said "Whichever one picks the better location, is most business savvy, and most personable." is absolutely correct.

love this one !

Looking at the original title the only thing I can figure out is the person is more interested in income than the field so no matter what there will be always something, someone making more money. The basic thing as explained above is what we call " Job Satisfaction" , go to an area where you can find it. We have very close prostho -perio relations and both of these specialties are needed for a good foundation.

The school where I am goes by the philosophy that Prosthodontist is the quarterback who will guide the team of specialists treating a patient to reach the optimal treatment goal. When the restorative patient comes in they come in with a problem that doctor I need my teeth fixed, they will go through all the surgery, ortho work or any number of screws you put in their head but in the end if the result is not optimal and the patient sees his teeth are not like what he/she expected its the "Prosthodontist" fault to come up with correct "TREATMENT PLANNING" I think you guys are intelligent enough to know what am trying to say. You can learn "How to do over weekend classes and spending money but where will you learn what to do and when to do(phasing)"

My 2 cents

 

[mike3kgt]

The school where I am goes by the philosophy that Prosthodontist is the quarterback who will guide the team of specialists treating a patient to reach the optimal treatment goal.

The oral surgeon, endodontist, orthodontist and the periodontist are the restorative doctor's "technician." Simply put, yet true.

Now.... albeit significantly more education than a lab technician but to serve the same goal which is to be apart of the overall treatment plan to which the restorative dentist calls the shots. Now if my periodontist will tell me, "You can't use x bone to do that, what about using y or z instead" it isn't so much different from my lab tech telling me "You can't use x material for this application, what about using y or z instead".

Now if you're saying "well, that's just crap, I'm a doctor not a technician" well, tough. Certainly there are many others who are happy being described as that and are happy to take home that endodontist or periodontist salary as a result.

If you truly want to be king of the hill, be the restorative dentist. If you happy making a ton of $$ but giving up control, be the specialist.