which one is stronger nucleophile? (odyssey chapter 8 no.41)

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sopliim

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Which one is more stronger nucleophile?
SH-/DMF and OH-/DMF.
I think that SH- is stronger because of aprotic solvent, but the answer is OH-/DMF
Is there anyone know why????

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Which one is more stronger nucleophile?
SH-/DMF and OH-/DMF.
I think that SH- is stronger because of aprotic solvent, but the answer is OH-/DMF
Is there anyone know why????
Actually protic goes left and down as the trend of strength of nucleophilicity. Down because size. Protic solvents have H-bond or dipoles that stabilize the nucleophilic atom. This makes it less reactive and a weaker nucleophile. A larger atom can resist these dipoles (I believe from H bonds), while a smaller atom will be more vulnerable to this stabilizing effect. Aprotic solvents are the ones that go up and to the left, which is why OH- is the better nucleophile! SH is larger and would be better in a protic solvent.
 
Oh... I am sorry I was confused..
Th answer is SH is a stronger nucleophile than OH-.
I know SH- is stronger in a protic solvent.
But the answer is SH- is stronger than OH-
I am confused because DMF is aprotic solvent....OH- should be stronger in aprotic solvent...
 
Oh... I am sorry I was confused..
Th answer is SH is a stronger nucleophile than OH-.
I know SH- is stronger in a protic solvent.
But the answer is SH- is stronger than OH-
I am confused because DMF is aprotic solvent....OH- should be stronger in aprotic solvent...
Might be an exception. At my school we were taught that SH- was always the strongest then I- then like CN- in aprotic solvents as a rule of thumb. They didn't really give a rule behind it. Kind of surface level stuff :/
 
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Actually protic goes left and down as the trend of strength of nucleophilicity. Down because size. Protic solvents have H-bond or dipoles that stabilize the nucleophilic atom. This makes it less reactive and a weaker nucleophile. A larger atom can resist these dipoles (I believe from H bonds), while a smaller atom will be more vulnerable to this stabilizing effect. Aprotic solvents are the ones that go up and to the left, which is why OH- is the better nucleophile! SH is larger and would be better in a protic solvent.

I discussed solvents in great detail in another post, so I will make this answer short. It turns out for reasons not totally understood, that sulfur nucleophiles beat oxygen nucleophiles REGARDLESS of the solvent. This is a general rule that is seen throughout much of organic chemistry. Sulfur is a larger atom than oxygen and less electronegative, electrons are more loosely held and are available to attack. I will be happy to debate this in a future post, but for the DAT this is a good general rule.

Hope this helps

Dr. Romano
 
I discussed solvents in great detail in another post, so I will make this answer short. It turns out for reasons not totally understood, that sulfur nucleophiles beat oxygen nucleophiles REGARDLESS of the solvent. This is a general rule that is seen throughout much of organic chemistry. Sulfur is a larger atom than oxygen and less electronegative, electrons are more loosely held and are available to attack. I will be happy to debate this in a future post, but for the DAT this is a good general rule.

Hope this helps

Dr. Romano

Hi Dr. Romano, does this case only apply to sulfur and oxygen? Because when I was going through Chad's videos I learned that the nucleophile strength follows the trend of basicity in aprotic solvents like DMF. So, I was following that rule and thought that OH- would be a stronger nucleophile than SH- in DMF.
If it is a general rule that sulfur nucleophiles beat oxygen nucleophiles, then I'll just memorize that, but is this the only exception? Or are there others? And if a question like this were to show up on the DAT, would it be safe to choose the SH- as the stronger nucleophile when compared to OH-?

thank you
 
Hi Dr. Romano, does this case only apply to sulfur and oxygen? Because when I was going through Chad's videos I learned that the nucleophile strength follows the trend of basicity in aprotic solvents like DMF. So, I was following that rule and thought that OH- would be a stronger nucleophile than SH- in DMF.
If it is a general rule that sulfur nucleophiles beat oxygen nucleophiles, then I'll just memorize that, but is this the only exception? Or are there others? And if a question like this were to show up on the DAT, would it be safe to choose the SH- as the stronger nucleophile when compared to OH-?

thank you
Do yourself a favor, and get a text written by a PhD organic chemist. I think Klein, Smith and Carey did a great job. Nucleophilicity often parallels basicity, but this is only a very general rule that causes many students to make errors. I- is a very weak base, but a very good nucleophile. Lets talk Sulfur. SH- is less basic than OH-, but is a FAR GREATER nucleophile. Sulfur is large, and the electronegativity is less than Oxygen, hence the electrons are more loosely held. This renders it a greater nucleophile. Also.....another reason that I have NOT seen authors address is the fact that Sulfur is a relatively poor base because the orbital overlap between Sulfur and Hydrogen is not as favorable as between Hydrogen and Oxygen. I have recently seen studies involving CN-. This nucleophile is almost as good as Sulfur !!!! It reacts in BOTH polar aprotic and polar protic solvents, although at FASTER rates in polar aprotic solvents. 20 hours vs. 4 hours. These nucleophiles...SH- and CN- are favored by the SN2 process especially in an aprotic solvent. Notice that these two species are also not very basic. For the DAT exam......be alert for species such as CN-, CH3S-, I-, SH-.....these are strong nucleophiles that favor SN2. ( For homework, you will tell me WHY SN2 is favored by strong nucleophile !!!!) If we employ Oxygen nucleophiles, we also now have very good nucleophiles but also strong bases. The Oxygen atom especially when in the anionic form, has a very favorable interaction with the small 1s orbital of hydrogen, and the E2 operates as a competitor with SN2. Usually on a secondary or tertiary halide, elimination prevails. Sorry for a long explanation, but your question was quite general. To sum it all up......Yes....for your purposes.....SH- trumps HO- in all solvents when functioning as a nucleophile. Data on this is quite easy to find and it is studied extensively in the chemical literature. Thanks for such a delightful question.

Hope this helps

Dr. Romano
 
Do yourself a favor, and get a text written by a PhD organic chemist. I think Klein, Smith and Carey did a great job. Nucleophilicity often parallels basicity, but this is only a very general rule that causes many students to make errors. I- is a very weak base, but a very good nucleophile. Lets talk Sulfur. SH- is less basic than OH-, but is a FAR GREATER nucleophile. Sulfur is large, and the electronegativity is less than Oxygen, hence the electrons are more loosely held. This renders it a greater nucleophile. Also.....another reason that I have NOT seen authors address is the fact that Sulfur is a relatively poor base because the orbital overlap between Sulfur and Hydrogen is not as favorable as between Hydrogen and Oxygen. I have recently seen studies involving CN-. This nucleophile is almost as good as Sulfur !!!! It reacts in BOTH polar aprotic and polar protic solvents, although at FASTER rates in polar aprotic solvents. 20 hours vs. 4 hours. These nucleophiles...SH- and CN- are favored by the SN2 process especially in an aprotic solvent. Notice that these two species are also not very basic. For the DAT exam......be alert for species such as CN-, CH3S-, I-, SH-.....these are strong nucleophiles that favor SN2. ( For homework, you will tell me WHY SN2 is favored by strong nucleophile !!!!) If we employ Oxygen nucleophiles, we also now have very good nucleophiles but also strong bases. The Oxygen atom especially when in the anionic form, has a very favorable interaction with the small 1s orbital of hydrogen, and the E2 operates as a competitor with SN2. Usually on a secondary or tertiary halide, elimination prevails. Sorry for a long explanation, but your question was quite general. To sum it all up......Yes....for your purposes.....SH- trumps HO- in all solvents when functioning as a nucleophile. Data on this is quite easy to find and it is studied extensively in the chemical literature. Thanks for such a delightful question.

Hope this helps

Dr. Romano

Hi Dr. Romano thank you for getting back to me. Now I think I understand why SH- is a stronger nucleophile than OH-. But I want to confirm one more thing. When we compare I-, Br-, Cl-, F- in an aprotic solvent, I learned that F- would be the strongest nucleophile. And in a protic solvent, the I- would be the strongest nucleophile and F- would be the weakest nucleophile. Is this correct? I thought I understood this concept but I'm having some doubts now because of the OH- and SH- misunderstanding that I had earlier.

Thank you for your time
 
Hi Dr. Romano thank you for getting back to me. Now I think I understand why SH- is a stronger nucleophile than OH-. But I want to confirm one more thing. When we compare I-, Br-, Cl-, F- in an aprotic solvent, I learned that F- would be the strongest nucleophile. And in a protic solvent, the I- would be the strongest nucleophile and F- would be the weakest nucleophile. Is this correct? I thought I understood this concept but I'm having some doubts now because of the OH- and SH- misunderstanding that I had earlier.

Thank you for your time
Actually, nevermind. I just did problem 58, which answered that question haha.
In polar protic: I- > Br- > Cl- > F-
In polar aprotic: F- > Cl- >Br-> I-

Thank you again
 
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