Which PGY-1 are accepted for neurology

[Javad]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hi i did read the FAQ, and did a search but i couldnt find a direct answer, for Neurology other than Prelim Internal Medicine, which PGY-1 can one do to qualify for neurology and also is this dependent of the neurology program?
( can one do transitional surgery or prelim surgery and get into neurology?)

Thank You

 

[PhakeDoc]

Neurology requires 6-8 months minimum of internal medicine training (see the ABPN website for more specifics) which is best done with a prelim medicine year. I've heard of people before getting by in a transitional year but that's risky if you don't get that number of mandatory rotations. Prelim surgery is not allowed.

As far as programs with built-in PGY1 prelims (categorical) versus advanced (ones that do not have it built in), there's no complete list that I've seen - presumably because programs continue to change. Just go to either the ACGME website or FREIDA and it should tell you.

 

[PhakeDoc]

From the ABPN site, file named IFA_Cert_Neuro.....

A full year of ACGME-accredited training in internal medicine or, as an acceptable alternative, a full year in an
ACGME-accredited program in which a minimum of six months of training must be in internal medicine, the de-
tails of which must be documented by the training director. The composition of these six months may NOT in-
clude rotations in neurology, family medicine, or emergency medicine. To ensure that these six months constitute
a high-quality experience, they should emphasize progressive responsibility for the resident. At least two of the
additional six months must be spent in internal medicine, pediatrics, and/or emergency medicine. For candidates
entering neurology residency training on or after July 1, 2001, at least two of the additional six months must be
spent in internal medicine, pediatrics, family medicine, and/or emergency medicine. No more than two of the
remaining four months may be spent in neurology.
​

 

[PhakeDoc]

pardon the formatting, but the cut n paste didn't want to behave.

 

[Terpskins99]

The specifics...

A full year of ACGME-accredited training in internal medicine or, as an acceptable alternative, a full year in an ACGME-accredited program in which a minimum of six months of training must be in internal medicine, the details of which must be documented by the training director. The composition of these six months may NOT include rotations in neurology, family medicine, or emergency medicine. To ensure that these six months constitute a high-quality experience, they should emphasize progressive responsibility for the resident. At least two of the additional six months must be spent in internal medicine, pediatrics, and/or emergency medicine. For candidates entering neurology residency training on or after July 1, 2001, at least two of the additional six months must be spent in internal medicine, pediatrics, family medicine, and/or emergency medicine. No more than two of the remaining four months may be spent in neurology.
AND
Three full years of postgraduate, specialized residency training in a neurology program accredited by the ACGME

PDF available here
http://www.abpn.com/ifas.htm

 

[Javad]

thank you very much

 

[HarveyCushing]

Neurology requires 6-8 months minimum of internal medicine training (see the ABPN website for more specifics) which is best done with a prelim medicine year. I've heard of people before getting by in a transitional year but that's risky if you don't get that number of mandatory rotations. Prelim surgery is not allowed.

As far as programs with built-in PGY1 prelims (categorical) versus advanced (ones that do not have it built in), there's no complete list that I've seen - presumably because programs continue to change. Just go to either the ACGME website or FREIDA and it should tell you.

The key is to get the internal med training regardless of the method, right? I remember this post from a few months back where the poster got his IM training "through" a peds prelim.

I was in the same exact predicament. I was able to scramble into a pediatrics prelim position and explained my situation. They coordinated with the IM dept and have guaranteed me 6 months of medicine even though peds dept (program director is a Godsend) will be paying me for the entire 12 months. I spoke with the neuro dept and they were okay with it. just to make sure, I spoke with the abpn and they didnt foresee any issues as long as i obtained documentation for the 6 mths of medicine which has to be under direct supervision of an internist.

So my suggestion would be to look for family medicine and peds prelim spots. and explain your situation and hopefully they'll let you do 6 mths of medicine...everyone wins...peds/fp dept has a position filled, you fill your requirements, and medicine has a resident free of charge for 6 months.

 

[Terpskins99]

I wouldn't normally respond to you, but you replied in this thread with somewhat misinformed advice that should be corrected.

I was in the same exact predicament. I was able to scramble into a pediatrics prelim position and explained my situation. They coordinated with the IM dept and have guaranteed me 6 months of medicine even though peds dept (program director is a Godsend) will be paying me for the entire 12 months. I spoke with the neuro dept and they were okay with it. just to make sure, I spoke with the abpn and they didnt foresee any issues as long as i obtained documentation for the 6 mths of medicine which has to be under direct supervision of an internist.

So my suggestion would be to look for family medicine and peds prelim spots. and explain your situation and hopefully they'll let you do 6 mths of medicine...everyone wins...peds/fp dept has a position filled, you fill your requirements, and medicine has a resident free of charge for 6 months.

Be careful. The only reason thatthere was able to get approval for his prelim year is because the 6 floor months of medicine was supervised by the internal medicine department.

I was offered a family medicine pre-lim year that was going to arrange for 8 floor months of medicine, but an ABPN credentialing officer told me this would not count because the residents running the "medicine" department were supervised by a family medicine residency program. The hospital MUST have an accredited internal medicine program there. The same applies with a pediatrics prelim year. It will not count for adult neurology.

Also, keep in mind that neurology residency program directors themselves are sometimes unsure of the exact policy. The ABPN officer relayed an instance where a Neuro PD "approved" for one of their residents to do a family medicine internship. This resident subsequently completed his neurology residency, but was denied permission to sit for boards because the ABPN said he had not met their internship requirements. The resident then had to complete yet another internship. Not only that, the resident still had to appeal for special permission to sit for boards because the ABPN officially required the appropriate internship be completed PRIOR to the actual neurology residency. It was a mess, to say the least.

One last thing: about transitional year. According to the ABPN officer, an allopathic PGY-1 transitional year is perfectly acceptable as an internship year for neurology so long as you complete the required 6-8 months of appropriately supervised medicine floor months (if you do 6 months of medicine, then the extra 2 months must be in ER and I believe surgery). The 6-8 months of medicine can include medicine sub-specialties (e.g. cardiology, GI, ID... etc).

 

[HarveyCushing]

I wouldn't normally respond to you, but you replied in this thread with somewhat misinformed advice that should be corrected.


Be careful. The only reason thatthere was able to get approval for his prelim year is because the 6 floor months of medicine was supervised by the internal medicine department.

I was offered a family medicine pre-lim year that was going to arrange for 8 floor months of medicine, but an ABPN credentialing officer told me this would not count because the residents running the "medicine" department were supervised by a family medicine residency program. The hospital MUST have an accredited internal medicine program there. The same applies with a pediatrics prelim year. It will not count for adult neurology.

Also, keep in mind that neurology residency program directors themselves are sometimes unsure of the exact policy. The ABPN officer relayed an instance where a Neuro PD "approved" for one of their residents to do a family medicine internship. This resident subsequently completed his neurology residency, but was denied permission to sit for boards because the ABPN said he had not met their internship requirements. The resident then had to complete yet another internship. Not only that, the resident still had to appeal for special permission to sit for boards because the ABPN officially required the appropriate internship be completed PRIOR to the actual neurology residency. It was a mess, to say the least.

One last thing: about transitional year. According to the ABPN officer, an allopathic PGY-1 transitional year is perfectly acceptable as an internship year for neurology so long as you complete the required 6-8 months of appropriately supervised medicine floor months (if you do 6 months of medicine, then the extra 2 months must be in ER and I believe surgery). The 6-8 months of medicine can include medicine sub-specialties (e.g. cardiology, GI, ID... etc).

I didn't post any misinformed advice. I just posted a quote of "PhakeDoc" answer to the OP's questions and what "thatthere" experienced and how he got his IM training "through" a peds prelim program that worked things out for him. Hence the "------ " in my sentence. If you read "thatthere's" post you would have recognized that his IM training was done with an IM dept

They coordinated with the IM dept and have guaranteed me 6 months of medicine

but he did this "through" a peds prelim year opening. Never in my post did I say that a peds prelim year or FM would count for ABPN, just that someone ("thatthere") was able to source a peds spot to sponsor him to get his 6-8 months of IM training needed. That is strictly what my post says. Obviously his case is very rare and he is lucky it worked out. I hope that everyone at this point understands that the 6-8 months of IM needs to be completed for neurology as "PhakeDoc" already mentioned that and posted the info.

 

[medsRus]

Would Medicine ICU in a transitional year program count towards the 6 months IM requirement? Thanks.

 

[Terpskins99]

Would Medicine ICU in a transitional year program count towards the 6 months IM requirement? Thanks.

yop

 

[trp2006]

Question: For the prelim year when they mention 6 months of medicine, can that include specialty of IM months such as GI, Cards, Endo, Oncology etc? Or does it strictly include general IM?

 

[Mattchiavelli]

TYs are perfectly fine, just make sure on your interviews you ask how many TYs they've had doing their PGY-1 for neurology- At least 2 of our 6 residents in my incoming class are doing TYs as their PGY-1.

 

[curlygirlie106]

Question: For the prelim year when they mention 6 months of medicine, can that include specialty of IM months such as GI, Cards, Endo, Oncology etc? Or does it strictly include general IM?

I'd guess that subspecialties are just fine so long as its ward experience. I'm headed for a well-respected categorical program and just got my intern year schedule. I've got months of things like Geriatrics, Cards (which is an ICU month for us) etc. that have all been signed off on as part of my IM requirements.