Which Residency Do You Think Is Appropriate...?

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16846

I am interested in working as an attending in the "Fast Track" area of an emergency room/Urgent Care center, and wanted some input from the various individuals here on which residency/specialty would be the best choice to proceed towards this goal.

I was thinking that an EM specialty would be the best course of action, but I was told that if I only want to work "Fast Track"/Urgent Care center then I would be better off doing a FP or even an IM residency and then possibly doing a fellowship in a field related to emergency medicine. Is this a good advice?

Furthermore, I have heard that many hospitals ER's, "Fast Track" area or not, are gravitating toward an EM only trained staff. Is this indeed the future of EM in the United States? or will there still be a place for FP & IM trained physicians as attendings in America's Emergency Departments?

For anyone who has never heard of or is wondering what a "Fast Track"/Urgent Care center is, its the area of the ER/Center that deals with injuries/illness that can typically be discharged inside of one shift and the patient usually doesn't need to be admitted or have lengthy/significantly invasive diagnostic procedures done (Think simple fractures, small foreign body removal, small lacs, non-complex infections, etc...)

Any information that can be provided regarding this topic or my queries is greatly appreciated.

Mike
 
You know, you raise a good point, since most EM residencies devote minimal to zero time in resident education in them, because the acuity is so low. The irony is that that is what a lot of the biz is. One place I know puts the residents in fast track after 11pm, when there are fewer providers.

The fast-track area proper is similar to a "doc-in-the-box" (storefront urgent-care office), and that's part of what makes it interesting.

For the next 20 years, there's going to be room for other specialties (and maybe longer, if demand for EM decreases); FP might be your best, if you don't want to do EM. It seems a little counterintuitive to do IM or FP, then an EM fellowship, if your aim is directly to work in fast track.
 
Most of the ED "Fast Track/Urgent Care" facilities I'm familiar with are staffed by PA/NPs that are supervised by an MD/DO.

As far as FP/IM practitioners in the ED, I think they will be phased out as more people graduate from EM residency. There is a movement afoot by the ACEP to require BC/BE in EM to work in the ED. (thats a lot of acronyms for one sentence).

I'd recommend an EM residency or even an EM/IM combined program. I think FP probably focuses more on management of long term medical problems/preventative medicine than on the kind of acute concerns you'll see in urgent care.
 
A goodly number of FP grads work some or full time in the ED. I thought it was 25%, but I can't find that stat. The link above says 4% exclusive, and 51% part.

EM/IM is overkill, I believe, to work fast-track. If you do EM/IM, you can write your own ticket in academics.

The ACEP position is that EM grads won't fully fill EM spots until about 2020 (or thereabouts); if applicants fall off of EM, that could be longer.
 
I think most of those FP's are working in small community/rural ED's or in areas that aren't as sought after by the more desireable BC/BE EM's. Those are the positions that will be filled by 2020. There is no shortage of EM trained people in urban/academic ED's. (at least I don't think there is)

I think you're probably right about EM/IM being overkill, that does tend to be more academic.

I think those FP's in urgent care are there for the extra income or because they realized they probably were better suited for the short term, quick fix patient relationship that is more characteristic of EM. Most urgent care/fast track centers are in locations where EM people have a monpoly on the available ED positions so urgent care is the next best thing. That's just my opinion though...I don't have any stats to back up my position.

If the OP chooses to do FP rather than EM, they probably won't have much trouble finding work in urgent care/fast track over the next 20 years. I still think that most of the providers in that environment are NP/PA's but there will always be a need for physician supervision/involvement.

P.S. My favorite thing about the EM forum is that most people here are capable of reasonable/mature disagreement (makes me glad to be a member of the EM community)
 
Originally posted by tonem
I think most of those FP's are working in small community/rural ED's or in areas that aren't as sought after by the more desireable BC/BE EM's. Those are the positions that will be filled by 2020. There is no shortage of EM trained people in urban/academic ED's. (at least I don't think there is)

That's exactly what I meant, and that's a point that needs to be made again - if you want to work in the ED, EM is best; if you want to be IM or med/peds or FP, be ready to be where the EM folks aren't, and that is in the rural parts, or in the hospitals where, how do we say it, things aren't great.
 
Our Fast track is staffed by PA's/NP's most of the time and we all DREAD having to work there when they aren't there. One of my friends once joked that we could replace the Fastrack with an ATM that dispensed 4 vicodin and a work excuse and our patient satisfaction and outcomes would be the same or better. I can't imagine spending the rest of my life there but one of my old academic attendings jokes about retiring to the fasttrack. Other fasttracks in town are staffed by EM,FP, or IM trained docs or moonlighting residents. If that is really what you want to do (and think long and hard about it) do a 3 yr FP or EM residency and then you can reevaluate your options when you graduate. At least if you then decide you hate the fasttrack you can do something else. If you think you would rather that something else be full EM than do EM if you would rather do FP clinic work than do FP.
 
The AAEM is perhaps the most progressive group regarding the field of EM. They clearly state and I agree, that all ED's should be staffed by EM board certified doctors, and this clearly is the trend (only way to be ABEM certified is to graduate from a residency in EM ...unless grandfathered).
If you wish only to work a fast track (why purposely make less money?), then being a FP is ok, as long as you are in an environment with EM back up.
Clearly this is the trend, to be EM certified/trained if you wish to work in the ED.
 
I agree that you should really think hard before you decide to become a "fast track" doc.

1) NP's and PA's are doing it, for a lot cheaper than you.
2) If you got on staff, you would be the red-headed stepchild at an all EM group. I have seen this myself. You would not be able to cover the other areas in the department.
3) Many "rural" ED's don't even have fast tracks.
4) Depending on your triage quality, you may be getting deceptively well 'sick' patients in your fast track. While it is acceptable to assume everyone has a mild illness (reasonable and commonplace in the primary care setting) the EM approach requires a "think worst first" mindset, and you will be held to the standards of an emergency department and not a clinic if things go wrong. Here is an example:

32 yo female with severe headache, vomiting, and bothered by the light. No other medical problems. Mother has migraines.

The internist or FP in his clinic is likely to give her imitrex and assume it is a migraine. He will be right 99% of the time. The other 1% of the time he will miss the SAH or ICH from a ruptured AVM. When he is sued, it will be decided in his favor, as the standard of care for an FP or IM in a clinic is to miss this uncommon illness.

On the other hand, the EM doc better not miss this; she will get the "full meal deal" i.e. CT and LP, and afterwards he might send her home on antimigraine meds. If he does miss this, he will be hung out to dry, as he is a specialist in emergencies, has CT and LP at his disposal, and should not miss this stuff.

Finally, an FP or IM in an EM setting will be expected to behave like the EM. This mindset is taught in an EM residency and not in an FP or IM residency. I think you will be putting yourself at risk, and if you are at all neurotic, you may spend your career worrying about missing the needles in the haystack that come through every fast track.

I suspect you are early in your career, and I hope this helps. I am a former FP now in EM residency. While 90% of EM is FP stuff, the other 10% is really tough to get through if you aren't formally trained. I STRONGLY recommend EM training if you are considering working in a ED.

Best of luck to you.
 
One last thing...liability. Even EM groups are rethinking the "physian extenders" because of liability.
 
the national practitioner database in their most recent survey lists 1 malpractice claim for every 487 pa's in practice as opposed to 1/40 for physicians. the avg payout was also half as much per pa case as per md case.
looks like hiring midlevels in the e.d. doesn't cost that much from a liability standpoint after all...
 
Simply restating an article in "American Medical News" from a month ago...also, the deep pockets are not in the pants of a PA or a nurse. It is far easier to hold liability in the hands of a physician than it is to hold in the hands of a PA....that explains the lower levels. Certainly there is no disrespect towards the PA, simply easier to go after the physician...they supposedly should be supervising.
I remember talking to a St. Louis University Law Student when he was discussing how "NP's were a lawyers dream"...as they provide a "way in" for litigation. Some people obviously love to litigate, and look for perceived weak links.
This has nothing to do with the knowledge base of midlevels, simply restating opinions and articles.
 
"the national practitioner database in their most recent survey lists 1 malpractice claim for every 487 pa's in practice as opposed to 1/40 for physicians. the avg payout was also half as much per pa case as per md case.
looks like hiring midlevels in the e.d. doesn't cost that much from a liability standpoint after all..."

Yeah, probably suing the "supervising MD" since he/she has the deep pockets and the true liability for the PA's actions...
 
The Facts
The Health Care Quality Improvement Act, passed by Congress in 1986, requires that all malpractice payments (losses, paid claims) made on behalf of any clinician a state licenses, registers, or certifies must be reported to the NPDB. Since the data bank began collecting statistics in 1990, it has recorded a total of 100,750 paid claims for all physicians of every type, with an average paid claim of $188,773. During the same period, the NPDB recorded a total of 240 paid claims for PAs, with an average paid claim of $83,625.[3]

Perspective on these data can be gained by noting that, in 1998, an estimated 272.8 physicians and 11.7 PAs exist for every 100,000 people; 23.4 physicians exist for every PA in this country. We can surmise that, all other things being equal, the number of physician-related paid claims is 23.4 times that of PA-related paid claims. In reality, the number of physician-related paid claims approaches 420 times that of PA-related paid claims. A further disparity is noted when mean losses are compared over this period: Mean physician-related losses are 2.26 times greater than PA-related losses.

Another way of examining the differences between the malpractice experience of PAs and physicians is to calculate how many providers of each type exist for each malpractice claim. Data from 1996 show that one claim was paid for every 46.6 physicians and one for every 808.1 PAs.

A similar disparity was revealed when the total number of dollars expended in all physician-related paid claims were compared with all PA-related paid claims. During the entire period that the NPDB has been collecting data, the total for physicians was 946.6 times the total for PAs.

That PAs affect a practice?s liability one way or another is not indisputable on the basis of the evidence; the NPDB data show, however, that a relatively small number of malpractice payments are being made on behalf of PAs.

Impact of PAs on Malpractice Claims
Studies show that effective communication with patients is the best way to avoid a malpractice suit.[4-6] PA education has always focused on interviewing skills and techniques to improve communication ? two skills that can enhance any practice.

Since early in the PA profession, it has been speculated that a PA could reduce the risk of malpractice judgments because the PA?s presence allowed the supervising physician to concentrate on more complicated cases. It is assumed that employing a PA reduces waiting time and provides patients with greater attention, which enhances patient rapport and satisfaction. Recent studies show that scheduling enough time to talk with a patient in the examining room and to answer telephone calls personally and promptly lowers the risk of malpractice claims.[7]

Adding a PA to a practice may prevent patients from feeling rushed or deserted during an office encounter.[8] These observations emphasize that what a clinician says may be less important the tone and process of the visit in predicting malpractice claims.[1] One commentator observed: ?Good communications skills are not only good medicine ? they are good for the bottom line.?[9] Interviewing and communication skills probably translate, over the long run, into fewer malpractice suits and reduced fees for professional liability insurance.

The Priority is Quality Care
As changes in health care delivery force shorter patient visits and other restraints on care, one hopes that PAs? traditional strengths as excellent clinicians and communicators will continue to validate a conviction expressed early in the history of the profession by the American Medical Association?s assistant general counsel: ?PAs probably hold the potential for being one of the best malpractice tools available....?[10]


REFERENCES
1. Levinson W, Roter DL, Mullooly JP, et al. Physician-patient communication: The relationship with malpractice claims among primary care physicians and surgeons. JAMA 1997;277(7):553-559.
2. Shapiro RS, Simpson DE, Lawrence SL, et al. A survey of sued and nonsued physicians and suing patients. Arch Intern Med 1989;149(10):2190-2196.
3. The National Practitioner Data Bank Research File of September 30, 1997, as maintained by the Division of Quality Assurance, Bureau of Health Professions, Health Resources and Services Administration, US Department of Health and Human Services.
4. Lester GW, Smith SG. Listening and talking to patients. A remedy for malpractice suits? West J Med 1993;158(3):268-272.
5. Kaplan SH, Greenfield S, Gandek B, et al. Characteristics of physicians with participatory decision-making styles. Ann Intern Med 1996;124(5):497-504.
6. Frankel RM. Communicating with patients: Research shows it makes a difference. AAPA NEWS 1995;16(2):8.
7. Charles SC, Gibbons RD, Frisch PR, et al. Predicting risk for medical malpractice claims using quality-of-care characteristics. West J Med 1992;157(4):433-439.
8. Beckman HB, Markakis KM, Suchman AL, et al. The doctor-patient relationship and malpractice: Lessons from plaintiff depositions. Arch Intern Med 1994;154(12):1365-1370.
9. Trafford A. When paying medical bills, how about a tip for caring? The Washington Post March 25, 1997, p. 206.
10. Ryser J. Claims rate low: PAs seen as asset in liability crisis. Am Med News 1976;April 26:1,11-12.
 
Dude, forget about it. No 0ne is trying to insult you...I don't want you to think I am (nor anyone else) is picking on you, rather stating firmly held beliefs and quoting articles (AMN). It is a huge concern for attendings. It is a concern for me!
Fact remains that lawyers look for weaknesses and perception is huge. One could state that 3 FP docs doc in a large ED could decrease expense (vs only 3 higher paid ER docs), yet perception regarding length of training, and specialization of training would ALWAYS come up. It becomes a standard of care issue...and further more, lawyers always go after the deepest pockets (ie sueing McDonalds for fat kids vs. the local burger joint). ONly makes sense eh? Alot of things have changed in the past 3-5 years regarding malpractice risk and a WHOLE lot since the initial observations made in the aformentioned article (see previous poster).
Don't take offense so easily, none was intended.
 
fair enough. I was just trying to make the case that pa's are not lawsuit magnets.thanks for not flaming me. peace-e
 
Part of it depends on where you want to practice geographically. If you're aiming for rural america and small hospitals, a non-EM residency maybe fine. The problem is that lots of those EDs don't have the volume to support separate fast track.

For any place where the market is tight (major metropolitan areas) if you want to work in an ED, better do the EM residency. A few years ago, we were still employing a pediatrician to see kids in the peds/ob-gyn section of our ED. It became clear that it wasn't a cost efficient solution. He was good with the kids, but useless for the ob-gyn cases, and the nature of the ED is such that those rooms often got used for major medical when the rest of the ED overflowed in which case he was getting paid to do nothing. Hiring non-EM trained physicians to work in the ED is not even considered anymore, and I believe that's the case with most of the hospitals in the area, though there are a few exceptions. Those exceptions will probably disappear with the new residency program in Tampa as well, once they start graduating physicians.

We won't hire non-EM trained for fast track work because IM and FP trained guys simply don't think like we do. Plus, they wouldn't be able to handle all varieties of patients when we get rushed with non-fast track patients.

ED triage is an art more than science, and an imperfect one at that. There are at least 2 or 3 cases that get mistriaged to fast track that eventually require major workups or admission per shift at my hospital. I don't particularly trust FP trained docs to recognize those cases, and completely don't trust IM docs in that setting simply because they only treat adults--no ob/gyn, and no surgical experience.
 
I suspect these numbers also reflect patient acuity...

Just as neurosurgeons and OB's get hosed with lawsuits while FP's are sued less often.

Midlevels have a place, but I'm not sure that its in an ED setting...
 
Originally posted by EMRaiden

Midlevels have a place, but I'm not sure that its in an ED setting...

They do well in the fast track setting. In our ED, they work either as an adjunct in the main ED during nights (suture duty and fast track-type patients) and gyn/peds section of the ED during the day. The rationale there is that the vast majority of gyn/peds/ob that we see in the ED is pretty much paint by numbers, and they are easily trained and intelligent enough to come get us for anything that falls outside of those confines.
 
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