Which school?

[TXpremed904]

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Hello SDN!

I was recently accepted to TCOM (DO) as an IS applicant and would pay tuition+fees around $17,000/yr. I had previously been accepted to an average OOS MD program, which I'll keep anonymous, that has tuition+fees around $55,000/yr. I've seen a TON of these DO vs MD posts, but not necessarily one that factors in a HUGE cost difference, and EVERYONE I have talked to only advises me to choose the MD school without hearing me out unfortunately.

I acknowledge that BOTH schools are fantastic, and for comparisons sake, location, quality, curriculum, rotations, etc....ALL are equal and I would be happy at both, which makes this a very hard decision (assume the MD school is a good school, perfectly equal with TCOM). Before I get crucified, I applied to many DO school's willingly, and therefore obviously don't want to bash either degree - but perhaps someone with more experience can lend their advice, I simply only want to see which school others would consider.

Tuition + fees
TCOM (DO) = $17k/yr x 4 = $68,000 total
MD school = $55k/yr x 4 = $220,000 total

All I hear on SDN and from peers is how an MD will afford more opportunities (to some degree) than a DO will in certain specialities, however would an MD degree really be worth $152,000 more (not including interest)?

 

[MiaMia14]

I have rotated with a lot of TCOM students and they are generally really on their game. From what they tell me it seems as though they are really pushed to take the USMLE and most of them match into acgme residencies. In almost every case I would say go MD over DO, but because it's TCOM and because of the price difference I think I would be leaning towards TCOM. That's a tough one though. Any idea what you might want to do?

 

[JeBrAs]

If you plan on staying in TX for residency go to TCOM. They have an excellent match and almost 75% match acgme and it has an awesome reputation in TX. Cost of medical education there is also a huge plus

 

[meliora27]

.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Go to TCOM and save yourself a lifetime of debt. In the end, the job is the same. TCOM basically changed to MD in 2007-8 so the outcome is the same. They have all their students take USMLE.

 

[jqueb29]

Depends on what specialty you want to go into

 

[s5260205]

Would the more expensive MD school be a better option if OP wants to do competitive residencies that may be biased against DO applicants?

 

[MiaMia14]

I think you kind've answered your question. I mean I would rather be able to do what I want for the rest of my life, then not have as much debt, but just going to an MD school doesn't guarantee you a spot in a competitive residency. Think back to how many people in undergrad wanted to go to med school when you were a freshman...then think about how many actually got into medical school. That's how I think of a lot of those competitive specialties. Few people are really going to be in a position to apply for them. If you think you can bust your butt and be one of those people, and If something like RadOnc etc. was on your radar as a possibility, yeah I would take the MD acceptance.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I wouldn't put money on a pedestal. There are many ways to pay back your debt. That said, MD is no guarantee of a) matching a top specialty or b) you even wanting a top specialty after going through rotations. There's really no right answer here.

 

[TXpremed904]

Thanks for all the responses, very helpful! Going into school I'm trying to stay very open-minded, so I do not have a specific speciality or future career location in mind, which definitely makes the decision ever harder. I've heard very good thing's about both schools, but again can't decide on whether the "what if I want to enter a competitive specialty" is worth over $150,000, especially b/c it is only a "what if."

 

[BrooklynBulls]

If you're not already set on a few hypercompetitive specialties, I'd EASILY choose TCOM. I am rather financially conservative, but this actually OPENS doors, not closes them. Having such a low debt commitment reduces your worry about residency salary, about specialty choice (since you wont have 500k of principle to pay back, something that's less than ideal to do as a general pediatrician, for example), and about choosing medicine in general-- I do have friends that are locked into medicine because they have no other way to pay back the loans.

TCOM all the way in my opinion. I went to a DO school, am applying for Radiology (which comparatively, is more competitive than the average residency), and have had no shortage of quality interviews thus far.

 

[AM508]

TCOM by far....17k a year is a ridiculously awesome price for a school with a great rep.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Tough call. Generally I'd say MD all the way but 40k a year is significant.

Additionally, Tcom is one of the best DO schools. Look at last years match, seriously one of the most impressive DO march lists I've seen.

It's tough, I don't think you can go wrong either way. IHad this been basically any other DO school(aside from maybe a couple of others) is say MD without a doubt.

Good luck, you're in a great pickle!

 

[allantois]

The decision is hard because it is basically like gambling on the future. Some people may provide better insight if you let us know what MD school is under discussion.
Whether the decision to attend MD school will be financially right would depend on which specialty you will match; and that is not something that anyone can predict.

 

[radkat101]

I think this is a pretty obvious choice. TCOM might even have better rotation sites than some of the other TX MD schools (the whole city of Ft. Worth!) and the match list doesn't indicate that the grads are having any trouble matching into competitive residencies. I'm not sure what the downside is here ESPECIALLY if you wan't to practice in Texas where all the residency programs are familiar with the school. You will also have major regrets if you go to the MD school and realize that you aren't competitive for hard to get residencies anyway.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

Tough call. Generally I'd say MD all the way but 40k a year is significant.

Additionally, Tcom is one of the best DO schools. Look at last years match, seriously one of the most impressive DO march lists I've seen.

It's tough, I don't think you can go wrong either way. IHad this been basically any other DO school(aside from maybe a couple of others) is say MD without a doubt.

Good luck, you're in a great pickle!

Which others?

 

[radkat101]

Thanks for all the responses, very helpful! Going into school I'm trying to stay very open-minded, so I do not have a specific speciality or future career location in mind, which definitely makes the decision ever harder. I've heard very good thing's about both schools, but again can't decide on whether the "what if I want to enter a competitive specialty" is worth over $150,000, especially b/c it is only a "what if."

Be careful there, because even if you did decide you wanted a competitive specialty, the "MD" would play a small part in comparison to the importance of being a superstar academically. This is much more difficult than many pre-meds realize considering you start med school with a 50% chance of being in the bottom half of a class full of incredibly intelligent and hard working people.

 

[DocWinter]

Take the money and run.
Seriously, don't even think about this one, thank your lucky stars you won't have the immense burden of debt. Myself and many others would kill for that.

 

[cliquesh]

Be careful there, because even if you did decide you wanted a competitive specialty, the "MD" would play a small part in comparison to the importance of being a superstar academically. This is much more difficult than many pre-meds realize considering you start med school with a 50% chance of being in the bottom half of a class full of incredibly intelligent and hard working people.

The MD part actual plays a huge role. An USMD applicant with average board scores (220-230) still has a realistic shot at matching most things, including specialities like neurosurgery and derm. 20 out of 29 USMD applicants with usmle scores between 220-230 matched derm. 23 out of 25 USMDs with scores between 201-210 matched radiology. http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf.

Additionally, even if you don't want to do something competitive, you will still get better quality residency interview invites as a MD compared to a DO.

I'd personally go to the MD school unless you are 100% family medicine and only family medicine.

 

[swollcat]

How are your test taking skills? You can low pass usmle step 1 and still be all but guaranteed a mid tier specialty such as anes, psych, rad, etc at the MD. The posts about matching acg at tcom are on point but you should pretty much assume you'd be going into IM and the like if you PLAY the odds. 150k is significant but you would recoup that loss easily as I'm sure there is no foreseable outcome where you would see yourself practicing for anything less than 10 years. I would do some research to see if you can get any aid any aid at all at the MD. Any bit counts and for that reason I would ultimately pick the MD.

No offense to you whatsoever but as a borderline MD/DO candidate whose stats I will assume are at the lower/higher end of each spectrum respectively I would take the MD and run with it. You earned it. Either way you're going to be stressing about money or what you could have\should have become. But given both scenarios, chances are you will be sitting on excess wealth as oppose to struggling to make ends meet so go with the one with a higher ceiling

 

[DrBunsenHoneydew]

TCOM has better match list than most MD schools. Go take a look on the school specific thread (1st page). Your chances of matching into a super competitive residency would be fine. If that's what you want.... But if not, they match well at all the best residency spots in Texas (Southwestern, Baylor, etc..) for FP, IM, Ob-Gyn, etc. During your clinical years you will do most rotations through those systems if you please. DFW has many opportunities for GME, and it won't matter the letters after your name. They have people match in derm, orthopedic surg, neuro, neuro surg, rad every year as well. Go to TCOM, get an awesome education, and stay in the greatest country in North America, Texas.

 

[costales]

Why no acceptances from any Texas MD school? Doesn't sound right.

(I was accepted at an MD school and went to TCOM. It turned out fine. Had a great time on my rotations in Fort Worth. Ran into my MD friends on the interview trail. Matched my #1 choice. Yeah, TCOM needs no introduction in Texas, but if it is your life's goal to be an academic attending at some top-ranked place, people there tend to hire their clones).

 

[Harker Heights]

TCOM might even have better rotation sites than some of the other TX MD schools (the whole city of Ft. Worth!)

I have visited JPS and the Medical District. I'd love to have those rotations. TCOM students are required to meet mininum criteria set by each department and they are pushed to perform at a high level. Additionally, there are many doctors including many specialists in the area who are alumni that TCOM students get to spend time with and get advice from. They often go to lunch together and ride together. This fact is not well known. I really believe that the secret sauce at TCOM is in their clinical training, which is alleged to be substandard at some DO school.

 

[user3]

Read the nrmp charting outcomes that cliquesh posted. You can score 201-210 (low passing step 1) as a USMD and still have a good chance at almost any specialty besides the surgeries or derm. This cannot be said for a DO student.

 

[jaguar33]

Debt is a guge factor, so I vote TCOM for that reason. Your quality of life and stress will be drastically improved if you don't have a huge debt burden on your mind regardless of specialty. You can spend your life making choices based on what YOU want to do rather than what your DEBT needs you to do.

 

[TXpremed904]

Why no acceptances from any Texas MD school? Doesn't sound right.

I just got my first Texas MD II for a January interview, so my hopes are not high to say the least. Like others said, it's bc my stats are borderline.

The responses in summary have shown me HUGE positives of both:

"You will also have major regrets if you go to the MD school and realize that you aren't competitive for hard to get residencies anyway"
"An USMD applicant with average board scores (220-230) still has a realistic shot at matching most things"
"Having such a low debt commitment reduces your worry about residency salary, about specialty choice, medicine in general. You can spend your life making choices based on what YOU want to do rather than what your DEBT needs you to do."
"low passing step 1 as a USMD and still have a good chance at almost any specialty besides the surgeries or derm. This cannot be said for a DO student. You will still get better quality residency interview invites as a MD compared to a DO."

And votes are equal. dang it.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Which others?

Probably the state schools if you have IS tuitition for them

 

[asdf123g]

based off what @user3 and @cliquesh said...I'd go MD. Higher chance of a competitive specialty....open more doors...higher pay (in general)...quicker to pay off debt...higher income for rest of life...no regrets should you go DO. I shadowed a doctor who does orthopedic and he said for his first 2 years he put most everything into paying off his debt and he was debt free from there on out. Appropriate your money wisely, and youll be fine.

 

[Osteopath999]

based off what @user3 and @cliquesh said...I'd go MD. Higher chance of a competitive specialty....open more doors...higher pay (in general)...quicker to pay off debt...higher income for rest of life...no regrets should you go DO. I shadowed a doctor who does orthopedic and he said for his first 2 years he put most everything into paying off his debt and he was debt free from there on out. Appropriate your money wisely, and youll be fine.

It is not true that an MD degree will get you higher salary than a DO degree. The salary depends on which specialty and years of experience. For example, The salary is basically the same for both MD and DO orthopedic surgeons with the same years of experience.

 

[asdf123g]

It is not true that an MD degree will get you higher salary than a DO degree. The salary depends on which specialty and years of experience. For example, The salary is basically the same for both MD and DO orthopedic surgeons with the same years of experience.

i should have been more explicit..what I meant was that you'll have a better opportunity (most likely) to get into one of those higher paying specialties going MD than DO. Both can get you there, but one will def be a harder path. An extra 40k for 4 years is a lot of money...but the difference between only getting into a 200k specialty vs a 400k specialty in the long run is much more significant.

 

[DrBunsenHoneydew]

Fun fact: not everyone goes into medicine for competitive specialties.

 

[JimmyB123]

Read the nrmp charting outcomes that cliquesh posted. You can score 201-210 (low passing step 1) as a USMD and still have a good chance at almost any specialty besides the surgeries or derm. This cannot be said for a DO student.

The more I read through things, I'm realizing step1 score isn't really the number one most important factor. I saw a PD survey on EM (albeit its not all specialities) that high importance was given to EM clinical rotation grade, clinical rotation grades overall, and LORs. Step1 score was listed as middle importance.

Am I right to think that step1 score importance is over hyped? Or do different specialities and programs vary in their preferences?

 

[cliquesh]

The more I read through things, I'm realizing step1 score isn't really the number one most important factor. I saw a PD survey on EM (albeit its not all specialities) that high importance was given to EM clinical rotation grade, clinical rotation grades overall, and LORs. Step1 score was listed as middle importance.

Am I right to think that step1 score importance is over hyped? Or do different specialities and programs vary in their preferences?

EM is a bad example. They care about their standard letter of evaluation (SLOE) probably more than anything else. From my experience, it's mostly about your step scores. I know my school's ortho program would not interview anyone with less than 600s on either Comlex level 1 or level 2.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Hello SDN!

I was recently accepted to TCOM (DO) as an IS applicant and would pay tuition+fees around $17,000/yr. I had previously been accepted to an average OOS MD program, which I'll keep anonymous, that has tuition+fees around $55,000/yr. I've seen a TON of these DO vs MD posts, but not necessarily one that factors in a HUGE cost difference, and EVERYONE I have talked to only advises me to choose the MD school without hearing me out unfortunately.

I acknowledge that BOTH schools are fantastic, and for comparisons sake, location, quality, curriculum, rotations, etc....ALL are equal and I would be happy at both, which makes this a very hard decision (assume the MD school is a good school, perfectly equal with TCOM). Before I get crucified, I applied to many DO school's willingly, and therefore obviously don't want to bash either degree - but perhaps someone with more experience can lend their advice, I simply only want to see which school others would consider.

Tuition + fees
TCOM (DO) = $17k/yr x 4 = $68,000 total
MD school = $55k/yr x 4 = $220,000 total

All I hear on SDN and from peers is how an MD will afford more opportunities (to some degree) than a DO will in certain specialities, however would an MD degree really be worth $152,000 more (not including interest)?

D.O. and have the same capabilities of practicing as a M.D. and save $132,000? ....

 

[user3]

If you're not already set on a few hypercompetitive specialties, I'd EASILY choose TCOM. I am rather financially conservative, but this actually OPENS doors, not closes them. Having such a low debt commitment reduces your worry about residency salary, about specialty choice (since you wont have 500k of principle to pay back, something that's less than ideal to do as a general pediatrician, for example), and about choosing medicine in general-- I do have friends that are locked into medicine because they have no other way to pay back the loans.

TCOM all the way in my opinion. I went to a DO school, am applying for Radiology (which comparatively, is more competitive than the average residency), and have had no shortage of quality interviews thus far.

how were your board scores?

 

[TopTomato]

The MD part actual plays a huge role. An USMD applicant with average board scores (220-230) still has a realistic shot at matching most things, including specialities like neurosurgery and derm. 20 out of 29 USMD applicants with usmle scores between 220-230 matched derm. 23 out of 25 USMDs with scores between 201-210 matched radiology. http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf.

Additionally, even if you don't want to do something competitive, you will still get better quality residency interview invites as a MD compared to a DO.

I'd personally go to the MD school unless you are 100% family medicine and only family medicine.

How can you say that when DO's regularly match ACGME IM, EM, Peds, Ob/GYN, neuro, psych, and anesthesia? Sure it's not easy to match those but I wouldn't say "only go DO unless you're OK with FM". That seems like typical sentence a premed would make.

 

[radkat101]

How can you say that when DO's regularly match ACGME IM, EM, Peds, Ob/GYN, neuro, psych, and anesthesia? Sure it's not easy to match those but I wouldn't say "only go DO unless you're OK with FM". That seems like typical sentence a premed would make.

I've already found 2 MD schools in Texas with less EM matches than TCOM. All of the TCOM matches were ACGME as well.

Edit: And the rest of those specialties are actually very easy to match.

http://web.unthsc.edu/info/200679/admissions_and_outreach/2827/residency_placement_data

 

[TopTomato]

I've already found 2 MD schools in Texas with less EM matches than TCOM. All of the TCOM matches were ACGME as well.

Edit: And the rest of those specialties are actually very easy to match.

Yup! My point exactly.

 

[cliquesh]

How can you say that when DO's regularly match ACGME IM, EM, Peds, Ob/GYN, neuro, psych, and anesthesia? Sure it's not easy to match those but I wouldn't say "only go DO unless you're OK with FM". That seems like typical sentence a premed would make.

I wasn't trying to say DOs can only do family medicine. Sorry for not being clear.

I think if the OP knows for 100% he/she wants to do family medicine then going to TCOM would be a better option than any other school, including the expensive MD school he/she is considering. If, however, the OP wants to do something besides family medicine then I think, at least for me, the opportunities a MD degree provides over a DO is worth the extra cost.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

how were your board scores?

About 1 std deviation above average for all 4 of level 1,2, step 1,2. Why do you ask?

 

[TopTomato]

I wasn't trying to say DOs can only do family medicine. Sorry for not being clear.

I think if the OP knows for 100% he/she wants to do family medicine then going to TCOM would be a better option than any other school, including the expensive MD school he/she is considering. If, however, the OP wants to do something besides family medicine then I think, at least for me, the opportunities a MD degree provides over a DO is worth the extra cost.

Sure, but at this point OP is rolling the dice with 152k+. Now if OP ends up doing ENT or plastics or something ultra competitive the gamble pays off. But if he ends up liking something not very competitive, well then he just lost over 152,000 dollars. Now I don't know about you, but that's nothing to take lightly.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

I wasn't trying to say DOs can only do family medicine. Sorry for not being clear.

I think if the OP knows for 100% he/she wants to do family medicine then going to TCOM would be a better option than any other school, including the expensive MD school he/she is considering. If, however, the OP wants to do something besides family medicine then I think, at least for me, the opportunities a MD degree provides over a DO is worth the extra cost.

Your assertion is patently ridiculous. The 200k+ OP saves will be significant unless he enters all but the most popular and high competition fields, and even those are possible if OP ends up being elite (which they would pretty much have to be, anyway). The osteopathic pathway offers all competitive residencies except for one: Rad-onc. If you're going for Rad-onc, definitely go for the MD school. I'd similarly say that for Uro, ENT, Plastics, Ortho, Derm, it's comparatively harder for a DO to gain entrance than a USMD, though certainly possible (mostly through often not-as-high-quality AOA residencies). So if those fields are those that specifically appeal to the OP, and that only makes up about what, 5% of the match (?), then the MD school is likely the better option.

But in this case, the much better option for 90-95% of students is going to be the DO school.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

Sure, but at this point OP is rolling the dice with 152k+. Now if OP ends up doing ENT or plastics or something ultra competitive the gamble pays off. But if he ends up liking something not very competitive, well then he just lost over 152,000 dollars. Now I don't know about you, but that's nothing to take lightly.

It's more than 152k just because of interest. "Just 152k" would be more reasonable than 300k+ he'll pay even aggressively paying it down.

 

[DocWinter]

Sure, but at this point OP is rolling the dice with 152k+. Now if OP ends up doing ENT or plastics or something ultra competitive the gamble pays off. But if he ends up liking something not very competitive, well then he just lost over 152,000 dollars. Now I don't know about you, but that's nothing to take lightly.

Exactly. And most pre meds don't realize that in the big picture, the pie gets cut with about 50 or 60 percent of people going into FP or IM, and, I'll venture a ballpark, another 30 percent in ER, obgyn, General surgery, etc, all if which are DO friendly. My point- for every urologist or dermatologist, there are 50 physicians in other specialties of less competition. Spending that kind of money when the odds of you going into the same place are pretty close, MD/DO all put aside, no thanks

 

[user3]

About 1 std deviation above average for all 4 of level 1,2, step 1,2. Why do you ask?

people say "you will have plenty of options as long as you do well on your boards"-- but what if that doesn't happen? With low passing board scores, USMD students still have great chances at about any specialty but the surgeries and derm. You would have a difficult time matching radiology with 201-210 step 1 as a DO student, yet 92% of MD students matched. Why take that risk?

 

[TopTomato]

people say "you will have plenty of options as long as you do well on your boards"-- but what if that doesn't happen? With low passing board scores, USMD students still have great chances at about any specialty but the surgeries and derm. You wouldn't likely match radiology with 201-210 step 1 as a DO student, yet 92% of MD students did. Why take that risk?

Sure the "risk" is a no brainer when money isn't on the table. However we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars here. OP is in a peculiar situation. If the difference in attendance was something negligible the obvious answer would have been go MD. OP could buy a house with the money he saves with going the DO route.

 

[asdf123g]

He'd also be taking hundreds of thousands of a dollars risk per year POST graduation with a low paying specialty should he be such. Why take that risk?

Either way, he doesnt seem too crazy about the DO philosophy. Dont go DO if you dont strongly believe in it (i happen to).

 

[BrooklynBulls]

people say "you will have plenty of options as long as you do well on your boards"-- but what if that doesn't happen? With low passing board scores, USMD students still have great chances at about any specialty but the surgeries and derm. You would have a difficult time matching radiology with 201-210 step 1 as a DO student, yet 92% of MD students matched. Why take that risk?

You would have a MORE difficult time. But it'd still be possible, certainly, and if you want radiology, you will be able to get it thorough the AOA match which has fewer programs in less geographically desirable areas, but will still get you in with pretty uncompetitive stats.

 

[TopTomato]

He'd also be taking hundreds of thousands of a dollars risk per year POST graduation with a low paying specialty should he be such. Why take that risk?

True, realistically what percentage of MD students go into ENT, ortho, plastics, derm, rad-onc, and urology? Based off that alone the chances of them landing a ultra competitive specialty are not in his/her favor. Also if OP is that much of a hotshot student who's to say he/she can't be at the top of his/her class at TCOM and get those specialties?

 

[UBC2014]

You would be stupid not to take TCOM. It is a top school and matches fine, better than many MD schools.

If it was any other school, then it would be different. But this is a no brainer. TCOM is the clear choice.