Which schools are selective with Secondary Apps?

[rachel993]

Hi all-

I just wanted to compile a list of the schools that will automatically send out secondaries and those that are selective. I haven't finalized my school list yet, but I'll be applying all over the country and I just think it would just be useful info to know. So comment if you know about a specific school! and also, if it IS selective with secondaries, comment if you happen to know how selective it is.

Thanks 🙂

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[el_duderino]

Of the I think 17 programs I applied to, they all sent me a secondary except UC Riverside.

 

[persumas]

The MSAR has this information 🙂

 

[sinombre]

All of the UCs screen pre-secondary.

 

[rachel993]

The MSAR has this information 🙂

Do I have to pay to access MSAR, or is there a free copy somewhere online? I've tried the online access thing through AAMC but it gives very limited information unless you pay for it. which I don't want to do. . .

 

[el_duderino]

Do I have to pay to access MSAR, or is there a free copy somewhere online? I've tried the online access thing through AAMC but it gives very limited information unless you pay for it. which I don't want to do. . .

You have to pay for it.

You should consider the MSAR a requirement.

 

[persumas]

Do I have to pay to access MSAR, or is there a free copy somewhere online? I've tried the online access thing through AAMC but it gives very limited information unless you pay for it. which I don't want to do. . .

I agree with jonnythan. It is well worth the money. It'll more than pay itself off in the hours and sanity you save from not having to deal with each schools often poorly constructed websites to obtain all the information you need.

 

[lmn]

If you aren't willing to pay a very tiny amount for the huge amount of information the MSAR gives you, which will help you choose the best schools for you apply to in order to maximize your chances, then you are nuts. If you pay for one primary and secondary for a school that was a bad choice for you, but you didn't know that because you didn't research it on the MSAR, you have already lose much more than the cost of the MSAR. Not to mention the fact that you may even have an unsuccessful cycle due to poor school choice and whatever dollar amount you put on that mistake.

Also search, do you really think this question has never been asked before?

 

[rachel993]

If you aren't willing to pay a very tiny amount for the huge amount of information the MSAR gives you, which will help you choose the best schools for you apply to in order to maximize your chances, then you are nuts. If you pay for one primary and secondary for a school that was a bad choice for you, but you didn't know that because you didn't research it on the MSAR, you have already lose much more than the cost of the MSAR. Not to mention the fact that you may even have an unsuccessful cycle due to poor school choice and whatever dollar amount you put on that mistake.

Also search, do you really think this question has never been asked before?

I was aware that it had been asked before, thanks. the most recent one I saw was from '05.

 

[lmn]

I was aware that it had been asked before, thanks. the most recent one I saw was from '05.

Try more than one search phrase/term, there was literally a thread on here last week asking about schools that prescreen secondaries.

 

[Zelda840]

Vanderbilt prescreens.

 

[Endure]

Based on the admittedly few schools I applied to, I know that Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech and the UC's screen pre-secondary. Mayo has a similar screening method, only they require a fee before determining whether to review your letters of recommendation. UW, as well as other schools with heavy in-state enrollment, might reject you pre-secondary if you don't meet their residency requirements.

However, I believe Vanderbilt and the UC's are most notorious for their rigorous pre-secondary review process. I know there was speculation during the 2013-2014 application cycle about whether WF even screens anymore. If you review people's MDApps profiles, "Applied, Rejected" usually indicates a pre-secondary rejection.

Hope that helps.

 

[mrh125]

I have a question about this too, if schools don't prescreen is it still possible to be rejected from them before you receive the secondary? I heard that sometimes happens to people.

 

[Laureatebarrel]

Really piss me off that schools are moving away from screening i.e. free money. But anyway for screening, you can just check the admission page for the school, most say whether they screen or not.

 

[Endure]

I have a question about this too, if schools don't prescreen is it still possible to be rejected from them before you receive the secondary? I heard that sometimes happens to people.

I suspect that's only conjecture. Many schools do not review your application before it's designated "complete," meaning they've received your AMCAS, LOR's, secondary application and secondary fee. Considering many applicants decide not to submit a secondary application, it stands to reason that they wouldn't waste their time on it before it's complete.

 

[mrh125]

I suspect that's only conjecture. Many schools do not review your application before it's designated "complete," meaning they've received your AMCAS, LOR's, secondary application and secondary fee. Considering many applicants decide not to submit a secondary application, it stands to reason that they wouldn't waste their time on it before it's complete.

That makes a lot of sense. thanks

 

[gyngyn]

Really piss me off that schools are moving away from screening i.e. free money.

There is no better screener than the applicant. Fees exist is to reduce frivolous and excessive applications, not to make money. I would be happy to review all applications for free if the total number of applications was limited.

 

[LilEngineThatCould]

There is no better screener than the applicant. Fees exist is to reduce frivolous and excessive applications, not to make money. I would be happy to review all applications for free if the total number of applications was limited.

That makes a lot of sense, but it does seem somewhat unfair superficially. It's not like you're paying $10 for a secondary lol

 

[lmn]

That makes a lot of sense, but it does seem somewhat unfair superficially. It's not like you're paying $10 for a secondary lol

So you should spend that much more effort and time making sure you are actually competitive for where you choose to apply to. It's unbelievable how many people even on SDN apply to schools that missions or stats they don't fit in the least simply because they don't want to spend the effort to really look it up or because they feel that they are special for some reason. There are people who even refuse to buy the MSAR because of the cost, instead they waste hundreds of dollars applying to schools they don't have a chance at.

I honestly have no sympathy for people who don't care to spend the effort and time to choose the best list for themselves or those who believe they are special. I made a mistake or two choosing schools and paid the price, I don't feel sorry for myself in the least, and definitely not angry at the schools - if I did my homework a little better I shouldn't have applied there. My fault, my price to pay. Don't blame the schools for your errors or negligence.

 

[LilEngineThatCould]

So you should spend that much more effort and time making sure you are actually competitive for where you choose to apply to. It's unbelievable how many people even on SDN apply to schools that missions or stats they don't fit in the least simply because they don't want to spend the effort to really look it up or because they feel that they are special for some reason. There are people who even refuse to buy the MSAR because of the cost, instead they waste hundreds of dollars applying to schools they don't have a chance at.

I honestly have no sympathy for people who don't care to spend the effort and time to choose the best list for themselves or those who believe they are special. I made a mistake or two choosing schools and paid the price, I don't feel sorry for myself in the least, and definitely not angry at the schools - if I did my homework a little better I shouldn't have applied there. My fault, my price to pay. Don't blame the schools for your errors or negligence.

I totally get that. I certainly made the investment of the MSAR this year to avoid these types of problems (which I didn't do the first time.) I did say this seems unfair superficially simply because secondary apps are not cheap and I'm sure ppl would learn their lesson simply by getting rejected vs having to pay so much money for wasteful secondaries. But I definitely understand that you have to be willing to put in the time and effort to make sure you're applying to the right schools and not wasting your time and money. That's actually something I learned my first cycle because I was extremely naive and uninformed. I only recieved one invite for a secondary of the 10 schools I applied to lol and I didn't bother because I realized I had no business applying. So believe me I know this first hand. My only point was that money is a harsh way to teach ppl a lesson, when rejections sting just as much, but I'm not complaining about it.

 

[rachel993]

So you should spend that much more effort and time making sure you are actually competitive for where you choose to apply to. It's unbelievable how many people even on SDN apply to schools that missions or stats they don't fit in the least simply because they don't want to spend the effort to really look it up or because they feel that they are special for some reason. There are people who even refuse to buy the MSAR because of the cost, instead they waste hundreds of dollars applying to schools they don't have a chance at.

I honestly have no sympathy for people who don't care to spend the effort and time to choose the best list for themselves or those who believe they are special. I made a mistake or two choosing schools and paid the price, I don't feel sorry for myself in the least, and definitely not angry at the schools - if I did my homework a little better I shouldn't have applied there. My fault, my price to pay. Don't blame the schools for your errors or negligence.

I get that the MSAR is really helpful and I'm going to invest in it, but you seem to be assuming that everyone who attempts to avoid another cost /chooses not to buy it is a dumb ass who just "thinks they're special" and doesn't invest any time or effort in carefully selecting their schools. I appreciate the advice and I'd like to think you're just trying to be helpful but you do come of a bit, well, dickishly. but thanks. I do see your point.

 

[persumas]

I get that the MSAR is really helpful and I'm going to invest in it, but you seem to be assuming that everyone who attempts to avoid another cost /chooses not to buy it is a dumb ass who just "thinks they're special" and doesn't invest any time or effort in carefully selecting their schools. I appreciate the advice and I'd like to think you're just trying to be helpful but you do come of a bit, well, dickishly. but thanks. I do see your point.

yup, on SDN, sometimes you gotta read through the dickish-ness to get to the actual advice. 😵 Glad you found what you needed though, I actually had the same question the other week went through all the schools I was thinking about applying to in ~20 minutes.

 

[LilEngineThatCould]

I get that the MSAR is really helpful and I'm going to invest in it, but you seem to be assuming that everyone who attempts to avoid another cost /chooses not to buy it is a dumb ass who just "thinks they're special" and doesn't invest any time or effort in carefully selecting their schools. I appreciate the advice and I'd like to think you're just trying to be helpful but you do come of a bit, well, dickishly. but thanks. I do see your point.

Yeah idk if that was intentional or not, but they did come off like a douche lol I didn't say anything cuz I thought maybe I was being sensitive lol but good, the MSAR is a really great tool and saves you time in trying to look up stuff on each school's website (they're not all great or easy to navigate). It's only like $25 so you won't regret the investment 🙂

 

[lmn]

I get that the MSAR is really helpful and I'm going to invest in it, but you seem to be assuming that everyone who attempts to avoid another cost /chooses not to buy it is a dumb ass who just "thinks they're special" and doesn't invest any time or effort in carefully selecting their schools. I appreciate the advice and I'd like to think you're just trying to be helpful but you do come of a bit, well, dickishly. but thanks. I do see your point.

To be honest, I don't sugarcoat every single one of my recommendations for people, I do try to be helpful and supportive as I know how hard and stressful the process is, but some people quite honestly don't seem to understand or recognize how serious a situation is unless they get it in brutally honest terms. There are so many people who only want to apply to top schools despite not being competitive in the slightest, or want everyone else (complete strangers mind you) to do all the work for them and tell them where they should apply to, or some that just want to ignore everyone's suggestions on how they should approach the process to select a school list with their best chances when everyone is trying to help them (for example people refusing to use the MSAR - btw I wasn't referring to you specifically in the least, there has been many people I've seen on SDN who refuse to buy the MSAR, yet expect people to do all the work to tell them where they should apply or to look up every stat for them). It really does boggle me that these people were willing to put in 4+ years of hard work in classes, EC's, the MCAT, and everything else to get to the point of applying to schools, and then suddenly become too lazy or entitled to put in the work to best maximize their chances of admission as well as their $$$ when it comes to the actual step of applying to schools.

Also, I don't expect people at all to take any advice I give, or anyone else's, it's their applications, they know their app the best, and they have no obligation to take anyone else's advice and I completely agree with that and am fine with people ignoring any advice I give - I'm not an expert and I definitely don't know everything/or the best. But I still like to give pointers based on my experiences and what I have learned to help people try to navigate the process a bit and maximize their chances.

I'm sorry if you felt that I was singling you out or if I was insinuating that you were stupid or entitled, it surely wasn't my aim to offend you, my apologies.

 

[mrh125]

There is no better screener than the applicant. Fees exist is to reduce frivolous and excessive applications, not to make money. I would be happy to review all applications for free if the total number of applications was limited.

So what happens with the people who can't afford to pay $100-250 for apps? (I dont believe FAP covers more than 20 schools). Seems partially like an indicator of one's socioeconomic status. primary applications cost $30 per school. I'm not sure why the price for secondaries is so astronomically high.

 

[mrh125]

Really piss me off that schools are moving away from screening i.e. free money. But anyway for screening, you can just check the admission page for the school, most say whether they screen or not.

Some schools that still screen use secondaries as a cash cow I think. I know of people who were rejected less than a day after they submitted their secondaries. It's like, really?! you couldn't have just rejected them after the primary?!

 

[el_duderino]

I get that the MSAR is really helpful and I'm going to invest in it, but you seem to be assuming that everyone who attempts to avoid another cost /chooses not to buy it is a dumb ass who just "thinks they're special" and doesn't invest any time or effort in carefully selecting their schools. I appreciate the advice and I'd like to think you're just trying to be helpful but you do come of a bit, well, dickishly. but thanks. I do see your point.

If you apply to med school without heavily consulting the MSAR, you are making a huge mistake. That's pretty much the long and the short of it. Ignorance of the utility of the MSAR is a valid excuse, but once you have been made aware of it and its value you are all but obligated to pony up the measly fee to access it.

BTW, I am but a lowly MS0, yet I feel it's pretty safe to say that you need to get better at taking advice that is not necessarily given in a hand-holding, coddling way if you want to go to medical school. It's going to be pretty common in rotations and residency for people to tell you to do things or give you advice in ways that might come across as curt, uncourteous, or rude. Learn to look past any perceived attitude and focus on the information.

 

[rachel993]

[QUOTE="I'm sorry if you felt that I was singling you out or if I was insinuating that you were stupid or entitled, it surely wasn't my aim to offend you, my apologies.[/QUOTE]
No worries, I understood your message and I get why something like this would need to be laid out brutally to people. I just wanted to make clear to people reading this (not just you) that I'm not completely naive, despite how this question might be perceived. . . thus, I commented on your post.
But I do appreciate the advice. . . sorry about the dick thing.

[QUOTE="BTW, I am but a lowly MS0, yet I feel it's pretty safe to say that you need to get better at taking advice that is not necessarily given in a hand-holding, coddling way if you want to go to medical school. It's going to be pretty common in rotations and residency for people to tell you to do things or give you advice in ways that might come across as curt, uncourteous, or rude. Learn to look past any perceived attitude and focus on the information.[/QUOTE]
. . . because I was asking lmn to coddle me? I completely acknowledged the validity in his/her advice in the post you just quoted. And trust me I wasn't too heartbroken by the lack of "hand-holding". . . I'm already well aware that I will encounter uncourteous/rude people in med school, (& in life in general). Sooooo don't assume that I need to "get better at it" just because I felt like adding in a little comment about his tone on this casual online discussion forum. . . Especially since you seem to have a thing for adding your own--semi-redundant--comments on quite a few of these forums, after they've been resolved.