And what exactly does a stats ***** entail? Is this a school that's willing to overlook less than stellar ECs/interview skills/some other aspect of an app for high stats? Also what range of stats attract interest from these schools?
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Which schools are stats ******?
Started by lolpremed22
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:troll:
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deleted838145
Might I introduce you to: the MSAR
How is he trolling...
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I don't have it since I'm not applying yet. I was just curious since the term is thrown around often.
dont be so sensitive, lil bro
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deleted838145
Well in all seriousness, I know for a fact that UW and St. Louis are known to be "stats ******", particularly MCAT.
I think you are confusing The University of Washington and St. Louis University for another school.
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deleted838145
oops, I think I turned one school into two.
Neither of these schools could be accused of the crime in your title.
NYU
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deleted838145
sorry, i've heard multiple times that washu in st louis is an mcat "*****". is that not true?
nah man it's that you split WashU into UW + St. Louis for some odd reason. WashU needs love
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deleted838145
yeah I don't know why I had that brain fart there lol. I love any medical schools that may one day accept me.
how do you tell in MSAR? A school is stats-oriented by having high GPA and MCAT?
Yeah, with very little "left tail" stretch, for both MCAT and GPA.
WashU
UPenn
Hopkins
All come to mind
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Not that this is the only (or even best) way to answer the titular question, but I got curious what it would look like and thought I'd share.
I plotted median admitted MCATs against the US News survey reputation scores (avg of residency directors and peers). Gives the following:
Using that y = 2.07x + 498.44 I found a predicted MCAT per school based on rep, and then how far off the actual MCAT was. The schools with MCATs the furthest above what rep would predict:
And bonus fun fact, the furthest at the other extreme are University of Washington, UCLA, and Meharry, which come in ~8-9 points lower than reputations would predict.
I plotted median admitted MCATs against the US News survey reputation scores (avg of residency directors and peers). Gives the following:
Using that y = 2.07x + 498.44 I found a predicted MCAT per school based on rep, and then how far off the actual MCAT was. The schools with MCATs the furthest above what rep would predict:
And bonus fun fact, the furthest at the other extreme are University of Washington, UCLA, and Meharry, which come in ~8-9 points lower than reputations would predict.
NYU
This is how I was forming my school list without realizing it. I figured good schools with low metrics correlated with the most holistic application review. I like the idea of a school that takes the time to seek out good people, rather than good numbers.
Hopefully it turns out to be true.
Thanks for the graphs, you're fantastic as always!
I wonder if the stats oriented schools allow better predictability of admission chances when your stats are at the schools median or above......
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
You can much more reliably predict interview invites from places like WashU or Vandy with high stats, at least compared to places like UCSF or UCLA. Admission is a different ball game though, that really will depend a lot on your interview performance.
I actually will go against the grain here (certainly n = 1), but both Pritzker and WashU interviewed me although my gpa is only 3.5. I got no dice from UCSF or UCLA. Granted my MCAT is 519/37, so maybe that is why. I think it's still hard to reliably predict IIs in general. There are simply too many factors, including the applicant's geography, what school they attended, hooks and other things beyond the basic things they look for. Probably the best you can get is putting schools into bins/tiers and expect to get interview invites from certain tiers that best match your stats.
When I say high stats, I mean high MCAT mostly. 3.8+ GPAs are dime a dozen. Only a few percent of MCAT testers get a 37+.
Ah, okay. Hence your graph. Speaking of which, do you have a full list of the schools on the other end, beyond UCLA, UW, & Meharry? If you're willing to share, that is 🙂
Yeah I can add later today for ya
Bruh......dude called him LIL BROTHER like he a child lol
To a certain degree: all of them.
As requested, the schools with MCATs the furthest below what their reputations would predict:
lol he is a child, lil sis
I've always interpreted 'stat ******' to be schools to have absurdly high 10th percentiles for matriculant cGPA/MCAT:
As far as GPA is concerned the top 5 are:
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
University of Texas Medical Branch School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
New York University School of Medicine
Baylor College of Medicine
For MCAT:
University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
I found it interesting that there was no school in the top 5 for both (a few were in top 10).
As far as GPA is concerned the top 5 are:
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
University of Texas Medical Branch School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
New York University School of Medicine
Baylor College of Medicine
For MCAT:
University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
I found it interesting that there was no school in the top 5 for both (a few were in top 10).
A good example of why I view MCAT as the much bigger/rarer selector in this process !
You sure these are right? At a glance WashU is the same as Pritzker, above Vandy and the others?
Edit: Nevermind, missed that you said matriculant rather than accepted!
I'm using matriculant scores rather than accepted. No particular reason for it. I'll take a look at accepted scores tho
So using accepted ranges changes things slightly for cGPA, but pretty drastically for MCAT...
Top 5 for cGPA:
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
University of Texas Medical Branch School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
New York University School of Medicine
Stanford University School of Medicine
Top 5 for MCAT:
University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
Stanford University School of Medicine
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania
Top 5 for cGPA:
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
University of Texas Medical Branch School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
New York University School of Medicine
Stanford University School of Medicine
Top 5 for MCAT:
University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
Stanford University School of Medicine
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania
Ross, St. Georges, AUC, AUA, SABA
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The only outlier I have noticed in my search of schools was Johns Hopkins, which boasts a 519 median MCAT And 3.92 median GPA, with a 3.77 to 4.0 spread. I have seen no other school with that narrow a spread and that high of an MCAT. Chicago has a 520 MCAT, but a larger GPA spread with 3.65 as the low. UPenn is even lower at 518 with a 3.66 to 4.0. That's not considering who actually matriculated, which often shows lower GPAs (except in Hopkins' case). Vanderbilt's GPA spread drops to 3.58 to 4.0, and that's a school that actively screens for 3.8 and above.
Out of those, I really had to admit to myself that there was no way on earth that Hopkins would even look at my application...
Out of those, I really had to admit to myself that there was no way on earth that Hopkins would even look at my application...
Harvard? Usually they're pretty identical to Hopkins each year, ~36-37 medians and / ~3.75-4.0 range ?
Noo Harvard goes down to like 3.66 and Hopkins to 3.77 but that's with what I thought- Hopkins is more stat-*****, Harvard is a bit more hollistic reveiw. Or at least that's what I've thought
just checked MSAR, Harvard tenth percentile is 3.74 !Noo Harvard goes down to like 3.66 and Hopkins to 3.77 but that's with what I thought- Hopkins is more stat-*****, Harvard is a bit more hollistic reveiw. Or at least that's what I've thought
This may be sort of a tangent but is something I've been thinking about that I want to get other people's input on. Keep in mind that I'm just a premed student that came up with this as a theory so please don't think I think everything I'm saying is a fact. I'm merely presenting a theory and asking if it has any validity.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/factstablea24-3.pdf
This table shows that there were 507 Asian applicants and 472 accepted for 2 application cycles (what I assume it is but correct me if I'm wrong) that that had a GPA that was 3.8 or higher with a 39-45. Dividing that number by 2 for a rough estimate of how many Asian applicants have these stats per cycle we get about 254 applicants and 236 acceptances. Since schools seek to have diversity for each class they admit, we can assume that each class will admit an x number minimum of Asian applicants. Now I'm not saying that number has to be high, it could even be just 1, but I'm saying it's highly unlikely they won't admit at least 1. If we divide 236 by 20 (for the Top 20 schools) we get 11.8 Asian applicants with these stats admitted per Top 20 school. I understand that calculating it like this would assume that each Asian applicant gets a single acceptance from a single Top 20 school and that many Top 20s accept the same top applicants, but again these schools know that in the end an applicant can only choose 1 school so they will admit more applicants than will matriculate. Also factoring in the fact that many of these applicants would be yield protected from the vast majority of mid to low tiers, is it safe to say having stats in this range as an Asian applicant will close to guarantee a top 20 acceptance (assuming the applicant has checked all the EC boxes but may not have anything really amazing and has no significant red flags)?
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/factstablea24-3.pdf
This table shows that there were 507 Asian applicants and 472 accepted for 2 application cycles (what I assume it is but correct me if I'm wrong) that that had a GPA that was 3.8 or higher with a 39-45. Dividing that number by 2 for a rough estimate of how many Asian applicants have these stats per cycle we get about 254 applicants and 236 acceptances. Since schools seek to have diversity for each class they admit, we can assume that each class will admit an x number minimum of Asian applicants. Now I'm not saying that number has to be high, it could even be just 1, but I'm saying it's highly unlikely they won't admit at least 1. If we divide 236 by 20 (for the Top 20 schools) we get 11.8 Asian applicants with these stats admitted per Top 20 school. I understand that calculating it like this would assume that each Asian applicant gets a single acceptance from a single Top 20 school and that many Top 20s accept the same top applicants, but again these schools know that in the end an applicant can only choose 1 school so they will admit more applicants than will matriculate. Also factoring in the fact that many of these applicants would be yield protected from the vast majority of mid to low tiers, is it safe to say having stats in this range as an Asian applicant will close to guarantee a top 20 acceptance (assuming the applicant has checked all the EC boxes but may not have anything really amazing and has no significant red flags)?
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A few things:
- It's data from three cycles, not two (2013-2014, 2014-2015, and 2015-2016)
- There are many high stats ORM applicants that get multiple top 10/20 admits, and many high stats applicants that get none. (I know both types IRL!)
- Most top 20s have medians at ~36, not 39+, so the pool they draw from for this thought experiment is really several fold larger.
