Which surgical specialty requires most technical skill?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

golfdoctor

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Which surgical specialty do you think requires the most skill in terms of dexterity, hand/eye coordination, etc... What surgeries do you know of that are extremely difficult to perform?

I would give you my opinion but I really don't have a clue on this one.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Which surgical specialty do you think requires the most skill in terms of dexterity, hand/eye coordination, etc... What surgeries do you know of that are extremely difficult to perform?

I would give you my opinion but I really don't have a clue on this one.

Ortho. Hands down.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Does CT requires more technical skills than neurosurgery?
 
Which surgical specialty do you think requires the most skill in terms of dexterity, hand/eye coordination, etc... What surgeries do you know of that are extremely difficult to perform?

ENT. Some of those neck dissections and ear surgeries are pretty crazy.

Some surg onc stuff is pretty difficult - everyone talks about how difficult Whipples can be. Some people love Whipples, some people hate them.

CT surgery, especially peds CT and valve replacements. I haven't had a chance to see one, but neither method for doing an esophagectomy sounds particularly easy. Either way, the idea of doing one would freak me out tremendously.

Vascular, of course, requires good hand-eye coordination.

Peds surgery, especially on neonates/infants. Their anatomy is beautiful - looks like it's from a textbook - but tiny.
 
Neuro in general or peds CT. I would hate to sneeze and kill a neonate :oops:

Ortho takes the most skill with commonplace workshop tools. I mean seriously, what other profession pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to use a tool that a guy at valvoline uses on a daily basis. :laugh:
 
Peds surgery, especially on neonates/infants. Their anatomy is beautiful - looks like it's from a textbook - but tiny.

Word. A part of me still doesn't really believe it's possible.
 
Which surgical specialty do you think requires the most skill in terms of dexterity, hand/eye coordination, etc... What surgeries do you know of that are extremely difficult to perform?

I would give you my opinion but I really don't have a clue on this one.
dermatologic surgery, hands down
 
I like all of the med/premed student responders...

To not sound completely negative, I have to agree with smq123 (and echo what I've said before when this question was asked the last time); each surgical field has its more technically demanding procedures and it depends on your perspective. Some of the advanced laparoscopic stuff I've seen is amazing, and the guys who do it are usually as slick as they come, the neck dissections on some of the cancer cases are crazy, etc...
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I like all of the med/premed student responders...

To not sound completely negative, I have to agree with smq123 (and echo what I've said before when this question was asked the last time); each surgical field has its more technically demanding procedures and it depends on your perspective. Some of the advanced laparoscopic stuff I've seen is amazing, and the guys who do it are usually as slick as they come, the neck dissections on some of the cancer cases are crazy, etc...

Well this IS the medical student forum of the student doctor network.
 
Well this IS the medical student forum of the student doctor network.

Again, I'm not trying to be negative. I know this is the allopathic forum, and I'm not sure this is where a question like this is best answered, if it can be answered at all. I don't know how difficult prostatectomies, parotidectomies, tonsillectomies, total joints or neurosurgical aneurysmal clippings are because I've never done them, and I don't know that there are any people left that have done them all. I was merely commenting that I find it funny how students are saying how difficult something is when they have never done anything other than just watch.

Let me elaborate. If you asked me what car performs the best, I couldn't give you an informed answer despite the fact that I own a sedan and an SUV and race a Porsche GT3. Of the three, I could tell you which performed the best for me, but my wife would give you an entirely different answer. However, I am in no position to evaluate a Ferrari (even though I have sat in the passenger seat for a few laps around the track), the new BMW M3 (even though I've driven the previous model) or a Yugo (something I've never driven or ridden in).

The difficulty of performing surgical procedures is kind of the same. There is no procedure that can only be done by a select few people because the technical difficulty requires such great hand-eye coordination, manual dexterity, etc..., that it would be dangerous for others to perform it; all procedures are merely a matter of knowing the steps of the procedure and repetitive practice. An inguinal hernia repair is a very difficult case when you are taking a med student or intern through it for the first time, but keep hypothesizing...
 
Again, I'm not trying to be negative. I know this is the allopathic forum, and I'm not sure this is where a question like this is best answered, if it can be answered at all. I don't know how difficult prostatectomies, parotidectomies, tonsillectomies, total joints or neurosurgical aneurysmal clippings are because I've never done them, and I don't know that there are any people left that have done them all. I was merely commenting that I find it funny how students are saying how difficult something is when they have never done anything other than just watch.

Let me elaborate. If you asked me what car performs the best, I couldn't give you an informed answer despite the fact that I own a sedan and an SUV and race a Porsche GT3. Of the three, I could tell you which performed the best for me, but my wife would give you an entirely different answer. However, I am in no position to evaluate a Ferrari (even though I have sat in the passenger seat for a few laps around the track), the new BMW M3 (even though I've driven the previous model) or a Yugo (something I've never driven or ridden in).

The difficulty of performing surgical procedures is kind of the same. There is no procedure that can only be done by a select few people because the technical difficulty requires such great hand-eye coordination, manual dexterity, etc..., that it would be dangerous for others to perform it; all procedures are merely a matter of knowing the steps of the procedure and repetitive practice. An inguinal hernia repair is a very difficult case when you are taking a med student or intern through it for the first time, but keep hypothesizing...
dude, I think you are taking this thread WAAAYYY too seriously :eek:
 
dude, I think you are taking this thread WAAAYYY too seriously :eek:

Did you get bored halfway through the post or just have trouble following it or what? I think it's pretty clearly and concisely written and I understand his point: the question in the original post is unanswerable really, not because it's a subjective thing, but because it has no answer. Surgery is surgery, each subspecialty has a number of easier procedures and a number of technically demanding procedures.
 
dude, I think you are taking this thread WAAAYYY too seriously :eek:

Maybe. But I think it's probably frustrating for a surgery resident to read threads like this, because it implies that some fields of surgery are harder than others. And that's not really a fair assessment - each one has its perks, and each one has its challenges. There is no one specialty that's necessarily more difficult than others, and there are a lot of specialties that require excellent hand-eye coordination.
 
Again, I'm not trying to be negative. I know this is the allopathic forum, and I'm not sure this is where a question like this is best answered, if it can be answered at all. I don't know how difficult prostatectomies, parotidectomies, tonsillectomies, total joints or neurosurgical aneurysmal clippings are because I've never done them, and I don't know that there are any people left that have done them all. I was merely commenting that I find it funny how students are saying how difficult something is when they have never done anything other than just watch.

Let me elaborate. If you asked me what car performs the best, I couldn't give you an informed answer despite the fact that I own a sedan and an SUV and race a Porsche GT3. Of the three, I could tell you which performed the best for me, but my wife would give you an entirely different answer. However, I am in no position to evaluate a Ferrari (even though I have sat in the passenger seat for a few laps around the track), the new BMW M3 (even though I've driven the previous model) or a Yugo (something I've never driven or ridden in).

The difficulty of performing surgical procedures is kind of the same. There is no procedure that can only be done by a select few people because the technical difficulty requires such great hand-eye coordination, manual dexterity, etc..., that it would be dangerous for others to perform it; all procedures are merely a matter of knowing the steps of the procedure and repetitive practice. An inguinal hernia repair is a very difficult case when you are taking a med student or intern through it for the first time, but keep hypothesizing...
I am pretty sure any surgeon would agree that an inguinal hernia repair does not compare to vascular repair of a neonate. If you are too stupid to reason these kind of things out, I feel sorry for your patients.
 
Did you get bored halfway through the post or just have trouble following it or what? I think it's pretty clearly and concisely written and I understand his point: the question in the original post is unanswerable really, not because it's a subjective thing, but because it has no answer. Surgery is surgery, each subspecialty has a number of easier procedures and a number of technically demanding procedures.
Actually, that wasn't his point. His point was that unless you've tried them all, you can't decide which is the most difficult.
 
dude, I think you are taking this thread WAAAYYY too seriously :eek:

As I said, I was merely making an observation that a bunch of people were making comments about something they have never done. Here is another one on which you may feel you can comment; what does it feel like to walk on the surface of Mars? Again, I'm wasn't taking it too seriously, just making an observation and then giving some justification for why I made my statement. I find it interesting to see what you guys think is the most difficult procedure, particularly when those responding give the rationale for their opinions.

Blesbok said:
I am pretty sure any surgeon would agree that an inguinal hernia repair does not compare to vascular repair of a neonate. If you are too stupid to reason these kind of things out, I feel sorry for your patients.
I agree; an inguinal hernia is pretty easy when I'm doing it myself, but not so easy when I am teaching it to someone (like the posters on this thread) who has never done it before. My point is that it is all a matter of perspective, and that no one who had commented actually had the perspective to make an informed statement.

smq123 said:
But I think it's probably frustrating for a surgery resident to read threads like this, because it implies that some fields of surgery are harder than others. And that's not really a fair assessment - each one has its perks, and each one has its challenges. There is no one specialty that's necessarily more difficult than others, and there are a lot of specialties that require excellent hand-eye coordination.
Truthfully, I could care less what everyone here thinks is the most difficult. I'm a surgeon; the opinions of medical students can't and don't hurt my ego (no offense), especially when it comes to the technical aspects of surgery. I'm comfortable enough with the skills that I have and with the knowledge that I will get even better as I progress through my training that I will be able to do whatever procedures end up in my scope of practice, no matter how technically demanding or "easy," and I won't base my practice on what other people think are the "difficult procedures" in order to make myself appear bad@$$. If people here think ophtho is tough, I agree. Same with neurosurgery, ortho (well, not really ;)), urology, plastics, ENT or any other surgical subspecialty you can name, because they all have procedures that are tough. I just don't know (and I don't think there is a person alive who does) which is the hardest, and I don't think you would get a consensus even if you had a bunch of people who did them all, as there is person-to-person variabilty that comes into the equation as well.
VoiceofReason said:
I understand his point: the question in the original post is unanswerable really, not because it's a subjective thing, but because it has no answer. Surgery is surgery, each subspecialty has a number of easier procedures and a number of technically demanding procedures.
TheProwler said:
Actually, that wasn't his point. His point was that unless you've tried them all, you can't decide which is the most difficult.

You are both right. Because there is no one who has tried them all, the question can't be answered.
 
I haven't had a chance to see one, but neither method for doing an esophagectomy sounds particularly easy.

There are actually three standard ways. :)

Off-pump bypass surgery sounds challenging to me.

Agreed...what's tough is when the heart is still beating as you're trying to throw sutures.

SocialistMD makes some excellent points.
 
More speculation from a student, but ASIDE from the input already given from those who know more than I, it is making me wonder about an analogy. Some professional violinists do some really incredibly technical things with their playing, and everyone goes, "Ooo!" and "Ahh!" and it is pretty incredible. Yet THEY will turn around to the tuba player and be in awe that the person can play with such control so easily.

From the outside, you may think that's a riot - to compare the two, because obviously violin looks way more challenging (and I sure think it is...) but the truth is a really top tuba player has mastered a pretty crude beast and can control it in an awesome way. (I'm talking about pro levels here - not your high school or college band stuff...)

So - maybe the violin is really maximally hard for some people but for others the tuba is or the oboe or whatever. I guess I made my goofy point. :oops:
 
More speculation from a student, but ASIDE from the input already given from those who know more than I, it is making me wonder about an analogy. Some professional violinists do some really incredibly technical things with their playing, and everyone goes, "Ooo!" and "Ahh!" and it is pretty incredible. Yet THEY will turn around to the tuba player and be in awe that the person can play with such control so easily.

From the outside, you may think that's a riot - to compare the two, because obviously violin looks way more challenging (and I sure think it is...) but the truth is a really top tuba player has mastered a pretty crude beast and can control it in an awesome way. (I'm talking about pro levels here - not your high school or college band stuff...)

So - maybe the violin is really maximally hard for some people but for others the tuba is or the oboe or whatever. I guess I made my goofy point. :oops:

To go a little further with this analogy... some of the most impressive stuff from the outside is actually relatively easy when you know the beast. If a violinist wants to impress people, he can play a bunch of scales and arpeggios really really fast and then throw in some double stops. Everyone will crap themselves. However, stuff like Heifetz throwing down an amazing up bow staccato in Dinicu's Hora Staccato... might not be as impressive to your average listener.
 
NSGY: driving lateral mass screws into cervical vertebrae of children, with the cord a few mm in one direction and the vertebral artery a few mm in the other: not easy.

Opthalmology: suturing someone's eyeball, which is more or less like saran wrap, with thread thinner than your hair: not easy.

CT: suturing a tiny artery onto another tiny artery on an off-pump beating heart: not easy.

Plastics: manipulating someone's facial skin with a very sharp knife without turning them into a massive uggo: not easy

I think the point here is that surgery, generally speaking, is technically challenging. Not that most people can't master it with enough practice and motivation, but nonetheless, challenging.

Of course, the really hard part is not peeing, eating, or sitting down for 14 hours straight. So for those criteria, I think neurosurgery and perhaps transplant win.

edit: apparently i'm not allowed to refer to something as "tiny-(synonym with donkey)" in allo anymore. Have we moved to Russia?
 
Of course, the really hard part is not peeing, eating, or sitting down for 14 hours straight. So for those criteria, I think neurosurgery and perhaps transplant win.

I don't think that's necessarily the hardest part. Sure, stamina is important, but for many people the most "difficult" part of the case is the part where a mistake could potentially be irrecoverable.
 
Top