Who to ask for eLORs?

[BovineBeauty]

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I might be just a little excited about my first VMCAS cycle...I have a few different options as far as eLORs are concerned and I would appreciate some outside opinions.

My first choice is NCSU as I'm IS but they only want 3 eLORs. Of course they'll read how ever many you have depending on the other schools you applied to, but I've heard they get annoyed at more than 4 letters.
I'd also like to apply to Iowa (up to six), UPenn, and possibly Minnesota and Ohio depending on how much money I have. I would also like to apply to the DVM/PhD at NCSU and UPenn as I'm interested in research and teaching. (PhD would be in infectious disease or immunology in food animals, most likely dairy cattle.)

Here are my options - some of them are no-brainers but I'd like some outside opinions none the less.

• SA/Exotic/Wildlife vet I've been working for since I was 16 (3,200 hrs under him)
• Dairy vet (well known by the NCSU faculty) - wrote me a letter for something else but I haven't worked with him very much
• Genetics professor, also helped with her swine research last summer. She's now Undergraduate Teaching Coordinator for the Animal Science Department and she asked me to TA her class.
• Postdoc I've been helping with dairy research for over a year (She has a PhD, no DVM but her research is under faculty at the CVM)
• Pharmacology professor at the CVM who I'm doing my honors research with (I know for sure he's on admissions)
• SA Orthopedic surgeon/professor at the CVM who I'm doing a second project under (I know for sure he's not on admissions but does have a lot of pull)
• Undegrad academic adviser who's on a food animal scholars committee

There are a few others who would probably write me a nice LOR but I don't think they would hold as much weight on my application. I am honestly struggling to decide between the ones I have listed!

Thoughts??

 

[EastCoast94]

hmm, for mine I'm basically getting the 3 people I can guarantee will write me a good one. If you ask one person and they say no, that means they have nothing nice to say about you, and that's okay! Better you find out now instead of have them write one (happened to me just last week. It sucked but you get over it pretty quick) .

I would just go with the 3-4 people you for SURE know will write you a nice letter. Like if you have any doubt, don't ask them for one. lol.

 

[BovineBeauty]

hmm, for mine I'm basically getting the 3 people I can guarantee will write me a good one. If you ask one person and they say no, that means they have nothing nice to say about you, and that's okay! Better you find out now instead of have them write one (happened to me just last week. It sucked but you get over it pretty quick) .

I would just go with the 3-4 people you for SURE know will write you a nice letter. Like if you have any doubt, don't ask them for one. lol.

Obviously I haven't asked them if they are able to write strong LORs for me, but I'm fairly confident all of these would say "absolutely" when I do end up asking! That's why I'm so torn!

 

[EastCoast94]

Obviously I haven't asked them if they are able to write strong LORs for me, but I'm fairly confident all of these would say "absolutely" when I do end up asking! That's why I'm so torn!

Maybe which ever ones you would appreciate having most out of all of them? Like just a personal belief of which ones you would be happiest with?

 

[vetmedhead]

I would encourage you to take a slightly different approach to your eLORs. I think people get overly concerned with who their recommenders know and where those recommenders may/may not have influence - but I think it's important to take a look at those people individually and what they can say about you. I know I tailored who I asked to write my eLORs around what aspects of myself I wanted to be demonstrated in those letters. I asked people who could speak to things that I thought weren't represented as well on my application (mostly soft skills). I'm not saying to not be strategic with your recommenders, but I think you should be thinking of a different type of strategy, if that makes sense.

For example, if your GPA was a sore spot on your application, you could consider asking more professors to write eLORS, as they could potentially speak to your academic abilities. I personally had eLORS from a veterinarian I had worked with for several years (could speak to my knowledge of the profession, dedication, growth, etc.), a former boss (who could speak to my people skills), and a current professor (who spoke more specifically about my passion for learning).

I would look for people who know you well and who believe 100% that you belong in this profession. It also doesn't hurt to talk to them about why you're asking them specifically for a letter (most people are flattered to be asked anyway). I talked to every recommender and told them what aspects of myself I thought they could testify to in their letters - in other words, why I thought they were a good person to write a letter for me.

Also, aside from the above, look at what the schools themselves ask for in eLORs. Some require a certain number of DVMs to write your letters, while others have more stringent requirements (e.g. one from a PhD, one from a DVM, one from an advisor). Also, with NCSU specifically, on the supplemental application they want you to give them the contact information of a DVM (I think a DVM specifically, though it may be a DVM or a PhD) that you've worked with but who hasn't written you an eLOR, so keep that in mind as well.

Best of luck in your application and with getting eLORs - I know I agonized over eLORs specifically during this application cycle.

 

[Cephal0pod]

My advice would be to go with the ones who know you best, and will be able to write you the most enthusiastic, detailed letters. That may or may not be the 3 or 4 with the most prestigious titles. An okay letter is still only an okay letter, even if it was from the Supreme Commander Veterinarian of the Universe. You want people who are rooting for you big time and believe strongly in your ability to do well in veterinary school/be a great veterinarian. Focus more on that.

 

[pp9]

My advice would be to go with the ones who know you best, and will be able to write you the most enthusiastic, detailed letters. That may or may not be the 3 or 4 with the most prestigious titles. An okay letter is still only an okay letter, even if it was from the Supreme Commander Veterinarian of the Universe. You want people who are rooting for you big time and believe strongly in your ability to do well in veterinary school/be a great veterinarian. Focus more on that.

I heard she reuses letters anyways.

 

[BrownSwissCows]

You're probably going to get a wide variety of responses, but when I looked at your list there was one that really stood out as a must ask and one that might not be the best choice.

Definitely ask the vet you've been working for since you were 16. Really a no brainer, he's going to know you the best and could really speak to your growth.

I would say the internationally renown dairy vet might not be the best choice. It doesn't sound like he knows you too well vs some of the other options you have. It's tempting to want to ride his coat tails, but remember it's an app about you. I know there was someone this year who got rejected by Minnesota and they had the head vet of Belmont Racetrack who was a Minnesota grad write them an eLOR. So having a big name doesn't necessarily make it a shoo in, it's really what they say about you that counts.

It might also not be the wisest to count on knowing so and so is on admissions. Not sure what their internal policy would be, but it wouldn't be surprising if they had to recuse themselves from making decisions on your app because they wrote the eLOR.

 

[Minnerbelle]

For your research, try to have the PI actually sign the LOR with input from the postdoc you work with (even if it means postdoc writes a draft and sends it to the PI who reviews it and sends it in with his/her name on it)


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[BovineBeauty]

I heard she reuses letters anyways.

Dying

It might also not be the wisest to count on knowing so and so is on admissions. Not sure what their internal policy would be, but it wouldn't be surprising if they had to recuse themselves from making decisions on your app because they wrote the eLOR.

Okay. I obviously need to calm down a little.
But that was another reason why I put the fact that he's on admissions. I've had people tell me it's a no brainier to ask him since he's a PI at the CVM but at the same time I know for sure that he would not be allowed to have any say in my admissions decision if he 1) knows anything about my application other than I'm applying this cycle or 2) if he writes me an eLOR. But then I've had others tell me that it's better to have him write me an eLOR because anyone who reviews my application does know him. And he would definitely write me a good letter - he specifically asked me to work in his lab.

I'm totally agonizing over this whole process. SA vet is definitely in, dairy vet is definitely out. Dairy vet I was on the fence about.

 

[pp9]

Dying



Okay. I obviously need to calm down a little.
But that was another reason why I put the fact that he's on admissions. I've had people tell me it's a no brainier to ask him since he's a PI at the CVM but at the same time I know for sure that he would not be allowed to have any say in my admissions decision if he 1) knows anything about my application other than I'm applying this cycle or 2) if he writes me an eLOR. But then I've had others tell me that it's better to have him write me an eLOR because anyone who reviews my application does know him. And he would definitely write me a good letter - he specifically asked me to work in his lab.

I'm totally agonizing over this whole process. SA vet is definitely in, dairy vet is definitely out. Dairy vet I was on the fence about.

In the same way that adcom members won't (that I know of) proofread your essays for you, they may decline to write you a letter based on their position, not because they don't want to write you one. People aren't even supposed to call up a school and put in a good word outside of writing a letter. I would suspect this person has to remain unbiased throughout the application process, but it's best to ask him about it before you stress yourself out too much.

 

[superkelpie]

In the same way that adcom members won't (that I know of) proofread your essays for you, they may decline to write you a letter based on their position, not because they don't want to write you one. People aren't even supposed to call up a school and put in a good word outside of writing a letter. I would suspect this person has to remain unbiased throughout the application process, but it's best to ask him about it before you stress yourself out too much.

This isn't always true--when I went on a tour at Penn the spring before my application cycle, the guy who runs admissions (Rob) offered to proofread drafts of my PS in the summer. I didn't end up applying to Penn, but he passed on contact info in case I wanted to take advantage of this (and I definitely would have had I applied to Penn)!

Good advice given all around here--whether or not someone is on the admissions committee or a big name (or even a grad of that school), the most important thing is how well they know you and how willing they will be to boast about you! I agree that each of your eLORs should reflect a different side of your app--I would shoot for one professor, your PI (co-written with your postdoc), and a vet, since you seem to have strong candidates for all 3.

 

[BirdsinMyHouse]

Whoever can write you a letter that says more than just the standard "showed up, nice person" letter. You want someone who is able to write a letter that shows they know you well and can attest to your interest in the profession 🙂

 

[Osudairy]

This isn't always true--when I went on a tour at Penn the spring before my application cycle, the guy who runs admissions (Rob) offered to proofread drafts of my PS in the summer. I didn't end up applying to Penn, but he passed on contact info in case I wanted to take advantage of this (and I definitely would have had I applied to Penn)!

Good advice given all around here--whether or not someone is on the admissions committee or a big name (or even a grad of that school), the most important thing is how well they know you and how willing they will be to boast about you! I agree that each of your eLORs should reflect a different side of your app--I would shoot for one professor, your PI (co-written with your postdoc), and a vet, since you seem to have strong candidates for all 3.

Same. A professor I came to know very well in grad school was on adcom and she proofread my PS.

 

[pp9]

This isn't always true--when I went on a tour at Penn the spring before my application cycle, the guy who runs admissions (Rob) offered to proofread drafts of my PS in the summer. I didn't end up applying to Penn, but he passed on contact info in case I wanted to take advantage of this (and I definitely would have had I applied to Penn)!

Good advice given all around here--whether or not someone is on the admissions committee or a big name (or even a grad of that school), the most important thing is how well they know you and how willing they will be to boast about you! I agree that each of your eLORs should reflect a different side of your app--I would shoot for one professor, your PI (co-written with your postdoc), and a vet, since you seem to have strong candidates for all 3.

Probably depends on the school or the individual, then.

 

[Osudairy]

Probably depends on the school or the individual, then.

Right. OSU tends to be pretty lax about it.

 

[BishopFaust]

I'm reviving this old thread instead of making a new one - hope that's okay!
I requested an eLOR from the head/coordinator of a local rescue group (501 c) whom I've worked with rescuing many cats and dogs - let's call her Sherry. Sherry has a MS in English and is a great writer, so I'm glad to receive a glowing recommendation from her!
Quick backstory:
Last year one of Sherry's rescues needed to be hospitalized at a local Specialty group/ER. Unfortunately the pet died - which she completely appreciates can happen when a pet is acutely ill - but the death was under very strange, neglectful, circumstances. After the ER neglectfully refused to provide any medical records to Sherry so she filed a complaint with the VMB. This complaint did not really get anywhere significant, so now Sherry is considering a lawsuit. It is worth mentioning that this ER/Specialty group has some strange practices and many other pet owners have also filed complaints with VMB against this location.

SO my question is - would any of this hold any bearing on her qualities as an evaluator? I'm worried that she comes across as a 'crazy rescue lady' topically, but all of this is genuine and she is trying to hold the hospital accountable to prevent future mistakes in care.

 

[genny]

I'm reviving this old thread instead of making a new one - hope that's okay!
I requested an eLOR from the head/coordinator of a local rescue group (501 c) whom I've worked with rescuing many cats and dogs - let's call her Sherry. Sherry has a MS in English and is a great writer, so I'm glad to receive a glowing recommendation from her!
Quick backstory:
Last year one of Sherry's rescues needed to be hospitalized at a local Specialty group/ER. Unfortunately the pet died - which she completely appreciates can happen when a pet is acutely ill - but the death was under very strange, neglectful, circumstances. After the ER neglectfully refused to provide any medical records to Sherry so she filed a complaint with the VMB. This complaint did not really get anywhere significant, so now Sherry is considering a lawsuit. It is worth mentioning that this ER/Specialty group has some strange practices and many other pet owners have also filed complaints with VMB against this location.

SO my question is - would any of this hold any bearing on her qualities as an evaluator? I'm worried that she comes across as a 'crazy rescue lady' topically, but all of this is genuine and she is trying to hold the hospital accountable to prevent future mistakes in care.

Has Sherry had anyone who worked with her in the past go on to vet school? I doubt OOS schools would know anything about her drama, so wouldn't affect your chances there. But if you have an IS that's located close to the rescue, there might be some gossip about it.

 

[twelvetigers]

Any negative effects would be a result of one of the eLOR readers personally knowing about the lawsuit or the situation. And, honestly, if someone knows the letter writer, they should still just take the letter itself at face value and leave their personal opinions about the person out of it. Maybe it's not that easy, but yanno.

I think I would still ask, especially if the lawsuit wasn't a BIG DEAL locally - like what are the odds that a bunch of people know about it?

 

[BishopFaust]

@twelvetigers &@genny - thank you! It is unlikely anyone will hear about this, but I know the world of veterinary medicine is 'small'. Good to know that eLORs should be generally accepted at face value.