Who's choosing MGH over BWH or vise versa, let the games begin!

[ucla2usc]

It seems like most peole interviewing at one is also interviewing at the other...so who is ranking MGH over BWH or vise versa? Why?
I personally couldn't decided between these two...

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[PickyBicky]

It seems like most peole interviewing at one is also interviewing at the other...so who is ranking MGH over BWH or vise versa? Why?
I personally couldn't decided between these two...

Allright, I need to hear from DukeBlue on this one.....I still don't understand your logic. 'Course I'm biased.

-PB

 

[DrHeartMD]

im having a tough time deciding too...right now I like MGH more, mainly cuz I liked the feel of the program...it feels rigorous...the call schedules dont really matter too much to me, the biggest contending factor is the multihospital system which brigham has...to be honest I cant decide...id love to hear other people chime in...i believe ive considered everything but id love to hear others opinions to see if maybe a different spin will change my views

 

[Bobblehead]

the call schedules dont really matter too much to me, the biggest contending factor is the multihospital system which brigham has

For what it's worth, I would carefully consider why the call schedule, by which you will live (and die), doesn't matter to you. Something that sounds like it could be tolerable on paper can easily turn into something intolerable once you're living it, particularly in January or February when you'll be going to work and leaving work when it's dark.

Travelling between hospitals is never fun, but as long as you don't need to travel between two in one day it's managable.

 

[DrHeartMD]

call schedule isnt that important because many programs are still in flux...plust I am not one who cares so greatly about how long unless its really out of the norm (i.e. working like 40 hours straight or something like that)...otherwise im good...I am much more worried about how happy these people are in general, the merits, and the reputation these two carry both in medical circles and to the lay public...basically locationally no big advantage with either as they are like 15 mins away from each other...really more concerned about the programs and their respective merits...so im more interested in that...thanks

 

[Sierra]

In looking through past posts, this question always seems to pop up! I think that it shows that it's probably a personal and not obvious choice. By the way, has anyone heard anything from either of these 2 since after the interview? Anyway, so here are my thoughts...

MGH first...I think one thing that will not change at MGH (at least in the near future) is that interns admit without their resident (although there is a teaching resident covering several teams who discusses admissions with them). It seems to me that autonomy is a key feature at the MGH and manifests itself in the way that call is designed. My sense is that the residents are happy to be there, largely because they are proud to be at a place with so much tradition and excellence. To the lay public, MGH might have a stronger reputation possibly because it is an older institution. It might also be an overall bigger and possibly stronger (although I'm probably splitting hairs here) hospital than the Brigham, although I certainly don't think that this is true of the medicine department itself. From speaking to residents and medical students, I also gather that MGH might have a bit more of a formal feel to it than the Brigham.

At the Brigham, I think that autonomy is given perhaps a bit more gradually and at the pace that one is able to accept it. Residents seemed very happy here. The support of their peers and administration and the tight-knit community were always amongst the things cited by residents when I asked them about what they liked at the Brigham. It was a somewhat different answer than the MGH residents gave, perhaps emphasizing a slightly different focus. I think the reputation of Brigham IM is just as high as that of MGH in academic circles. Some say that the Brigham is more difficult to get accepted to, so it might even have a better reputation.

But, for these 2 institutions, selecting on reputation is probably not a great idea because they both are so well reputed. Similarly, I feel that both places offer exceptional training. The subjective feel of the 2 places, as soft as that is, to me seemed substantially different, however. I'm leaning towards one, but I've been flip-flopping, so I won't say which yet (but maybe you can guess 🙂 ). In the end, I'd be psyched to be accepted by either!

 

[DrHeartMD]

I loved the way the brigham program is set up, but still I wonder what most people associate with when they think of "harvard." Afterall, to the laypublic if you say im at massachusetts general or the brigham they may not know it, but when you say "harvard" that connotes something in their mind...

oh what the hell am I saying, I would give up a [non essential] body part to be accepted at either =)

still ranking must be done so I wish for more opinions...keep em coming...

 

[PickyBicky]

I loved the way the brigham program is set up, but still I wonder what most people associate with when they think of "harvard." Afterall, to the laypublic if you say im at massachusetts general or the brigham they may not know it, but when you say "harvard" that connotes something in their mind...

oh what the hell am I saying, I would give up a [non essential] body part to be accepted at either =)

still ranking must be done so I wish for more opinions...keep em coming...

This isn't a cut or a dis....I'm just curious. Does it really matter that much to you to be trained at a Harvard Hospital? If so, why? I would agree, MGH and BW are top IM programs, but there are clearly others that are comparable. So again, why Harvard?

-PB

 

[souljah1]

A close friend of mine had a mentor that said "People who care more about what patients think of them go into private practice. People who care more about what their colleagues think of them go into academics". Of course, it is a generalization - but I do think there is a little truth to that. Patients care if you are a good doctor. They care if you take the time to connect, genuinely care about their concerns, and make good decisions. Your colleagues will care more about where you trained - so if that is more important to you, then you can't go wrong with either. The lay public think lots of things that ultimately don't matter. The lay public, when it comes to medicine, is ignorant. The idea that b/c my doctor went to Harvard means he is a better clinician is ignorant. Taking the ignorant's views into consideration...well, it is ignorant. MGH and BWH are great programs to train b/c you'll see everything from bread-and-butter medicine to quaternary care - and you'll great great teaching while doing so. They are great b/c they put you in a class of residents who match incredibly well when it comes time for fellowship. The lay public doesn't even know what the hell a fellow is. They are great if you want to live in Boston.

Bottom line - can't lose with either -- and it doesn't matter two s-h-i-t-s if a person recognizes that one has a stronger connection to Harvard. You don't want to be that type of "mass-hole" anyway.

 

[DrHeartMD]

not being arrogant...i really dont think I am...but for many personal reasons in the past I have settled for "non name brand" schools and have spent my life always being asked over and over again about what school I went to (and always having to explain where it is located or validating it somehow...even during interviews)...this has followed me up til now, when I have a chance to break free, and I want to go somewhere that garners instant recognition so that I won't have to do that anymore (call it an inferiority complex if you will, I will admit to it)...thus I would hate to be somewhere where when I go to a party, and say "im at xyz" and people ask me "where is that"...with that said, who knows if I will get in...but I am still looking for that for at least one stage of training...I have no belief these places will train me any better than any other good program out there...or that these will be better doctors, but sometimes for our own foolish pride, we want something...that aside, as a practical matter, having people who can place you somewhere for fellowship is important to...anyway...i hope that explains the reason...sorry if it came out the wrong way...i definitely wont be a mass-hole if i got in...just someone who would finally feel like they got some recognition for doing well in school...

 

[14022]

not being arrogant...i really dont think I am...but for many personal reasons in the past I have settled for "non name brand" schools and have spent my life always being asked over and over again about what school I went to (and always having to explain where it is located or validating it somehow...even during interviews)...this has followed me up til now, when I have a chance to break free, and I want to go somewhere that garners instant recognition so that I won't have to do that anymore (call it an inferiority complex if you will, I will admit to it)...thus I would hate to be somewhere where when I go to a party, and say "im at xyz" and people ask me "where is that"...

Well guess what....outside of the northeast, if you say that you worked at Brigham and Women's Hospital or Dana-Farber Institute or maybe even Mass General Hospital, the layperson (and some health professionals as well) still will not have any idea where you work. Sure saying Harvard will get you the recognition, but you can do that by going to Beth Israel as well. So I think this is a pretty foolish way to look at residency programs.

We are very similar in the sense that I went to a college and medical school that are far from prestigious. Apparently we both worked hard and got interviews at many of the "big name" programs. I have ranked many of these places much lower than other lesser known places that I like much better. I strongly believe that the person, not the institution, determines your future success. Happiness in the program will allow you to thrive and make the potential for success even greater. This should be obvious to you since you are interviewing at these great programs with applicants that did go to prestigous colleges and medical schools, and you have as much of a shot to get into these programs as they do. So I encourage you to choose a program based on where you think you will be happy rather than what some stranger at a party will think of you ten years from now when you tell them where you trained. In the past you have chosen your education based on happiness and it has worked for you so far. Why change your priorities now?

 

[PickyBicky]

not being arrogant...i really dont think I am...but for many personal reasons in the past I have settled for "non name brand" schools and have spent my life always being asked over and over again about what school I went to (and always having to explain where it is located or validating it somehow...even during interviews)...this has followed me up til now, when I have a chance to break free, and I want to go somewhere that garners instant recognition so that I won't have to do that anymore (call it an inferiority complex if you will, I will admit to it)...thus I would hate to be somewhere where when I go to a party, and say "im at xyz" and people ask me "where is that"...with that said, who knows if I will get in...but I am still looking for that for at least one stage of training...I have no belief these places will train me any better than any other good program out there...or that these will be better doctors, but sometimes for our own foolish pride, we want something...that aside, as a practical matter, having people who can place you somewhere for fellowship is important to...anyway...i hope that explains the reason...sorry if it came out the wrong way...i definitely wont be a mass-hole if i got in...just someone who would finally feel like they got some recognition for doing well in school...

Fair enough. Thanks for responding. Like I said, I was just curious. Best of luck achieving your goal.

-PB

 

[ucla2usc]

If you want to go into academics, it does matter....the more prestigious the IM residency, the better your chance at a prestigious the fellowship, and the more likely you are going to be in a place w/ people who know how to help you set up your grants. Other academics will respect the name of your institution, and you will be taken more seriously coming from MGH than a lesser known place.

If you want great clinical training, I think it's more variable...however, I do believe that you will learn to be a faster runner if you are training with faster runners. Clearly the prestigious places have faster runners in their housestaff and faculty because the positions are so competitive.

With all that, I think all of the top 20 or so are compariable and differ mostly on personal taste than substance. I do believe that the very top places, MGH, BWH, UCSF, and JHU have something special to offer, it's pretty awesome to train with the brightest housestaff and faculty. But you can probably be just as good as or better if you are choosing other solid institutions that don't carry all the hype (like University of Chicago, Columbia or UCSD for example). Clearly, like anything else, the individual is the most important factor, and people can suck at the elite places and be amazing at the lesser known places.


This thread was originally started to compare BWH and MGH, which I think are equals in reputation and location, but very very different in philosophy. And I think many programs can be grouped into into more Brigham like (suportive) like or more MGH like (hardcore)....so hopefully the debate is worthy.

 

[coldfeet]

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