MD Why am I not getting interviews?

[medstudentapp]

School: US News Top 20 school, private
GPA: 3.91
MCAT: 36
Reach Schools applied to: Harvard, Stanford, JHU, Yale, Duke, UCSF, Pritzker, UPenn, Columbia

Ive gotten rejected to more than half of these schools (filled out secondaries for all), and am still waiting to hear back on some. Why am I not getting interview to these schools, apart from the fact that these are very tough.

My app is mainly focused on my research. I have worked for 3 years in the lab of a "big name" PI. Throughout my time, I have landed co-authors on 2 publications: in Cell and Cancer Cell (impact factors 33 and 23, respectively). I have done my share of volunteering, shadowing, had 1 leadership position, etc. My essays were outstanding. I wrote about how my research and disease in my family members both inspired me to pursue a career in medicine. I assume my LORs were good.

I have been accepted in my state medical school. Just curious why I have not been given the chance to interview at the top schools.

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[toogoofy]

I don't know why you're not getting interviews, but I think you have to give a more detailed description of your application for others to figure out what might've gone wrong. Something like whats described in Wedgedawg's stickie.

Just my 2¢

 

[GrapesofRath]

The schools you apply to get way way too many applicants with 74+ LizzyM scores and strong research experiences for the limited number of seats in their classes. Amongst that pool of extremely qualified applicants, who gets selected for the interview and acceptance pile is often determined by the non academic non research qualifications. For those schools where you havent gotten selected for an II, you simply lost out to absolutely fierce competition in those non academic non research parts of your application.

Ultimately there is no shame in that at all, you still get to be a doctor at an MD program, this as much as anything just highlights the brutal competitiveness of top medical schools for spots in their class. There are plenty of people with 74+ LizzyM scores who get shut out completely from top 20 schools. That's just how it has to go unfortunately. The only thing I can say is if your research experience is that strong and you havent generated a single II out of 9 top 20 programs, the non academic parts of your application(ie volunteering, leadership, essays, LORs) probably werent seen as top notch to those top 20 schools as you might perceive them to be.

 

[Goro]

This is a hard one to answer! I'm surprised that you haven't received any love.

Some possibilities:
Poor essays (you might think they're outstanding, but Adcom screeners may not)
Poor LORs
"I have done my share of volunteering, shadowing" (maybe it's not enough compared to the people you're competing against??)
Your research credentials are impeccable, so it can't be that.


It may simply be that the people who got IIs at these schools have better apps. This is not an easy process, given so many qualified people (like you).

School: US News Top 20 school, private
GPA: 3.91
MCAT: 36
Reach Schools applied to: Harvard, Stanford, JHU, Yale, Duke, UCSF, Pritzker, UPenn, Columbia

Ive gotten rejected to more than half of these schools (filled out secondaries for all), and am still waiting to hear back on some. Why am I not getting interview to these schools, apart from the fact that these are very tough.

My app is mainly focused on my research. I have worked for 3 years in the lab of a "big name" PI. Throughout my time, I have landed co-authors on 2 publications: in Cell and Cancer Cell (impact factors 33 and 23, respectively). I have done my share of volunteering, shadowing, had 1 leadership position, etc. My essays were outstanding. I wrote about how my research and disease in my family members both inspired me to pursue a career in medicine. I assume my LORs were good.

I have been accepted in my state medical school. Just curious why I have not been given the chance to interview at the top schools.

 

[texan2414]

School: US News Top 20 school, private
GPA: 3.91
MCAT: 36
Reach Schools applied to: Harvard, Stanford, JHU, Yale, Duke, UCSF, Pritzker, UPenn, Columbia

Ive gotten rejected to more than half of these schools (filled out secondaries for all), and am still waiting to hear back on some. Why am I not getting interview to these schools, apart from the fact that these are very tough.

My app is mainly focused on my research. I have worked for 3 years in the lab of a "big name" PI. Throughout my time, I have landed co-authors on 2 publications: in Cell and Cancer Cell (impact factors 33 and 23, respectively). I have done my share of volunteering, shadowing, had 1 leadership position, etc. My essays were outstanding. I wrote about how my research and disease in my family members both inspired me to pursue a career in medicine. I assume my LORs were good.

I have been accepted in my state medical school. Just curious why I have not been given the chance to interview at the top schools.

This is why you aren't getting interviews!!
You tailored your application as a PhD prospective candidate, not an MD.

To be really honest with you, research can serve as a motivation for medicine yes, but if that's the only thing in your PS, I would question your motivation - it should come from a number of factors including volunteering (clinical and non-clinical), shadowing exposure, and altruistic service.

Also as @Goro mentioned, you may not have enough ECs as compared to other applicants.

 

[Doug Underhill]

I haven't gotten any IIs from those schools either despite having similar stats and equal/more impressive ECs. They are looking for something more than 3.7+/ 36+ / publication.

 

[piii]

Your ECs are pretty average, especially considering the competition at the schools you applied to. Strong research needs to be balanced with strong clinical work to show you want to be a clinician over a researcher. I have a similar research background to yours and I kept getting "why not PhD?" from coworkers earlier on in my research years, so I sought to improve my focus on the clinic.

 

[medstudentapp]

When you say similar research background what does that mean specifically? I doubt many people work with a super top name in the field and published twice in two top-impact journals (Cell Press, Nature, Science),,

 

[Noctámbulo]

In addition to the above-- Is English your first language? I see several (albeit minor) errors in your original post. That may have reflected in your application to a larger extent.

 

[7331poas]

When you say similar research background what does that mean specifically? I doubt many people work with a super top name in the field and published twice in two top-impact journals (Cell Press, Nature, Science),,

You dont think there are 300 in the entire US in your application cycle? Also there is way more to an app than just research.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

When you say similar research background what does that mean specifically? I doubt many people work with a super top name in the field and published twice in two top-impact journals (Cell Press, Nature, Science),,

There are actually quite a few. I knew 3 just within my undergrad fraternity (and several more outside it), and none of them ended up at the schools you listed either. "Top research" is actually not as hard to get as you'd imagine.

If I had to guess, these are schools where you are expected to demonstrate a commitment to medicine in addition to having stellar numbers and high impact research.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Luck of the draw my friend. I understand your frustration, but 75 LizzyM + strong research does not automatically equal a top 10 acceptance. Not even close.

 

[medstudentapp]

true. interesting points. But makes good ECs? everyone shadows and works in a hospital, etc. These don't really make anyone stand out; essentially its just to put a completion checkmark on your application...

 

[WedgeDawg]

true. interesting points. But makes good ECs? everyone shadows and works in a hospital, etc. These don't really make anyone stand out; essentially its just to put a completion checkmark on your application...

I don't really know. Being exceptional helps, but med schools, particularly those that can be picky (i.e. all the ones that you listed), give strong considerations to fit. Intangibles that are inadvertently brought out in your app can make a difference.

If you want something more concrete, your MCAT, while good, isn't exactly stellar. Plenty of those schools have medians higher than a 36. I don't think this was the reason that you aren't getting interviews (at least not by itself), but it might be a contributing factor. Had I the opportunity to advise you earlier, I might have also suggested adding Vanderbilt, Michigan, Northwestern, Cornell, NYU, Pitt, Sinai, etc to your list, as that would have likely doubled your chances of a top school interview.

As a followup, I disagree with what @texan2414 said - just because you're research heavy doesn't mean you've tailored your app towards being a PhD at all. FWIW, I had an extremely similar app to you in terms of stats, ECs, school, etc, and I interviewed at several of those schools on your list and am currently attending one. While on a superficial level we look the same, I suspect there were some intangible aspects of my app that may have made the difference (though I have absolutely no idea what they are, if they even exist).

 

[medstudentapp]

Received interview offer from Stanford today! But actually, what is even considered exceptional ECs? Med schools have no way to differentiate between shadowing, volunteering, clubs, etc about whose experiences were better. But with research I feel that they definitely can.

 

[7331poas]

Received interview offer from Stanford today! But actually, what is even considered exceptional ECs? Med schools have no way to differentiate between shadowing, volunteering, clubs, etc about whose experiences were better. But with research I feel that they definitely can.

Because those things arent exceptional. I am an engineer so I am biased, but I think an excellent EC would be to develop something that really creates change for the better.

 

[piii]

When you say similar research background what does that mean specifically? I doubt many people work with a super top name in the field and published twice in two top-impact journals (Cell Press, Nature, Science),,

I mean that I performed research for more than half a decade at a top institution with 5+ pubs, a few at those journals you mentioned.

Received interview offer from Stanford today! But actually, what is even considered exceptional ECs? Med schools have no way to differentiate between shadowing, volunteering, clubs, etc about whose experiences were better. But with research I feel that they definitely can.

You have great research but everything else is kind of average. An exceptional candidate would have your research, but would have national athletic awards, or government grants to travel abroad and teach, created a Non profit, blah blah blah. They have more than one eye catching thing and also great stats and great service, etc.

Anyway, congrats on the II!

 

[GrapesofRath]

Received interview offer from Stanford today! But actually, what is even considered exceptional ECs? Med schools have no way to differentiate between shadowing, volunteering, clubs, etc about whose experiences were better. But with research I feel that they definitely can.

This talk about being too "PhD tailored of an app" isnt really the issue. Plenty of people with big stats have success with top schools with ECs centered largely around strong research experience with the rest of their app being for lack of a better word largely your generic pre-med ECs that are important but dont stand out (ie your 150 hospital hours, your 50 shadowing hours, your two semesters of volunteering every Saturday morning in the soup kitchen to get 150 hours etc). Your non research ECs could certainly stand out more, but it's pure nonsense that large numbers of people with research heavy and tailored apps cant be successful at top 20 schools each year.

There are always too many factors that play a role in admission that it isnt worthwhile trying to just pinpoint one little thing here or there as the cause for a lack of success. What I can say though is everybody has a certain list of ECs they have about them, a certain background they come from, certain interests they have, certain things that make them tick etc. How you put all these various things to tell a cohesive and compelling story about yourself is what really makes a big difference(at all levels of admission for all types of schools). This comes down to how you tie everything in your app to point a unique image about yourself in your essays, secondaries, LORs etc. How you tie everything together, your accomplishments, your background etc into an organized, clear and compelling story about yourself and why you want to pursue medicine is what it's all about. It sounds so simple and basic, but it's much more difficult and less common than we like to imagine to do this effectively.

Presentation of what you've done at top schools with uber competitive admission is often just as much of a difference maker as what you have actually done. This can be said of admission to all types of top schools(UG, law school, PhD programs etc) but schools focus isnt on well rounded individuals. It's on having well rounded matriculating classes. There's a key distinction there. A class that has enough diverse and unique experiences amongst its individuals to overall create an entire class that is balanced and well rounded is the goal. The people making up those classes arent compelling by being "well rounded themselves", they are compelling because they how they have presented themselves both in their accomplishments, their responses and the written parts of their application stands out.

 

[gyngyn]

Presentation of what you've done at top schools with uber competitive admission is often just as much of a difference maker as what you have actually done. This can be said of admission to all types of top schools(UG, law school, PhD programs etc) but schools focus isnt on well rounded individuals. It's on having well rounded matriculating classes. There's a key distinction there. A class that has enough diverse and unique experiences amongst its individuals to overall create an entire class that is balanced and well rounded is the goal. The people making up those classes arent compelling by being "well rounded themselves", they are compelling because they how they have presented themselves both in their accomplishments, their responses and the written parts of their application stands out.

This is a key point. We want people who have distinguished themselves in their chosen field of study.
I think @GrapesofRath is ready for my job now. All that is left is learning to get good match results for the medical students!

 

[LizzyM]

Two things come to mind:
motivation for medicine
outside interests

Sick family members can be the beginning of an interest in the field of medicine but you need to go beyond that experience to have some idea of what it is to practice medicine and some experience of dealing with strangers (not family or friends) who are sick or injured or otherwise seeking healthcare.

With thousands of applicants for just hundreds of interview slots, something in the application needs to make the reader say, "how interesting! I'd like to meet this applicant." Is there something in your application that is interesting or fun?

Finally, get over yourself. Not every reader will be familiar with the VIP PI you've worked with. Some don't really care about the impact factor of the journals you've published in. Yes, I'm even talking about interviewers at top 20 schools.

 

[medstudentapp]

Get over myself? Im pretty sure I got my interview at Stanford solely on my research experience. Hence, they asked to list my publications.

 

[medstudentapp]

I mean that I performed research for more than half a decade at a top institution with 5+ pubs, a few at those journals you mentioned.


You have great research but everything else is kind of average. An exceptional candidate would have your research, but would have national athletic awards, or government grants to travel abroad and teach, created a Non profit, blah blah blah. They have more than one eye catching thing and also great stats and great service, etc.

Anyway, congrats on the II!

Damn 2 or more of your publications out of 5 are in Cell and Nature? Get a faculty position!

 

[LizzyM]

Get over myself? Im pretty sure I got my interview at Stanford solely on my research experience. Hence, they asked to list my publications.

Good luck with that... I hope you don't come across in person they way you have on this thread.

 

[Goro]

This type of attitude is one reason why people get rejected. Successful applicants do what they love and love what they do. My SDNer "advisees" who have gotten into JHU, Wash U and Harvard literally have 1000+ of hrs of patient contact experience.

true. interesting points. But makes good ECs? everyone shadows and works in a hospital, etc. These don't really make anyone stand out; essentially its just to put a completion checkmark on your application...

 

[medstudentapp]

debatable

 

[LFC85]

"My essays were outstanding."

Perhaps some braggadocio came through your "outstanding" essay.

You don't want to listen to either of the adcoms on here, so why are you here exactly?

 

[medstudentapp]

Im sorry, You are all right about my app :/

 

[Zach Morris]

A little humility goes a long way in this profession. I hope you learn that somewhere along your journey, for your patients' collective sake.

 

[medstudentapp]

Accepted to Stanford!!!

 

[LizzyM]

Accepted to Stanford!!!

Tough choice?? State school or Stanford.... what does your COA look like for each, if I may ask?

 

[medstudentapp]

I will probably be picking Stanford. It wont be much more expensive..still need to figure out cost of living though

 

[ditritium monoxide]

I'm glad it worked out for you in the end, but seeing threads like these honestly make me wonder weather I or others even have these necessary intangibles for an acceptance, or we don't have them and no amount of work, effort, or credentials will compensate.

I also wonder how those who have bad semesters and need a massive gpa boosts feel when they see posts like these. Not an attack on you specifically OP, just a thought.

Lastly OP: what is your race?

 

[LizzyM]

I will probably be picking Stanford. It wont be much more expensive..still need to figure out cost of living though

Good for you. What was the date of your first interview invite? Did you meet the "first interview invite by Thanksgiving" rubric?

 

[medstudentapp]

I am caucasian.