Why are academic integrity issues the worst of all crimes?

[tigawoods]

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For getting into medical school

I never got this. Almost nobody seems to get a second chance. I would think violence/drug/substance abuse violations would = death. It would seem that academic integrity would be far more important when applying for to phd programs.

What do you guys think?

 

[scg]

I'm sorry you got caught.

 

[202781]

Because integrity of a physician is at stake. If you cheat to get into medical school, who is going to say that you would not cheat on a patient report or lie on a report that would move one of your patients higher on a transplant list.

If you are caught drinking booze when you are 19 then that would really not impact you as a physician 10 years down the line. same with getting caught smoking weed...that stuff leaves your system, cheating does not.

 

[Joe Postman]

did you not just read the Suspension at a top 5 univ. - help!!! post?

 

[LizzyM]

Well, criminal sexual assault, felony drug dealing, conspiracy to commit terrorism are also BAD but they are far more rare among applicants.

Lack of academic integrity may be associated with a lack of professional integrity. Schools want to avoid having one of their alumni in the news with a story like this:

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- A doctor's license was revoked Friday ....the Florida Medical Board upheld Department of Health allegations that he falsified medical records, inappropriately delegated tasks to unlicensed personnel and committed malpractice.

Med school involves tests, lab reports, case reports and the authority to record information in medical records. Who wants to deal with a medial student who in college was found not to be trustworthy?

 

[Quix]

Well, criminal sexual assault, felony drug dealing, conspiracy to commit terrorism are also BAD but they are far more rare among applicants.

Lack of academic integrity may be associated with a lack of professional integrity. Schools want to avoid having one of their alumni in the news with a story like this:

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- A doctor's license was revoked Friday ....the Florida Medical Board upheld Department of Health allegations that he falsified medical records, inappropriately delegated tasks to unlicensed personnel and committed malpractice.

Med school involves tests, lab reports, case reports and the authority to record information in medical records. Who wants to deal with a medial student who in college was found not to be trustworthy?

Exactly. There is also the issue of the individual action impacting others professionally - i.e., guilt by association. I had some students ask about this earlier this semester. If you have a student who cheats and earns a grade/degree via subterfuge and is later caught, it casts suspicion upon everyone associated with that program - if this is the type of person who graduates from Institution X, employers/patients/colleagues become suspicious of similar people within their own organization (even if these individuals did nothing wrong). So individual actions can affect an entire institution/organization/profession, which is why they get the hammer when they occur.

The 2008 controversy surrounding the circumstances in which WVU awarded a woman an unearned MBA (due to political collusion) is an example of this on a huge scale.

 

[PremedIowa]

For getting into medical school

I never got this. Almost nobody seems to get a second chance. I would think violence/drug/substance abuse violations would = death. It would seem that academic integrity would be far more important when applying for to phd programs.

What do you guys think?

If you commit a violent crime, you are not going to get into medical school. Some schools may be willing to overlook an episode of cheating if you showed clear change in your record, but if you beat your spouse, it is over.

 

[koffein]

For getting into medical school

I never got this. Almost nobody seems to get a second chance. I would think violence/drug/substance abuse violations would = death. It would seem that academic integrity would be far more important when applying for to phd programs.

What do you guys think?

Differences:
Violent crimes against another person, or any intentional harm inflicted onto another, is similar to breaching academic regulations in that both cause harm to another. They really seem to be about equally bad...

Drug/alcohol use is harm inflicted onto oneself. There is no aspect of the behavior that is motivated by a desire to harm another. It is a personal problem that can be treated.

Most of all, the reason academic violations are so especially heinous is because people who do it spit in the face of all of us who slave away to do it in a just manner. That is why they do not deserve a second chance.

 

[MDman87]

I think the answer lies in the question. "Academic integrity." Sounds pretty important to me

 

[virusgirl]

If you commit a violent crime, you are not going to get into medical school. Some schools may be willing to overlook an episode of cheating if you showed clear change in your record, but if you beat your spouse, it is over.

I disagree. I suspect you're right about having a record of violent crime, but I think cheating would definitely preclude you from getting into med school -- and how would you show clear change, anyway? Cheating would cast doubt upon any additional As you managed to get.

 

[Dirt]

Well for one it is incredibly easy to cheat in med school since most are 100% based on the honor system.

The thing with the honor system is, once you lose your honor...

 

[BlueElmo]

Well for one it is incredibly easy to cheat in med school since most are 100% based on the honor system.

The thing with the honor system is, once you lose your honor...

You follow the road of the ancient samurai warrior.

 

[lrkoehle]

Cheating is one of those things where you most likely did it for a little while before actually getting caught (ie you probably won't be caught your first time), so it could affect your entire application. For example, if some one with a 4.0 gets caught cheating, how are schools going to know if they only cheated once or if their entire GPA is the result of cheating. I just don't think it is possible to recover from that.

Another example is if a medical school is accepting two students, one with a 3.95 GPA and a 35 MCAT who was caught cheating once and the other a 3.6 GPA and a 30 MCAT, I would hope the person with lower stats gets in since schools can be sure they earned ALL of their grades.

 

[fizzle]

Cheating is one of those things where you most likely did it for a little while before actually getting caught (ie you probably won't be caught your first time), so it could affect your entire application. For example, if some one with a 4.0 gets caught cheating, how are schools going to know if they only cheated once or if their entire GPA is the result of cheating. I just don't think it is possible to recover from that.

Another example is if a medical school is accepting two students, one with a 3.95 GPA and a 35 MCAT who was caught cheating once and the other a 3.6 GPA and a 30 MCAT, I would hope the person with lower stats gets in since schools can be sure they earned ALL of their grades.

While getting caught certainly means that an applicant cheats, the converse isn't true...you're implying that all cheaters get caught, which is definitely not true.

 

[LizzyM]

It never comes down to 2 students, one of whom has cheated. It is more likely that you have a few thousand applications, several hundred interview spots and a dozen cheaters. Do you want to give any of those applicants interviews knowing that thousands of non-cheaters will not make the cut for an interview?

 

[lrkoehle]

While getting caught certainly means that an applicant cheats, the converse isn't true...you're implying that all cheaters get caught, which is definitely not true.

Well, I did not intend to imply that all cheaters will get caught, in fact I was trying to make the point that they often do not get caught right away. Thus by the time they do get caught they have likely been doing it for awhile (even though they usually claim it was their first time). As for my example, the person not caught cheating can be assumed to not be a cheater in the eyes of a school, because they are innocent until proven guilty (at least I hope schools don't just assume we are all cheaters, then none of us should get in).

 

[lrkoehle]

It never comes down to 2 students, one of whom has cheated. It is more likely that you have a few thousand applications, several hundred interview spots and a dozen cheaters. Do you want to give any of those applicants interviews knowing that thousands of non-cheaters will not make the cut for an interview?

Certainly a much better example than mine, but this is the exact point I was TRYING to make (I just did a very poor job of it 🙁)

 

[ar2388]

While getting caught certainly means that an applicant cheats, the converse isn't true...you're implying that all cheaters get caught, which is definitely not true.

im glad someone said it. I was wondering that it is incredily unfair how in some schools professors will just give the person a zero for the assignment or make them fail the class and leave it at that, but in other schools with an insane honor system, a tiny infraction oculd result in disciplinary action that may kill their dreams? that f*cking sucks guys.