Why are so many people here negative about Pharmacy?

[Rukn]

It has nothing to do with script count

I've been at stores where they do 600 or so a day and I didn't feel too stressed at all

And then I've been to stores that barely crack 400 and I've been stressed at those

it depends on the quality of help you have and the problems you encounter

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[Digsbe]

With 99% of things on the internet I think people in general are more vocal about negative things than positive ones. People rarely go out of their way to say positive things. I'm graduating next weekend from pharmacy school and my impressions are that if you can land a job with the right company it's a decent field.

The idea I like about pharmacy is obviously the generous pay (compared to most jobs it's good) and honestly I love the scheduling. I want a job that lets me work 12+ hour shifts to have more days off in a row so I can travel. Many staff pharmacists I know are on a schedule where they have a short week and a long week. You can take a few hours of PTO on your short week and take multiple vacations per year.

It's true that it's getting harder and harder to find jobs. As a soon to be graduate I do feel that schools push a very "optimistic" form of pharmacy and educate you to perform for jobs that don't exist. They'll talk about managing disease states, provider status, play up the future with pharmacists being practitioners and an increasingly clinical role of clinical pharmacy but this really isn't reality unless you're at the VA.

You work your butt off, earn a doctorate, and most of the world has no idea that you're a doctor or have any kind of advanced education. You'll frequently get disrespected by an impatient public and drug addicts. You're looked down upon, sometimes berated by colleagues and much of the public has no idea what you do and think it's a matter of counting pills with a label on a bottle. Then again you do have those patients you can make life saving interventions on or educate them and impact their disease outcome and that makes it all worth the while.

 

[npage148]

I disagree. Most pharmacy jobs have a very high stress per dollar quotient. There are jobs in which you might make half the take home pay of a pharmacist, yet only have 1/10th the stress, be able to enjoy your days off without having to convalesce for the next grueling shift.

There's also the deferred cost of future health problems. I've seen so many very good pharmacists become shriveled husks by their 50's. Like they spent time in a forced labor camp as a POW. They aren't going to be living large on the beach during retirement, if they retire.

You're right. All those mine workers, migrant farmers, fisherman, construction workers, and first responders have it made. Lower pay but no stress

You can work in a typical lower mgmt/grunt office setting and make 1/3 of what you make now or you could be a higher stress middle mgmt/sales person and make 1/2. No one making 60+k has a stress free job and if you think so you haven't spent enough to time around working Americans.

Pharmacy = POW? Those type of hyperbolic statement are why your and the other doomsday people get laughed at by more rationale pharms. At best it's disingenuous and at worst it's delusional and paranoid

 

[Rukn]

With 99% of things on the internet I think people in general are more vocal about negative things than positive ones. People rarely go out of their way to say positive things. I'm graduating next weekend from pharmacy school and my impressions are that if you can land a job with the right company it's a decent field.

The idea I like about pharmacy is obviously the generous pay (compared to most jobs it's good) and honestly I love the scheduling. I want a job that lets me work 12+ hour shifts to have more days off in a row so I can travel. Many staff pharmacists I know are on a schedule where they have a short week and a long week. You can take a few hours of PTO on your short week and take multiple vacations per year.

It's true that it's getting harder and harder to find jobs. As a soon to be graduate I do feel that schools push a very "optimistic" form of pharmacy and educate you to perform for jobs that don't exist. They'll talk about managing disease states, provider status, play up the future with pharmacists being practitioners and an increasingly clinical role of clinical pharmacy but this really isn't reality unless you're at the VA.

You work your butt off, earn a doctorate, and most of the world has no idea that you're a doctor or have any kind of advanced education. You'll frequently get disrespected by an impatient public and drug addicts. You're looked down upon, sometimes berated by colleagues and much of the public has no idea what you do and think it's a matter of counting pills with a label on a bottle. Then again you do have those patients you can make life saving interventions on or educate them and impact their disease outcome and that makes it all worth the while.

This is the part that I really hate

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

A lot of people get into pharmacy school for the wrong reasons. Mostly because they are told it is a cushy job with a good salary. The salary part is true. The cushy part is not.

Plus a lot of people enter pharmacy school at a young age before they can really see the world and decide on a career that would fit them better. They also lack work experience so they don't understand that the workplace is different from school. College is a joke. People with subpar work ethics and intelligence can get A's. But a job requires a good work ethic, patience, and the smarts to get stuff done. You don't get A's for pulling an all-nighter, and you can't skip work like you can classes. Companies only care about what you bring to the workplace. If you're a good worker, you get to collect a paycheck. If not, then you get less pay/hours/benefits or get fired.

Plus a lot of people get an inflated ego because they get a 'doctorate' degree. Sorry pal, lawyers, optometrists, and physical therapists(???) are doctors too. NPs, CRNAs, and even PAs are trying to go to the doctorate route so everyone and their grandmother is now a doctor. A bigger title does not necessarily result in better pay and better working conditions.

 

[Carol is Alpha]

Your making my point, for every store selling 1000 per day there's a store doing 200. The pharmacists selling 400 or less most likely enjoy their job a lot more then the 1000 stores. These are the people complaining here.

We do have a barbell distribution. Some pharmacists loving life in a adequately-staffed store in low volume and others toiling in high volume settings w/o enough resources. An acquaintance graduated around 2006 and lucked out in securing a position under decent circumstances. This was when chains were expanding like crazy so there were a lot of new stores with low volume. I felt this probably wasn't a good for him in the long run for his first job to be ideal. He would get a slanted view of what pharmacy is really all about. I told him don't expect your current situation to remain so. Things change. Don't buy too much house, don't get a fancy car, don't get married, and by no means have kids until you are financially secure.

Well within a year he got married, bought at the top of real estate market, two SUVs, and had...drumroll....twins...ta da! Years have passed and things at his job did change. For the worse. Yes, retail is hell and it's not a sustainable career. This is him now.

So wagrxm is that what happened to you? One of the few lucky ones that landed in a sheltered alcove right out of school. Already interpolating all the future bank you're going to make the next 30 years. Good luck with that plan. For if you are in a low volume store, what do think is going to happen when Wags merges with RA or if that falls thru with another chain? Looks like 30B will be the debt load in the new company. Are they going to keep 3 stores a mile apart from each other doing about 200/day open? No, they're going to cut one of them. Now even if you still have a gig you'll be in a store doing 50% more but no extra help. Enjoy.

 

[W19]

You're right. All those mine workers, migrant farmers, fisherman, construction workers, and first responders have it made. Lower pay but no stress

You can work in a typical lower mgmt/grunt office setting and make 1/3 of what you make now or you could be a higher stress middle mgmt/sales person and make 1/2. No one making 60+k has a stress free job and if you think so you haven't spent enough to time around working Americans.

Pharmacy = POW? Those type of hyperbolic statement are why your and the other doomsday people get laughed at by more rationale pharms. At best it's disingenuous and at worst it's delusional and paranoid

Can you make these statements sticky in the med student forum?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Oh, sonny, where I'm from was the gold mine that carried the chain. During the great pharmacy bubble uptrend I worked in stores that made the transition from 600/day to 700/day, from 700 to 800, 800 to 900, and 900 to 1000. Each quantum leap is like another mach number, for the workload doesn't increase linearly, but geometrically. More scripts, more time filling scripts and less time for collateral sidework which increases with volume, hence the geometric squeeze. Anybody here pull over 100 too old prescriptions from the bins for a single day? Yes, a single day, every day, 100+ deletes, while you got over 200 in the queue not counting the 100 already printed. That my friend will shorten your life real fast if done over an extended period.

So you're one of the pharmacists the profession has to thank for not having the self respect and guts to stand up for yourself???

If it's so stressful to the point of physical harm, why did you never protest???

Why didn't you quit?

 

[PharmtoCS]

While pharmacy isn't necessarily the worst profession as of now, there are still others (i.e. accounting, computer programming, etc) that are far better.

Sent from my SM-N910V using SDN mobile

 

[netmag]

A lot of people who have something complain about are more likely to post than those who are fine. Over all, there's nothing more unique going on in Pharmacy than any other profession. They ALL have some level of corporate BS that infiltrates them. It's just a matter of how much. Pharmacy used to be one of those professions with low levels of corporate BS. So there are people who say things like "It's Awful" and such just because their experiencing change that they are not accustomed to or perhaps were not expecting to have to deal with. The change has been fairly quick, but the whining is a bit overblown. It just means that now you must actually compete to get a job (like everyone else) and maybe actually be more personable as opposed to just jumping in and getting everything regardless of what others think of you.

There are some who hate the thought of being affected by corporate change. They want to feel independent of this sort of thing. They had the best of both worlds. Security from the uncertainty of true independent Pharmacy, but yet freedom from corporate BS. Now big brother and budget constraints is readily apparent everywhere. Overall, Pharmacy is no more stressful than any other job that makes 100K+, but one can see how there could be a desire to try to get back to the way it was. Lowering the supply of Pharmacists and increasing the demand would certainly do that, but a lot existing Pharmacists probably just need to get comfortable with playing the game of change. Trying to find a hole in the wall where you can try to hide until retirement is probably not the best strategy. It may work out, but may not.

Also, I've seen a lot of comparisons of Pharmacy to other professions like Computer Science and Engineering. These professions are not comparable. If you think so, then you obviously don't put much stock in the dealing with people/patient aspect and probably need to stay away from Pharmacy anyway. If not, you'll have much more limited avenues and spend a lot of time here exaggerating about how horrible things are in Pharmacy just because you're not happy and also making sad posts (like one on here earlier) asking about Pharmacy jobs that have no people interaction.

 

[Digsbe]

I find it silly how people think the grass is greener on the other side too. If you're frustrated by legal restraints and a lack of true clinical practice I understand why many in pharmacy want to go for MD/DO. But if it's about job metrics, corporate overhead, and other such things it's not going to be much different. On several rotations I worked very closely with some MDs and residents as well as working in a primary care clinic. The paperwork, charting, things to review and sign, insurance issues, PA requests, etc. are daunting and just as bad (if not worse) than in pharmacy. Insurance companies act as a corporate overhead of sorts, and if the practice is owned by a medical group you also have that overhead.

America as a whole is moving towards a "do more with less" workforce mandated by employers and with liability and insurance changing you're having to document more and do more paperwork. I can't think of a single sector that isn't headed in this direction.

 

[W19]

Your job is not perfect (far from that TBH), but you probably have it better than most Americans.

 

[W19]

It's safe to say most pharmacists are in the top 10% income wise, and most doc are in the top 5%.

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...gn=article&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=yahoo-2

 

[PharmtoCS]

Pharmacists are also in the top 5% (and maybe 1%) in terms of student loan burden. A $120k/year pharmacist with $25k in yearly student loan payments takes home roughly the equivalent of someone who earns $70-90k/year gross with little or no debt. The latter can be easily achieved as a computer programmer, accountant, or engineer with a 4 year degree or less and job prospects that are as good if not better than for pharmacy.

 

[Chalupa_Batman86]

Meh, saturation is a fact, not a concern.

 

[sunakuma]

It is funny to think about. Back in the days (early 2000's), you could apply to pharmacy school and told the admin/interviewers that pharmacy is a good field with these reasons: job security (with sign-on bonus, multiple jobs line up before graduation), flexibility (able to move to wherever I want easily, able to switch jobs from different field--hospital, retail), good working environment (unlike today's expectation of doing more with less help), good money (lower tuition), no residency needed (pros for those not want to do long schooling such as medical school).

Of course, now it's more like you have to have passion, and love this field to make sense to get into it. You can't even mention most of the above reasons anymore. This way you are willing to work hard and able to pass all the struggles to get something decent (even that may not be guaranteed, since everyone is trying to DIFFERENTIATE from others, everyone is trying to networking--when everyone is doing the above, how do you differentiate from all the others?) This field become a field that require so much hard work, time investment, huge loan, and end up have to worry about job security. How is this not make people negative?

 

[The Clyde]

I'm not a pharmacist, but I'd like to offer a real world opinion on on thing that comes up a lot here..

I'm an engineer.. Got a 4 year degree and have a decade on the job working with other engineers, programmers, scientists, and related fields that get tons of mentions here as a better option. My opinion on being an engineer is very mixed, and is based not only on my experience. I had some loans coming out, about half of what is often quoted for pharmacy school (I went to a public school), but the pay was more than enough to take good care of me. The schooling was tough. Our first two semesters saw lecture halls go from 50-60 to 20-30. For whatever reason, it was common for people to go from engineering to premed/bio and business school. The math and physics crippled 18/19 year old peoples' self confidence immediately. Engineering might be a great fiscal decision, but it's not for everyone, and I wish folks would keep that in mind when trying to steer college-aged people into the fields. Programming and software dev is included in this statement.

The satisfaction of the work is probably 50/50 at best (and this is my estimate talking to former classmates, colleagues, and other engineers). If you are working with government direct or contract related stuff (huge employer in engineering), you are probably going to spend 50-60% of your time doing "engineering" work that consists of paperwork, contracts, reviews, drafting requirements, funding allocation, and coordination efforts. As you become more senior, that percentage becomes larger and larger, and eventually you are "too expensive" to do the technical/bench work. This alone is a major complaint from about 75% of my peers (less so with programmers, but still a complaint). Engineers get "broken" after a certain point, and just accept that the high-level math and technical work that they hoped to do is replaced by project management. It's still a good, secure 9-5 job, but you can get pigeon holed pretty quickly and thoroughly. There are exceptions. I happen to work with a place where at least half the engineers/scientists actually get to be engineers and scientists for more than half of their day. There's constant pressure to take on managerial roles, but it's tame compared to other companies (where they force you). People fight to get into this place.

I'll never call engineering/programming type jobs bad jobs. They aren't. They are financially a great option, and a pretty decent career if you enjoy this type of work and the likelihood of becoming a project manager.

P.S. - I know we aren't big fans of the BLS in here.. but the job growth projections for electrical engineers, where a large % of software engineers originate, is 0%. Software Dev's still has a good outlook though.

P.P.S - The whole thing with differentiating yourself to get a good job? It's super present in engineering. Resumes with nothing other than a degree get very little love (unless you know someone).

 

[gwarm01]

It is funny to think about. Back in the days (early 2000's), you could apply to pharmacy school and told the admin/interviewers that pharmacy is a good field with these reasons: job security (with sign-on bonus, multiple jobs line up before graduation), flexibility (able to move to wherever I want easily, able to switch jobs from different field--hospital, retail), good working environment (unlike today's expectation of doing more with less help), good money (lower tuition), no residency needed (pros for those not want to do long schooling such as medical school).

It's funny because those were the exact reasons I chose to pursue pharmacy in the early 2000s. I don't have a family member that was a pharmacist, I don't have a "passion" for pharmacy. I was vaguely interested in healthcare and enjoyed my high-school chemistry classes, so it seemed like a good fit.

Today you'd be told to hit the road because you're doing it for the wrong reasons. You have to be willing to make sacrifices. If I was in undergrad right now and had to decide between pharmacy with a PGY3 or medicine, I'd easily try for medical school. I think a lot of the high performing students are already making that choice.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

It's funny because those were the exact reasons I chose to pursue pharmacy in the early 2000s. I don't have a family member that was a pharmacist, I don't have a "passion" for pharmacy. I was vaguely interested in healthcare and enjoyed my high-school chemistry classes, so it seemed like a good fit.

Today you'd be told to hit the road because you're doing it for the wrong reasons. You have to be willing to make sacrifices. If I was in undergrad right now and had to decide between pharmacy with a PGY3 or medicine, I'd easily try for medical school. I think a lot of the high performing students are already making that choice.

The mess caused by the glut of pharmacy schools, has led a lot of competent and bright kids to go into MD, PA, and even nursing school. Yes, nursing is a more prestigious field now because it is so much more versatile (CNA, RN, BSN, MSN, NP, CRNA, etc) and if you do it right, even getting a CRNA degree is cheaper and pays out more than a PharmD!!!

Aaaaand.... I think that PGY residency stuff has really decreased the prestige of pharmacy.

Unlike medical residency, it doesn't result in higher pay nor does it increase the value of a pharmacist to an employer.
It's basically just a tool to filter the competent students from the complete idiots that come out of pharm school (Those fourth years who don't even know the names of drugs.)

You really have to live in a fantasy bubble to drink the kool-aid coming from this gamma:
http://connect.ashp.org/blogs/paul-abramowitz/2016/03/18/residency-match-day-2016?ssopc=1
I'm sure the nurses beat him up and steal his lunch money.

Most of my classmates have no desire to do a residency. Why be a powerpoint maker for 40K when you can get >120K as a real pharmacist.

And if you think retail is beneath you, get this: I know of several hospital PGY-1 students who are applying for Waggyworld and the Red Devil. If a hospital job is not available by the end of the PGY, then you're gonna have to beg Larry and Stefano for a job.

 

[sunakuma]

P.P.S - The whole thing with differentiating yourself to get a good job? It's super present in engineering. Resumes with nothing other than a degree get very little love (unless you know someone).

Yep, I agree. I have a friend with engineering degree and couldn't get an engineering job for >1 year and now works on non-related field part time. Grass is not always greener on the other side. Same thing goes with some of my friends with accounting degree as well. Higher education degree nowadays does not guaranteed any more success or job securities anymore.

 

[Rukn]

Yep, I agree. I have a friend with engineering degree and couldn't get an engineering job for >1 year and now works on non-related field part time. Grass is not always greener on the other side. Same thing goes with some of my friends with accounting degree as well. Higher education degree nowadays does not guaranteed any more success or job securities anymore.

I have not heard of a single unemployed accountant

Have heard of the odd engineer who cannot find a job

Have heard of pharmacists who are struggling to get full time hours

 

[hye345]

I have not heard of a single unemployed accountant

Have heard of the odd engineer who cannot find a job

Have heard of pharmacists who are struggling to get full time hours

But you yourself are a pharmacist, and thus work with pharmacists; of course you're gonna hear more stories about (the difficulty in) finding employment. Something tells me that if you visit an accounting or engineering forum, you will find rants and raves about things "just aren't the way they used to be".

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

I second this. I know a few classmates who were engineers who were unemployed or underemployed when they got out. One finally got a job via a staffing company after being completely jobless for a year.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I suppose it depends on the engineering discipline. The mechanical engineers I know seem to be doing fine. The software engineers I know are making bank and are actually able to afford homes and take multiple overseas vacations each year. It must be nice to have no student loans.

 

[Rukn]

I suppose it depends on the engineering discipline. The mechanical engineers I know seem to be doing fine. The software engineers I know are making bank and are actually able to afford homes and take multiple overseas vacations each year. It must be nice to have no student loans.

This

Like I said, you hear once in a while that an engineer is having trouble finding work

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

I suppose it depends on the engineering discipline. The mechanical engineers I know seem to be doing fine. The software engineers I know are making bank and are actually able to afford homes and take multiple overseas vacations each year. It must be nice to have no student loans.

Is this place California? Barely any software engineer jobs in my neck of the woods.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Is this place California? Barely any software engineer jobs in my neck of the woods.

That is correct. In fact, in Northern California known for its astronomical home prices, it seems to be only those in tech and finance that can afford homes. Healthcare professionals not so much, especially when you have $200k+ in loans.

 

[TheBlaah]

The tech industry is currently in a bubble. While established companies like google and amazon will be perfectly fine, I'm of the belief that many of these startup companies are overvalued will soon be culled if they do not begin generating revenue. The bubble is going to burst or make a "market adjustment" sooner or later and a good number of these jobs will be cut particularly in California. I don't think it'll be nearly as bad as the dot-com bubble in 2000, but tech jobs will definitely take a hit. It's an inherently risky industry.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Why bother doing anything based on objective metrics of effort vs pay?

Are you all really such passionless drones that you wouldn't do something hard for less money because you love it???

A lot of people get into pharmacy school for the wrong reasons. Mostly because they are told it is a cushy job with a good salary. The salary part is true. The cushy part is not.

Plus a lot of people enter pharmacy school at a young age before they can really see the world and decide on a career that would fit them better. They also lack work experience so they don't understand that the workplace is different from school. College is a joke. People with subpar work ethics and intelligence can get A's. But a job requires a good work ethic, patience, and the smarts to get stuff done. You don't get A's for pulling an all-nighter, and you can't skip work like you can classes. Companies only care about what you bring to the workplace. If you're a good worker, you get to collect a paycheck. If not, then you get less pay/hours/benefits or get fired.

Plus a lot of people get an inflated ego because they get a 'doctorate' degree. Sorry pal, lawyers, optometrists, and physical therapists(???) are doctors too. NPs, CRNAs, and even PAs are trying to go to the doctorate route so everyone and their grandmother is now a doctor. A bigger title does not necessarily result in better pay and better working conditions.

You're just one ball of salty butt hurt aren't you?

The doctorate degree isn't a singular goal.
It's a symbol, not an ego boost for new grads, nor is it something you need to feel so self conscious about not having. . A symbol that a lot of people don't live up to.

 

[lane one]

The mess caused by the glut of pharmacy schools, has led a lot of competent and bright kids to go into MD, PA, and even nursing school. Yes, nursing is a more prestigious field now because it is so much more versatile (CNA, RN, BSN, MSN, NP, CRNA, etc) and if you do it right, even getting a CRNA degree is cheaper and pays out more than a PharmD!!!

Aaaaand.... I think that PGY residency stuff has really decreased the prestige of pharmacy.

Unlike medical residency, it doesn't result in higher pay nor does it increase the value of a pharmacist to an employer.
It's basically just a tool to filter the competent students from the complete idiots that come out of pharm school (Those fourth years who don't even know the names of drugs.)

You really have to live in a fantasy bubble to drink the kool-aid coming from this gamma:
http://connect.ashp.org/blogs/paul-abramowitz/2016/03/18/residency-match-day-2016?ssopc=1
I'm sure the nurses beat him up and steal his lunch money.

Most of my classmates have no desire to do a residency. Why be a powerpoint maker for 40K when you can get >120K as a real pharmacist.

And if you think retail is beneath you, get this: I know of several hospital PGY-1 students who are applying for Waggyworld and the Red Devil. If a hospital job is not available by the end of the PGY, then you're gonna have to beg Larry and Stefano for a job.

The Red Devil would never hire a little **** like you. Larry only takes the best.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

I picked up a graveyard shift at the hospital on the fly. I end up working til 3AM when I am able to take a lunch break. I open SDN Pharmacy in the break room and I see this:

The Red Devil would never hire a little **** like you. Larry only takes the best.

And I burst out laughing like a f$%#ing mofo. (The pharmacist came in to check on me.)

You sir, have made my day. I still don't know if you're really PO'ed at me or just trying to bring the HEAT. (or both.) So I will apologize. Sorry.

I was just trying to point out the absurd egos that some clinical/hospital pharmacists have and the unrealistic expectations that students have when it comes to getting clinical pharmacist jobs. ASHP may say that residency training is preparing students for clinical pharmacist jobs, but the truth is there aren't enough clinical pharmacist jobs for everyone coming out of residency. Its sad that the ASHP cannot admit to this reality.

So, in short, I just wanted to contribute some doom and gloom to the infernal vortex that is SDN pharmacy.

Plus I work part time for Stefano, so I am unworthy of your presence.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

Why bother doing anything based on objective metrics of effort vs pay?

Are you all really such passionless drones that you wouldn't do something hard for less money because you love it???


You're just one ball of salty butt hurt aren't you?

The doctorate degree isn't a singular goal.
It's a symbol, not an ego boost for new grads, nor is it something you need to feel so self conscious about not having. . A symbol that a lot of people don't live up to.

Sorry, I wasn't salty when I posted that. But it seems I made you (and maybe others) salty with it. I was just kvetching about some things I've noticed while working with pharmacists in my hospital system. I never meant to be disrespectful to pharmacists as a whole. I don't think the doctorate degree inflates the egos of all pharmacists. It just seems like the Doctor title goes to heads of some pharmacists working in hospitals. It results in them being unhappy with their situation because the actual scope of pharmacy practice is more limited than they expect. Here are some examples of what I have witnessed in the hospital pharmacy setting:

• In one instance, a hospital pharmacist was talked down to by a physician on the phone After she put the receiver down, she muttered "physicians are just diagnosticians, they don't know drugs as much as I do. What do they know. I'm a doctor too.'
• In another separate event, a hospital pharmacist, after receiving a barrage of calls from nurses to get their meds ASAP, went on a rant "Physicians and dentists get to be called doctor, why not us? Why can't we even get respect. WE ARE DOCTORS TOO."
• And in another instance, a hospital pharmacist broke down at work and told a coworker that she had gone into 200K debt for pharmacy school. "And for what. A fake doctorate. I'm not even a real doctor. The job market sucks. It was a terrible decision"
• And one final example, a clinical pharmacist we recently hired from retail world made the fatal mistake of telling the physician how to do his job. "No, I disagree with your prognosis. As a doctor of pharmacy, I don't want to dispense that medication for this patient because I think it's futile to treat this patient." Holy S#$%. That physician almost murdered that pharmacist. Only by the Grace of God and the steel-like fortitude of our DOP was an outright bloodbath prevented. I guess that 'clinical pharmacist' title went a little to his head. He got a little too excited with that nice white coat he gets to wear in the hospital. We all learned a valuable lesson that day. Until our lobbyists fetch us more privileges, we can only suggest, not debate as equals with our medical brethren.

I think the rosy picture that pharmacy schools (especially new diploma mills) paint of pharmacy is unrealistic. They promote this fantasy that we are doctors of drugs, but that doctorate title is a terrible description of the profession. Sure, some pharmacists get lucky and get to do neat doctor-like stuff at big academic centers. But the truth is, most other pharmacists cannot even do these doctor-like things. I have seen too many pharmacists disappointed when reality sets in. The pharmacists who are not taken in by this fantasy are better adjusted and happier with their lot in the healthcare world.

PAs, who only have a masters degree can prescribe and treat patients. Nurse practitioners, who know less about drugs than pharmacists can also prescribe medications. Both these occupations can do what many in pharmacy academia wish that pharmacists could do. Our doctorate and title 'doctor' is a meaningless tchotchke. It has not brought meaningful increase in our scope of practice in comparison to the RPh.

And from what I've seen, the move from RPh to PharmD has brought so much detriment to the profession. It has allowed schools to jack up the price of tuition and made the Pharmacy profession a cash cow for greedy colleges. Nowadays, people who have never worked as a pharmacist can now become pharmacy professors (since the PharmD is a terminal degree.) This has contributed to the metastatic spread of new pharmacy schools across this country. Back in the day, you had to be a well-established pharmacist with experience to become a pharmacy professor. Now that is not the case. Pharmacy schools are unlike the other professional schools in healthcare. Medical schools and nursing schools are taught by professionals who are still active or have many years of experience. An MD/DO professor may only teach a few classes, since their real profession is being an active physician. Nursing schools are staffed by experienced nurses who have worked in a variety of settings and are now passing their knowledge to their successors.

But Pharmacy?

You have people who went from pharmacy school -> residency -> pharmacy school professor without having worked a day in the real world. Even professors of experiential learning come from this breed! WTF. I have great respect for the older professors. Many of them ran their own pharmacies or practiced as hospital pharmacists for decades. They are a noble breed and many of them are very humble. They are unlike the newer professors who have no idea what the real world is like (and seem to have some kind of inferiority complex towards physicians. Why God why? Is it that important to be the doctor? Can't they just be proud to be pharmacists?)

So yeah, I think the doctorate is bad for our profession. I still think pharmacists who have worked hard and put their all into this field are amazing professionals. But I think that is in spite of the many things going wrong in this field.

DAMN. WTF. I WENT ON SOME RANT AGAIN. ANOTHER DOOM AND GLOOM PIECE TO ADD TO THE INFERNAL VORTEX THAT IS SDN PHARMACY.

I HAD TWO HOURS TO KILL BETWEEN WORK AND CLASSES, SO I ENDED UP WRITING THIS GARBAGE.

 

[Chalupa_Batman86]

^I politely disagree. Your rant was not garbage. It was #truth.

 

[gwarm01]

Words

The best is when you catch the smug, can super-ego pharmacists making a simple mistake. Not so smart now, are we?

 

[alprazolamborghini]

Sorry, I wasn't salty when I posted that. But it seems I made you (and maybe others) salty with it. I was just kvetching about some things I've noticed while working with pharmacists in my hospital system. I never meant to be disrespectful to pharmacists as a whole. I don't think the doctorate degree inflates the egos of all pharmacists. It just seems like the Doctor title goes to heads of some pharmacists working in hospitals. It results in them being unhappy with their situation because the actual scope of pharmacy practice is more limited than they expect. Here are some examples of what I have witnessed in the hospital pharmacy setting:

• In one instance, a hospital pharmacist was talked down to by a physician on the phone After she put the receiver down, she muttered "physicians are just diagnosticians, they don't know drugs as much as I do. What do they know. I'm a doctor too.'
• In another separate event, a hospital pharmacist, after receiving a barrage of calls from nurses to get their meds ASAP, went on a rant "Physicians and dentists get to be called doctor, why not us? Why can't we even get respect. WE ARE DOCTORS TOO."
• And in another instance, a hospital pharmacist broke down at work and told a coworker that she had gone into 200K debt for pharmacy school. "And for what. A fake doctorate. I'm not even a real doctor. The job market sucks. It was a terrible decision"
• And one final example, a clinical pharmacist we recently hired from retail world made the fatal mistake of telling the physician how to do his job. "No, I disagree with your prognosis. As a doctor of pharmacy, I don't want to dispense that medication for this patient because I think it's futile to treat this patient." Holy S#$%. That physician almost murdered that pharmacist. Only by the Grace of God and the steel-like fortitude of our DOP was an outright bloodbath prevented. I guess that 'clinical pharmacist' title went a little to his head. He got a little too excited with that nice white coat he gets to wear in the hospital. We all learned a valuable lesson that day. Until our lobbyists fetch us more privileges, we suggest.

I think the rosy picture that pharmacy schools (especially new diploma mills) paint of pharmacy is unrealistic. They promote this fantasy that we are doctors of drugs, but that doctorate title is a terrible description of the profession. Sure, some pharmacists get lucky and get to do neat doctor-like stuff at big academic centers. But the truth is, most other pharmacists cannot even do these doctor-like things. I have seen too many pharmacists disappointed when reality sets in. The pharmacists who are not taken in by this fantasy are better adjusted and happier with their lot in the healthcare world.

PAs, who only have a masters degree can prescribe and treat patients. Nurse practitioners, who know less about drugs than pharmacists can also prescribe medications. Both these occupations can do what many in pharmacy academia wish that pharmacists could do. Our doctorate and title 'doctor' is a meaningless tchotchke. It has not brought meaningful increase in our scope of practice in comparison to the RPh.

And from what I've seen, the move from RPh to PharmD has brought so much detriment to the profession. It has allowed schools to jack up the price of tuition and made the Pharmacy profession a cash cow for greedy colleges. Nowadays, people who have never worked as a pharmacist can now become pharmacy professors (since the PharmD is a terminal degree.) This has contributed to the metastatic spread of new pharmacy schools across this country. Back in the day, you had to be a well-established pharmacist with experience to become a pharmacy professor. Now that is not the case. Pharmacy schools are unlike the other professional schools in healthcare. Medical schools and nursing schools are taught by professionals who are still active or have many years of experience. An MD/DO professor may only teach a few classes, since their real profession is being an active physician. Nursing schools are staffed by experienced nurses who have worked in a variety of settings and are now passing their knowledge to their successors.

But Pharmacy?

You have people who went from pharmacy school -> residency -> pharmacy school professor without having worked a day in the real world. Even professors of experiential learning come from this breed! WTF. I have great respect for the older professors. Many of them ran their own pharmacies or practiced as hospital pharmacists for decades. They are a noble breed and many of them are very humble. They are unlike the newer professors who have no idea what the real world is like (and seem to have some kind of inferiority complex towards physicians. Why God why? Is it that important to be the doctor? Can't they just be proud to be pharmacists?)

So yeah, I think the doctorate is bad for our profession. I still think pharmacists who have worked hard and put their all into this field are amazing professionals. But I think that is in spite of the many things going wrong in this field.

DAMN. WTF. I WENT ON SOME RANT AGAIN. ANOTHER DOOM AND GLOOM PIECE TO ADD TO THE INFERNAL VORTEX THAT IS SDN PHARMACY.

I HAD TWO HOURS TO KILL BETWEEN WORK AND CLASSES, SO I ENDED UP WRITING THIS GARBAGE.

You are right. this whole bs about doctorate degree is ridiculous. I mean it is happening to other profession too, like physical therapy. I mean c mon doctor of physical therapy? You are on point about our scope of practice. Until we get some kinda prescribing authority, this whole degree boosting bs is meaningless.

 

[Digsbe]

I don't know why the "doctor" debate is such a hot thing... And why degrade yourself or the profession? I think the move to a doctorate degree was a means to try and argue that pharmacists should expand their scope (and they should), but progress has been slow.

As a PharmD you have more medication knowledge than any other professional. You've studied and gone through training to be an expert in the safe and effective use of medications. If you disagree with a physician's treatment because it's either unsafe or not efficacious it's your professional duty and liability to contact the prescriber and/or deny filling the prescription. Pharmacists have lost lawsuits arguing "well the doctor wrote it so I filled it" when they didn't do their due diligence to check for safety and efficacy. Ultimately in the eyes of the law when you dispense something under your license it means you believe it's safe for the patient and you endorse the therapy. Your name is put on that too. If it's bad, wrong, or causes harm it's your liability on the line. I'm not going to hush myself because "I don't want to tell the real doctor how to do their job" when I know that it's my job to check for things and take proper actions. If you work inpatient you'll see meds get ordered that are unsafe given a patient's renal/hepatic function or disease state. And when you contact the prescriber to let them know 9 times out of 10 they appreciate it. Practicing dispensing pharmacy and being a pharmacist is not just making sure what's written on a Rx matches what's in a bottle...

The title "doctor" applying to physicians was taken when evidence based medicine was being jump started with medical science being the foundation for treatment. It originally applied to PhD's and people who were experts in their field. The use has sense evolved as physicians (and others) adopted the title with the public perceiving it as doctor = physician, it's much easier to say. That being said, most people also know that a doctor may be a PhD or anyone with a doctorate degree (especially people who have gone through college).

Pharmacists should not try to represent themselves as physicians nor do I think most want to. However, I think it's important to market yourself, your knowledge, and honestly your delegated authority by not undermining the liability and checks involved in dispensing a medication or practicing pharmacy. I've had several physicians say I need to use the title to build trust with patients and colleagues, one of them being the chief of their medical branch for the hospital. At many institutions they referred to the PharmD's as "Dr. X." When on rounds the lead physician would usually introduce the team and say "this is Dr. X the clinical pharmacist." I think it comes across as arrogant and pretentious to introduce yourself with the title, but if someone wishes to use it I think it's duly earned.

The title originally belonged to PhD's denoting one as an expert in their field or a teacher. Pharmacists are both. Most PharmD's went to school for 8 years (I know 6 years gets touted, but only a select few programs offer that) and either way the professional graduate level education you get will be 4 years in length (3 if you go summers in an accelerated program). I don't think we should be belittling ourselves or our education. If you want to advance the profession you need to come across as competent and worthy of trust/respect. Physicians adopted the title for themselves and now it's commonplace. Chiropractors, psychologists, dentists, optometrists, and other non-physician health fields have adopted the title as well and use it commonly. I don't think it's inappropriate for a PharmD to use the title. Pharmacist scope is slowly expanding. There is some progress being made but I'd agree it's definitely not where it needs to be.

 

[lane one]

I picked up a graveyard shift at the hospital on the fly. I end up working til 3AM when I am able to take a lunch break. I open SDN Pharmacy in the break room and I see this:



And I burst out laughing like a f$%#ing mofo. (The pharmacist came in to check on me.)

You sir, have made my day. I still don't know if you're really PO'ed at me or just trying to bring the HEAT. (or both.) So I will apologize. Sorry.

I was just trying to point out the absurd egos that some clinical/hospital pharmacists have and the unrealistic expectations that students have when it comes to getting clinical pharmacist jobs. ASHP may say that residency training is preparing students for clinical pharmacist jobs, but the truth is there aren't enough clinical pharmacist jobs for everyone coming out of residency. Its sad that the ASHP cannot admit to this reality.

So, in short, I just wanted to contribute some doom and gloom to the infernal vortex that is SDN pharmacy.

Plus I work part time for Stefano, so I am unworthy of your presence.

Haha no not PO'ed. Just loved the Red Devil reference and being on first name basis with Larry (thought I was the only who threw his name around like that).

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

I don't know why the "doctor" debate is such a hot thing... And why degrade yourself or the profession? I think the move to a doctorate degree was a means to try and argue that pharmacists should expand their scope (and they should), but progress has been slow.

As a PharmD you have more medication knowledge than any other professional. You've studied and gone through training to be an expert in the safe and effective use of medications. If you disagree with a physician's treatment because it's either unsafe or not efficacious it's your professional duty and liability to contact the prescriber and/or deny filling the prescription. Pharmacists have lost lawsuits arguing "well the doctor wrote it so I filled it" when they didn't do their due diligence to check for safety and efficacy. Ultimately in the eyes of the law when you dispense something under your license it means you believe it's safe for the patient and you endorse the therapy. Your name is put on that too. If it's bad, wrong, or causes harm it's your liability on the line. I'm not going to hush myself because "I don't want to tell the real doctor how to do their job" when I know that it's my job to check for things and take proper actions. If you work inpatient you'll see meds get ordered that are unsafe given a patient's renal/hepatic function or disease state. And when you contact the prescriber to let them know 9 times out of 10 they appreciate it. Practicing dispensing pharmacy and being a pharmacist is not just making sure what's written on a Rx matches what's in a bottle...

The title "doctor" applying to physicians was taken when evidence based medicine was being jump started with medical science being the foundation for treatment. It originally applied to PhD's and people who were experts in their field. The use has sense evolved as physicians (and others) adopted the title with the public perceiving it as doctor = physician, it's much easier to say. That being said, most people also know that a doctor may be a PhD or anyone with a doctorate degree (especially people who have gone through college).

Pharmacists should not try to represent themselves as physicians nor do I think most want to. However, I think it's important to market yourself, your knowledge, and honestly your delegated authority by not undermining the liability and checks involved in dispensing a medication or practicing pharmacy. I've had several physicians say I need to use the title to build trust with patients and colleagues, one of them being the chief of their medical branch for the hospital. At many institutions they referred to the PharmD's as "Dr. X." When on rounds the lead physician would usually introduce the team and say "this is Dr. X the clinical pharmacist." I think it comes across as arrogant and pretentious to introduce yourself with the title, but if someone wishes to use it I think it's duly earned.

The title originally belonged to PhD's denoting one as an expert in their field or a teacher. Pharmacists are both. Most PharmD's went to school for 8 years (I know 6 years gets touted, but only a select few programs offer that) and either way the professional graduate level education you get will be 4 years in length (3 if you go summers in an accelerated program). I don't think we should be belittling ourselves or our education. If you want to advance the profession you need to come across as competent and worthy of trust/respect. Physicians adopted the title for themselves and now it's commonplace. Chiropractors, psychologists, dentists, optometrists, and other non-physician health fields have adopted the title as well and use it commonly. I don't think it's inappropriate for a PharmD to use the title. Pharmacist scope is slowly expanding. There is some progress being made but I'd agree it's definitely not where it needs to be.

I just want to clarify some things.

As to the last example. This was not a pharmacist correcting a contraindication or potential health risk. Without going into too much detail the whole situation went as follows:

1. Advanced age patient has disease that can be cured through aggressive treatment
2. This aggressive treatment would only extend the patients lifespan by a few months, but would significantly decrease the quality of life during treatment
3. The physician knew this and talked this over with the patient. Patient was adamant about going through with treatment.
4. The physician relents. He respects the patient's decision.
5. The physician sets up a treatment plan and puts in the orders to pharmacy.
6. The pharmacist sees the orders, notices that patient is advanced age and will be undergoing this grueling treatment.
7. The pharmacist fails to realize that physician has already tried to dissuade the patient from treatment
8. The pharmacist gets on the phone with the physician and tells him that he disagrees with going through with the treatment plan (<-- This has nothing to do with contraindications, allergies, etc that a pharmacist would need to bring immediately to the physicians attention; just the pharmacist calling to tell the physician his opinion about the treatment plan and prognosis; the physician already knew this and was PO'ed when the pharmacists decided to lecture him on this matter)
9. Blood vessels in the physicians brain burst. He chews out the pharmacist, and calls the DOP. Physician screams at the DOP, and threatens to take action against pharmacist for his 'unprofessional' behavior.

I have seen newly-minted social workers and nurses 'give' their opinion to physicians. The physicians usually have a stern talk with them when this happens (AKA put them in their place). But the intensity of this doctor was nothing like I've seen before. I just had to share it. I tried to be vague, but I guess anyone here can figure out what the disease is and the treatment in this event. The newly-minted pharmacist just got a little too cocky because of that 'clinical' title and doctorate degree, and got into some turbulence.

I agree with that fact that pharmacists are the cross-check that ensures no contraindications or unsafe medications are given to the patient. Physicians are usually glad when the pharmacist catches a potentially life-threatening mistake. I gave the above example to highlight an instance in which a pharmacist overstepped this traditional role and tried to debate as an equal with a physician. Until pharmacists are legally recognized or reimbursed properly for correcting treatment plans, I think physicians will continue to ignore the majority of advice given to them by pharmacists. Sometimes it feels like physicians only acknowledge our value when a pharmacist catches a mistake.

I did not mean to belittle the profession of pharmacy. I was just ranting about how the change from a bachelors to a doctorate did very little to improve our lot in this world. We still get looked down upon by physicians. Plus it has disappointed a lot of pharmacists who were expecting more from this 'doctorate'. Pharmacists have to deal with MD/DO doctors and nurses who may or may not treat the pharmacist with respect in spite of the doctorate degree. Hence my user name.

 

[Opticalfuture]

The gross pay is still decent if you're already licensed as a pharmacist, especially if you have already spent the effort and loans to become licensed. However, to start from the beginning and rack up $200k+ in loans while spending another 4 years in school would not be worth it. There are better choices, i.e. computer programming, engineering, and finance. In upcoming years though, more of us graduates might have to write off our PharmDs as sunk costs as the job market gets worse.

It tends to be us pharmacists and pharmacy students who complain the most because we have actually been in the trenches. Many pre-pharms have a warped positive view of the field because they have not yet faced real challenges and held real responsibilities.

Exactly like marina22 this is the advice she needs

 

[Weltschadenfreude]

I am under the impression that the saturation is not as bad as this forum makes it sound. Look at threads that disclose job offers and salaries, you'll see that new grads got jobs within 6 months of graduation, and salary is in the $50-70/hour range which is very high. No one is chronically unemployed. Not bad at all from what I see.

 

[CountBy5s]

Fake Chalupa, why are you so concerned about saturation? I feel the people that constantly make these posts are afraid they are mediocre pharmacists that won't find a job with too much competition. I hire pharmacists and it is extremely difficult to find good ones. The pharmacists that are good know it and always have job option



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using SDN mobile

We must also look at the snowflake generation with a different lense. Most have never had a professional career or in some cases even a job prior to pharmacy school. Snowflakes want positive affirmation and a ribbon for every completed task. Retail is a tough job and you get little to no respect as a pharmacist. Retail requires self confidence and the ability to separate work and home lives. If you drag that crap home every day you will become a miserable fat old prune with no friends.

PS. Fake chalupa.. hahaha

 

[GypsyHummus]

I am under the impression that the saturation is not as bad as this forum makes it sound. Look at threads that disclose job offers and salaries, you'll see that new grads got jobs within 6 months of graduation, and salary is in the $50-70/hour range which is very high. No one is chronically unemployed. Not bad at all from what I see.

No, u don't understand, I HAVE to live in New York and or California. There is literally no other place in the world to live.

 

[CountBy5s]

No, u don't understand, I HAVE to live in New York and or California. There is literally no other place in the world to live.

So confused on this post from "gypsy" demanding to live in NY or California. The other 48 states are completely uninhabitable. No where to live

 

[Charcoales]

It's the co-workers that make it stressful. If you have co-workers that snip at you constantly and make everyone feel they have to walk on eggshells if they don't know how to do 100% of everything then **** is going to hit the fan.

 

[Apples2Oranges]

We must also look at the snowflake generation with a different lense. Most have never had a professional career or in some cases even a job prior to pharmacy school. Snowflakes want positive affirmation and a ribbon for every completed task. Retail is a tough job and you get little to no respect as a pharmacist. Retail requires self confidence and the ability to separate work and home lives. If you drag that crap home every day you will become a miserable fat old prune with no friends.

PS. Fake chalupa.. hahaha

I see you are already a pharmacist, but what was your intention on doing pharmacy? Solid career? Good pay? "Care" for patients? Yeah, that's what we were promised years ago. Is it wrong that students today still want it despite the glut of pharmacy schools...that erupted from people of earlier generations? Who is really ruining the profession? The students or the people who build the schools? I don't believe wanting a job out of a 4 year program is a large request. Even pharmacists post here stating that if they only got paid $80k, they would leave. Most of these "snowflakes" don't really need positive affirmation or a cushy job. They just want a job at this point. I do not have a positive view of pharmacy, but don't assume this chaos is due to some underlying privilege.

In regards to software engineering and mechanical engineering, people should know a lot of them are miserable in their fields. The grass must be greener on the other side? My relatives used to work as engineers for IBM and one currently works for Cisco. While you make money, you are constantly scrutinized. You don't make the $100k right away. You start with like $50-60k and MAYBE $90k after a few years (if you're good at what you do). If you are gone, the program is gone. It's hard and isolating. Once you get older, you become easily replaceable by a younger developer. Every job has a drawback. These fields are different.

 

[Rouelle]

Some of the old posts on this thread are excessively long...

(Yes, I realize I contributed nothing here, but it is a short, easy-to-read nothing)

 

[Mao263]

What we told why title Doctor is b/c before 50's or 60's pharmacist were not allowed to talk to patients and consult about medications. It was strictly dispensing.
I worked in the Doctor office for few years and I noticed so many times doctors would get so pissed if pharmacist started arguing with them about drug interactions when Doctor was sure it won't be a problem, cause they know better about patient health state. Or refusing to fill emergency 5 days supply of controlled substance. Especially in prior auth when insurance refused to give medications and made patients to take another ones to try.

I also noticed I my hospital pharmacist are super nice to Doctors, they show so much respect by talking to the mm over the phone. But they talk to nurses in a way different way. Not to mention pharm technicians, they treat them as slaves.

 

[PharmerIsMe]

I am under the impression that the saturation is not as bad as this forum makes it sound. Look at threads that disclose job offers and salaries, you'll see that new grads got jobs within 6 months of graduation, and salary is in the $50-70/hour range which is very high. No one is chronically unemployed. Not bad at all from what I see.

lol, "is not as bad". Well, just like colors, saturation is also subjective. I am pretty sure saturation "is not as bad" in Alaska. However, here in FL, saturation is brutal. I am still unemployed. And many people from the class before me have not been able to secure jobs! not prn or part-time either! 2 years jobless!...Yes, the answer is easy, "well if there are not jobs in your state, then move somewhere else". It would be nicer if you did not have to spend around 1000 dollars/state to be able to practice and have a shot at applying for jobs out of state. This is in addition to moving expenses, etc. God forbid if you have a family and need to move it across the nation.

Also, another issue with saturation is that job conditions decline at the speed of light. Your skills become recyclable, you are just "another one of the thousands", you are as replaceable as toilet paper, you become compliant with all the BS they throw at you, you are in-mute mode. You get the "pharmacy manager" or "pharmacist-in-charge" job because the law requires it, not because corporate wants you. All while receiving emails from your beloved student loan servicer aka "we have one goal: we are here to help you"...

Being "selfish" is not helpful either. "Oh so I am a pharmacist and I have a job, so I am good", but what about the upcoming THOUSANDS of pharmacists coming up. Isn't professional union/sympathy with your peers one of the essential components that delineates a great career? Instead of being cut-throat because of fear of losing your job? Consider this statement from the AACP website.
AACP - Academic Pharmacy's Vital Statistics

"Total first professional degree enrollment was 63,460 in fall 2015."

Imagine those 63,460 new pharmacists graduating soon. Imagine that ~1000 new pharmacists ready to "eat poop" want your pharmacist job. Add on top of this more pharmacy schools opening up...And no, tuition is not decreasing at all. Even in AACP website they write.

"For fiscal year 2014-15, national mean reported pharmacy school revenues were $28.0 million and median revenues were $18.9 million. The top reported source of revenue was tuition and fees."

The bubble is real, they want government money using you as the "future pharmacist that will be part of the interdisciplinary team of health care members, bla bla, BS!..."

Everything would be awesome if student loans did not exist. You would try pharmacy, apply for the next 5 years, nothing worked. You go and pick another career and keep going. Once you are locked in with the heavy student loans. The opportunity cost of changing careers is abysmal.

 

[Rukn]

lol, "is not as bad". Well, just like colors, saturation is also subjective. I am pretty sure saturation "is not as bad" in Alaska. However, here in FL, saturation is brutal. I am still unemployed. And many people from the class before me have not been able to secure jobs! not prn or part-time either! 2 years jobless!...Yes, the answer is easy, "well if there are not jobs in your state, then move somewhere else". It would be nicer if you did not have to spend around 1000 dollars/state to be able to practice and have a shot at applying for jobs out of state. This is in addition to moving expenses, etc. God forbid if you have a family and need to move it across the nation.

Also, another issue with saturation is that job conditions decline at the speed of light. Your skills become recyclable, you are just "another one of the thousands", you are as replaceable as toilet paper, you become compliant with all the BS they throw at you, you are in-mute mode. You get the "pharmacy manager" or "pharmacist-in-charge" job because the law requires it, not because corporate wants you. All while receiving emails from your beloved student loan servicer aka "we have one goal: we are here to help you"...

Being "selfish" is not helpful either. "Oh so I am a pharmacist and I have a job, so I am good", but what about the upcoming THOUSANDS of pharmacists coming up. Isn't professional union/sympathy with your peers one of the essential components that delineates a great career? Instead of being cut-throat because of fear of losing your job? Consider this statement from the AACP website.
AACP - Academic Pharmacy's Vital Statistics

"Total first professional degree enrollment was 63,460 in fall 2015."

Imagine those 63,460 new pharmacists graduating soon. Imagine that ~1000 new pharmacists ready to "eat poop" want your pharmacist job. Add on top of this more pharmacy schools opening up...And no, tuition is not decreasing at all. Even in AACP website they write.

"For fiscal year 2014-15, national mean reported pharmacy school revenues were $28.0 million and median revenues were $18.9 million. The top reported source of revenue was tuition and fees."

The bubble is real, they want government money using you as the "future pharmacist that will be part of the interdisciplinary team of health care members, bla bla, BS!..."

Everything would be awesome if student loans did not exist. You would try pharmacy, apply for the next 5 years, nothing worked. You go and pick another career and keep going. Once you are locked in with the heavy student loans. The opportunity cost of changing careers is abysmal.

This is the sad, painful truth.

Again, along with the other unemployed and underemployed pharmacists, i hope everything works out for you

 

[quickpic007]

lol, "is not as bad". Well, just like colors, saturation is also subjective. I am pretty sure saturation "is not as bad" in Alaska. However, here in FL, saturation is brutal. I am still unemployed. And many people from the class before me have not been able to secure jobs! not prn or part-time either! 2 years jobless!...Yes, the answer is easy, "well if there are not jobs in your state, then move somewhere else". It would be nicer if you did not have to spend around 1000 dollars/state to be able to practice and have a shot at applying for jobs out of state. This is in addition to moving expenses, etc. God forbid if you have a family and need to move it across the nation.

Also, another issue with saturation is that job conditions decline at the speed of light. Your skills become recyclable, you are just "another one of the thousands", you are as replaceable as toilet paper, you become compliant with all the BS they throw at you, you are in-mute mode. You get the "pharmacy manager" or "pharmacist-in-charge" job because the law requires it, not because corporate wants you. All while receiving emails from your beloved student loan servicer aka "we have one goal: we are here to help you"...

Being "selfish" is not helpful either. "Oh so I am a pharmacist and I have a job, so I am good", but what about the upcoming THOUSANDS of pharmacists coming up. Isn't professional union/sympathy with your peers one of the essential components that delineates a great career? Instead of being cut-throat because of fear of losing your job? Consider this statement from the AACP website.
AACP - Academic Pharmacy's Vital Statistics

"Total first professional degree enrollment was 63,460 in fall 2015."

Imagine those 63,460 new pharmacists graduating soon. Imagine that ~1000 new pharmacists ready to "eat poop" want your pharmacist job. Add on top of this more pharmacy schools opening up...And no, tuition is not decreasing at all. Even in AACP website they write.

"For fiscal year 2014-15, national mean reported pharmacy school revenues were $28.0 million and median revenues were $18.9 million. The top reported source of revenue was tuition and fees."

The bubble is real, they want government money using you as the "future pharmacist that will be part of the interdisciplinary team of health care members, bla bla, BS!..."

Everything would be awesome if student loans did not exist. You would try pharmacy, apply for the next 5 years, nothing worked. You go and pick another career and keep going. Once you are locked in with the heavy student loans. The opportunity cost of changing careers is abysmal.

unsolicited advice--ask school friends to arrange DM interviews personally. Take anything offered from any chain in any location...If that does not work, apply in person at every independent-FT,PT,PRN. Accept any wage, you will not be there long. Get 3-6 months exp and apply to chains and more states, you will get something. Do not forget the USA population is 318 Million. Recruiters still call and mail job flyers in some parts of the USA.