Why are some residents/attendings like this??

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Had an attending tell myself and three other students on the service that he only gives 3/5s to med students. This literally tanks our grades and makes it impossible to get honors. Meanwhile by pure luck other students have an attending who only gives 5s. Do they just not care that this impacts people’s lives?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Had an attending tell myself and three other students on the service that he only gives 3/5s to med students. This literally tanks our grades and makes it impossible to get honors. Meanwhile by pure luck other students have an attending who only gives 5s. Do they just not care that this impacts people’s lives?

Maybe you should explain the grading system and concerns to said attending. Maybe, they don’t exactly know what that means to give out 3/5. Who knows?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Maybe you should explain the grading system

He’s one of those clowns who say “4/5 is senior resident level, 5/5 is attending level”

Absolute clown. Now I’m not going to match surgery because I won’t honor IM

 

[LunaOri]

He’s one of those clowns who say “4/5 is senior resident level, 5/5 is attending level”

Absolute clown. Now I’m not going to match surgery because I won’t honor IM

You can still match surgery without honoring IM. Focus on doing as well as you can, and learn how to manage the stress associated with things you cannot control.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

You can still match surgery without honoring IM. Focus on doing as well as you can, and learn how to manage the stress associated with things you cannot control.

Thank you!

It does likely mean I won’t get AOA though

 

[GoSpursGo]

Get with your co-med students and report to the clerkship director. May not do anything, but if the attending has explicitly told you that he is going to grade on his own made up metric rather than how is intended, then it’s demonstrably unfair and biased. Depending on the clerkship director, they may or may not do something about it

 

[Lost in Translation]

Thank you!

It does likely mean I won’t get AOA though

So? Not all Gen Surg residents are AOA. Unless you are aiming for a super top prestigious brand name program you’ll be fine; they largely match from other super top prestigious brand name med schools anyway.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

So? Not all Gen Surg residents are AOA. Unless you are aiming for a super top prestigious brand name program you’ll be fine; they largely match from other super top prestigious brand name med schools anyway.

True but AOA is basically guaranteed surgery match. It’s like 97/100 and the 3 who didn’t probably only applied to Uber top programs

 

[AJS59]

True but AOA is basically guaranteed surgery match. It’s like 97/100 and the 3 who didn’t probably only applied to Uber top programs

Is it necessarily? It's likely that those who got AOA also had other outstanding features — high Step 2, good # of pubs, good away rotations and faculty impressions. All of which is very much in your control.

 

[operaman]

You can definitely go the clerkship director route. Should be easy for them to look at all his last evals and if he truly does give every student a 3 no matter what then that’s not right. Statistically, it’s highly improbable he’s never worked with an honors level student before, so if he’s just being arbitrarily lazy in his grading then that’s needs to be taken into account.

Alternatively, you could also try what I did when my clerkship director who was also my surgery attending told me on day one of surgery clerkship that he’s never given someone honors level marks in their first clerkship block. I looked him in the eye and told him I fully intended to be the first and was prepared to work as hard as I could to do it. And I did.

So either way can work - do whatever feels right to you.

 

[mistafab]

You guys are overestimating the power of a single attending.

The clerkship director likely already knows this person's pattern. Even so, talking with the clerkship director is fine and can be helpful - this is literally their job.

 

[Dral]

When we are reviewing residents' standing each year, they are given a score based on how they progress. In most of the many areas, a first year resident, despite how much of a superstar they are, will get middle of the road to lower scores because it is based on progression.

This attending may be familiar with this system and be mistaken with applying the same concept to medical student grading. It might just take someone to explain the difference to them. Agree with others with talking to the clerkship director.

 

[Shunsui]

The clerkship director will say, "3/5 is good, that means you're doing what's expected of a med student at your current level. One evaluation won't end your career."

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The clerkship director will say, "3/5 is good, that means you're doing what's expected of a med student at your current level. One evaluation won't end your career."

Ya it’s ridiculous, literally 99% of third year is luck with resident scheduling and site placement, kissing up to residents by buying them stuff (or giving other things in some instances). All schools should make clerkships p/f and go back to scored step 1

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Ya it’s ridiculous, literally 99% of third year is luck with resident scheduling and site placement, kissing up to residents by buying them stuff (or giving other things in some instances). All schools should make clerkships p/f and go back to scored step 1

Why are you buying things for residents? That’s weird and totally inappropriate if the residents are encouraging it. If anything I try to buy coffee or whatever for the med students because I get paid to be here and they don’t.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Why are you buying things for residents? That’s weird and totally inappropriate if the residents are encouraging it. If anything I try to buy coffee or whatever for the med students because I get paid to be here and they don’t.

I’ve never done it but people definitely do (I’ve seen/heard things ranging from baked goods on last day to sexual favors on night shifts)

 

[DOVinciRobot]

I’ve never done it but people definitely do (I’ve seen/heard things ranging from baked goods on last day to sexual favors on night shifts)

What the fudge…

This isn’t greys anatomy…

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I’ve never done it but people definitely do (I’ve seen/heard things ranging from baked goods on last day to sexual favors on night shifts)

Sexual favors…

Sounds like a scandal waiting to happen! Or maybe just rumors as usual.

 

[AJS59]

Sexual favors…

Sounds like a scandal waiting to happen! Or maybe just rumors as usual.

I mean for what it's worth I have heard of a student dating their own standardized patient, so unless that's another unfounded rumor it may happen more than you think?

 

[RangerBob]

So in other news, people are still people and are either looking for love, lust, power, or special treatment.

I'm willing to guess most of the rumors of med students doing "favors" for residents, if true, are actually due to a mutual interest/attraction between two relatively young/single adults.

I mean, it's almost like we're trying to get people to do this. Stick two young folks together with late nights, ample opportunities for one-on-one chats/discussions about life and each other (if it gets slow in a hospital overnigh,t it can get slooooowwwww). If that attraction builds into something more then the fact there's a call room just down the hallway isn't exactly helping put the breaks on any inappropriate activity (inappropriate in the hospital-it's fine outside if it's mutual).

Fire-able (for resident)/dismiss-able (for med student) offense? Absolutely. But seriously, are we trying to make life more like TV?

I'm much more a fan of Scrubs than Grey's Anatomy (I never liked Grey's... but I love Scrubs). And it really gets the human behavior side of things quite right. Most of us are just looking for love.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I'm willing to guess most of the rumors of med students doing "favors" for residents, if true, are actually due to a mutual interest/attraction between two relatively young/single adults

In some cases, but definitely not all. There’s one girl who wants to do ortho in my class and she flirts with all male residents very aggressive. I don’t think she’s attracted to 5’6 bald residents with 15+ years on her

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I mean for what it's worth I have heard of a student dating their own standardized patient, so unless that's another unfounded rumor it may happen more than you think?

I feel like there’s a difference between students and standardized patients vs students and residents. One of these 2 cases involves someone who holds a position of “power” over the other. I also feel like there’s a difference between “dating” and “sexual favors”. I don’t know, it must be me I guess.

 

[RangerBob]

In some cases, but definitely not all. There’s one girl who wants to do ortho in my class and she flirts with all male residents very aggressive. I don’t think she’s attracted to 5’6 bald residents with 15+ years on her

Who are we to judge what her preferences are?

Flirting is very different than inappropriate sexual relationships.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Who are we to judge what her preferences are?

Flirting is very different than inappropriate sexual relationships.

She’s clearly doing it to gain an advantage and it’s obvious. I’m sure her preferences aren’t for a Seinfeld character lookalike when her boyfriend is a 6’3 male model looks med device rep


Also I don’t of her personally going through with the sexual relationships part but I know it does happen at my school. One even slept with a community internal medicine attending

 

[RangerBob]

She’s clearly doing it to gain an advantage and it’s obvious. I’m sure her preferences aren’t for a Seinfeld character lookalike when her boyfriend is a 6’3 male model looks med device rep


Also I don’t of her personally going through with the sexual relationships part but I know it does happen at my school. One even slept with a community internal medicine attending

That could be true. Or she could just be being nice. Men notoriously misinterpret female friendliness/kindness as flirting.

Presumably if she was flirting to residents to gain an advantage, someone would have talked with her. I'm married, and if I had a med student flirting inappropriately with me and the other residents, it's something I'd discuss with my attending or her clerkship director.

If this is truly going on and it hasn't been addressed with her clerkship director, then it should be. But it should come from the residents, not other med students.

But again, people are going to be people. I'd encourage all not to get sucked up into the gossip of med school--half (at least) of it is false. The accuracy rate is on par with high school gossip. It's also a quick way to looking deeply unprofessional if an attending or patient overhears it--even if you're not the one doing the gossiping.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

That could be true. Or she could just be being nice. Men notoriously misinterpret female friendliness/kindness as flirting.

Presumably if she was flirting to residents to gain an advantage, someone would have talked with her. I'm married, and if I had a med student flirting inappropriately with me and the other residents, it's something I'd discuss with my attending or her clerkship director.

If this is truly going on and it hasn't been addressed with her clerkship director, then it should be. But it should come from the residents, not other med students.

But again, people are going to be people. I'd encourage all not to get sucked up into the gossip of med school--half (at least) of it is false. The accuracy rate is on par with high school gossip. It's also a quick way to looking deeply unprofessional if an attending or patient overhears it--even if you're not the one doing the gossiping.

I mean, I get the part about being nice and that’s usually the man himself misinterpreting but as a third party observer it’s pretty easy to see

 

[LucidSplash]

Oh cool another “story” about a woman who wants to go into a competitive field flirting or sleeping her way to the top.

I’m gonna call BS on you even mentioning this. This is just gossip and it is harmful to women who are pursuing or are in surgical fields… actually in all fields.

I made a cheesecake once as a med student when we had a month-end dinner as a team of med students and residents. I wasn’t trying to curry favor. I liked to bake and it was something I could do to contribute and thank the residents for the teaching. I wasn’t kissing up I was being a human being sharing an experience with other humans. Oh and it was an all male team as well, except for me. And I definitely wasn’t flirting with them.

GTFO with the heavily misogynistic tone of your posts here.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Oh cool another “story” about a woman who wants to go into a competitive field flirting or sleeping her way to the top.

I’m gonna call BS on you even mentioning this. This is just gossip and it is harmful to women who are pursuing or are in surgical fields… actually in all fields.

I made a cheesecake once as a med student when we had a month-end dinner as a team of med students and residents. I wasn’t trying to curry favor. I liked to bake and it was something I could do to contribute and thank the residents for the teaching. I wasn’t kissing up I was being a human being sharing an experience with other humans. Oh and it was an all male team as well, except for me. And I definitely wasn’t flirting with them.

GTFO with the heavily misogynistic tone of your posts here.

Lmao the internal medicine one literally told us about it lmao

Bragging at didactics. Granted that attending was pretty good looking but she definitely emphasized the fact that it would have a positive impact on her eval (that they filled out together). Has a ldr boyfriend who is a resident btw

How is it misogynistic? i never even said gender. But anyway a guy in my class who literally looks like a Calvin Klein model and he’s the only guy who has honored all rotations thus far.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I made a cheesecake once as a med student when we had a month-end dinner as a team of med students and residents. I wasn’t trying to curry favo

Clearly different than buying everybody on the team egg sandwiches and coffee without telling any of the other students. It’s not a money thing, I have 250k in the bank right now, but would never do something like that because it’s a pos move and to the med students who are living paycheck to paycheck and can’t even afford 25 bucks to pitch in to a team breakfast

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Clearly different than buying everybody on the team egg sandwiches and coffee without telling any of the other students. It’s not a money thing, I have 250k in the bank right now, but would never do something like that because it’s a pos move and to the med students who are living paycheck to paycheck and can’t even afford 25 bucks to pitch in to a team breakfast

Idk what your school is like, maybe it’s full of weird gunners, but I’ve worked on a lot of teams at this point and the only people who do this in normal places are attendings or upper level residents

This type of “ass kissing” just does not happen as often as people think it does unless you approach literally every human interaction like some kind of financial exchange. Which sounds exhausting to me

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Idk what your school is like, maybe it’s full of weird gunners, but I’ve worked on a lot of teams at this point and the only people who do this in normal places are attendings or upper level residents

This type of “ass kissing” just does not happen as often as people think it does unless you approach literally every human interaction like some kind of financial exchange. Which sounds exhausting to me

She bought egg sandwiches and coffee for everybody and made sure to know if was from her. She got extremely good surgical evals despite leaving at 3pm everyday in a clerkship where only 10% get honors. Take from that what you will

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

She bought egg sandwiches and coffee for everybody and made sure to know if was from her. She got extremely good surgical evals despite leaving at 3pm everyday in a clerkship where only 10% get honors. Take from that what you will

Sounds like you have one specific weird gunner and maybe some ****ty residents at your school. I promise it’s not the norm, nor is it aspirational

 

[DO2015CA]

Clearly different than buying everybody on the team egg sandwiches and coffee without telling any of the other students. It’s not a money thing, I have 250k in the bank right now, but would never do something like that because it’s a pos move and to the med students who are living paycheck to paycheck and can’t even afford 25 bucks to pitch in to a team breakfast

If anyone bought me an egg sandwich as a bribe they go to jail, immediately

 

[RangerBob]

Clearly different than buying everybody on the team egg sandwiches and coffee without telling any of the other students. It’s not a money thing, I have 250k in the bank right now, but would never do something like that because it’s a pos move and to the med students who are living paycheck to paycheck and can’t even afford 25 bucks to pitch in to a team breakfast

Students brought in food (especially baked goods) all the time for the team when I was a med student (and intern, resident, fellow...).

I always took it as a sign of genuine appreciation and not attempt to curry favor. Those who brought in the food/coffee always seemed to be genuinely trying to be nice/grateful/considerate of the team.

Being kind/considerate of others can go a long way. Yes some people may try to gain the system by going too far/making gunner moves, and maybe even trying to flirt their way to the top. But, I find more often that people are just being honest, kind, and nice, and that others sometimes assume the worst in them.

 

[LucidSplash]

Lmao the internal medicine one literally told us about it lmao

Bragging at didactics. Granted that attending was pretty good looking but she definitely emphasized the fact that it would have a positive impact on her eval (that they filled out together). Has a ldr boyfriend who is a resident btw

How is it misogynistic? i never even said gender. But anyway a guy in my class who literally looks like a Calvin Klein model and he’s the only guy who has honored all rotations thus far.

You absolutely mentioned gender.

In some cases, but definitely not all. There’s one girl who wants to do ortho in my class and she flirts with all male residents very aggressive. I don’t think she’s attracted to 5’6 bald residents with 15+ years on her

She’s clearly doing it to gain an advantage and it’s obvious. I’m sure her preferences aren’t for a Seinfeld character lookalike when her boyfriend is a 6’3 male model looks med device rep


Also I don’t of her personally going through with the sexual relationships part but I know it does happen at my school. One even slept with a community internal medicine attending

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

well it applies to guys as well. Many MM looking guys getting honors on OBGYN by applying the same principles

 

[DrStephenStrange]

well it applies to guys as well. Many MM looking guys getting honors on OBGYN by applying the same principles

IDK man, I may be wrong about this, but I feel like you may be over analyzing a lot of just simple human-human interaction going on around you. It may be the stress of medical school, or your self centered desire to do so well in order to match competitively into your dream surgical field rendering you blind, or maybe you just enjoy trolling us behind the anonymity of these forums, or maybe it’s your personality (not saying it is because IDK you personally). Although, judging by your previous threads where you tend to assume extreme hypothetical scenarios especially about AI/NPs taking over everything in the medical field, I’d say maybe I’m not too far from the truth.

However, I’ve had students surprise me with food many times as a resident (donuts, sandwiches, coffee, homemade baked goods etc). Never once did I think they were trying to bribe me or flirt with me, but those were usually the nicer and considerate students I have had. Those who recognized that I work 60-70 hrs a week, and yet I still take time to teach them, go over their notes, neuroexam, and/or presentations with them before going infront of the attending, and make sure they are simply doing Ok and leaving at decent time everyday. Those students I’d say are just cognizant of their surroundings and have a good grasp on how to be good productive parts of the team.

Now, I also make sure my students have plenty of fuel throughout the day (they’re never missing lunch). I don’t mind spending my meal stipend for anyone at anytime if needed. So do I consider them buying food for the team bribery? Absolutely not, instead I think it’s just good human to human reciprocal interaction. A team is dependent on all its parts to function well, and being a compassionate, respectful, and caring human being is part of that.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Between your doom beliefs that AI will replace all physicians in 10 years, and seeing every med student/resident/attending interaction as a financial transaction for grades, and questioning every possible speed bump as the end of your surgical aspirations…..

This isn’t healthy, nor is any of it based in reality. You need some help. Get off the internet.

 

[Rapsidy]

If you spent as much time focusing on yourself as you do others…

Seriously, what do these points or stories have to do with anything? You have no control over others, yet you sit here obsessively analyzing their behaviors and reactions.

Life isn’t fair, people use advantages they have. Get over it.

 

[DO2015CA]

If you spent as much time focusing on yourself as you do others…

Seriously, what do these points or stories have to do with anything? You have no control over others, yet you sit here obsessively analyzing their behaviors and reactions.

Life isn’t fair, people use advantages they have. Get over it.

It’s a coping mechanism so if they fail to match where/what they want then they can rationalize that they didn’t flirt enough

 

[hellosnd]

He’s one of those clowns who say “4/5 is senior resident level, 5/5 is attending level”

Absolute clown. Now I’m not going to match surgery because I won’t honor IM

you won't match surgery with your attitude.

 

[DarkHorizon]

He’s one of those clowns who say “4/5 is senior resident level, 5/5 is attending level”

Absolute clown. Now I’m not going to match surgery because I won’t honor IM

Relax bud, you’re not gonna make it through a surgical residency if you stress out this much.

 

[xDNA]

I offered to get the team coffee I believe once and it was politely declined because it just so happened that the senior resident was bringing baked goods and coffee for us that same morning. The only time i brought baked goods was when my mother made extra of something i dont remember if it was cake, or cookies or something and so I left it in the resident room for everyone to eat. When I offered to bring in coffee it was the last day of the rotation and i just really enjoyed the team even if i didnt care for the rotation as a whole. With how inconsistent clerkships can be in terms of quality of education and experiences provided. I just wanted to show a little token of my appreciation for giving me a really good rotation experience. Definitely loved when the senior residents bought me things though, lol or attendings that bought dinner for the team when we were on late call.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I offered to get the team coffee I believe once and it was politely declined because it just so happened that the senior resident was bringing baked goods and coffee for us that same morning.

Oh no, you’ll need to be faster next time. Maybe try your “😖 Thunder Breathing First Form ⚡️” jk.

 

[CHIOTR]

She’s clearly doing it to gain an advantage and it’s obvious. I’m sure her preferences aren’t for a Seinfeld character lookalike when her boyfriend is a 6’3 male model looks med device rep


Also I don’t of her personally going through with the sexual relationships part but I know it does happen at my school. One even slept with a community internal medicine attending

well it applies to guys as well. Many MM looking guys getting honors on OBGYN by applying the same principles

Sometimes, people who are attractive grow up with more confidence. That confidence can make their interactions appear more energetic and lively.

Someone who has a sparkling personality who is fun to be around can often be misconstrued as flirting by people who are less confident in their own interactions. It doesn't mean they're being inappropriate. It sometimes just means they are more socially adept than the rest of the team, in part because growing up attractive means that at times you're treated better and your social options can be more robust.

But those benefits come with a downside when people classify their interactions with suspicion rather than just accepting that medicine, for all its science and research and facts, is inherently also a field where personality matters for most specialties. So people exhibiting behavior that makes their audience feel good are actually demonstrating the skills that separate a good doctor from one people will rave about and recommend to their friends. Because they feel seen, heard, and valued.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Sexual favors…

Sounds like a scandal waiting to happen! Or maybe just rumors as usual.

To be fair, at my school it was a poorly kept secret among our year that one of our classmates slept with a Neurosurg resident during their clerkship, though no one thought it was to get ahead (they weren’t even applying to NSGY).

Not to excuse OP’s attitude at all, but it can happen.

 

[Lost in Translation]

where to see that 97/100 stat?

Bro just trust