Why are some SDNers so racist?

[LUBDUBB]

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After reading a bunch of these AA posts, I'm sure many of you will agree that some of these posts are racist and downright offensive.

I've read soo many bigoted posts; It scares me that some of these people will go into medicine.

~Lubdubb

 

[thezero]

That's why you need to go into medicine to counter act the process.🙂

-0-

 

[trubluwolv]

doctors may be among one of the most educated groups in a population, but that does not insulate them from narrow-mindedness, racism, bigotry, or anything else questionable.

i suppose because i've grown up around a lot of physicians, i am not inclined to holding them to a higher standard than anyone else. i've met some really exceptional ones AND some true a**holes.

doctors are only people--unfortunately, they can be just as jerky and erred as the next person...

 

[TexasGuy41]

I just want to point out that being vehemently anti-Affirmative Action does not in ANY way make someone racist. Nor does it make them pro-white, or a suppremicist, or a bigot. It just means they don't think AA is a just system.

I agree, some people on SDN are racist, or if they aren't - they make dumb jokes and come off sounding racist. But please don't think someone is racist just because they are mad that URMs have such an easy way into med school. It is a completely different issue.

I personally think AA in med school admissions is BS, and I think every person should earn their way in. But that has nothing to do with me being racist. I also think Legacy admissions are BS.

In defense of some people, many URMs on SDN are VERY VERY quick to drop the racist card once a discussion starts to heat up, and that tends to inflame everyones passions. Just my .02.

 

[tBw]

How many doctors have you met that had a 'God' complex. They were once pre-meds like us SDNers. It makes sense to me that people that are always convinced they are right never bother to challenge some of the odd or bigoted preconceptions they hold. In order to change or grow you have to be willing to listen. Some premeds (like many non-premeds) just aren't willing to hear the other side of the story, or put themselves in another persons shoes. They (arrogantly) believe they (always) already know better than you, and arguing their point becomes almost a "point of honor" as if admitting they had not considered what the other person is saying somehow means they are not as smart as they thought they were. They therefore argue any point ad infinitum - their purpose being to "win" not necessarily to discuss or learn....

 

[klinzou]

I just want to point out that being vehemently anti-Affirmative Action does not in ANY way make someone racist. Nor does it make them pro-white, or a suppremicist, or a bigot. It just means they don't think AA is a just system.

I agree, some people on SDN are racist, or if they aren't - they make dumb jokes and come off sounding racist. But please don't think someone is racist just because they are mad that URMs have such an easy way into med school. It is a completely different issue.

I personally think AA in med school admissions is BS, and I think every person should earn their way in. But that has nothing to do with me being racist. I also think Legacy admissions are BS.

In defense of some people, many URMs on SDN are VERY VERY quick to drop the racist card once a discussion starts to heat up, and that tends to inflame everyones passions. Just my .02.

Very well said Texasguy, and I agree with it all completely.

 

[LUBDUBB]

Originally posted by TexasGuy41
I just want to point out that being vehemently anti-Affirmative Action does not in ANY way make someone racist. Nor does it make them pro-white, or a suppremicist, or a bigot. It just means they don't think AA is a just system.

I agree, some people on SDN are racist, or if they aren't - they make dumb jokes and come off sounding racist. But please don't think someone is racist just because they are mad that URMs have such an easy way into med school. It is a completely different issue.

I personally think AA in med school admissions is BS, and I think every person should earn their way in. But that has nothing to do with me being racist. I also think Legacy admissions are BS.

In defense of some people, many URMs on SDN are VERY VERY quick to drop the racist card once a discussion starts to heat up, and that tends to inflame everyones passions. Just my .02.

I don't have a problem with people expressing their viewpoints on AA. But often those who vehemently oppose AA make certain racial implications in their arguments, which most people find offensive. Aside from that, those who do post vehement anti-AA comments come off as bitter. Their tone seems to reflect the feeling that their well-deserved med school spot was somehow "stolen" by a URM.

I'm not saying people shoudln't have the right to discuss AA, but in doing so they should be careful about making implicitly racist remarks.

Although your comment wasn't directed at me, I just wanted to clarify, I am not a URM "quick to drop the race card" in the heat of discussion . I'm a first generation european immigrant writing about my observations on SDN.

~Lubdubb

 

[TexasGuy41]

Lubdub,

I don't care who or what you are. Thats the whole point - it SHOULDN"T MATTER WHAT COLOR YOU ARE. Down with race-based admissions!

 

[Pre-Dent-David]

Sorry texas but you are racist since you disagree with lubbdubb. And anyone who disagrees with me is racist. Also you are probably racist anyway even if you dont.

 

[Pre-Dent-David]

Also I was being sarcastic

 

[dr2be]

I normally don't reply to post like this, but I am so sick to death of people talking about how "easy" it is for URMs to get into med school. Excluding the historically black schools, most med schools don't have a URM enrollment of more than 20%. If it's even that high. That means that 80% are non-URM. How many schools have 6 URM students out of 100? Come on, now. URMs definitely "taking over" the med school population.

 

[trubluwolv]

dr2be--
your post begs the question:
how many URMs are applying to med school?

believe you me, i don't think it's cake for URMs to get into med school. but i also don't think that URMs make up 50% of the kids applying to med school... you catch my drift? if URMs make up 20% of an incoming med school class, it's probably more reflective of the number that apply....

please correct me if i'm missing something.

 

[alphabeta53]

dr2be
The # of URMs in med school and how easy it is for them to get in isn't necessarily correlated. Your argument is wrong. Rub one out in the shower and try again.

 

[TexasGuy41]

Thats actually a good question - I haven't seen any URM only admissions data, but I sure would like to. Does anyone know the number of URMs that apply to med school each year, and the number that get accepted?

PS - I never said it was cake for URMs to get into med school, but its definitely cake COMPARED to non URMs.

 

[trubluwolv]

TexasGuy--
it's all relative, i agree. i was not accusing you of saying it's cake... i did not want dr2be to misunderstand my ?.

and in reference to another one of your posts--i do not think that not supporting AA makes a person a racist. while i support AA, i also acknowledge that it's a grossly imperfect system.

 

[skypilot]

Doesn't matter how you got in. Maybe you got in because your daddy had money for prep school and a Kaplan course.

You still have to pass all the Med school courses and take the USMLE to become a doctor.

Stop whining and hit the books.

 

[Ernham]

It looks like AAMCAS took down the pdf file that had a lot of that information on it. If I remember right, less than 1/3 of URMs that are admitted to medical schools would not have been admitted if they were not given preferential treatment. There *is* a pdf floating around out there with the info on it, but it appears AAMCAS has tucked it away, perhaps in anticipation of the supreme court ruling. Heh.

 

[LUBDUBB]

Texas guy,

I believe this is where you can find your stats:


http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg52002a.htm


Just under 1/2 of URMS who applied get in, same for non-urms

Now obviously this doesn't say anything about the stats (how easy/hard) to get in.

~Lubdubb

 

[TexasGuy41]

I feel like the URM admissions data is deliberately under reported by many schools. Its a dirty little secret how easy it is for them to get in. Granted they still have to take the MCATs, and go through AMCAS, but it just isn't that hard once you've done that.

Check out http://mdapplicants.com and look at the URM applicants. 25 and 26's galore and they all got tons of interviews and acceptances. Now you're telling me that they got those interviews because of reasons OTHER THAN THEIR SKIN? No way!

 

[skypilot]

Got even more Caucasian applicants that were accepted with mediocre scores too (sub 27)! What a conspiracy!

 

[TexasGuy41]

Hey Einstein,

of course you got a greater NUMBER of caucasian applicants that were accepted. I'm talking percentages here

 

[klinzou]

Texas guy,

I believe this is where you can find your stats:


http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg52002a.htm


Just under 1/2 of URMS who applied get in, same for non-urms

Now obviously this doesn't say anything about the stats (how easy/hard) to get in.

~Lubdubb

Are you kidding? Did you get in?? The intelligence in your statement shows me that you can't possibly have gotten in to med school. The above fact is based on a percentage. Statistics is based on numerations, and the fact is. If 1/2 of both URM's and non's both get in, it doesn't matter. What matters is how many apply!! 20-30% maybe?? If 1/2 of the much smaller number that is applying get in, it clearly DOES say something about the stats

 

[TexasGuy41]

Thank you Klinzou!

1/2 of how many lubdub? You must have tested out of Stats.

Lubdub, if you are saying that URMs have the SAME chance as non URMs, then you my friend are wrong.

 

[klinzou]

nCr

 

[skypilot]

Hey I pointed out that there are plenty of non URM applicants out there who were accepted with sub par scores.

Being a URM confers a statistical advantage when applying for med school as it should until racism is eliminated from society. Obviously from reading the posts here and looking back over this country's recent history it hasn't been.

Being rich confers an advantage too as you can afford Kaplan and prep school.

Fact is we need more minority doctors and more bilingual doctors too.

 

[klinzou]

You want Kaplan?
Get a job or get a loan.
It's not hard to obtain what you want if you really want it.

 

[skypilot]

How bout a prep school and a private college education? Can I get those too?

How about a parent who had the right to vote when they turned 18 years old? Can I get that?

 

[tBw]

Originally posted by Street Philosopher
i win yuo!

thats because, as we have already agreed, I am always wrong 😉

"all your SP are belong to me..."

 

[earthwhisper]

Originally posted by TexasGuy41
Lubdub,

I don't care who or what you are. Thats the whole point - it SHOULDN"T MATTER WHAT COLOR YOU ARE. Down with race-based admissions!

- Don't know where u are from or what country u live in but I happen to live in a place called the United States and IT MATTERS WHAT COLOR YOU ARE HONEY!

- This may be subtle but it means something when the so-called flesh colored bandages, pantyhoses, and everything else only depicts one groups 'flesh' color.

- It goes along way when most if not all of your great great great great grandparents were slaves with no assests and most of their white counterparts (whether immigrants or not) were allowed to at least earn a living receive benefits from the gov't FOR FREE (PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR AMERICAN HISTORY AND KNOW THAT TONS OF LAND, ACESS TO SHARES IN INDUSTRIES AS AIRLINES, AND OTHER CORPORATIONS E.T.C. WERE ONLY GIVEN TO WHITES IN THE HOMESTEAD ACT AND SO ON , WITH NO BLACKS EXCEPT A FEW WHOSE MASTERS DECIDED TO GIVE THEM A MINUTE SHARE WHICH HARDLY AMOUNTED TO ANYTHING..... So hence.....Not to say that all blacks IN the US are doomed BUT

- There is something to be said when an entire race comes from absolutely nothing and are supposed to be standing on a level playing field.......And those on the other side have any nerve to bitch about it....THERE WAS ALOT OF AA GOING ON AND THERE STILL IS when blacks could not get into college, even outstanding smart blacks b/c of the color of their skin, AND NOT SO SMART WHITES WOULD GET IN BEFORE THEY DID...., so please save the bitterness for your grandparents ot whoever...

- I honestly don't think two wrongs will make a right but Until some other idea is brought up as to how to play catch up, then I really don't want to hear anyone'S crap, .......You may not think your comments are racist but to people who benefit from AA or even begin to have a chance because of it, those comments even if not racist or plain ignorant! THERS ALWAYS EUROPE AND THE CARRIBEAN, THEY WERE MUCH NICER TO THEIR SLAVES. gOOD LUCK!

 

[FREE MCAT ?]

Originally posted by klinzou

It's not hard to obtain what you want if you really want it.

Specially if you come from a well endowed family. Or even better from a family whose well-endowment can be traced back to the profits of slavery or segregation.

 

[earthwhisper]

That msg. was for Texas guy,.....Maybe you should spend more time studying and peparing for med school and not in becoming an expert in how many of 'them' get in or will be getting in...

FYI 'them' is often taken as a racist or ignorant remark especially when applied to any minority group, in case you didn't know that

 

[Ernham]

" Don't know where u are from or what country u live in but I happen to live in a place called the United States and IT MATTERS WHAT COLOR YOU ARE HONEY!"

Of course it does. It has some rather interesting effects on IQ.

"- This may be subtle but it means something when the so-called flesh colored bandages, pantyhoses, and everything else only depicts one groups 'flesh' color."

I'm sure that you would be willing to pay the extra 5 bucks per box because of all the overhead of carrying 60 shades of brown to black.

"- It goes along way when most if not all of your great great great grandparents were slaves with no assests and most of their white counterparts (whether immigrants or not) were allowed to at least earn a living receive benefits from the gov't FOR FREE (PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR AMERICAN HISTORY AND KNOW THAT TONS OF LAND, ACESS TO SHARES IN INDUSTRIES AS AIRLINES, AND OTHER CORPORATIONS E.T.C. WERE ONLY GIVEN TO WHITES IN THE HOMESTEAD ACT AND SO ON , WITH NO BLACKS EXCEPT A FEW WHOSE MASTERS DECIDED TO GIVE THEM A MINUTE SHARE WHICH HARDLY AMOUNTED TO ANYTHING..... So hence.....Not to say that all blacks IN the US are doomed BUT"

First off, the blacks sold into slavery were already slaves and all their children's children would have also been slaves in Africa; black africans still enslave(and eat) one another today. Secondly, some of the biggest slave owners in the ante-bellum south were actually blacks. By far the biggest in Louisiana. Thirdly, YOU need to read some history. I recommend "They were white and they were slaves."

"- There is something to be said when an entire race comes from absolutely nothing and are supposed to be standing on a level playing field.......And those on the other side have any nerve to bitch about it....THERE WAS A LOT OF AA GOING ON AND THERE STILL IS when blacks could not get into college, even outstanding smart blacks b/c of the color of their skin, AND NOT SO SMART WHITES WOULD GET IN BEFORE THEY DID...., so please save the bitterness for your grandparents ot whoever..."

Blah, blah, and today? Education has been out of reach for everyone that was not wealthy until relatively recently. I guess you didn't learn that in dance class.

"- I honestly don't think two wrongs will make a right but Until some other idea is brought up as to how to play catch up, then I really don't want to hear anyone'S crap,"

It has already been proposed. See the link in my sig. AA has nothing to do with leveling any playing fields. It never has been.

" .......You may not think your comments are racist but to people who benefit from AA or even begin to have a chance because of it, those comments even if not racist or plain ignorant! THERS ALWAYS EUROPE AND THE CARRIBEAN, THEY WERE MUCH NICER TO THEIR SLAVES. gOOD LUCK!"

There's always Africa too. I recommend the Congo.

 

[doctorperez]

Originally posted by earthwhisper

Earthwhisper...

you and your dance in healing certificate...


RULE! 😍

 

[thezero]

Man Ernham, you really don't like black people do you. I think you need a hug.

 

[FREE MCAT ?]

Ok everybody-

Let us hug ernham

[[[[[[[[ernham]]]]]]]

🙂

 

[klinzou]

What does your parents' voting rights at 18 have to do with anything??

And my "well-endowment from slavery"...

My parents total maybe 35k a year income. I went to public school with no Kaplan. Am I complaining about it??


Now that I think about it, the war with the British or the Spanish must be a reason I got that C in Org Chem. Funny how thing from over 50 years ago have that affect on me.

 

[earthwhisper]

doctorperez, thank you. To who everelse you are........The level of ignorance, I HAVE DECIDED IS TOO HIGH FOR ME TO DEAL WITH...SO I will just let you know FYI I am an African, born and raised for twelve years b/f residing permanently in the US So let me let you know that in Africa....

- There of course was and still in some places an arragement in society that includes slaves to use the term loosely BUT -
- The slaves do earn wages for their work
- The young females were never raped by their male masters for generations with their children hardly ever receiving benefits or claim from their biological fathers
- The are not whipped, they are spoken to in english and other languages of humans when given orders to carry out their work
- They nver were given a mandatory complimentary pass to cruise the Atlantic in ships laying naked to thousands of other humans going to the bathroom next to each other , I think you get the idea
- The slaves and their 'masters' drink out og the same water fountains, streams, or what have you

- - AND YES IT IS A BIG DEAL TO HAVE TO SPEND FIVEMORE DOLLARS THAN THE NEXT PERSON TO BUY PANTYHOSE, TO HAVE TO STAND ON THE STREETS AT NIGHT WAY LONGER THAN THE NEXT PERSON TO GET A CAB IF YOU ARE A BLACK IN SOME PLACES...YOU PROBABLY WILL NEVER GET IT BUT AT LEAST I CAN SAY I TRIED.

 

[Mangs]

the comments made about slaves and africa are completely out of line..your line of argument smacks of dangerous stupidity..now, are you saying that because these blacks who were enslaved in the Americas would have been enslaved anyways in Africa then no one should cry injustice? First of all, where is the documentation that the ENTIRE African population brought to the "New World" would have been slaves in Africa "anyways"? Secondly, as stated by an earlier poster...even if this argument was based on historical truth, slavery in Africa during the 18th and 19th Centuries was never as barbaric, as destructive of communities and individual spirit as the slavery of the Americas. The majority of slaves on the vast continent of Africa, as in many other countries are obtained through the pillages of war. THis is not to condone slavery in ANY form but, there is a difference between one person becoming a slave and their ENTIRE lineage including unborn children. Slavery in Africa was NOT meant to create a subservient population that was regarded as inhumane..

But, I go back to the crux of my issue with you..

WHY EVEN MAKE THIS POINT??? WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?
😡

Your comment only serve to further validate the title of this thread.

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by klinzou
What does your parents' voting rights at 18 have to do with anything??

You don't understand the power of being denied the right to vote?

You obviously now do understand the anger of people being forced to compete on what they perceive is less than a level playing field.

That is what the entire issue is about after all, trying to level the playing field through an artificial device.

 

[renebean319]

umm, i don't know how this thread was started.. but it needs to stop.. its stupid.. its not up to us.. its up to the supreme court... get over it... move on... oh and one more thing... i think ernham needs a hug... [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ernham]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] and a prayer... (and yes.. i too am African😀 😀 😀 )

BEE yourself!! Winnie the POOH

 

[skypilot]

Actually screw leveling the playing field.

We need more black doctors who are willing to work in Roxbury (Boston) and Harlem, DC, and South Central period.

The easiest way to get them is to make an effort to train them by considering race as one of the many criteria for admissions.

As I said before if everyone spent as much time studying as they did whining this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by renebean319
umm, i don't know how this thread was started.. but it needs to stop.. its stupid

I don't think its stupid it is good to discuss these things but I agree it is time to move on!

😛

 

[sacrament]

Originally posted by klinzou
Statistics is based on numerations, and the fact is. If 1/2 of both URM's and non's both get in, it doesn't matter. What matters is how many apply!!

I'm so astonished by this blatantly incorrect statement that I must assume I have incorrectly interpreted it.

edit: ...and maybe I am. I really can't make heads or tails of what you are trying to say.

 

[sacrament]

I now see where the confusion is... I thought you were disagreeing with the statement "Now obviously this doesn't say anything about the stats (how easy/hard) to get in." You should have acknowledged this statement, as it really is leading to your point as I understand it.

Those statistics don't say if the 50% of URMs who were accepted have a lower MCAT score (just as one example) than the 50% of non-URMs who were accepted. the fact that 50% of both groups get accepted does not say anything about the relatively difficulty faced by the two groups. Sorry for the confusion.

BTW, the "sample size" (in this case, the size of the application pool) does not invalidate the numbers in any way. Obviously a larger sample size provides for better reliability, but that's it. If you take the entire pool of applicants (assuming the overall acceptance rate is 50%) and randomly divide it up into, let's say, 100 smaller groups, the average acceptance rate of each group will still be around 50% (because each person you pick at random for a group will have had at, on average, a 50% chance of acceptance). If you looked at one of these smaller groups you wouldn't say "AH, this 50% is very significant because it comes from a smaller group!" The fact that fewer URMs apply does not make the 50% figure any more or less meaningful. What is important is the stats of those who were accepted.

 

[klinzou]

What is important is the stats of those who were accepted.

Yes, and those 50% of URMs admitted half significantly lower scores 😱

I'm not saying URMs are not smart. Many have very high grades and are in the top 5% of the applicant pool. I just don't like to see those from the bottom 20% of scores get in based on the color of their skin. Simple.

 

[sacrament]

Originally posted by klinzou
Yes, and those 50% of URMs admitted half significantly lower scores 😱

I'm not saying URMs are not smart. Many have very high grades and are in the top 5% of the applicant pool. I just don't like to see those from the bottom 20% of scores get in based on the color of their skin. Simple.

I agree with your sentiments, I just wanted to clarify what the position was.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg6b2002a.htm

Black Applicant: 6.7V, 7P, 7.2B
Black Accepted: 7.8V, 8.1P, 8.5B

White Applicant: 9.2V, 9.2S, 9.6B
White Accepted: 9.8V, 10.1S, 10.3S

Well, lub, you thoroughly convinced me. We're all racists and AA is wonderful. Here, have a 80 cent cookie.

 

[Ernham]

"the comments made about slaves and africa are completely out of line.."

No, they are completely germane.

"your line of argument smacks of dangerous stupidity.."

I tend to have that affect on ignorant types when I wipe the crap out of their eyes.

"now, are you saying that because these blacks who were enslaved in the Americas would have been enslaved anyways in Africa then no one should cry injustice?"

I'm saying that blacks that left africa as slaves were already slaves in africa. They were not living some grand life. Further, by coming to america their life expectancy increased dramatically. American slaves lived much longer lives than did the majority of sub Saharan africans.

"First of all, where is the documentation that the ENTIRE African population brought to the "New World" would have been slaves in Africa "anyways"?"

There might have been some instances where this was not the case; however, the vast majority were already slaves.

"Secondly, as stated by an earlier poster...even if this argument was based on historical truth, slavery in Africa during the 18th and 19th Centuries was never as barbaric,"

LOL. Yes, and both of you are quite ignorant on the issue. Neither of you know one lick about afircan slavery, slavery at all for that matter. And as I said, FREE BLACKS IN THE USA were notorious slave holders. All of the biggest planatations across lousiana were all black-owned. You won't find that in your PC history book.

" The majority of slaves on the vast continent of Africa, as in many other countries are obtained through the pillages of war. THis is not to condone slavery in ANY form but, there is a difference between one person becoming a slave and their ENTIRE lineage including unborn children. Slavery in Africa was NOT meant to create a subservient population that was regarded as inhumane.."

ROFLMAO. Ridiculous. War was the main driving force in african slavery. And yes, had you been taken as a slave in afriica, you'd live the rest of your life in slavery. Had you had any children, they would be either 1. be killed(food was limited) or 2. grow up as slaves. Slavery started in africa and it is still going on today.


"WHY EVEN MAKE THIS POINT??? WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?"

I'm saying that blacks have nothing to complain about. Coming to America was actually a huge windfall for them. Guess how many africans today wish their ancestors got brought over during colonial slavery era? The vast majority that know anything about america.

 

[fun8stuff]

Originally posted by TexasGuy41
I just want to point out that being vehemently anti-Affirmative Action does not in ANY way make someone racist. Nor does it make them pro-white, or a suppremicist, or a bigot. It just means they don't think AA is a just system.

I agree, some people on SDN are racist, or if they aren't - they make dumb jokes and come off sounding racist. But please don't think someone is racist just because they are mad that URMs have such an easy way into med school. It is a completely different issue.

I personally think AA in med school admissions is BS, and I think every person should earn their way in. But that has nothing to do with me being racist. I also think Legacy admissions are BS.

In defense of some people, many URMs on SDN are VERY VERY quick to drop the racist card once a discussion starts to heat up, and that tends to inflame everyones passions. Just my .02.

just in case those who are quick to call someone racist as a means to try and win an argument for lack of better resources, missed this post, please read it!

 

[thezero]

so from your last statement I am presuming that you would like the entire black race to thank you and of course your dad "THE MAN" for bambozling africans, centuries of slavery and oppression and lynching. Sorry homey, don't think that is possible, but I think I can provide a great big hug to maybe brighten your day. [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[Ernham]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

the point is that I am in medical school despite AA or whatever and learning alot and eventually I will become a physician. It might also turn out that one day you will have a child who might become very ill hurt or injured and you will take her to the ER and maybe just maybe, I'll be the attending on duty. And despite all of your ranting and ravings,(because you will also be a physician) about wanting another doctor, I will have to save his/her's life. Only then will you actually see the big picture. You would owever probably blame the success on Affirmative action, but hey I can't expect to much from some people I just have to keep doing what I do for a living, helping people. I just hope you feel the same way. How bout one more hug for the road [[[[[[[[[[[[[[Ernham]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]. Oh and by the way is that satan on your avatar, I can't really tell. Maybe you should get a cute puppy or something.

peace or in your case war

-0-