Why are some SDNers so racist?

[pathdr2b]

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Originally posted by thezero
so from your last statement I am presuming that you would Oh and by the way is that satan on your avatar, I can't really tell.

I think Satan fits very well

 

[fun8stuff]

Originally posted by klinzou
What does your parents' voting rights at 18 have to do with anything??

And my "well-endowment from slavery"...

My parents total maybe 35k a year income. I went to public school with no Kaplan. Am I complaining about it??


Now that I think about it, the war with the British or the Spanish must be a reason I got that C in Org Chem. Funny how thing from over 50 years ago have that affect on me.

hahaha yeah, i wish i had something to blaim all the misfortunes in my life on... too bad i'm not a minority... then i could blaim al lof my downfalls on it! that would make a lot of sense and solve all of my problems! *sarcastically spoken*

 

[fun8stuff]

Originally posted by skypilot
You don't understand the power of being denied the right to vote?

You obviously now do understand the anger of people being forced to compete on what they perceive is less than a level playing field.

That is what the entire issue is about after all, trying to level the playing field through an artificial device.

please be mindful and listen with intelligence to what i have to say:

If you were to smack your younger brother in the nose when you were 10 yrs old, would you have to say your sorry forever? Would you have to continuously apologize and continually bring up the fact that you punched him in the nose? Even 50 years after it happened?! LOL.... OF COURSE NOT!

I was taught to apologize and move on with life or accept the apology and move on. It's not about forgive and forget, it's about forgive and move on! This whole situation of racism will never be forgotten until the people crying "poor me, my 'great, great great... great' grandparents were victim to racism and couldnt vote' move on"

So you see, yes it was wrong for blacks and WOMAN to be denied the right to vote, but it was righted. You must move on.

Often times people forget that woman also did not always have the right to vote, but do you hear them complaining about how their Great, great;s couldn''t vote? NO! And you want to know what? Woman are making great strides because they have forgiven and moved on!!!

Now, since you have nothing else logical to say to me, let's call me a racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pillowhead]

Originally posted by earthwhisper
- THERS ALWAYS EUROPE AND THE CARRIBEAN, THEY WERE MUCH NICER TO THEIR SLAVES. gOOD LUCK!

If you've studied Caribbean or Latin American history at all, you'd know that slaves in the Caribbean had much lower life expectancies and much higher rates of infant mortality than their North American counterparts. I'm not trying to say that North American slaves had it "easy", rather it was the climate and diseases of the Caribbean decreased life expectancy. Even after the actual importation of slaves from Africa stopped, North American slave populations grew because of natural reproduction while in Caribbean colonies, the slave population dropped dramatically as reproduction was virtually impossible.

This has nothing to do with affirmative action, but I like to keep things historically accurate.

 

[TexasGuy41]

Ok,

All the URMs that are throwing around the race card need to settle down. Just cause I think AA is crap IT DOESN"T MEAN I DON"T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE. I think its crap that you guys get a better shot than me just for being black. It doesn't mean I"m evil whitey and I'm gonna go pick a fight with some black guy or treat them differently than I treat whites.

And second of all, WHY DO ALL YOU URMs think you need a leg up? If you are so smart and such, THEN GO OUT AND LEARN THE MATERIAL, DO WELL ON THE MCAT AND QUIT COMPLAINING. I do my MCAT studying at the public library. Last time I checked they let black people inside their doors.

You want to take Kaplan? Then go to their website and put that thing on your credit card. If you don't have a credit card then walk down the street to the local starbucks and get a job for a few weeks and then take Kaplan. But please God just STOP WHINING.

And Earthwhisperer,

Thanks for the history lesson. But I've read my Cornell West and Hank Gates. Your post was one of the dumbest/most incorrect/most poorly spelled things I"ve ever read. I got a few buddies who's grandparents were gassed to death....they are all in law/business/med school.

And finally, let me just say one thing that will probably get me called a KKK member or Nazi or whatever. I honestly think that people like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X would be absolutely DISGUSTED with black culture and the tremendous apathy that exists among blacks if they were alive to see it. I also think they would consider AA to be an institution of belittlement and find it down right offensive to blacks as a group.

Ok, I'm gonna run off to an evil whitey meeting to plot about keeping the black man down...whoops I mean I'm going to the library. Carry on.

 

[wolferman]

TexasGuy41,

Please try to limit the generalizations. Not all URMs share the views that so obviously disgust you.

 

[FREE MCAT ?]

Originally posted by fun8stuff
please be mindful and listen with intelligence to what i have to say:

If you were to smack your younger brother in the nose when you were 10 yrs old, would you have to say your sorry forever? Would you have to continuously apologize and continually bring up the fact that you punched him in the nose? Even 50 years after it happened?! LOL.... OF COURSE NOT!

I want to thank you for bringing up the younger brother analogy, while your analogy is an example of a badly applied one it lays the platform to explain to you how the analogy would go.

Please also be mindful and listen with intelligence:

If your older brother smacked you in the nose when you were 10 yrs. old and the trauma of such smack caused you to stay behind relative to other years old (educationally, etc) and the time came when you became an adult and you desired to become independent and create a future for yourself, HOWEVER, the smack impaired your breathing abilities to the point that you could not function properly in society...


WOULD IT NOT ONLY BE FAIR THAT...


Your older brother made sure you either:


A) Were made better and functional and retributed you all the years you had to endure his senseless act


or


B) That he gave you such an indemnization that would make your life more pleasant in view of your disability which was caused by your older brother, to begin with

???


Now I would surely forgive my brother, but my moving on is also my older's brother responsibility.

I would find it rather offensive if my older brother expected me to receive an apology or some hand down and expect me to move on...


Brother level the playing ground for me, have me fixed up or give me the tools to compete equally ---- make it fair, I did not ask for the impairing smack to begin with.


Until then stop whining every two blocks i try to move on. If the playing ground is not leveled HOW DARE YOU ASK ME TO COMPETE AS ANY OTHER NORMAL HUMAN BEING YOU INSENSITIVE BASTARD?



Ok off the analogy, now if you or Satan do not get it after this analogy you will need some Kaplan or something to do well in verbal reasoning.... 😀

 

[fun8stuff]

Originally posted by FREE MCAT ?
I want to thank you for bringing up the younger brother analogy, while your analogy is an example of a badly applied one it lays the platform to explain to you how the analogy would go.

Please also be mindful and listen with intelligence:

If your older brother smacked you in the nose when you were 10 yrs. old and the trauma of such smack caused you to stay behind relative to other years old (educationally, etc) and the time came when you became an adult and you desired to become independent and create a future for yourself, HOWEVER, the smack impaired your breathing abilities to the point that you could not function properly in society...


WOULD IT NOT ONLY BE FAIR THAT...


Your older brother made sure you either:


A) Were made better and functional and retributed you all the years you had to endure his senseless act


or


B) That he gave you such an indemnization that would make your life more pleasant in view of your disability which was caused by your older brother, to begin with

???


Now I would surely forgive my brother, but my moving on is also my older's brother responsibility.

I would find it rather offensive if my older brother expected me to receive an apology or some hand down and expect me to move on...


Brother level the playing ground for me, have me fixed up or give me the tools to compete equally ---- make it fair, I did not ask for the impairing smack to begin with.


Until then stop whining every two blocks i try to move on. If the playing ground is not leveled HOW DARE YOU ASK ME TO COMPETE AS ANY OTHER NORMAL HUMAN BEING YOU INSENSITIVE BASTARD?



Ok off the analogy, now if you or Satan do not get it after this analogy you will need some Kaplan or something to do well in verbal reasoning.... 😀

Oh my... you must have done horrible in English classes. You're grammer and spelling are horrible. I can barely understand what you are attempting to say, but i think I get the jist of it.

Now you went and changed the analogy significantly and in doing so your analogy no longer applies. For your analogy to apply to this situation you would have had to have been a slave at one time in your life.

You are not the one who was forced into slavery. You were not the one who was denied the right to vote. YOU WERE NOT THE ONE WHO WAS PUNCHED IN THE NOSE! lol... so you analogy is pointless and irrelevant to the situation. Please think about what you say before saying it, even if it takes you a little longer than most people.

 

[TexasGuy41]

Hey,

You didn't get smacked in the nose, your GREAT GREAT GRANDPARENTS did. And yes, it was horrible, it was sickening, it was inhumane...but it didn't happen to you! Your great great grandparents earned a few handouts, but not you my friend. Were you ever whipped? Were you ever beaten? Were you bought and sold? No, No, and No. My great grandparents had their mouths stained green because they had to eat grass since they were starving to death. And you know how much entitlement I feel....NONE! Claiming that society owes me because my grandparents were starving immigrants is a DISGRACE TO MY GRANDPARENTS. How dare I make claims for myself based on their horrible lives!

Go out and study and quit complaining. Go make your grandparents proud and stand up for yourself by getting good grades, doing well on the MCAT, and getting in because YOU EARNED IT. Send a big F YOU to evil whitey by NAILING THE MCAT, beating the evil whitey national avg, and demonstrating that you don't need the bar lowered.

 

[fun8stuff]

Originally posted by FREE MCAT ?
I want to thank you for bringing up the younger brother analogy, while your analogy is an example of a badly applied one it lays the platform to explain to you how the analogy would go.

Please also be mindful and listen with intelligence:

If your older brother smacked you in the nose when you were 10 yrs. old and the trauma of such smack caused you to stay behind relative to other years old (educationally, etc) and the time came when you became an adult and you desired to become independent and create a future for yourself, HOWEVER, the smack impaired your breathing abilities to the point that you could not function properly in society...


WOULD IT NOT ONLY BE FAIR THAT...


Your older brother made sure you either:


A) Were made better and functional and retributed you all the years you had to endure his senseless act


or


B) That he gave you such an indemnization that would make your life more pleasant in view of your disability which was caused by your older brother, to begin with

???


Now I would surely forgive my brother, but my moving on is also my older's brother responsibility.

I would find it rather offensive if my older brother expected me to receive an apology or some hand down and expect me to move on...


Brother level the playing ground for me, have me fixed up or give me the tools to compete equally ---- make it fair, I did not ask for the impairing smack to begin with.


Until then stop whining every two blocks i try to move on. If the playing ground is not leveled HOW DARE YOU ASK ME TO COMPETE AS ANY OTHER NORMAL HUMAN BEING YOU INSENSITIVE BASTARD?



Ok off the analogy, now if you or Satan do not get it after this analogy you will need some Kaplan or something to do well in verbal reasoning.... 😀

Oh my... you must have done horrible in English classes. You're grammer and spelling are horrible. I can barely understand what you are attempting to say, but i think I get the jist of it.

Now you went and changed the analogy significantly and in doing so your analogy no longer applies. For your analogy to apply to this situation you would have had to have been a slave at one time in your life.

You are not the one who was forced into slavery. You were not the one who was denied the right to vote. YOU WERE NOT THE ONE WHO WAS PUNCHED IN THE NOSE! lol... so you analogy is pointless and irrelevant to the situation. Please think about what you say before saying it, even if it takes you a little longer than most people.

"Now I would surely forgive my brother, but my moving on is also my older's brother responsibility."
--I truly feel bad for you if this is how you are going to go through life. Nobody owes you anything. It is not the oppressor's responsibility for you to move on with your life! The only person that can improve your life is YOU!

"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react". Have you ever read that quote? It's generally referred to as the attitude quote by Charles Swindoll. There is much more to it, I suggest you look it up on google and read it.

What you must understand is that you are in charge of you! Not the oppressor. You run you're own life and the sooner you realize this, the more successful and happy you will be in life.

Racism is still around, but not slavery. If you focus your whole life around the "Poor me, I deserve special treatment" philosphy, you will go no where! You must pick your head up high and move on, as was originally stated.

Good luck to you.

 

[FREE MCAT ?]

Originally posted by fun8stuff
Oh my... you must have done horrible in English classes. You're grammer and spelling are horrible. I can barely understand what you are attempting to say, but i think I get the jist of it.

Actually I did quite well in english (All A's), I also had a prominent MCAT essay score. I think you forget less than perfect proofreading is accepted on these boards, Oh My, much more accepted are spelling errors (do a search on that when you get a chance). However, your appeal to my written language errors do not negate the argument nor is what we came here for 🙂 [BTW it is not spelled grammer it is spelled Grammar] but anyway it is all good in the hood <---- Nutty professor's smile for you. 😉

Now you went and changed the analogy significantly and in doing so your analogy no longer applies. For your analogy to apply to this situation you would have had to have been a slave at one time in your life.

You are not the one who was forced into slavery. You were not the one who was denied the right to vote. YOU WERE NOT THE ONE WHO WAS PUNCHED IN THE NOSE! lol... so you analogy is pointless and irrelevant to the situation. Please think about what you say before saying it, even if it takes you a little longer than most people.

You are right I missed the offspring part, only I thought you could make an extrapolation, even if it took you longer than most people <----- Nutty Nutty smile again


But I will be generous with you and to anyone who may be so misled as to not see the whole analogy.

Here it Goes:


So your older brother goes on and gets married have kids and all. Being that he was not impaired, he managed to get all of your father's inheritance. Furthermore, he used your disability to make you work for nothing. So here you are being disabled, you try to move one, get married nonetheless and have your own kids. When Both your brother and you (disabled poor child) die, Your brother's kids receive both their dad's inheritance, plus your inheritance, plus the money your brother made off of you while not paying you a cent.

So here is the picture:


Kid A (son of normal sibling) owns his inheritance, plus his uncle's kids stolen's inheritance, plus the profit of his uncles unpaid wages.


Kid B (son of disabled sibling, mind you a disability he did not ask for) owns...Nothing


It should be plain to see who has a head start here.

Let us spike it up a notch...

Kid A, invest the funds mentioned earlier into building an educational institution. The only one in town. Kid A has kids and his kids get to study at such school.

Kid B, has nothing to invest and can not get a Job for, somehow, his father's disability continues to be a reason to keep him from getting a Job. Kid B has kids of his own, whom are rejected from the only school in town (remember who this school belongs to?) because they are kids of Kid B whose father had a disability he did not impose on himself.

So as the story goes, second generation kids differ both in education and finances. For goodness sake!, Do you see any equality, fairness, competitive justice between both kids? If you were to test both kids on first grade math, who would do better?

do the test results really reflect the potential of both test takers adequately?


would the results not, rather, reflect to a great extent the lack of or abundance of educational resources of each?

Come on!!

"Now I would surely forgive my brother, but my moving on is also my older's brother responsibility."
--


I truly feel bad for you if this is how you are going to go through life. Nobody owes you anything. It is not the oppressor's responsibility for you to move on with your life! The only person that can improve your life is YOU!

And then victims do not sue opressors in US courts asking for indemnization so they could move on with their life...ok you must live in the land of Oz.

"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react". Have you ever read that quote? It's generally referred to as the attitude quote by Charles Swindoll. There is much more to it, I suggest you look it up on google and read it.

Even if I agreed with it, if you impair my life 10%, you are morally responsible for returning to me, none less than, my losses.

What you must understand is that you are in charge of you! Not the oppressor. You run you're own life and the sooner you realize this, the more successful and happy you will be in life.

Talk about bad grammar, it is your not you're, but anyway I am beggining to sound like you...What I really wanted to say was, the previous philosophy does not level the playing field for the oppresed to compete. It is easy to shout those beliefs when you are at an unjustly earned advantage.

Racism is still around, but not slavery. If you focus your whole life around the "Poor me, I deserve special treatment" philosphy, you will go no where! You must pick your head up high and move on, as was originally stated.

Good luck to you.

The effects of racism and segregation still are, where do you live so that you can not see this? My focus is not poor me, My head is up, thirsting for social justice and not begging for it but demaning it!

🙂

Thank you.

 

[IndyZX]

medicine is there to serve the sick, its not there to serve you.

im ORM and i think SkyPilot's original post is the best one on this thread

 

[MichiMO]

Okay, for everyone criticizing AA and telling URM's to quit complaining, to hit the books, to take personal responsibility for their fate, and stop blaming other people for your failures....TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are not a URM, you know it might be more difficult for you to get into medical school...work harder, get better grades, better scores, more experiences. Don't sit there and whine.
Maybe you are being "oppressed" by the system, but you know what, everyone is opressed in some way in our current society.
White men are oppressed because they are not female nor African American
White women are oppressed because they are women and not African American
African American men are oppressed because they are black and not women
African American women are oppressed because they are women and black

I can go on with all the other groups, but you get my point. I hope and pray for the day when people will be judged as individuals, not as members of a group...but I think that is a long time down the road.
In the mean time, as a white woman, I support programs like AA because I recognize that, while I may have had it hard, African Americans, as a group, have definitly had it harder. Just check out the statistics of the socio-economic status of African Americans compared to whites. I firmly believe a low socio-economic status is incredibly difficult to overcome (especially when public schools are funded in large part by PROPERTY TAXES!!!!!!). Great if you do...but it is not so easy.
Besides leveling the playing field at bit, I agree with AA because our country needs more African American professionals because that is the only way you begin to change the socio-economic status of the group....this is why these programs exist: to raise Afican Americans out of a lower economic status.
Another final reason I agree with AA is because, honestly, I feel ashamed to be white because of what my race has done to others throughout history and continues to do. If a program like AA can even make up for a small part of what my race, as a group, has inflicted on other races then I am all for it.

So, to all the URM's out there: Kick butt in medical school. Show all these ignorant, bitter people how deserving you were. Then go back into your communities and make it easier for the next generation. Provide a role model and show them they can do and be anything.

 

[Mangs]

Can you please post some links, some citations, or some book titles that support your position on the "benefits" of American slavery?

FYI, as a historian, one often needs to cite multiple sources of work before you can argue that there is a CONSENSUS about a historical point. Otherwise, your position remains an outlying opinion, of which you are entitled to..But your argument does nothing to support any truth.

And before you go pronouncing what Africans in Africa WISH they would have experienced.. You need to ASK ..Where is your survey?

B/C as an African...your argument is RIDICULOUS.

Thank you again, for further illustrating WHY this country is struggling w/this issue. SHould Jews be grateful for the Holocost?
Should anyone BE GRATEFUL FOR PESECUTION?

I do not understand why this is up for debate. The ANSWER SHOULD BE NO.
PERIOD
IF you consider any other "issues" then there is something wrong with your moral compass.
😕

 

[LUBDUBB]

Originally posted by klinzou
Texas guy,

I believe this is where you can find your stats:


http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg52002a.htm


Just under 1/2 of URMS who applied get in, same for non-urms

Now obviously this doesn't say anything about the stats (how easy/hard) to get in.

~Lubdubb

Are you kidding? Did you get in?? The intelligence in your statement shows me that you can't possibly have gotten in to med school. The above fact is based on a percentage. Statistics is based on numerations, and the fact is. If 1/2 of both URM's and non's both get in, it doesn't matter. What matters is how many apply!! 20-30% maybe?? If 1/2 of the much smaller number that is applying get in, it clearly DOES say something about the stats

Klinzou, I was posting a webiste with data on how many urms applied and how many were accepted. I posted the webiste because texas guys asked:

Thats actually a good question - I haven't seen any URM only admissions data, but I sure would like to. Does anyone know the number of URMs that apply to med school each year, and the number that get accepted?

NOW, in my post I also pointed out that this website only shows #applied vs # accepted and NOT anything about stats (by stats i meant GPA/MCAT). I didn't say the data shows anything other than #applied vs. #accepted. I apologize if my previous post was not written clearly.

Rather than ask me what I meant by my post, you insulted my intelligence. Hope you develop some better people skills.

~Lubdubb

 

[LUBDUBB]

Originally posted by TexasGuy41
Thank you Klinzou!

1/2 of how many lubdub? You must have tested out of Stats.

TexasGuy, I was an engineering major, I've forgotten more about statistics than YOU know.


~lub

 

[mirla]

Part of the problem with our medical system is that we focus too much on individual success and not enough on the common good. (take a look at Canada's system vs ours in terms of health access for all)

I would say the same is true of this argument.

AA is hard for non-minorities to accept because some degree of selflessness is required - accepting the idea that someone who may have lower test scores or stats than you will get into a med school and "take your place" (an idea which is questionable)

but I believe a diverse body of physicians will best serve the needs of our diverse population. Let's be really honest here - how many white, upper middle class physicians will go and practice on reservations, or in other underserved areas? Yes, there are a few - praise them - but only a few. Most people don't want to move beyond the comfort zone set in their youth. Furthermore, how many of them will take the time to mentor or serve as role models for minorities facing significant psychological and tangible oppression? Not very many.

If this were a just, equal world AA wouldn't be needed. But it's not, and as a non-minority I am firm supporter of it.

 

[profunda]

You preallopaths have to realize a fact: most medical schools have very low URMs, particularly African Ams. Go visit any med school, and scan the lecture hall, and you will see it.

At some schools this is not true, but most that i know of this is visible. Most UCs have a black population of less than 10% in their med class, less than the representative population.

Therefore, my hypothesis is, being a URM might help you get in undergrad, but probably works against you for getting in med school.

Now, if you can speak a URM language, like Spanish, then that's a different story. You will probably up your chances. But being hispanic doesnt always help, since not all hispanics know Spanish, and white rich kids can hire a tutor at the age of 5 to teach them Spanish or could've learned Spanish from a personal maid.

You rich ORMs who didnt get into med school need to shut up and go study. It's certainly not because your color, but because you werent good enough (sometimes med admission is random. if you suffered from that randomness, then dont worry about improving yourself and just reapply).

Just trying to bring some insight/reality into this thread.

 

[vixenell]

First of all, all of these "slavery ended 138 years ago, get over it" posts fail to acknowledge that racism is alive and well even today. While you may not see blacks hanging from trees regularly as you might have a century ago, many young minorities are psychologically lynched on a daily basis in the classroom and in our communities. Racism did not end with the emancipation proclamation. Nor did it cease during the civil rights movement. Its not enough to tell URMs to "get over it;" our entire society needs to recieve the same message. It isn't enough to tell one group to shape up, but we all need to work together to create a society in which an institution like AA is unneccessary.

I don't view AA as a crutch by any means; I refuse to lower my own standards just because the race card might help. I don't feel a need to be retributed for any injustices committed against my ancestors. I don't necessarily feel that my personal past should be justification for my recieving preferential treatment. However, I believe that it is in the best interest of OUR PROSPERITY that all people should be given the opportunity in this generation to recieve a decent education. Not necessarily for our own sake, but for the sake of our children. If we have an opportunity to engineer the best possible society for the future, even if we must give more opportunities to those groups that have been historically oppressed, then I believe that it is for the best.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Originally posted by profunda
[BTherefore, my hypothesis is, being a URM might help you get in undergrad, but probably works against you for getting in med school. [/B]

Heh, good one.

 

[klinzou]

Profunda

You rich ORMs who didnt get into med school need to shut up and go study.

Unbelievable. You are truly blind!!! What about the Rich URMs that only got in b/c of AA and not b/c of their scores!!!

Who is to say that URM=poor ?????
You're only showing you're own ignorance...

What's that you say? A larger majority of URM's ARE poor????
Well guess what? A larger majority of ORM's have higher scores!
It works both ways. Think before you speak.

 

[profunda]

Hello idiot

I didnt say "rich" ORMs to be redundant. when i said rich ORMs, i meant RICH ORMs. They need to listen to their private tutors more attentively when poor URMs are busy busting their ass at taco bell to feed their parents and cannot study.

You are correct. A larger majority of URMs are poor, and a larger majority of ORMs have higher scores, and these two groups (poor URMs with lower scores and rich ORMs with high scores) are the people who are currently in med school. I completely agree with you and that. I was referring to the "rich" ORMs who have "lower" scores. shut the trap and hit a book.

dont ask me why, but all i know is i've noticed the majority of medical students are rich ORMs driving bmws to class. most of them have parents who are doctors. this thread is useless because...med admissions seem to favor ORMs, not URMs. go ask any med student and they'll probably tell you the same.

Originally posted by klinzou
Profunda



Unbelievable. You are truly blind!!! What about the Rich URMs that only got in b/c of AA and not b/c of their scores!!!

Who is to say that URM=poor ?????
You're only showing you're own ignorance...

What's that you say? A larger majority of URM's ARE poor????
Well guess what? A larger majority of ORM's have higher scores!
It works both ways. Think before you speak.

 

[klinzou]

Why are you telling me to hit a book? Do you think you are of a higher intelligence? Explain.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Yes, it's true! Medical schools actively discriminate against URMs! They are certainly not accepting URMs with significantly lower credentials over non-URMs. URMs have to work twice as hard and score twice as good as non-URMs to get into medical school.

 

[profunda]

Because I am the highest of all intelligence.

Ok. To be clear, I was not referring to you about hit the books. I am talking about 1) rich ORMs 2) who didnt get into med school (not because of randomness) and 3) are complaining. "They" need to hit the books.
And yes I am more intellgent than they are because I am in med school (on first try), and they're not. I dont know who you are so I dont know whether you or I are smarter. Maybe you are. Even?

Originally posted by klinzou
Why are you telling me to hit a book? Do you think you are of a higher intelligence? Explain.

 

[klinzou]

I guess we can say even.

 

[divinemsm]

If nothing else,SDN'ers on this forum are getting ample practice in their research paper writing skills.........keep it movin', .....can lead a horse to water...can't make him drink. Who gives a f*!k if some bitter people want to cry and complain 'cause they can't /have had/are having difficulty getting into school ? That's their issue.

 

[kito]

this needs to be moved...

 

[sacrament]

Originally posted by ankitovich
this needs to be moved...

Please, for the love of god, don't move it to Everyone.

 

[fun8stuff]

Originally posted by vixenell
First of all, all of these "slavery ended 138 years ago, get over it" posts fail to acknowledge that racism is alive and well even today. While you may not see blacks hanging from trees regularly as you might have a century ago, many young minorities are psychologically lynched on a daily basis in the classroom and in our communities. Racism did not end with the emancipation proclamation. Nor did it cease during the civil rights movement. Its not enough to tell URMs to "get over it;" our entire society needs to recieve the same message. It isn't enough to tell one group to shape up, but we all need to work together to create a society in which an institution like AA is unneccessary.

I only have one more thing to say, because it is pointless to argue about this anymore. We aren't going to change each other's minds. However, we must move on, even though there still is racism today. Sticks and stones will break our bones, but names will never hurt us. No progress will be made if we continue to dread on all the negativities of life. Life just isn't fair; everyone regardless of race has to come to terms with this.

In my opinion, AA only causes further separation between races; it continues to hold that there is a difference bettween races, and because of this it up holds that there is a difference between races. As long as AA is around, so will racism: AA causes a lot of (not all) non-URMs and URMs to be mad at eachother.

If AA was not based on race, and just on economics I think it would be much better. Oh well... not that what I'm typing is making any difference.... I will agree to disagree with the rest.... I just don't have time to keep up on arguing on this board, lol... addicting as this board is....


peace

Free MCAT, by the way, sorry for being so sarcastic... I was out of line...

 

[klinzou]

I used to live in Guam

 

[fonzy]

If we want absolute no discrmination in admission process, then everyone should be treated equally; that is true equal opportunity. Why introduce race factors!!!!It is also a matter of self respect....that is....'I did not get in because I was treated differently based upon whatever.......'

Let us all be just one race-human being. That way when we go to treat patients, we will not talk about who should be treated how and in what order.

A true non discrimination...a true equal opportunity...

 

[lotanna]

To think that we are going to have a lot of ignorant doctors out in society soon. This thread stinks, smells nasty. Full of freakin BS, I could use just about every curse word in all the languages I know😡 😡 😡 😡 But wont waste words on foolish mess

 

[Far]

Originally posted by lotanna
To think that we are going to have a lot of ignorant doctors out in society soon. This thread stinks, smells nasty. Full of freakin BS, I could use just about every curse word in all the languages I know😡 😡 😡 😡 But wont waste words on foolish mess

I totally agree.......Ignorance deters your life from ?gist?

 

[Ernham]

"Okay, for everyone criticizing AA and telling URM's to quit complaining, to hit the books, to take personal responsibility for their fate, and stop blaming other people for your failures....TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Pretty ASSuming, don't you think?

"If you are not a URM, you know it might be more difficult for you to get into medical school..."

Not to be overly semantic, but there really is no "might be."

"work harder, get better grades, better scores, more experiences. Don't sit there and whine."

Yes, in a country that prides itself on being a democracy with equal rights for all, my theory is that you should have to work twice as much and twice as hard to get equal reward. Perfectly logical.


"Maybe you are being "oppressed" by the system, but you know what, everyone is opressed in some way in our current society."

Oppress; verb: to keep down by unjust use of authority

Seems to me, then, that as far as authority goes, ie. the government, the only oppressed persons are white and asian, doubly so if you have the distinct misfortune of being born with a Y chromosome.

"I can go on with all the other groups, but you get my point. I hope and pray for the day when people will be judged as individuals, not as members of a group...but I think that is a long time down the road."

Last I checked, in the US, we were all Americans; same group.

"In the mean time, as a white woman, I support programs like AA because..."

Because white women have been the biggest beneficiaries? Because the AA cut usually doesn't hit the upper middle class whites(you) but the lower to lower middle class whites just trying to make ends meet prior to AA even rearing its ugly head?? Hmm. You are quite a humanitarian. Indeed. Perhaps you should drop your acceptance at medical school, and then the chain reaction will invariably to some degree increase in the percent of blacks in med school. Awwww, I suppose you don't want to do that? Quite the "fair weather" AA proponent you are.


"I recognize that, while I may have had it hard, "

ROFL. A white women, huh? With this in her bio?

"Born and raised for the most part in AZ, but have lived all over the country and world "

Yeah, you sound like you had it real tough.

"African Americans, as a group, have definitly had it harder. Just check out the statistics of the socio-economic status of African Americans compared to whites."

I have, and what I see is twice as many whites in poverty as blacks; hardly the scenario you depict.


"I firmly believe a low socio-economic status is incredibly difficult to overcome (especially when public schools are funded in large part by PROPERTY TAXES!!!!!!). Great if you do...but it is not so easy."

Haha. You are all for screwing over low class whites and than slip this little trite platitude out there?? You are simply unbelievable.

"Besides leveling the playing field at bit, I agree with AA because our country needs more African American professionals because that is the only way you begin to change the socio-economic status of the group"

"group?" Last I checked, we were all americans, although whites and asians are defacto second class citizens at the moment, they are all still americans.


"....this is why these programs exist: to raise Afican Americans out of a lower economic status."


The programs should be focused on class, not race. End of story. There is no way to defend such a position.

" I feel ashamed to be white because of what my race has done to others throughout history and continues to do."

Wow. Now here is a statement that is is a real shocker 🙄. Perhaps you'd care to share with me what "your race" has done and "continues to do"?

By the way, I must share your same admission: I, too, am ashamed YOU are white.


"If a program like AA can even make up for a small part of what my race, as a group, has inflicted on other races then I am all for it."

I really am truly interested in what you feel whites have done that no other group hasn't also done.

"So, to all the URM's out there: Kick butt in medical school. Show all these ignorant, bitter people how deserving you were. "

And what is your well wish for low class whites? Enjoy your career at K-mart or the rubber plant? And please don't hate me because I sold you out?

 

[Nogpas]

Amazing. Ernham, you have an amazing capacity to minimize the subtle benefits of being a white male. Talk about being a victim of your own existence. Based on your posts, I assume that you come from an impoverished family. That's rough, and no one is going to deny that. Your assumption that being male is a hindrace, though, is simply shameful. You do realize that women still make less than males in the same jobs with equal experience? That sounds pretty sweet to me 🙄

I can't believe that someone could be so unaware of history and current trends in race relations to think that it's an unfair advantage to be black or a woman, or, heaven forbid, both. I mean, that explains why black women are taking over the world so quickly!! They have ALL the benefits right? No wonder so many of our politicians at the national level are black AND women!! It's finally clear to me--they've had it easy their whole lives and just revel in keeping the white men down!! Wow.

Also, in reference to the number of whites in poverty vs. black--no kidding? There are about five times as many whites as there are, and only twice as many in poverty. Doesn't that trend seem alarming? That means a significantly larger percent of blacks are living in poverty. Another sweet deal.

I pity how hard you think your life has been being a member of the most priveledged groups in history--a white male in the US during the 20th and 21st centuries. I'm afraid to think of what you would have thought if you had come from a group that has actually been oppressed and suffered at the hands of the majority. Now, you may have suffered real and tangible miseries, and for that I am sorry. I think that your anger and jealousy are misplaced, however.

 

[Ernham]

"Amazing. Ernham, you have an amazing capacity to minimize the subtle benefits of being a white male."

Yes, I have a multitude of "amazing capacities;" I guess I'll add this one to my resume.


"Talk about being a victim of your own existence. Based on your posts, I assume that you come from an impoverished family."

Where I come from and who I am is really not of paramount importance.

"That's rough, and no one is going to deny that. Your assumption that being male is a hindrace, though, is simply shameful. You do realize that women still make less than males in the same jobs with equal experience? That sounds pretty sweet to me"

I recommend to you two books, both of which were written by feminists. "The war against boys" and "The myth of male power." All those lies you have just regurgitated, and probably a number of other fancy fallacies floating around in your little brain, are laid asunder within them.


"I can't believe that someone could be so unaware of history and current trends in race relations to think that it's an unfair advantage to be black or a woman, or, heaven forbid, both."

Ummm. I don't believe this even dignifies a response. Anyone that can digest some simple statistics would surely laugh you in the face if you claimed that such isn't the case.

"I mean, that explains why black women are taking over the world so quickly!! They have ALL the benefits right? No wonder so many of our politicians at the national level are black AND women!! It's finally clear to me--they've had it easy their whole lives and just revel in keeping the white men down!! Wow."

Well, logically, it would make sense that black women are advantaged in multiple ways.. I don't believe that black women are needed to keep white men down, however; white men and women do quite well enough on their own.

"Also, in reference to the number of whites in poverty vs. black--no kidding? There are about five times as many whites as there are, and only twice as many in poverty. Doesn't that trend seem alarming? That means a significantly larger percent of blacks are living in poverty. Another sweet deal."

Again. Percents are not important. If percents were so important, we should just toss all african americans in prisons because of their 700% greater likelihood of committing violent crime, or at least increasing their jail/prison sentences 700%.. Sound like a plan, brother? You still want to play the percentage game?

I don't care if there are 90% of african americans in poverty; I care that anyone is in poverty within a first world nation.

"I pity how hard you think your life has been being a member of the most privileged groups in history--a white male in the US during the 20th and 21st centuries."

I believe your assertion is false on many levels. In the american system there is only a certain percent of whites that are "advantaged,"with the rest fairing no better than anyone else.

"I'm afraid to think of what you would have thought if you had come from a group that has actually been oppressed and suffered at the hands of the majority."

I don't think it would change my point of view much.

"Now, you may have suffered real and tangible miseries, and for that I am sorry. I think that your anger and jealousy are misplaced, however."

That's nice. You are quite assumptive, you know? You don't know one lick about me.

 

[thezero]

Hey I see you got rid of the satan picture and exchanged it for something you probably got from the klan website. Well at least you won't be going to hell, at least not for being friends with satan, in public,...on sdn.

-0-

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

So is the general consensus among the AA advocates that as long as there is a "white privilege", there should be a "black privilege" through racial preferences in college admissions?

Also, please define and quantify white privilege. Do all whites contain the same amount of white privilege and therefore should be equally punished under AA? Or should some whites be more disadvantaged because of their white privilege than other whites? Do Asians have white privilege?

Thank you.

 

[Ernham]

Hey I see you got rid of the satan picture and exchanged it for something you probably got from the klan website. Well at least you won't be going to hell, at least not for being friends with satan, in public,...on sdn.

Hey! I see you are still posting non sequitur ad hominems whenever your ridiculously ignorant fallacies have been grapeshotted full of holes, third grade grammar and all.

 

[ac808]

I think it is ovbious why we need some form of AA. Could you imagine being a black applicant and facing Enham or Ryo as your interveiwer. You wouldn't get into the school even if you were a 45 4.0. The point is that the great majority of those with power in the US are white males. The system of AA is crude attempt at checks and balances on that power, but as witnessed by the many posts, it does nothing but create a backlash or discredit those that have earned the spot through merit.

 

[thezero]

I guess in all your windbagging you haven't noticed that I haven't seriuosly replied to any of your posts in about a week. Besides this is way more fun ha ha.

-0-

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Ac808, you're the one who wants favorable treatment for different applicants based on race. You're the one who wants to discriminate on the basis of race. Not me. Try to get that tiny, little simple fact.

 

[ac808]

Ryo,

Actually I do want favorable admissions based on race, but the basis is demand (community wise). I live in tx where a huge amount of rural underserved white communities are located. I want favorable admission standards for whites that grew up in these rural areas who will most likely go back to these areas to serve them. There are also many, many underserved Hispanic (majority) communities along the border. The demand for doctors is overwhelming in these communities. I want active recruiting of Mexican or Mexican American students from these areas. Does this make me racist? Doubt it. Can you spin it and say I want favorable admissions according to race? Yes, it is true that I do want favorable admissions based on race, but the basis for my favoring of those applicants is not based on DISCRIMINATION. See the difference?? Any questions?

 

[Ernham]

Well then, ac808, it sounds as though you should be against AA in its current form, in favor of a socioeconomic-based only form of AA.

Thezero......let's just say you are aptly named.

 

[thezero]

thank you

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Yes, because for every Hispanic applicant, you will assume purely based on his race that will serve a Hispanic district. For every white applicant, you will assume purely based on his race that he will not serve in a Hispanic district. You will automatically give "Hispanic district" points to the Hispanic applicant and no points to the white applicant no matter what the reality of the situation is.

If you were truly concerned about underserved areas, you would advocate a race neutral competition for serving in underserved areas. The reward could be tax breaks, tuition waivers, etc. And because you are drawing upon all races instead of just a few, this race inclusive competition would produce a higher quality applicant for underserved areas than under race exclusive Affirmative Action.
Not violating the 14th amendment and the 1964 Civil Rights Act is another *small* bonus to this race neutral system.

 

[ac808]

Ernham, I think a SE based AA would be more fair for all races.

Ryo, You are being naive. In tx there are loan forgiveness programs, sponsered by the state, which recruit graduates of all races to practice in underserved areas. I know that ALL hispanic applicants would not go to underserved hispanic areas. I think med schools must play the percentage game. I think it is a safer bet to assume that a hispanic student from an underserved area is more likely to return to the underserved area (esp. with the state sponsored programs) than another student that has no relation to the area. Is it better to admit 5 hispanic students with 2 or 3 returning to their underserved home areas or 5 white students that have a %0 chance of serving the hispanic community. If the community that is underserved is the prime focus of the med school, then the med school must play a percentage game (which isn't fair).

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

I'm not talking about the loan forgiveness programs we have today. Those programs have no bite. I'm talking a contract based system similar to the USUHS where if someone breaks his contract, severe consequences will follow (ie: court martial).


1. Will a contract based system yield a greater percentage of applicants than AA?
Yes, people tend to follow through on their promises when there are severe consequences for going back on their word.

2. Will a contract based system yield a better applicant population pool?
Yes, because the applicant pool will consist of ALL races instead just a FEW races.

3. Will a contract based system violate the 14th amendment of the US constitution and the 1964 civil right act?
No. This is probably the most important feature of this program.

The only disadvangatage is that there will be fewer long term providers (once a MD finishes his 5 year tour of duty, he'll probably move on to greener pastures). However, the pluses (bettter docs, better yield from initial applicants and most importantly not violating civil rights) far outwiegh the negatives.

Why do you continue to refuse to let other races compete with URMs for the rewards of going to an underserved area? Why do you place so little value on the rule of law and civil rights?

 

[trauma_junky]

You can call it racist to make yourself feel better, but it is BS that someone is admitted to med school based on different critera than everyone else. I have tons of friends that fall into the URM status that are rich as hell. It pisses me off so bad they are going to get in with a 2.8 gpa and a 24 on the MCAT. Let me tell you, that's the guy I want performing surgery on my kids. Then there is the opposite situation, I for instance, have been working 48-72 hour weeks as a paramedic to make it and support my family. I am doing a masters to suck the admission's #$%@ to get in. My parents never gave a rats ass about college, its amazing I have the drive I do according to the shrinks that justfy URMS. I will not get special treatment becasue I"M WHITE! WTF is that! So, if we seem a little chapped its not that we're racist, we just can't stand the reverse discrimination! I do see the logic and need for the URM catagory, but not in medicine. Not in a profession that impacts other peoples lives on so many levels. Me peronally, I would hate to think I was admitted out of pitty!