Why are there seperate podiatry schools?

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NotaCop said:
Because if there was only one podiatry school then it would actually be hard to get in
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No I mean, why did they make it a separate school vs going to an MD/DO school?
 
gonnif said:
I would have to disagree. While DPM are specialists of the foot, they must be able to understand the entire body and the medical conditions that will both affect the feet or showup in the feet. Their curriculum is essentially the same as any MD school, including clinical rotations, though less likely purely hospital based as office based. The PGY -1 year is often shared with Ortho residents and will be working on the same things under supervision. In the past few years the profession has moved to a minimum 3 year residency system. A typical podiatrist will see about 1/3 Diabetes related items in practice, 1/3 physical-sports medicine, and 1/3 foot specific. Many diseases that affect the extremities that are not caused by the feet still are seen and treated or referred via DPM. And they will supervising residents in wound care, lower ortho cases, and other items. They are simply specialists of the foot who have been specialized in school rather than PGY. In the past 30+ years I have seen DPMs, as well as DOs, from these seemingly secondary medical professionals to fully accepted, fully integrated team members as attending physicians in their area
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Most of what podiatrists do is not controversial. Turf battles still occur with ortho over some of the surgery though. Ortho has fellowships in foot and ankle which overlaps a great deal with what podiatry does and or wants to do. I have worked with some pods who are quite good and well integrated into the healthcare team. however I have also worked at some places where podiatry basically just ended up with the procedures and patients ortho didn't want, essentially a Dumping ground. I also know a few people who did med school after pod school and would dispute that "the curriculum is basically the same", and certainly got very little credit for what they had already covered. It's not. There are overlapping topic but you don't come out of there USMLE ready. They are definitely experts below the ankle, but not fully trained physicians who just chose to specialize in feet. For the latter you need to look to orthopedics.
 
No one is denying, including myself, that podiatrists are well-trained specialist of the foot or that they don't need to understand diseases like diabetes or sports injuries.

However my point was that they don't go to medical school because they are specializing and do not need a broad-based medical education. You could make the same point about psychiatrists or even ophthalmologist as we start to think about new ways to revise medical education.

I'm not even going to get into the argument that the curriculum is the same or the quality/fund of knowledge is the same. Let's just say I was not particularly impressed with the work ethic or skills of the podiatry residents that rotated with us on trauma and vascular.
 
The real question is who would actually choose to work solely with feet? *cues rimshot*
 
Law2Doc said:
Well if you want to be a surgeon but med school isn't going to happen for you it's not such a bad path.
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Exactly.

These guys are operating in the room next to me, have admission privileges etc. It's a good option for those who aren't medical school material.

Frankly I can think of a lot of things much grosser than feet.
 
Law2Doc said:
Well if you want to be a surgeon but med school isn't going to happen for you it's not such a bad path.
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well at that point, you're not choosing to work with feet more so than you're choosing to do surgery. By that thinking, that same person could be doing surgery on only index fingers (if there were such a thing) and be just fine. I'm referring to the people who go into it wanting to truly work with feet lol...although, I could be naive and the reality is that everyone who's a podiatrist just couldn't make med school work...
 
teeayejay said:
well at that point, you're not choosing to work with feet more so than you're choosing to do surgery. By that thinking, that same person could be doing surgery on only index fingers (if there were such a thing) and be just fine. I'm referring to the people who go into it wanting to truly work with feet lol...although, I could be naive and the reality is that everyone who's a podiatrist just couldn't make med school work...
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On SDN, we often feel that people have to have some deep, transcendent reason to go into the Great Profession Of Medicine (*angels sing*). But there are lots of people who go into various careers for lots of reasons aside from "calling". Someone who wants to be a podiatrist might go into it for income potential, the mix of working with people, leading teams, using tools and equipment and chances for advancement, etc. It might just have a combination of things they're looking for in a job.
 
teeayejay said:
...although, I could be naive and the reality is that everyone who's a podiatrist just couldn't make med school work...
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Based on the pods I know this was an avenue for them to be surgeons. But most surgeons end up sub specializing so I'm not sure I get your point. There are orthopods who will sub specialize in hands or a joint. Optho specializes in eyes. Neurosurgeons on the brain. ENT on face/neck stuff. Urologists and colorectal surgeons specialize too. I'm not getting your issue of wanting to "truly work with feet".
 
J Senpai said:
On SDN, we often feel that people have to have some deep, transcendent reason to go into the Great Profession Of Medicine (*angels sing*). But there are lots of people who go into various careers for lots of reasons aside from "calling". Someone who wants to be a podiatrist might go into it for income potential, the mix of working with people, leading teams, using tools and equipment and chances for advancement, etc. It might just have a combination of things they're looking for in a job.
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Yea, and I'm definitely agreeing with you there. I guess I speaking more so from my strong aversion to feet no matter the circumstance haha
 
teeayejay said:
Yea, and I'm definitely agreeing with you there. I guess I speaking more so from my strong aversion to feet no matter the circumstance haha
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Spoken like a future proctologist...

Medicine has many gross aspects. Feet are pretty minor.
 
Law2Doc said:
Based on the pods I know this was an avenue for them to be surgeons. But most surgeons end up sub specializing so I'm not sure I get your point. There are orthopods who will sub specialize in hands or a joint. Optho specializes in eyes. Neurosurgeons on the brain. ENT on face/neck stuff. Urologists and colorectal surgeons specialize too. I'm not getting your issue of wanting to "truly work with feet".
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Lol this wasn't meant to poke the bear, I promise. I know that surgeons can specialize in a plethora of different parts of the body...Feet are just gross.
 
teeayejay said:
Lol this wasn't meant to poke the bear, I promise. I know that surgeons can specialize in a plethora of different parts of the body...Feet are just gross.
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I have nice feet.

ImageUploadedBySDN Mobile1444959552.623644.jpg
 
I've always found it a bit random that they have their own separate school. Figured it was just a history thing. Maybe they are actually ahead of the game and more specialties should head that way. I won't pretend to know.

I think it's a good field though from anecdotal experiences. Mix of surgery and office care, opportunity to run your own business. I know a guy at the end of his career and he's made a killing. Good lifestyle. Would think it'd be a good option for people who aren't med school academically. Which I truly don't mean as a back handed type thing. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
 
Law2Doc said:
Spoken like a future proctologist...

Medicine has many gross aspects. Feet are pretty minor.
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I should take you to the psych ward and show you some of the feet of the guys we're taking off the streets weekly at the last urban VA I worked at that would outgross just about anything else in medicine. We call Pods up and they give us service with a smile. For that reason alone I will NEVER say a bad word about Podiatry.

When you ask a guy when's the last time he took his shoes and socks off and he can't give you an approximate answer more recently than "weeks" combined with the fact that his A1c is probably hanging out around 12.... yeah, it's bad. All the charcoal on earth can't keep the smell from completely filling a 30 bed unit.
 
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lalex said:
No I mean, why did they make it a separate school vs going to an MD/DO school?
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Because you would learn more information than necessary for your occupation.
 
gonnif said:
It is the history of how all the branches (MD, DO, DPM) developed from separate traditions and then essentially shaped from the Flexnor report towards similar institutions in the earlier 1900s. Podiatry came out of an earlier tradition of Chiropody, an external foot specialty practice that was the very rough analogous to dental hygienist. In the same way that many MD "schools" closed during this period and the remaining schools become more academic and professional, Chiropody schools did the same becoming a medical discipline eventually becoming podiatry. Osteopathy moved in the same direction. Each group developing organizational infrastructure (professional and academic societies), political infrastructure (separate state medical boards) and physical infrastructure (separate hospital systems). The last part started to break down in 1970s/1980s has the political power of the boards and professional societies, helped in getting hospital privileges for DPM and DO in allopathic institutions. Ironically it was this political power that prevented an effort started in the late 1990s to create Physician 2015, where MD, DO, and DPM would be under one systems of professional societies, medical boards, and accrediting organizations. DPMs pulled out early but the effort did result in the combining of residency programs in MD and DO and it is likely DPM will ultimately join that effort
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did anyone think that this info needs to be in wikipedia? I could hardly decipher whether gonnif was quoting a historical piece from that site or was going by memory; very insightful and yes wiki is a goto for me lol as is true for many.
 
Petrichor1 said:
did anyone think that this info needs to be in wikipedia? I could hardly decipher whether gonnif was quoting a historical piece from that site or was going by memory; very insightful and yes wiki is a goto for me lol as is true for many.
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Wiki and google are the primary resources for information these days.

Whether that's good or bad is up for debate.
 
teeayejay said:
Lol this wasn't meant to poke the bear, I promise. I know that surgeons can specialize in a plethora of different parts of the body...Feet are just gross.
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I'll take feet over a certain few other body parts. Just wear gloves. Just wait until your first patient with BV or C. diff. You'll wish you didn't have a nose.
 
Spinach Dip said:
Wiki and google are the primary resources for information these days.

Whether that's good or bad is up for debate.
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True, but they usually start as primary sites rather than ultimate sources for thorough understanding. Atleast, that's how I use it.
 
Ismet said:
I'll take feet over a certain few other body parts. Just wear gloves. Just wait until your first patient with BV or C. diff. You'll wish you didn't have a nose.
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Too late, I've smelled it all from diabetic feet to C.diff as a scribe lol
 
Law2Doc said:
Spoken like a future proctologist...

Medicine has many gross aspects. Feet are pretty minor.
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I dunno man, I've seen some downright horrifying feet. And it's like, all day every day. That consistency is the real problem. I might have to smell some C. diff or a bad UTI every now and again, but podiatry is ulcers and overgrown toenails and such with an unbearable frequency.
 
Spinach Dip said:
Wiki and google are the primary resources for information these days.

Whether that's good or bad is up for debate.
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Well they are certainly what people look to for quick answers, but you could (and should) never cite to them in anything you write/publish as a professional. That makes them by definition not "primary resources". And that's not up for debate either.
 
Mad Jack said:
I dunno man, I've seen some downright horrifying feet. And it's like, all day every day. That consistency is the real problem. I might have to smell some C. diff or a bad UTI every now and again, but podiatry is ulcers and overgrown toenails and such with an unbearable frequency.
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If you've seen the things I've seen... The horror, the horror...
 
Law2Doc said:
If you've seen the things I've seen... The horror, the horror...
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Coding a GI bleed in the CT scanner was probably one of the worst things I've ever dealt with. There's something special about that smell that just doesn't leave you, and it really doesn't help when the patient voids immediately prior to coding...
 
Mad Jack said:
Coding a GI bleed in the CT scanner was probably one of the worst things I've ever dealt with. There's something special about that smell that just doesn't leave you, and it really doesn't help when the patient voids immediately prior to coding...
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To continue the Apocalypse Now analogy "I love the smell of melena in the morning..."
 
Mad Jack said:
Coding a GI bleed in the CT scanner was probably one of the worst things I've ever dealt with. There's something special about that smell that just doesn't leave you, and it really doesn't help when the patient voids immediately prior to coding...
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God I hate the smell of melena.
 
Ismet said:
One of my attendings on medicine demonstrated that melena has a smell by taking a big whiff of a patient's stool sample and then offering it to us to smell. Nope nope nope nope nope.
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I don't know why you'd have to resort to smelling a stool sample: every MICU I've been in you can smell it wafting in the air.
 
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